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ELP 5.1 remixes by Steven Wilson.

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Topic: ELP 5.1 remixes by Steven Wilson.
Posted By: Capt Fongsby
Subject: ELP 5.1 remixes by Steven Wilson.
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 16:29
http://www.razorandtie.com/news/legendary-prog-rockers-emerson-lake-palmer-razor-tie-announce-exclusive-new-catalog-partnership" rel="nofollow - ELP's new record company Razor & Tie will be re-releasing the back-catalogue later this year.

The first two albums (s/t and Tarkus) have been remixed in 5.1 by Steven Wilson.

I guess some of you may be aware of this already -- it's been "known" for a few weeks now, since http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=277587" rel="nofollow - Steven Wilson hinted about it on another forum (see post #25 in linked thread).

http://www.dgmlive.com/diaries.htm?artist=&show=&member=3&entry=21289" rel="nofollow - Fripp has also mentioned it in his diary:
Steven is the Numero Uno in-demand go-to Sonic Re-Vibrator of albums from the so-called Progressive Period. One of Stevenís recent jobs has been remixing the first two ELP albums. After several visits that fell through, Greg arrived to check-out the re-mixes. Steven was surprised to learn how much of my guitar playing I had learnt from Greg himself.


Not really interested in 5.1 myself (and I already have the best sounding cd masterings of classic ELP), but I thought some of you guys might like a heads-up.



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Replies:
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 17:11
I am so glad I didn't bother with the last round of remasters.  Doesn't mean I'll jump on the train for those editions as I am pretty much broke.

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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 18:29
Originally posted by Capt Fongsby

http://www.razorandtie.com/news/legendary-prog-rockers-emerson-lake-palmer-razor-tie-announce-exclusive-new-catalog-partnership" rel="nofollow - ELP's new record company Razor & Tie will be re-releasing the back-catalogue later this year.

The first two albums (s/t and Tarkus) have been remixed in 5.1 by Steven Wilson.

I guess some of you may be aware of this already -- it's been "known" for a few weeks now, since http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=277587" rel="nofollow - Steven Wilson hinted about it on another forum (see post #25 in linked thread).

http://www.dgmlive.com/diaries.htm?artist=&show=&member=3&entry=21289" rel="nofollow - Fripp has also mentioned it in his diary:
Steven is the Numero Uno in-demand go-to Sonic Re-Vibrator of albums from the so-called Progressive Period. One of Stevenís recent jobs has been remixing the first two ELP albums. After several visits that fell through, Greg arrived to check-out the re-mixes. Steven was surprised to learn how much of my guitar playing I had learnt from Greg himself.


Not really interested in 5.1 myself (and I already have the best sounding cd masterings of classic ELP), but I thought some of you guys might like a heads-up.

 
Was there a  touch of irony in that comment Bob?
 
anyway looks like I will be shelling out more money on ELP, the great big mug that I amEmbarrassed


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 18:35
If Steven Wilson's got his fingerprints on it, I'll be sure to pick up Tarkus.  I still haven't gotten it on CD - love the sound of my vinyl copy - but he did such a great job with Aqualung, I don't think I can resist this one.

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My other avatar is a Porsche / http://raregoat.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - RARE GOAT bandcamp page

NEVER forget: the ant can carry eight times its own weight.
Or is it nine?

- Kehlog Albran


Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 18:38
Originally posted by Capt Fongsby

http://www.razorandtie.com/news/legendary-prog-rockers-emerson-lake-palmer-razor-tie-announce-exclusive-new-catalog-partnership" rel="nofollow - ELP's new record company Razor & Tie will be re-releasing the back-catalogue later this year.

The first two albums (s/t and Tarkus) have been remixed in 5.1 by Steven Wilson.

I guess some of you may be aware of this already -- it's been "known" for a few weeks now, since http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=277587" rel="nofollow - Steven Wilson hinted about it on another forum (see post #25 in linked thread).

Not really interested in 5.1 myself (and I already have the best sounding cd masterings of classic ELP), but I thought some of you guys might like a heads-up.


Hi Capt Fongsby, Smile

Thanks for this wonderful news!  I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A very important thing that is overlooked in a project like this is not the 5.1 mix(which I find to be a  game changer) is that in fact most CD releases were never taken from a low gen master when they were made. For the 5.1 mixes, the actual multi-track tape is used, but not before it is digitally ripped and then meticulously cleaned track by track.  Then being remixed to 5.1 or an additional 2.0 mix.  The result is far superior to any existing 2.0 mix, for sure. And the new 2.0 mix is far better then any existing CD release.

I have the Brain Salad Surgery DVD-Audio 5.1 and it is impossible to describe.  It is like being in the control room with ELP & Eddie Offord on the faders.

Thanks again Capt Fongsby for this great news!   LOL Big smile Tongue Smile 

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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 18:43
Originally posted by Capt Fongsby



I guess some of you may be aware of this already -- it's been "known" for a few weeks now, since http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=277587" rel="nofollow - Steven Wilson hinted about it on another forum (see post #25 in linked thread).




By the way it looks like the records are:

"Tarkus" and "Pictures at an Exhibition"


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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 19:50
Great news!! Weird though as I always got the impression that Wilson wasn't a big fan of ELP.

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A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 19:57
Awwww he was on a roll too. 

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Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 22:39
Great! My Tarkus is damaged and I still have to get the debut on CD. I might get BSS too because Shout Factory! didn't really do a good job (my opinion) on remastering that one.


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Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: March 16 2012 at 22:41
Hopefully he does Brain Salad soon. I have the awful Shout! Factory version...

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Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 03:38
There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
As someone suggested ,Wilson was never an ELP fan although its probably a myth that he was ever a prog fan. He does like Pink Floyd but I think the symphonic thing was never his cup of team. I can't imagine anything stranger than him being the preferred choice to remaster PAAE. Shows just how highly respected he is now and justifiably so imo.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 04:34
Originally posted by richardh

There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
As someone suggested ,Wilson was never an ELP fan although its probably a myth that he was ever a prog fan. He does like Pink Floyd but I think the symphonic thing was never his cup of team. I can't imagine anything stranger than him being the preferred choice to remaster PAAE. Shows just how highly respected he is now and justifiably so imo.

Whaaa???


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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 06:44
Originally posted by richardh

There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
As someone suggested ,Wilson was never an ELP fan although its probably a myth that he was ever a prog fan. He does like Pink Floyd but I think the symphonic thing was never his cup of team. I can't imagine anything stranger than him being the preferred choice to remaster PAAE. Shows just how highly respected he is now and justifiably so imo.
 


[TUBE]h2InJpqo_bw[/TUBE] 

Seems a bit to much into it for a non-fan. Ermm


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Bigger on the inside.


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 09:17
Originally posted by Kotro

Originally posted by richardh

There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
As someone suggested ,Wilson was never an ELP fan although its probably a myth that he was ever a prog fan. He does like Pink Floyd but I think the symphonic thing was never his cup of team. I can't imagine anything stranger than him being the preferred choice to remaster PAAE. Shows just how highly respected he is now and justifiably so imo.
 


[TUBE]h2InJpqo_bw[/TUBE] 

Seems a bit to much into it for a non-fan. Ermm
Yeah that was impressive. I'd say Steven is a huge Prog fan or he just knows everything.LOL

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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 10:42

^ Cool (He always seem to downplay any great love of the genre in interviews I've heard when he's talked about his influences.) I guess he knows more about the genre than I know about SW.Tongue



Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 11:07
I think Steven Wilson, as a professional musician, doesn't want to come across as a fan-boy.

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 12:07
I'll probably skip these. (Unless there is a boatload of good bonus material)

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: tarkusnj
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 13:54
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.


Posted By: tarkusnj
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 13:58
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Not really interested in 5.1 myself (and I already have the best sounding cd masterings of classic ELP), but I thought some of you guys might like a heads-up.

[/QUOTE]

Anyone who thinks any ELP remasters sound better than the original releases of the albums on cd's in the 80's are spliting hairs here-the LP's always sounded better. As far as any ELP remasters are concerned, the ONLY releases that have a noticeable sound quality improvement were the MFSL cd's or MFSL LP releases. I guess this is the wrong forum for anyone who knows sound quality.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 14:31
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast

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Posted By: Capt Fongsby
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 15:01
Originally posted by tarkusnj

This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.

Originally posted by tarkusnj

I guess this is the wrong forum for anyone who knows sound quality.


Wow, you're really off to a good start; Insulting one member specifically and the forum in general in only two posts... Can't wait to see how you're going to top that.




(Somewhat) back on topic:

As for cd sound quality, in my opinion the earliest cd masterings are almost always the best. And this most certainly applies to ELP.

S/T, Tarkus, Trilogy
:  The first West German Sonopress cds  from the 80s, referred to as the "Yellow Manticore" pressings (and now rare as hen's teeth), are clearly superior to other masterings. And they are excellent sounding. (The MFSLs of Tarkus and Trilogy are also great, and I'd rank them on 2nd place.)

Brain Salad Surgery:  The original Atlantic cd mastering, done by Barry Diament in the 80s, sounds great.

Pictures at an Exhibition
:  Haven't heard any great mastering of this one, but the original Atlantic is not too shabby. Just a bit muffled sounding, probably due to bad tapes being used.

The newer masterings (Victory/Sanctuary, Japanese K2 and K2HD, etc) are generally suffering from overt brightness, noise reduction and/or dynamic compression, and are not to my taste. YMMV, of course.

(And I'm not splitting hairs.)



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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 17 2012 at 15:18
Not having heard the remaster I suspect pictures is best appreciated in its original gory glory.

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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 18 2012 at 03:45
Originally posted by Slartibartfast

Not having heard the remaster I suspect pictures is best appreciated in its original gory glory.
Ever since I got the DVD of them playing at the Lyceum (well it VHS to start with) I've always preferred that version to the Newcastle City Hall version. The album is just too 'clean' sounding for my taste although the performances are spot on. No amount or remastering will make it any better to my ears.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 18 2012 at 03:54
Originally posted by tarkusnj

< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland.
I do however like the recent deluxe edition of Welcome Back My Friends which includes nearly all of BSS played live. There is a also a 'straight from boards' live version of KE9 on the bonus disc of The Ultimate Collection whicn blows all the other versions I've heard clean out the water.
Admittedly it is all a matter of taste and opinion. My equipment is average at best not high spec at all and my hearing is probably the same! 'Poor judgement' I don't know but I guess I like the rawer live sound rather than (to my ears) something that can end up being a little bit anti-septic.What was done to BSS in digital format has been depressing. The best I ever heard it was a German manufactured cassette that I bought in the seventies and played back on my Dad's Bang and Olofsen Hi-FILOL


Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: March 18 2012 at 09:15
^ Bang and Olafsen is an expensive toy, sounding no better than any $100-$200 minisystem.
No wonder why German manufactured cassette was the best you've heard. LOL


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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 18 2012 at 15:25
Originally posted by NotAProghead

^ Bang and Olafsen is an expensive toy, sounding no better than any $100-$200 minisystem.
No wonder why German manufactured cassette was the best you've heard. LOL
 
I don't know about that. 40 years ago with a pair of headphones it sounded pretty good. Will admit I'm no expert though.


Posted By: tarkusnj
Date Posted: March 18 2012 at 18:49
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Originally posted by richardh

[QUOTE=tarkusnj]< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland.
I do however like the recent deluxe edition of Welcome Back My Friends which includes nearly all of BSS played live. There is a also a 'straight from boards' live version of KE9 on the bonus disc of The Ultimate Collection whicn blows all the other versions I've heard clean out the water.

The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close.


Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: March 18 2012 at 19:28
Originally posted by tarkusnj

I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland. 
...................................................
The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close.
Is it a big problem to switch the sound to stereo and stop hating this DVD-Audio? Confused


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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)


Posted By: tarkusnj
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 05:40
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">. 
The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close.
[/QUOTE]
Is it a big problem to switch the sound to stereo and stop hating this DVD-Audio? Confused
[/QUOTE]

I accidently quoted "richardh's post regarding hating the DVD-Audio version of BSS as I LOVE the DVD-A version of BSS.
As far as the downmix of BSS DVD-A to stereo, I ripped the 6 individual 96/24 wavs myself and mixed them to stereo then burned them to cd. The sound quality FAR surpasses and previous official stereo "remaster".


Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 08:00
Originally posted by tarkusnj

< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">. 
The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close.
Is it a big problem to switch the sound to stereo and stop hating this DVD-Audio? Confused
[/QUOTE]

I accidently quoted "richardh's post regarding hating the DVD-Audio version of BSS as I LOVE the DVD-A version of BSS.
As far as the downmix of BSS DVD-A to stereo, I ripped the 6 individual 96/24 wavs myself and mixed them to stereo then burned them to cd. The sound quality FAR surpasses and previous official stereo "remaster".
[/QUOTE]

I made myself a rip of the vinyl. Sure its a little crackly, but its better than the Shout! Factory version. Whatever happened to Karn Evil 9 on that one?


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Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...


Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 08:40
Originally posted by NotAProghead

^ Bang and Olafsen is an expensive toy, sounding no better than any $100-$200 minisystem.
No wonder why German manufactured cassette was the best you've heard. LOL
 
IMO, you won't find better speakers than B&O's BeoLab 5 (seriously!) - and probably not more expensive either LOL


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Love is the answer. Or enjoy very cold straight or with sugar.


Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 09:35
Originally posted by tarkusnj

< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
 
Hi tarkusnj, Smile
 
When the original poster slammed the Brain Salad Surgery DVD-Audio, I bit my lip so hard, drawing blood, not to say anything, as, arguing an opinion would be fruitless.  However, the BSS DVD-Audio is in fact breath-taking, so I spent the weekend searching for a review I read many years ago about the actual process that gave us BSS on DVD-Audio.  Sadly I guess the tech review was so old I couldn't find it. So with regret all I have is an opinion to offer.  Which is, I would have no clue as to why the original poster was so negative.  BSS on DVD-Audio is perhaps one of the finest high resolution 5.1 remixing projects ever done.  I do have the DVD-Audio BSS dics and a decent 5.1 system, and all I can do is rant like a lunatic, singing its praises.  The article went into great detail on how each original track of the multi-track was meticulously converted to digital on A/D converters costing hundreds of thousands.  This work was a technical masterpiece as well as a labor of love by the re-mixing engineer.  I sure wish I could find that damn review. It explains all clearly & in great detail.
 
Suffice to say, I will keep and cherish and more importantly, PLAY, the BSS DVD-Audio until the day I die.
I hope the new re-mix of Tarkus comes out half as good.
 
Cheers!
 
DM
 
 
 
 


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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 09:44
Originally posted by Slartibartfast

< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast
 
 
To the group:
 
There has been much heated debate as to the BSS DVD-Audio recently.  I do think my esteemed colleague
Slartibartfast has set the record straight with the above post.LOL
 
Hey slarti-baby,Tongue
 
Did you forget where the "delete post" button is?Wink


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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: tarkusnj
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 10:44
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
 
Hi tarkusnj, Smile
 
When the original poster slammed the Brain Salad Surgery DVD-Audio, I bit my lip so hard, drawing blood, not to say anything, as, arguing an opinion would be fruitless.  However, the BSS DVD-Audio is in fact breath-taking, so I spent the weekend searching for a review I read many years ago about the actual process that gave us BSS on DVD-Audio.  Sadly I guess the tech review was so old I couldn't find it. So with regret all I have is an opinion to offer.  Which is, I would have no clue as to why the original poster was so negative.  BSS on DVD-Audio is perhaps one of the finest high resolution 5.1 remixing projects ever done.  I do have the DVD-Audio BSS dics and a decent 5.1 system, and all I can do is rant like a lunatic, singing its praises.  The article went into great detail on how each original track of the multi-track was meticulously converted to digital on A/D converters costing hundreds of thousands.  This work was a technical masterpiece as well as a labor of love by the re-mixing engineer.  I sure wish I could find that damn review. It explains all clearly & in great detail.
 

 
Cheers!
 
DM
 
 
 
Like I said, no comparison between the HI-REZ BSS DVD-A and ANY remaster of the album. Now if anyone would like to hear the downmix to stereo from the 96/24 6-channel wavs to compare to anything they currently have in stereo, let me know if you would like a sample in 44/16 cd format. Then tou will see with your ears.


Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 11:21
Originally posted by tarkusnj

< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
 
Hi tarkusnj, Smile
 
When the original poster slammed the Brain Salad Surgery DVD-Audio, I bit my lip so hard, drawing blood, not to say anything, as, arguing an opinion would be fruitless.  However, the BSS DVD-Audio is in fact breath-taking, so I spent the weekend searching for a review I read many years ago about the actual process that gave us BSS on DVD-Audio.  Sadly I guess the tech review was so old I couldn't find it. So with regret all I have is an opinion to offer.  Which is, I would have no clue as to why the original poster was so negative.  BSS on DVD-Audio is perhaps one of the finest high resolution 5.1 remixing projects ever done.  I do have the DVD-Audio BSS dics and a decent 5.1 system, and all I can do is rant like a lunatic, singing its praises.  The article went into great detail on how each original track of the multi-track was meticulously converted to digital on A/D converters costing hundreds of thousands.  This work was a technical masterpiece as well as a labor of love by the re-mixing engineer.  I sure wish I could find that damn review. It explains all clearly & in great detail.
   
DM
 
  
Like I said, no comparison between the HI-REZ BSS DVD-A and ANY remaster of the album. Now if anyone would like to hear the downmix to stereo from the 96/24 6-channel wavs to compare to anything they currently have in stereo, let me know if you would like a sample in 44/16 cd format. Then tou will see with your ears.
 
The one thing we learned from your original comment is that some people don't really care about high fidelity.  A preference was stated for "Welcome Back" sound quality over the original BSS album.  Noboday can argue "listening experience" as everybody's ears are different, but certainly there is no argument over the sound quality and fidelity of the DVD-Audio 5.1 project vs album or prior CD release.  When the poster(who you kinda slammed - that's ok, you are from New Jersey.Wink) expressed his preference for the live Welcome Back, it was clear that high-fidelity is not important to him.  That brings up my point here:
 
Though most music listeners enjoy hi-fi sound and will try to upgrade when possible, some people judge the sound quality based on a whole different criteria, I can't criticise them, as it is their preference, but I can not explain it as it defies logic and what we know of sound.
 
It is generous of you to offer the 5.1 DVD-Audio 2.0 down mix for people to compare.  I can't imagine why any ELP fan would not want the BSS 5.1 DVD-Audio experience. It is a game changer.
 
P.S.  I did time in New Jersey, North of Edison, just under the NY State Line.  I sure miss those Deli sandwiches. Cry


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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: tarkusnj
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 13:52
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
 
The one thing we learned from your original comment is that some people don't really care about high fidelity. 

Yup, this is a "progressive"  forum. Let's all break out the ipods!


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 16:49
Originally posted by tarkusnj

< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Originally posted by richardh

[QUOTE=tarkusnj]< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland.
I do however like the recent deluxe edition of Welcome Back My Friends which includes nearly all of BSS played live. There is a also a 'straight from boards' live version of KE9 on the bonus disc of The Ultimate Collection whicn blows all the other versions I've heard clean out the water.

The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close.
Why on earth do you imagine that I havn't heard it?
 
As I said its just an opinion. The DVD audio version is a watered down version of the original album. Nice version of Jersulalem because the vocals are less distorted but thats all I like about it.
 
Do you understand the concept of opinion/taste etc?


Posted By: tarkusnj
Date Posted: March 19 2012 at 17:33
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Originally posted by richardh

Originally posted by tarkusnj

< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Originally posted by richardh

[QUOTE=tarkusnj]< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland.
I do however like the recent deluxe edition of Welcome Back My Friends which includes nearly all of BSS played live. There is a also a 'straight from boards' live version of KE9 on the bonus disc of The Ultimate Collection whicn blows all the other versions I've heard clean out the water.

The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close.
Why on earth do you imagine that I havn't heard it?
 
As I said its just an opinion. The DVD audio version is a watered down version of the original album. Nice version of Jersulalem because the vocals are less distorted but thats all I like about it.
 
Do you understand the concept of opinion/taste etc?

Yes, I can understand your opinion. Lets move on.


Posted By: sturoc
Date Posted: March 20 2012 at 21:22
I have never gotten into the 5.1 realm. Maybe due to growing up with stereo imaging and Lps were fine. Since the music when performed onstage was usually mixed in stereo thru the mains. Studio tracks were recorded and mixed down in Stereo.
So unless the original was meant to be 5.1 it seems a bit pointless. I always listened to tracks as if I had the band in front of me onstage. 5.1 surround is abit artificial when coming from this philosophy.
 As for the audio quality if a format can come as close as possible to being in the control room or as the band played live then that is the ultimate listening format.

BUT the debate here especially gets so spun off since a listener is very subjective due to their own ears, equipment and listening environs.


Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: March 21 2012 at 12:22
Hi Fidelity is an expensive hobby.  A roommate of mine in college had a very nice system, and I would play my CD's on it every chance I got.  There is no question there is a big difference between what I have now and what he had then (with mine being cheap crap in comparison).  But frankly, I love the music, not the recording, if that makes sense.  I can hear all the instruments and nothing sounds particularly bad (well, some of the CD's are from source material that wasn't so great to begin with, but that stuff usually sounds even worse on a high end system).


Dennis, I just realized that my girlfriend (who lives with me) has a 5.1 stereo system that we keep forgetting to set up.........I'm now determined to get that thing set up and give some serious listening to the few 5.1 recordings I have (mostly Porcupine Tree, since a few of the albums were re-released with the 5.1).


Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 21 2012 at 15:15
Originally posted by infandous

Hi Fidelity is an expensive hobby.  A roommate of mine in college had a very nice system, and I would play my CD's on it every chance I got.  There is no question there is a big difference between what I have now and what he had then (with mine being cheap crap in comparison).  But frankly, I love the music, not the recording, if that makes sense.  I can hear all the instruments and nothing sounds particularly bad (well, some of the CD's are from source material that wasn't so great to begin with, but that stuff usually sounds even worse on a high end system).


Dennis, I just realized that my girlfriend (who lives with me) has a 5.1 stereo system that we keep forgetting to set up.........I'm now determined to get that thing set up and give some serious listening to the few 5.1 recordings I have (mostly Porcupine Tree, since a few of the albums were re-released with the 5.1).
 
Just don't let her hide the speakers behind a potted fern of a bunch of textbooks. Wink   Proper placement is key for the room.   Chicks hate speakers in general and will bury them like a squirrel with a freshly fallen acorn. Take her out to a nice dinner and then the next afternoon you'll be able to hang the rear surrounds without interference.LOL
 
Above you mentioned "the music" and "the recording" these two are always inextricably linked and are not mutually exclusive, though in modern music, some record companies & bands have intentionally engineered music to sound noisy
or bad for purpose of fashion or pop sensationalism.
 
I am not an audiophile or "audio snob" in the least, but my own ears have seen the power of getting a good stereo together.  Today it is not expensive at all.  A fine set of 5.1 speakers can be had for around $500.00 and a good enough receiver, $350.00.  This kind of system will leave you breathless & speachless after you hear for example the new 5.1 mix of J. Tull Aqualung.  Plus you mention your PT 5.1; Whatever people think of Steven Wilson's music, he has a separate talent for 5.1 mixing & production, that is why he is in demand so much to do other people's mixes into surround. You are in for a treat when you get your 5.1 PT running.
 
Most music from The Guess WHO to The WHO or Flower Kings or ELP, scales up amazing well as you get better quality speakers and equipment.  I have learned(from hearing the difference) that its really an obligation to try and improve the sound quality of your stereo because there is so much to hear from a CD that we miss by just having the "basic" system that modern convention says we need.
 
It really doesn't take much to be blown away!
 
Tongue
 
 


-------------
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 21 2012 at 15:47
Originally posted by sturoc

I have never gotten into the 5.1 realm. Maybe due to growing up with stereo imaging and Lps were fine. Since the music when performed onstage was usually mixed in stereo thru the mains. Studio tracks were recorded and mixed down in Stereo.
So unless the original was meant to be 5.1 it seems a bit pointless. I always listened to tracks as if I had the band in front of me onstage. 5.1 surround is abit artificial when coming from this philosophy.
 As for the audio quality if a format can come as close as possible to being in the control room or as the band played live then that is the ultimate listening format.

BUT the debate here especially gets so spun off since a listener is very subjective due to their own ears, equipment and listening environs.
 
Hi sturoc, Tongue
 
Please allow me to chime in here and underscore the need for 5.1 in most of the music that we as prog fans enjoy.
 
First, just to clear up something.  Live concerts are almost always mixed in mono.  This is for many reasons, one being that sound is relatively slow and reacts very differently in a large arena vs a living room.  Second, if a sound mixer used stereo at a concert then vast amounts of concert goers would not hear certain instruments as they sit off to one side or another. Sometimes a live artist will have a stereo effect on his guitar for an occasional impact moment,..
 
Recordings are made in stereo quite frankly because stereo provides an illusion of "more space"
 
Stereo:   "Sound that is directed through two or more speakers so that it seems to surround the listener and to come from more than one source."
 
This is an illusion but a very powerful one that we take for granted in all our modern recorded music.
 
5.1 is the next logical step adding yet more space for the listener to take in all instruments that are being played.
 
Virtually all music since the 1970's has far too many tracks to fit even in stereo so 5.1 remixing from the original multitrack tapes is very effective and I have learned is a much needed exercise.  I have the 5.1 mix of Elton John's Captain Fantastic(1975) and it is alarming to hear how many instruments are on that record!  The 5.1 mix really gives all the original instruments more space & clarity.  The experience is awesome to say the least.  Not all stuff needs 5.1.  Rap? No. Punk? No.  But I do not have a classic or prog rock CD in my collection that would not be greatly improved by remixing from the original to 5.1.  Most original recordings are 16 & 24 & 32 tracks!  The engineer had to make great sacrifices to fit those within the stereo field of just 2 channels. He did it cause there was no other choice. Engineers wanted Quadrophonic sound many years ago but the industry just couldn't convince people to buy all the extra speakers, which so were MUCH more expensive then.
 
One bad thing about 5.1 sound:
 
You will fall in love with it, then you will want your entire collection remixed to 5.1.  Sadly only a fraction of music exists in 5.1.  Good news is more and more stuff is coming out in 5.1.  New ELP!  Can;t wait!!!!!!
 
I have the entire  GENESIS collection that they remixed to 5.1 and it is beyond belief good..
 
Cheers!
 
DM


-------------
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: JIF8882
Date Posted: March 22 2012 at 00:31
The ELP cd that I am replacing from the Shout! Factory bunch is BSS. The rest sound fine to me.

-------------
J Dawg


Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: March 22 2012 at 09:31
Originally posted by dennismoore

 
Just don't let her hide the speakers behind a potted fern of a bunch of textbooks. Wink   Proper placement is key for the room.   Chicks hate speakers in general and will bury them like a squirrel with a freshly fallen acorn. Take her out to a nice dinner and then the next afternoon you'll be able to hang the rear surrounds without interference.LOL
 
Above you mentioned "the music" and "the recording" these two are always inextricably linked and are not mutually exclusive, though in modern music, some record companies & bands have intentionally engineered music to sound noisy
or bad for purpose of fashion or pop sensationalism.
 
I am not an audiophile or "audio snob" in the least, but my own ears have seen the power of getting a good stereo together.  Today it is not expensive at all.  A fine set of 5.1 speakers can be had for around $500.00 and a good enough receiver, $350.00.  This kind of system will leave you breathless & speachless after you hear for example the new 5.1 mix of J. Tull Aqualung.  Plus you mention your PT 5.1; Whatever people think of Steven Wilson's music, he has a separate talent for 5.1 mixing & production, that is why he is in demand so much to do other people's mixes into surround. You are in for a treat when you get your 5.1 PT running.
 
Most music from The Guess WHO to The WHO or Flower Kings or ELP, scales up amazing well as you get better quality speakers and equipment.  I have learned(from hearing the difference) that its really an obligation to try and improve the sound quality of your stereo because there is so much to hear from a CD that we miss by just having the "basic" system that modern convention says we need.
 
It really doesn't take much to be blown away!
 
Tongue
 
 



Well to me the sound quality and the musical quality are two different things entirely, always have been (which is probably why I used to enjoy bootlegs so much, despite the crappy sound most of the had).  Still, there is no denying that sound quality does effect overall enjoyment of the listening experience.

Sorry, $850 to me is EXPENSIVE.  Way more than I can afford for a sound system.  Of course, as I mentioned, it looks like I don't have to anyway, so I guess that point isn't all that relevant to me anymore.  However, before I lived with my girlfriend, that would have been completely out of the question.  If I did have $850, I would buy a new guitar or guitar amp long before I would even think about getting a new stereo (or, better yet, pay down some debt Unhappy )




Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 22 2012 at 11:32
Originally posted by infandous

Sorry, $850 to me is EXPENSIVE.  Way more than I can afford for a sound system.  Of course, as I mentioned, it looks like I don't have to anyway, so I guess that point isn't all that relevant to me anymore.  However, before I lived with my girlfriend, that would have been completely out of the question.  If I did have $850, I would buy a new guitar or guitar amp long before I would even think about getting a new stereo (or, better yet, pay down some debt Unhappy )
 
Understood, I just picked those price points in general.  One can get 5.1 for cheaper and of course one can spend much more.  But if you realize this expense will be enjoyed for many years, it ends of being a few pennies per day!
How much do you eat out or how much is spent on beer & wine? Wink  There is always a way.Smile
 
Here is a great site to find super cheap deals on 5.1 receivers & speaker sets, check it often as the site focuses on daily specials.
 
http://www.techbargains.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.techbargains.com/
 
Mods: this is not spamming, this site is the bomb for cheap b*****ds like me who have to work for a living. Wink


-------------
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: gtrdave
Date Posted: April 22 2012 at 21:57
Originally posted by richardh

Originally posted by tarkusnj

< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland. 

Are you referring to the Rhino released BSS DVD-Audio?

If so, I couldn't agree more. I received a copy of it years ago and on the first listen I knew that it was a bad representation of the original, seeing as how many of the vocals are not the 'takes' that were on the original album.
Same goes for some of the keyboard parts (KE9 1st impression part 2 to be specific...maybe others).
That DVD-A and a few others released around that time tended to give 5.1 music a bad reputation, imho.

If you're referring to another DVD-A release of BSS, I'd love to know which one and if it's better than this drinking coaster that I've got here.

As far as Steven Wilson getting involved in 5.1 mixes, I'm thinking it's a good thing. He's been a fan of the format from back when we (we being dts, where I used to work) released In Absentia and Deadwing in 5.1.
If he does justice to the original by creating complimentary surround mixes then I look forward to hearing them.

btw: first post here. I stumbled upon the forum via a search and I hope to stick around for a while and talk about one of the best music genres ever. :)


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: April 22 2012 at 23:22
Originally posted by JIF8882

The ELP cd that I am replacing from the Shout! Factory bunch is BSS. The rest sound fine to me.


Forgive me for asking, but what problems did you have with the Shout version of Brain Salad Surgery? Not that I don't believe you, I just want to compare observations.

To me, that version of BSS sounds a tad bass heavy and Carl Palmer's drumming doesn't sound as clear as it should. Are these the same issues you have or were there other ones?


-------------
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 23 2012 at 01:44
Originally posted by gtrdave

Originally posted by richardh

Originally posted by tarkusnj

< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
 
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland. 

Are you referring to the Rhino released BSS DVD-Audio?

If so, I couldn't agree more. I received a copy of it years ago and on the first listen I knew that it was a bad representation of the original, seeing as how many of the vocals are not the 'takes' that were on the original album.
Same goes for some of the keyboard parts (KE9 1st impression part 2 to be specific...maybe others).
That DVD-A and a few others released around that time tended to give 5.1 music a bad reputation, imho.

If you're referring to another DVD-A release of BSS, I'd love to know which one and if it's better than this drinking coaster that I've got here.

As far as Steven Wilson getting involved in 5.1 mixes, I'm thinking it's a good thing. He's been a fan of the format from back when we (we being dts, where I used to work) released In Absentia and Deadwing in 5.1.
If he does justice to the original by creating complimentary surround mixes then I look forward to hearing them.

btw: first post here. I stumbled upon the forum via a search and I hope to stick around for a while and talk about one of the best music genres ever. :)
 
Hi there , good to have you on the forum!
 
Re the BSS DVD audio its not just the vocals (actually the vocal on Jersusalem is good on that version ,the only thing I like on it) but the synths and the horrible bass drum sound. Palmer had a very percussive style where the bass drum is not used in the same way that its used by say someone like Nick Mason. That DVD -A represents the band poorly in my view.
 
As I said earlier in the discussion I don't have a surround sound system or a high end hi -fi but I do know what I like.
 
 
 


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 09 2012 at 13:39
A bit more information I had by e-mail today from cd-services:
 
These ELP 3 Disc Sets have been rumoured for a while, but no we can confirm that they ARE to be released soon! Following on from his stunning work done on re-issues of classics such as: KING CRIMSON's 'In The Court Of The Crimson King', CARAVAN's 'In The Land Of Grey & Pink', JETHRO TULL's 'Aqualung' and the forthcoming 'Thick As A Brick', STEVEN WILSON set about the task of adding his subtle touch to the following two ELP classics, and in the process created 5.1 Surround Sound versions of both. Each Triple Disc Set contains a Remastered Album in its Original Version, a 2nd Disc featuring a Remastered Alternative Version and the 3rd Disc is a DVD-Audio containing the album Remastered for 5.1 Surround Sound.  So, this is not just yet another run-of-the mill regurgitation job on classic ELP... this is something different... the albums are sprinkled with that magic Steven Wilson fairy dust that seems to bring them back to life in a way that music fans wants to hear them!

 

EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER: ELP

Classic Album Triple Disc Set: - 2 CD's and a DVD-Audio:- CD1 is the Original Album Remastered, CD2 is an "Alternate" Version of the album and the DVD-A is Steven Wilson's 5.1 Surround Mixes.
I wonder what 'Tank' and that Moog solo on the end of 'Lucky Man' are going to sound like in 5.1? - Can't wait!

Track List - Disc 1 [CD - Original Album Remastered]:
01.     Barbarian
02.     Take A Pebble
03.     Knife-Edge
04.     Three Fates
i.)     Clotho
ii.)    Lachesis
iii.)   Atropos
05.     Tank
06.     Lucky Man

Track List - Disc 2 [CD - Alternate Version]:
01.     Barbarian
02.     Take A Pebble
03.     Knife-Edge
04.     Promenade
05.     Three Fates: Atropos [Piano Trio]
06.     Rave Up
07.     Drum Solo
08.     Lucky Man
09.     Take A Pebble
10.     Knife-Edge
11.     Lucky Man
12.     Lucky Man

Track List - Disc 3 [DVD-A - 5.1 Mixes]:
01.     Barbarian
02.     Take A Pebble
03.     Knife-Edge
04.     Three Fates: Atropos [Piano Trio]
05.     Rave Up
06.     Lucky Man
07.     Barbarian
08.     Take A Pebble
09.     Knife-Edge
10.     Promenade
11.     Three Fates: Atropos [Piano Trio]
12.     Rave Up
13.     Drum Solo
14.     Lucky Man
15.     Take A Pebble
16.     Knife-Edge
17.     Lucky Man
18.     Lucky Man

EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER: TARKUS

Classic Album Triple Disc Set: - 2 CD's and a DVD-Audio: - CD1 is the Original Album Remastered, CD2 is an "Alternate" Version of the album and the DVD-A is Steven Wilson's 5.1 Surround Mixes.
I can't wait to hear what Steven Wilson has done to this epic work!

Track List - Disc 1 [CD - Original Album Remastered]:
01.     Tarkus
i.)     Eruption
ii.)    Stones Of Years
iii.)   Iconoclast
iv.)    Mass
v.)     Manticore
vi.)    Battlefield
vii.)   Aquatarkus
02.     Jeremy Bender
03.     Bitches Crystal
04.     Only Way {Hymn}
05.     Infinite Space {Conclusion}
06.     A Time And A Place
07.     Are You Ready Eddy?

Track List - Disc 2 [CD - Alternate Version]:
01.     Tarkus
i.)     Eruption
ii.)    Stones Of Years
iii.)   Iconoclast
iv.)    Mass
v.)     Manticore
vi.)    Battlefield
vii.)   Aquatarkus
02.     Oh, My Father
03.     Bitches Crystal
04.     Only Way {Hymn}
05.     Infinite Space {Conclusion}
06.     A Time And A Place
07.     Unknown Ballad
08.     Mass

Track List - Disc 3 [DVD-A - 5.1 Mixes]:
01.     Tarkus
i.)     Eruption
ii.)    Stones Of Years
iii.)   Iconoclast
iv.)    Mass
v.)     Manticore
vi.)    Battlefield
vii.)   Aquatarkus
02.     Jeremy Bender
03.     Bitches Crystal
04.     Only Way {Hymn}
05.     Infinite Space {Conclusion}
06.     A Time And A Place
07.     Are You Ready Eddy?
08.     Oh, My Father
09.     Unknown Ballad
10.     Mass



Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 09 2012 at 13:42
I always prefer Tarkus split into separate tracks. Like on the LP and my CD.

-------------
Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: warp2600
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 02:18
Originally posted by richardh

A bit more information I had by e-mail today from cd-services:
 
 Each Triple Disc Set contains a Remastered Album in its Original Version, a 2nd Disc featuring a Remastered Alternative Version and the 3rd Disc is a DVD-Audio containing the album Remastered for 5.1 Surround Sound. 


SW confirmed that these 2 sets will not include DVD-Audio discs but only DVD-video with DTS surround soundCry and a high resolution stereo mix. However, the negative feedback for this decision from fans was overwhelming, which SW forwarded to the record company and said there is a chance for including high-res surround mixes in the further releases.

BTW, I am contemplating paying some serious $$$ for the 2008 3cd Deluxe edition of BSS, which includes the SACD said to be a DSD transfer of the Rhino DVD-Audio mix.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 03:10
Originally posted by warp2600

Originally posted by richardh

A bit more information I had by e-mail today from cd-services:
 
 Each Triple Disc Set contains a Remastered Album in its Original Version, a 2nd Disc featuring a Remastered Alternative Version and the 3rd Disc is a DVD-Audio containing the album Remastered for 5.1 Surround Sound. 


SW confirmed that these 2 sets will not include DVD-Audio discs but only DVD-video with DTS surround soundCry and a high resolution stereo mix. However, the negative feedback for this decision from fans was overwhelming, which SW forwarded to the record company and said there is a chance for including high-res surround mixes in the further releases.

BTW, I am contemplating paying some serious $$$ for the 2008 3cd Deluxe edition of BSS, which includes the SACD said to be a DSD transfer of the Rhino DVD-Audio mix.
the deluxe edition of BSS was a big disappointment to me although perhaps I don't have the equipment to appreciate it to be honest
if you don't have them already then I would recommend the deluxe editions of Pictures and Welcome Back My Friends. Both are excellent quality and Pictures has an audio of the 1970 Lyceum gig nicely cleaned up.


Posted By: warp2600
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 03:52
[/QUOTE]
the deluxe edition of BSS was a big disappointment to me although perhaps I don't have the equipment to appreciate it to be honest
if you don't have them already then I would recommend the deluxe editions of Pictures and Welcome Back My Friends. Both are excellent quality and Pictures has an audio of the 1970 Lyceum gig nicely cleaned up.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the recommendations. I had no idea there were Deluxe editions of those.
As for BSS Deluxe, I am mostly in it for the SACD. It is said to sound slightly better than the DVD-A. It is out of print and goes for insane amounts of money so I would be better off waiting for the new set announced by Razor and Tie albeit there are no details about that one.


Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 11:54
INB4 Steven Wilson releases a triple solo album inspired by ELP.

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Posted By: BobNYC
Date Posted: July 06 2012 at 12:28
Here is the full press release on the R&T reissues with 5.1 Surround Sound

RAZOR & TIE ANNOUNCES RE-ISSUES OF LEGENDARY

PROG ROCKERS EMERSON, LAKE & PALMERíS DEBUT ALBUM AND TARKUS. BOTH ALBUMS AVAILABLE AS

3-DISC DELUXE SETS ON SEPTEMBER 11

Albums To Include New 5.1 And Stereo Mixes 

Both Albums To Be Released On Limited Edition 180 Gram Audiophile Vinyl 

Special ELP Merchandise Pre-order Bundles Now Available Now At http://elp.merchnow.com/" rel="nofollow -


The Emerson, Lake & Palmer 40th Anniversary Concert To Exclusively Premiere On AXS TV This August


(New York, NY) Ė Razor & Tie is set to release the first two Emerson, Lake & Palmer re-issues of the bandís first two albums: Emerson, Lake & Palmer (1970 Ė Studio Album) and Tarkus (1971 Ė Studio Album) on September 11th.  Both records will be available as 3-disc deluxe editions containing never before released 5.1 Surround Sound and Stereo Mixes, including previously unheard out-takes.  Three time Grammy-nominated producer and engineer Steven Wilson (who has also recently remixed classic albums by Jethro Tull and King Crimson for acclaimed 40th anniversary editions) worked from the original Greg Lake produced multi-track tapes to remix both albums.

 

Fans can also purchase Emerson, Lake & Palmer and Tarkus deluxe editions at http://elp.merchnow.com/" rel="nofollow - where the albums will be bundled with a variety of ELP t-shirts perfect for any collector.  Pre-orders are available now for the deluxe albums, vinyl re-presses and a selection of Emerson, Lake & Palmer t-shirts.

Emerson, Lake & Palmer and Tarkus will also be released on limited edition 180 gram audiophile vinyl.  The records will be re-pressed and released with their original packaging and track listings.  The vinyl re-presses will be available September 11th as well. 

Both albums will also be digitally, specifically mastered for iTunes by Grammy-award winning engineer Brad Blackwood (Alison Krauss & Union Station, Maroon 5, North Mississippi Allstars, Saving Abel).

AXS TV will also exclusively premiere the Emerson, Lake & Palmer 40th Anniversary concert this August.  The legendary Rock Band reunited to celebrate their 40th Anniversary and headlined London's first High Voltage Rock Festival. This was the historic moment when Emerson Lake and Palmer performed for the first time since 1998. This spectacular performance with extravagant special effects and lighting recaptured the magic and musical genius of Keith Emerson, Greg Lake and Carl Palmer as they performed their greatest hits in front of thousands of fans and leaving a lasting memory of the stunning musicianship of these three legendary performers.

Razor & Tieís full catalogue re-issue campaign will continue with the release of newly expanded, re-mastered, editions of four additional ELP classic albums: Pictures At An Art Exhibition (1971- Live Album), Trilogy (1972- Studio Album), Brain Salad Surgery (1973- Studio Album), and Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends Ė Ladies & Gentlemen (1974- Live Album). 

Considered by many to be one of rockís original first super-groups, Emerson Lake & Palmer formed in England in 1970 consisting of Keith Emerson (keyboards), Greg Lake (bass guitar, vocals, guitar) and Carl Palmer (drums, percussion). The band created a brand new world of music, combining classical and symphonic rock fused with beautiful vocals.  Their penchant for appropriating themes from classical music and the groupís more nuanced, textured approach to symphonic arrangements set ELP apart from their more bombastic guitar-based contemporaries of the time.   This subtler and more sublime approach carries on today in the expansive atmospherics of Radiohead and Muse and also in the prog-influenced sphere of bandís like Porcupine Tree, Dream Theatre, Opeth and many others, making ELP one of the more relevant torchbearers of the progressive rock sound.  Along with Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, and Rush, Emerson Lake and Palmer ushered in the Prog era and as one of the most commercially successful rock bands of the 1970ís having sold over 40 million albums.  ELPís dramatic flair, sincere passion, labyrinthine song structures, and symphony-worthy virtuosity proved that classical rockers could compete for arena-scale audiences as the band headlined stadium tours around the world. 





Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 06 2012 at 16:10
$20 for the vinyl remaster.......That's a deal! I have a German print of Tarkus from 1972 that is pretty darn good, a bit noisy in the begining but everything else is good......Side B is pristine (I have played it maybe 3x.....Dead)
LOL 


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Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: July 06 2012 at 20:50
Originally posted by BobNYC

Here is the full press release on the R&T reissues with 5.1 Surround Sound

PROG ROCKERS EMERSON, LAKE & PALMERíS DEBUT ALBUM AND TARKUS. BOTH ALBUMS AVAILABLE AS

3-DISC DELUXE SETS ON SEPTEMBER 11

Albums To Include New 5.1 And Stereo Mixes 

Both Albums To Be Released On Limited Edition 180 Gram Audiophile Vinyl 



Thanks BobNYC,  Smile

I already have ordered both from Amazon.co.uk.  Too bad USA release is later.  Stupid release dates always different. Why not just sell the stuff to us, ok?  Why jerk around the true fans with all the different release dates???

Anyway, as soon as those fine English gentlemen send me my copies across the Atlantic I will be BLASTING the 5.1 mix so loud, the bloody Queen of England will be able to hear it!

Approve


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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 26 2012 at 03:39
 


Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: August 26 2012 at 09:01
Originally posted by Fox On The Rocks

Great! My Tarkus is damaged







-------------


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 26 2012 at 16:43
So they are now here!!
Been listening to Emerson,Lake and Palmer's debut- alternative version. Not much change on Take A Pebble or The Barbarian but then Knife Edge has noticeable changes on the vocals (I like) and a different ending (I don't like). Side Two in old money now starts with Promenade from Pictures At An Exhibition (with vocals) followed by just the 3rd Fate . There is a completly new track called Rave Up which is totally brilliant and shows ELP getting together as a band. Tank is completely gutted (Steven obviously doesn't like jazz rock he he) just leaving the drum solo. Lucky Man is largely left intact though. The effect of this is to balance out the solo material with much less emphasis on Emerson keyboards especially. Do I like it overall? On first listen I'm not sure to be honest but its an interesting experiment and at least you still have the orginal version to listen to all nicely remastered (an excellent job done in this respect). I will give my opinion on SW's Tarkus later.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 26 2012 at 16:53
Had a few listens to Tarkus. SW had done quite a bit with the transitions on the suite but not too much meddling thankfully.Side Two always had a lot more potential for improvement and thats where I think SW has done his best work on the ELP reissues. The Only Way ,always a good track, now gives me goosepbumps. The church organ sounds even more splendid as does Lake's singing. The first bonus track  Oh, My Father is a gem , very emotional and unusually soulfull (for ELP). Unknown Ballad is a real curiosity and hardly sounds like ELP at all. Only Lake speaking at the end convinces me its ELP! Finally there is an alternate version of Mass which works quite nicely as a seperate track.
All in all great job by Steven on both discs. Looking forward to SW hopefully getting his hands on Trilogy and BSS.


Posted By: mantifluid
Date Posted: August 28 2012 at 15:11
My ELP box sets have been dispatched, I would like to know if there is a dvda mix, and has any one heared it yet.


Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 28 2012 at 15:56
Originally posted by mantifluid

My ELP box sets have been dispatched, I would like to know if there is a dvda mix, and has any one heared it yet.


Yes there is one made by Steven Wilson, a review coming soon, check your friend Google...Wink
In the meantime, you can check this thread :

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?16499-Emerson-Lake-amp-Palmer-TARKUS-DVD-A" rel="nofollow - http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?16499-Emerson-Lake-amp-Palmer-TARKUS-DVD-A




Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 29 2012 at 01:10
I don't have a surround sound system so I played the DVD-A through my stereo system selecting the 'enhanced stereo' option and it sounds excactly like the CD but I guess thats to be expected.


Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: August 29 2012 at 13:22
Originally posted by richardh

So they are now here!!
Been listening to Emerson,Lake and Palmer's debut- alternative version. Not much change on Take A Pebble or The Barbarian but then Knife Edge has noticeable changes on the vocals (I like) and a different ending (I don't like). Side Two in old money now starts with Promenade from Pictures At An Exhibition (with vocals) followed by just the 3rd Fate . There is a completly new track called Rave Up which is totally brilliant and shows ELP getting together as a band. Tank is completely gutted (Steven obviously doesn't like jazz rock he he) just leaving the drum solo. Lucky Man is largely left intact though. The effect of this is to balance out the solo material with much less emphasis on Emerson keyboards especially. Do I like it overall? On first listen I'm not sure to be honest but its an interesting experiment and at least you still have the orginal version to listen to all nicely remastered (an excellent job done in this respect). I will give my opinion on SW's Tarkus later.
 
Hi richardh,   Smile
 
I am glad you got yours, mine are crossing the Atlantic on the way to my house as we speak.  I can't wait to play them!
 
One small detail.  About your review of the 1st, ELP:  Steven Wilson didn't want to really change anything.  The 5.1 surround of The Three Fates and Tank are radically changed cause the orig. multitrack tapes were lost so he worked with the multichannel bits of tape he did have for The Three Fates.  The 2channel mix taken from the stereo master has no changes at all, as all songs were available from that 2 channel master. So the only "changes" are on the 3rd 5.1 disc and were due to incomplete lost multichannel tapes.
 
I can't wait for my discs to arrive and also for Trilogy, BSS and Welcome Back and Pictures. Smile   Smile   Smile   Smile   Smile


-------------
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: mantifluid
Date Posted: August 29 2012 at 15:09
I listening to Tarkus DVDA right now whilst typing this,and I can tell you boys and girls, its somthing else.
Tarkus is one of my favorite albums and have played it over and over, now its sounds if the band are in my room blasting away.
This is how recordings should sound clear clean powerfull every detail captured, and yet not harsh or over equed, it has the warmth of vinyl and yet the crispness of CD
Music should be somthing you look forward to with each purchase, as you get older that thrill fades away, but on this experence it brings back the joy of your youth.
The only way is playing now and I swear Keith is sat at some church organ in my living room Greg laying down the vocals.
Mr Wilson has done fantastic work hear Trilogy BSS and the live albums will give me and all fans of High rez recordings something to really light the fires once more.
 


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 30 2012 at 02:51
^ The Only Way is certainly something special now.Approve
 
 
Thanks for the info dennismoore , I am literally drooling at the prospect of SW getting his hands on BSS especiallyBig smile


Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 31 2012 at 04:12
A Review by Darren Lock on You Tube; Disclaimer, he doesn't like very much ELP, but he likes the mixes done by SW :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkUk84I6XiE&feature=g-all-u" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkUk84I6XiE&feature=g-all-u




Posted By: mantifluid
Date Posted: August 31 2012 at 09:50
This prog review is a joke right, keith Emerson is a pub piano player, please give me a break.
I understand people who loath certain bands, but you have to back it up, the guy says he dosn't like overlong meandering sections that ELP do, and yet he enjoys relayer a album with 3 songs.
 
I love the way people are selecteive with picking holes in ELP, the knives overblown theatrics and so on, they forget one very important point they are talented muzos first and formost.
Jimi hendrix was full of tricks in the early years but you could never deny the man could play guitar,
Its like me say the review was bad because the bloke was fat, look past the visual and listen to the music.


Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: August 31 2012 at 20:55
Originally posted by richardh

^ The Only Way is certainly something special now.Approve
 
 


Dude!  You read my mind about The Only Way....    As I wait for my discs, I am thinking what track to play first,
and I keep thinking The Only Way for those haunting low organ pipes and then magestic grand piano and Greg's
fine tenor....   What a treat indeed.

I am not sure most folks here understand how special these releases are or what magic takes place when a gifted ear
such as Steven Wilson goes back from the original multi  tracks and rebuilds the whole project from scratch and spreads it out to 5.1 channels.  Too bad more folks can't experience the surround sound easier.

Me....   I can't effin wait!

P.S.  I have the older,now out of print DVD-Audio of Brain Salad Surgery and it does sound magnificent, though I do think Steven's mix will be totally worthwhile and different from the that one.  Steven has a way to recreate reverbs
and stuff that was used on the original 2 track mixdown, he keeps the original feel but adds clarity and depth toall the instruments.  I don't know how he does it.  His 5.1 mix of Aqualung is to die for.

Us proggers are so very lucky that Steven is giving his time(at very little compensation) to do these surround mixes...ELP, Tull, Crimson....


-------------
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire


Posted By: Gooner
Date Posted: March 04 2013 at 15:09
Steven Wilson remastering/remixing the first two ELP albums?  Time to get out the dartboard.
 
 


Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: March 04 2013 at 16:52
A dartboard?Ermm

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This night wounds time.



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