Do PA proggers have the right prog balance?
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Topic: Do PA proggers have the right prog balance?
Posted By: dr prog
Subject: Do PA proggers have the right prog balance?
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 03:06
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Too often I'm finding the best composed albums here to be rated low and the least well composed albums rated high. Most of us like the same bands of the era between the late 60s and early 80s but do prog listeners continually choose the most experimental/least composed stuff over the most well composed? I've always believed the best music came from the best composers and the more great compositions you can put in an album the better. Experimenting is ok, but when it's long passages of non melodic music, I believe this is filler and proof the band lacks strong composition to fill an album. Experimenting and Improvising should be saved for concerts. Albums should be packed with genius |
Replies:
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 03:14
| Schoenberg is not a composer, then? |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 03:15
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Got some examples? I rarely rate or review albums here, but for me composition, experimentalism and improvisation are on the same line and all that matters is how much enjoyment I get out of listening to it.
Smiley or not, I'm sure some people may not like the "I'm right and I know what is good music, and you all are wrong" mentality.
------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
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dr prog wrote:Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 03:15
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Well yes, it is weird for you to consider J-Tull.com a 5 star album, but if you think non-melodic music and improvisation is filler then you have a different perspective, which has nothing to do with "maturity". There is no such thing as the right prog balance.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 03:15
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He sure isn't very progressive for somebody that calls himself dr prog. Good thing glorifiedpopmusicarchives.com is going to be Max's next site. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 04:14
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In science an experiment is made to confirm a hypothesis or to find a new law of nature. In music it's needed to progress. Without experiments in music we would still be beating branches on trees. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 04:35
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^True.
Good composition is quite subjective I guess. I also guess you're using Larks' Tongues in Aspic as a main reference point behind your post (I remember you being confused about the praise it gets). But didn't you say you listened to that album in your car? I really don't think that's a good place to listen to that album considering the hugely varied dynamics in tracks. You need no (or almost no) background noise to listen to Larks' properly IMO. Maybe then, you'll change your mind once you can hear it properly, or not. (BTW I don't think the album is perfect as I do think it has its slight flaws).
Anyway, I mostly agree with you that good composition always comes out on top, and yes some prog can be grating and seem badly composed, but some just need time and several listens. Different people will prefer different composition styles, I mean are any Behold... The Arctopus pieces well composed? (Sorry, this is after 1983). I think some are, but it helps looking at the full piece as well, and what may seem "least composed" may be the exact opposite. Whether it resonates well with you is the important thing. This rant probably makes no sense, and probably the reason I don't do it often.  ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 04:54
I have similar misgiving in some sporadic causes, but I cannot to say, that it is generally or frequently. Everybody feels single records individually and it is good, by my meaning. Normalization rating by similar mechanical criterion is way to the hell.
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 04:56
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How do you rate the non-melodic part of Pink Floyd's Echoes? Is it a filler?
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 04:57
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Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 05:13
I like it. And King Crimson's Moonchild Including The Dream And The Illusion I like too.  |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 05:43
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I'm so glad we have you here to set us straight. Experimentation and improv are part of the genius of prog. Too bad you are incapable of appreciating that. We have the right balance. Whenever someone trots out the term filler, it always boils down to stuff that the person doesn't like. Give me your "perfect" album and I'll tell you what is filler to me.  Composition is overrated. Long live decomposition.!!! You want "perfect" albums? Just stick with "best" of albums. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 06:20
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In general, reviewers base their ratings on listening experiences (positive/negative), the replay value of an album and it's place within the perceived historical context of prog (importance). The deeper rooted elements of composition and intelligence of the instrumental parts can perhaps better be judged by people who are experienced musicians themselves, but that's not what reviewing is about. Reviewing isn't just for an elite of knowledgeable persons, but it is for the general public; in this way it reflects the opinion of the general public. Next to the opinion of the general public, there's your own opinion. The latter should be more influential in choosing the music you listen to, the first can help you find new music.
And to be perfectly honest, I think the people who really embrace the eclectic/Progressive ideal are in a minority on PA. A lot of people like music in the vein of Genesis, Yes and the like and completely satisfied with the genre-name progressive rock (which doesn't necessarily imply the music is innovative or experimental). |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 06:39
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I like the rough edges. I like the experimental and improvised bits. I like the funny track on a serious album. I like the odd track that "ruins" an album. I do have problems with this thread. It was put in a way to insult PA proggers. If you have another site or forum that gets it right, please do share. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 07:02
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Given the imaturity I've seen in many of dr.progs posts, I find this entire thread laughable. It all comes down to personal tastes, and no matter how much I hate certain artists who are highly rated by a majority here, or highly rate certain artisit who are either lowly rated by othes or completely ignored, it doesnt make me right and them wrong. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 07:09
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I find the premise of the thread laughable but nothing ventured... The original post is full of filler. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 07:16
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 07:18
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Filler = Polyfilla And I love that stuff. Seriously though, this is the ongoing discussion we've been having for years now, but who has any right in regards to music? If music had any inherent quality to it, then we wouldn't be the only ones listening to it. Then we'd be fighting rhinos and foxes for the killer spots at the Porcupine Tree gig. Just like Slarti points out: Give me one man's filler and I'll give you my idea of musical bliss. I had a discussion with one guy at some point. He couldn't get his head around the fact, that I totally and utterly adore Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica. Luckily so - we are all different, but sometimes I do get a bit irritated that we need to keep pointing that out. Come on! And yep - you heard it here first: the earth is round as well. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 07:20
Small-minded
 The original post is EXPERIMENT !!!  |
Posted By: DaveyByTheSea
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 07:46
| At the risk of offending Flower Kings fans ( of which i am one) would any of their albums exist without experimention and filler? The same could be said of Yes's "Tales from...." But I love all the work from both of these artists regardless! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 07:53
From my point of view " Tales" has no filler. To me it would be like saying that Beethoven's ninth suffers from filler. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 07:56
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No but you have the right to remain silent. ------------- 
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Posted By: DaveyByTheSea
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:00
| Fair point Snow i acknowledge that....probably filler is not the right word. I would also miss any second exorcised from "Tales" |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:08
No...you are right. many people here have a problem with "Tales" and think it would be better as a shorter album. Even a single album has been suggested. Not for me though. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:14
There, much better.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:18
That is now a very tight post without flab. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: colorofmoney91
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:31
But it's an atrocity  ------------- http://hanashukketsu.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Hanashukketsu |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:32
-------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:33
No. no! Now we have the essentials of the post with all the clutter and crap cut out! Now it is a five star post while before it was dragged down to a two or three at most. There were words that ruined an otherwise perfect post! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:34
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I question the need for "balance" in the first place when it comes to opinions. Objectivity is really unachievable.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: colorofmoney91
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:39
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I like my progressive music to be absolutely stagnant. ------------- http://hanashukketsu.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Hanashukketsu |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:45
What does that smiley mean ......What is this tread........why did I hit respond....... ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:48
But we can search intersubjective objectivity using new progressive method. We can made special poll for election so called Right Balanced Rater (RBR), which will rate albums instead us other.
My nomination for RBR: dr prog.
And your?
p.s.
It is not joke, it is experiment
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Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 09:00
I feel you man, although I might like the technicality stuff more than you do. But I have a couple buddies who are prog heads as well, and they're always telling me they bought some album because it was in the top ten on the PA Top 100 of the year list, and they didn't like it, and I keep telling them just because it's high up on that list doesn't make it good! I think usually the best albums make the list, but are way down the list because they're given just as many 1 and 2 star ratings as 4 and 5. For some reason the best albums are always hated as much as they're loved around here.  |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 09:18
I dont know about Experiment, but its definitely improvised. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 10:06
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My thought on this matter is that most people go for their personal taste (nothing wrong with that), not only on this forum, but everywhere you look, and therefore, you'll find things that you love and find amazing, with lower rating than others you would not care much for, and viceversa. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 10:28
That was really good.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 10:54
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wat ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 10:58
I don't think being experimental necessarily means that the music is built on a minor degree of composing. You can construct elaborate stuff and still be experimental and still retain a sense of purpose and intent behind it. But of course there is music which you might say is entirely experimental, just for the sake of it, and it's up to each person to decide if it is and what quality it may have. But experimentalism is a relative thing. It's not the antithesis to "good composing". You can include experimentation to different degrees. 100% experimental would mean that it would be an "experiment", and no one would be sure what was going on.
Maybe I could agree with you in specific cases, but I don't think you really mean that in general all passages without melodies are filler material. "filler" is a specific word. It would only be so if there was a lack of true intent and inspiration behind the music, but how could you know?
I don't think in terms of amateur and professional, because its not such levels that determine the quality of the music. But to be strongly attached to virtuosity and experimenting and technical , any aspect really , won't produce the best music, I believe the focus should be all of the music, the sum of all parts.
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:00
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Sorry, just looking for the bathroom. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:26
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Posted By: ProgEpics
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:31
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Gentle giant and jethro tull are the most over-rated bands on here imo, They are an example of being overly complex with nothing else to offer. Prog is not complex instrumental sections that go on and on..prog is supposed to be emotional. Dark side of the moon is not even close to being complex technically but it has so much emotion and great melody and jazzy chord arranging..The great albums are straight to the point and dont noodle around for 15 minutes, you need substance..quality over quantity. ------------- Come on you target for faraway laughter, Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine! |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:34
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^I get what you're saying, but it is still something that relies on personal opinion. Not fact. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:36
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:42
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A lot of people adore Tangerine Dream's Zeit. They think it is one of the most artistic and imaginative albums ever made, but calling it great from a compositional perspective is pretty absurd.
You mentioned Dark side of the Moon, and while I love the album myself, I think Ummagumma is a far better album. And yes I am also including the studio side, which incidentally is one of my faves. How does one quantify music? Is Mozart a better musician than Stockhausen? How could you ever possibly find out? ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:44
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^ well, submitting them to ratings and reviewing on an all encompassing music website... Right?
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:50
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Ahh snap Alex. Of course you are right. As a matter of fact, the majority is always right. Just because I happen to love eroding and improvisational music, does actually equate me being wrong and rather mad y'know. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:54
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Sometimes when I'm bored I like to skydive naked into a porcupine field. That is the only good answer you can get for such a silly statement, OP. ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:54
So a more mainstream prog album is better than a more progressive rock type prog album? Actually DSOTM is great...but so is Octopus and Thick as a Brick for example. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 14:06
I don't like it when people use the word "should" in cases like these. Should? This is how it needs to be?? And what's noodling, and when is noodling and when is it improvising. poaehrgpoahfgpoaifhvaefpogafdgpoaiuh  ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 14:09
+1 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 14:11
Since when is Jethro Tull particularly complex?
I like this statement. |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 14:33
I declare this to be the winning post. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 14:37
The idea that progressive rock is complex is only true in relation to ordinary pop music, otherwise I think the word is overused. It might be dense with notes, rythms and parts, it can be extremely varied and unpredictable, but does it make it complex? I don't know.
However, I regard Jethro Tull as one of the most complex, or advanced bands. The way the music is executed makes it sound simpler than what it is , though.
You don't often call classical music "complex" - though it's mostly a 100 times more complex than prog. But it's on an advanced level were the complexity is natural. So I think it's a misleading word.
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Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 14:48
------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 15:03
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End of thread. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA!
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 15:07
ProgEpicsFail... ;) Just kidding. I do find the post odd. I've felt that Gentle Giant is tight for a Prog band, doesn't go on and on (has brevity), and I certainly don't think complexity is all that is being offered. I don't even think the music terribly complex -- complex for normal rock, or pop, but not that complex compared to academic music, and not compared to a lot of Prog. Jethro Tull never seemed that complex to me. I guess you weren't referring to GG when you talked about noddling for 15 minutes as it is a band with relatively short for Prog music. What is this about Prog being supposed to be emotional? I've never heard or thought that. Music generally evokes emotions in listeners, and that's the same with Prog, but I don't see why the music itself needs to contain emotion. I see Progressive Rock (i.e Prog) to an extent being about moving away from standard/ typical rock conventions, often by incorporating various styles of music, for instance jazz and classical into a rock framework, but progressing away from typical rock expectations. Jazz might often be considered noodly like Prog, well jazz, of course, influenced Prog. Improvisation is a better term commonly for jazz. A lot of complexity comes from the classical influence. For me classical music, to use the general term, commonly evokes the strongest emotions. To use the progressing away from standard rock conventions thinking (Prog is much more than that), Prog is not about progressing away from the intellectualism of rock music into a more visceral form -- one does find the opposite commonly, so that's just a possible reason why I wouldn't think that progressive rock is supposed to be about emotions. To me progressive rock can often be described well as unconventional rock, and appealing to the emotions is common with rock generally, as with other music, but being unconventional, it doesn't have to be about that, nor any of the ways I described Progressive Rock. Anyway, I'm rambling and forgot my point when I got a phone call that interrupted my thought stream process EpicLoganFail. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 15:36
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I don't have anything to directly add to this thread, but I feel the need to say something, so here is some experimental "filler" I like: The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles. The Ancient. Inna-Gadda-Da-Vida. Autobahn. Side Two of Tarkus. The White Album. Anything involving Tom Bombadil. (He deserves his own movie with a soundtrack by Yes with Jon Anderson, especially since everybody seems to want to cut him out of their films.)  ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: ProgEpics
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 15:37
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I appreciate prog rock that shows off their abilities, there are some times where im in the mood for more complex music rhythmically. In my opinion most prog bands don't write good hooks and do too much filler material. And I know GG does write short songs but its all complex in a rhythmic sense. I guess what im saying is odd time sigs and more rhythmically challenging music is seems to be most popular among progressive rock fans. I prefer a combination of both, to one side you have cheesy catchyness and to the other never ending instrumental sections that go nowhere. But you are right it is an opinion about what's good and whats not. I shouldn't have stated my opinion as fact.
------------- Come on you target for faraway laughter, Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine! |
Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 15:47
I agree with you. No one prog group is so called complex by my meaning. But prog genre self isn't complex without many prog groups, different one from another, old and new, creative and experimenting. I hope, that for long time in future. When we can to say, that prog is complex yet, than we can to say, that prog is dead.
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Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 16:04
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A LOT of people think that Koenjihyyakei is way too friggin confusing and complex... BUT when I first listened to Angherr Shisspa I CRIED. It screams the sort of emotions that many artists are unable to do. Art is subjective. Dark Side of the Moon sure sounds emotional and everything, but does it make me feel as much as some insanely complex music does sometimes? NO. It's all opinion. If you love your prog one way then take it that way. I think I'm perfectly happy listening to Negura's Om and The Bedlam in Goliath. If that's just noise to you, then that's your loss because I FIND SO MUCH JOY IN THE INFINITE LAYERS OF COMPLEXITY THAT EXIST WITHIN MUSIC. Anyone that can't absorb something like that makes me feel sorry for them.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 16:57
 ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 17:17
That was a sympathy 5 star vote Realistically the album is 5 songs too long to begin with, but it should have included the outtake instead. Would have been worthy of 4 stars then
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 17:29
I'm continually listening to an album such as Oblivion express Better land album. First I thought it wasn't as good as the debut album but now after half a dozen listens I'm rating it as an extremely good album. Tomorrows city and On thinking it over are excellent tracks. Great recording and a slightly better follow up to the very good debut. The rating of this album is a disgrace though. Then you look at Zappas 60s albums with double the ratings. I love Zappa but most of his pre 1972 are full of very amateur compositions imo. I guess it was the 60s and he was still learning though. But apart from Hot Rats, most of these early albums don't come close to 4 stars 
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 17:35
So you are saying you don't even think it's a 4* album? You aren't supposed to scale votes just because you think an album is rated too low, that's called "rating manipulation" |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 17:41
I remember this discussion: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68704&PID=4399668#4399668" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68704&PID=4399668#4399668 |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 17:43
Tull complex? Ian is a genius at producing melodies and compositions. Floyds never made upbeat material. They were never capable of it. Tull only went over the top on APP. I enjoy Floyd mostly from 1969-72. I love slow emotional prog too. One thing I don't like is overdramatic stuff though. As musicians and composers they were limited to the slower bluesy physchedlic stuff. DSOTM is probably their weakest album between 1971 and 1980 imo. When it comes to prog instrumentals, Any colour you like would have to be at the lower end of the scale compared to 100s of instrumentals from all prog bands of the 70s. Just a bland composition. Money is pretty bland too. Good song at first listen. I find great gig in the sky ridiculously overdramatic. I want to slap the lady to shuddup  |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 17:51
I somehow missed that one, but I definitely think more should be done to dissuade members from behavior like that. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 18:18
At least we now know he is using the epithet "doctor" as a transitive verb and not a noun.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 18:20
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Doctor Doctor, give me the news I've got a Bad Case of Giving Twos ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 18:22
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I am currently under heavy sedation ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 18:34
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 18:44
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My brain hurts, too! ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 18:48
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------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 22:36
I've played Larks in the car a few times. It's a good album of course but I could never give it the 5 star treatment it gets in here. I reckon there are plenty better releases back then. Plenty better composers. Heard the album plenty of times but there's just not much good composition in there apart from exiles and Saturday. Nice slow tracks. The Larks tracks have their moments, but if I want cool riff tracks I'd rather play some Sabbath. The last 7 minutes of the first Larks track is almost 7 minutes of silence imo. If there was some sort of melody it wouldn't be complete filler
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 01:18
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Posted By: Canterzeuhl
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 01:29
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I found the opening post complex and experimental and feel bewildered as to why I read on. But I enjoyed it.
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Posted By: JS19
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 03:54
Grrrrr look at my unpopular opinions! How cool and different am I guys, right? RIGHT? ------------- 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 04:46
A soft violin track resolves, gradually building tension until it explodes into a massive riff. Where exactly did you hear silence in there? Fripp's approach is to build unbelievable amounts of tension, usually exploding in a cathartic climax. Of course, to appreciate such an approach, one has to feel the music instead of merely looking for a conventional idea of melody and composition. Your comments on some tracks of DSOTM don't suggest that you are very much into the former. |
Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 05:11
<--- try it, please
p.s.:
Do you like "Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast"? |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 08:35
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Good evening, i would like to start an argument.... Is this the five minute version or the full half hour? Oh the full half hour thanks Right Do PA proggers have the right prog balance? er.... no. Good day. Wait a minute that was not half an hour oh yes it was oh no it wasnt oh yes it was oh no it wasnt oh yes it was oh no it wasnt oh yes it was oh no it wasnt oh yes it was oh no it wasnt ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 08:47
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No no no.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 08:48
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^^ See, that's just contradiction. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 09:00
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I think we have the proper imbalance.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 09:30
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Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 11:17
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 11:38
It would help if you would give some examples
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Posted By: AbrahamSapien
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 12:49
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I think DrProg's problem is that he doesn't hear the melodies when musicians are improvising ... just a lot of notes or "silence" or random noodling, is that so?;) No offnensem but you have to learn to listen to that stuff carefully. The difference between rock and jazz is that jazz takes energy if you want to listen to it (to make myself clear - I'm comparing jazz to prog since many prog bands improvise and think like jazz musicians while playing). Hope I didn't put this too complicated:) |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 13:45
Yes, it is. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 14:56
No no no! Against this we have the saying of the Apostle (2 Cor. 3:5), that "we are not sufficient to think anything of ourselves as of ourselves." (Sancti Thomae Aquinatis, Summa theologiae, Pars Prima, 23. De praedestinatione Dei, 5. Utrum merita sint causa, vel ratio praedestinationis, reprobationis, et electionis) |
Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 15:09
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Part of a balanced prog breakfast?
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Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 15:18
No no no! Yes.
Ye judge [prog] after the flesh; I judge no
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Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 17:23
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I didn't get OP. Cite examples. Compare one overrated album to an underated one. Be specific. That's what sunk this OP, it was so generalized it said nothing. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 25 2012 at 19:21
The OP wasn't exactly packed with genius. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 26 2012 at 15:15
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Hi,
Do we have the right balance? ... probably not ... a bit fat here! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: March 26 2012 at 20:01
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Like what I like lest I judge you unbalanced. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: March 26 2012 at 23:11
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Some randon thoughts: Burial's self-titled first album is the kind of album Brian Eno wishes he could make today. Burial's 2nd album UNTRUE is Vangelis' BLADE RUNNER for the next century. And yet it sounds nothing like Vangelis. Kuedo's SEVERANT sounds *just* like Vangelis, and is clearly a homage to BLADE RUNNER. Sasha & Digweed's NORTHERN EXPOSURE albums are pure Jean-Michel Jarre's OXYGENE - I mean that in the best possible way. Boards of Canada's MUSIC HAS THE RIGHT TO CHILDREN may not be "progressive," but it'll take you places that the Floyd and Tangerine Dream et al might recognize. I love prog, am a child of the 70s, and the music doing it for me these days is totally electronica (from Villalobos to James Holden's 005 to dubstep)... Rather strange. But there it is. |
Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: March 27 2012 at 00:05
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 27 2012 at 01:52
Couldn't it be possible that you consider the best composed albums lower than they deserve? Just a joke, musical appreciation (including composition), is very subjective, I wouldn't expect a Prog Metal and Neo Prog fans to have the same opinion about what is better composition.. This is very subjective.
From this phrase, I believe we have the same TASTE about music, I don't like most King Crimson or Gentle Giant, because I consider that this bands give to much priority to experimentation, I call them complex for the sake of complexity, because i believe that complexity is one of many musical characteristics that should flow naturally, not a goal to be reached..
Guys as Mussorgsky, Cui, Borodin, etc, were considered extremely complex during the Romantic era, because they broke with the standards of French Classical music, but today we consider them genius. As an anecdote in another artistic expression: Some modern painters as Matisse participated in the Salon d'automne of 1905 exposition, and in the middle of their paintings there was a statue by Donatello.One critic who hated their complexity wrote the "derogatory" phrase "Donatello parmi les fauves" (Donatello in the middle of the wild beasts), because he considered this painters savage beasts not worth being in the exposition, along with a Donatello sculpture....Today we consider Matisse, Seurat or Derain fabulous artists (They decided to call their style Fauvism as a mockery of the critic). What is too complex for you and me, can be perfect for others.
Most of us try to listen different artists and genres, there's always a space in my stereo for artists like Genesis, Kansas or Triumvirat (That I listened thousand of times), but I also try to listen as many new artists as possible, that's how I learned to love Fusion and other genres, i even rated an extremely complex album called "Factor Burzaco" with 5 stars, because I felt it had the touch of the genius. Iván
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 28 2012 at 14:11
And we have not added that to the definition of progressive music? ... we're definitly getting old and very regressive, now! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |