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John McLaughlin vs Allan Holdsworth

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86547
Printed Date: September 15 2014 at 05:09
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Topic: John McLaughlin vs Allan Holdsworth
Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Subject: John McLaughlin vs Allan Holdsworth
Date Posted: April 28 2012 at 23:50
Both are fantastic guitarists. My vote goes to the Mahavishnu man.

Or








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Replies:
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 00:40
John, but mainly for his playing with Miles Davis and thems all

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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 01:26
both are great. but have to give McLaughlin the credit, he was groundbreaking, a major force in creating the JRF
genre.


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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 02:00
Close, but Holdy for me.

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Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 07:09
McLaughlin, for his work in Mahavishnu Orchestra.

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Posted By: Lynx33
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 07:25
The Shakti Man.

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Posted By: PabstRibbon
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 08:22
Holdsworth is one of my favourite player. 


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 09:47
Two astonishing players, but I just prefer Holdsworth.

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I have many faults. Being wrong is not one of them.


Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 10:02
Originally posted by Hercules

Two astonishing players, but I just prefer Holdsworth.

Precisely!!!


Posted By: colorofmoney91
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 10:39
I prefer Holdsworth. His playing sounds more "musical" to me, if that makes any sense.

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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 10:52
John McLaughlin


Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 11:13
Both are awesome.

I'll go for McLaughlin since his work with Shakti has stunned me completely.




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Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 11:33
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil

John, but mainly for his playing with Miles Davis and thems all

As much as I love Mahavishnu, his work with Miles and Shakti can't be ignored. I love his stuff on In A Silent Way and A Tribute To Jack just as much as Birds, Visions, Inner Mounting Flame, etc. I've just recently delved into the Shakti discography and all I can say is that is it truly other worldly. Just really relaxing, spiritual music - phenomenal.


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Posted By: Capt Fongsby
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 11:49
I absolutely love his playing with Soft Machine, Gong, UK and Bruford, so my vote goes to Holdsworth.

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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 12:29
McLaughlin. His work with Al DiMeola and Paco DeLucia is awesome. Friday Night in San Francisco is a jazz favorite of mine.

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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 13:39
Two of the absolute best.  I think Holdsworth has the better technique, the most identifiable style, the more complex musical tonalities, but his adherence to electric and synthetic abstractions makes a lot of his music sound the same.  McLalughlin is more conventional but also more flexible in what he plays - he has offered us a wider diversity of sounds and styles.  I will choose based on the most recent albums I have purchased by these two giants: McLauhglin's Que Allegria is mostly acoustic.  The music runs from contemplative to high energy, from straight jazz to flamenco, and he is one of the few that can convincingly wail on an acoustic.  I like this album a lot.  On the other hand, Holdsworth's Sixteen Men of Tain has proven a disappointment.  I really cannot tell one track from the other, most of what he does on it he has done countless times before and for once I will accuse him of merely noodling.  The vote goes to St. John.

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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 15:31
I think DiMeola could be holding his ground in this poll as well. 
I'd prolly vote for him.


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Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 16:52
McLaughlin


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 17:14
Actually, they are both gods, because they are both Yorkshiremen!

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I have many faults. Being wrong is not one of them.


Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 22:16
Originally posted by Progosopher

Two of the absolute best.  I think Holdsworth has the better technique, the most identifiable style, the more complex musical tonalities, but his adherence to electric and synthetic abstractions makes a lot of his music sound the same.  McLalughlin is more conventional but also more flexible in what he plays - he has offered us a wider diversity of sounds and styles.  I will choose based on the most recent albums I have purchased by these two giants: McLauhglin's Que Allegria is mostly acoustic.  The music runs from contemplative to high energy, from straight jazz to flamenco, and he is one of the few that can convincingly wail on an acoustic.  I like this album a lot.  On the other hand, Holdsworth's Sixteen Men of Tain has proven a disappointment.  I really cannot tell one track from the other, most of what he does on it he has done countless times before and for once I will accuse him of merely noodling.  The vote goes to St. John.

Clap Great post.


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Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 22:19
Originally posted by yanch

Originally posted by Hercules

Two astonishing players, but I just prefer Holdsworth.

Precisely!!!
Indeed...


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Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 22:38
Originally posted by Horizons

I think DiMeola could be holding his ground in this poll as well. 
I'd prolly vote for him.

I was going to add him and maybe even Carlos Santana, but I thought it would be interesting just to see the results for two guitarists, especially theses ones for how celebrated and influential they are. By the way, who did you vote for?


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Posted By: spknoevl
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 07:50
2 of the greatest guitarists who ever strapped on the instrument.  Holdsy is absolutely my favorite guitarist - a guy that completely developed a unique style and has the holy trifactor of stunning technique,  a great sound and an advanced harmonic vocabulary.  And yet, one could make the same argument for Johnny Mac.  I have pretty much everything these guys have ever recorded.  Another poll I'm simply not voting in.  I expect JM to win since he's the better known of the two.

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Posted By: spknoevl
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 07:52
DiMeola might have been interesting as his technique is on par with AH and JM, however I don't feel he's nearly the groundsbreaking musician they are.   Santana?  I love early Santana, when he had some fire in his playing, but he's simply not on the same level as these guys, either harmonically or technique-wise.  How about John Scofield?  Probably not all that well known in prog circles, but another harmonically gifted player with a unique voice and one who has influenced a generation of jazz guitarists.

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The notes are just an interesting way to get from one silence to the next - Mick Gooderick


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 08:08
Mahavishnu Man

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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 09:46
Originally posted by HolyMoly

Mahavishnu Man


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Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 15:47
Originally posted by spknoevl

DiMeola might have been interesting as his technique is on par with AH and JM, however I don't feel he's nearly the groundsbreaking musician they are.   Santana?  I love early Santana, when he had some fire in his playing, but he's simply not on the same level as these guys, either harmonically or technique-wise.  How about John Scofield?  Probably not all that well known in prog circles, but another harmonically gifted player with a unique voice and one who has influenced a generation of jazz guitarists.

I've heard a bit of John Scofield from his work with other musicians such as Miles, Herbie, etc. I think he is an amazing guitarist with a real knack for originality and like you said, chord theory/knowledge. He probably got a lot of influence  from Holdsworth and vice versa. I really like Santana, especially on the album where he collaborated with John. The Coltrane cover is excellent - A Love Supreme.


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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 18:33
Originally posted by Fox On The Rocks

Originally posted by Horizons

I think DiMeola could be holding his ground in this poll as well. 
I'd prolly vote for him.

I was going to add him and maybe even Carlos Santana, but I thought it would be interesting just to see the results for two guitarists, especially theses ones for how celebrated and influential they are. By the way, who did you vote for?
If you're going to add a name you should consider Shawn Lane.


Posted By: faviovilla
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 16:00
Originally posted by Progosopher

Two of the absolute best.  I think Holdsworth has the better technique, the most identifiable style, the more complex musical tonalities, but his adherence to electric and synthetic abstractions makes a lot of his music sound the same.  McLalughlin is more conventional but also more flexible in what he plays - he has offered us a wider diversity of sounds and styles.  I will choose based on the most recent albums I have purchased by these two giants: McLauhglin's Que Allegria is mostly acoustic.  The music runs from contemplative to high energy, from straight jazz to flamenco, and he is one of the few that can convincingly wail on an acoustic.  I like this album a lot.  On the other hand, Holdsworth's Sixteen Men of Tain has proven a disappointment.  I really cannot tell one track from the other, most of what he does on it he has done countless times before and for once I will accuse him of merely noodling.  The vote goes to St. John.

actually each one is the best in their own; JM on Alternate picking and holdsworth on legato
they both are Coltrane heirs but in diferent ways; you can listen to Sheets of sound on Mclaughlins Playing but you will hear the modal stuff heard in my favorite things, so thouse are very diferent but comes from the same


Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 16:13
Mack Laughing


Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 16:39
Holdsworth a bit boring
McLaughlin a bit annoying
Not much of a fan of fusion now. Compositions are a mess usually and there's too many solos. I don't really like violin which is not classical style either
Canterbury fusion and zeuhl is cool though. Has some great melody and colour

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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.


Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 16:46
Tough choice...I like them both for different reasons...I find McLaughlin's soloing more fiery & emotional while Holdsworth's is just drop dead unbelievable, he has to have the most gifted solo technique of any player out there.  Got to meet Holdsworth in '85 at a promo performance he gave at Manhattan Beach Music in LA...he was incredibly nice and humble (as most of the great prog musicians are) so he gets my vote Wink

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I'm using the chicken to measure it.


Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 16:49
I went with Holdsworth because gazuese and million dollar legs are more enjoyable than Mahavishnu

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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.


Posted By: Floyd Steely
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 21:43
Originally posted by Capt Fongsby

I absolutely love his playing with Soft Machine, Gong, UK and Bruford, so my vote goes to Holdsworth.


My favorite Soft Machine and Gong albums are the ones he played on, and that turns out to be no coincidence at all. I also loved his playing on "Metal Fatigue" and other later solo albums.

McLaughlin is undoubtedly great, but I haven't found much interest in his post-Mahavishnu recordings.


Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 21:52
Both are massive talents, John has a high Everest while Alan has the mountain range! Holdsworth for Gazeuse specifically as well as his Ponty work.

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Posted By: faviovilla
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 22:09
Try listening to bello horizonte, 1981, a warm show of the posibilities what a guitar can have, you might dont like it at first, but there are such beaty in his lines


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 22:42
There should be a both button on this one.
I went with John because the first 2 Mahavishnu lp's knocked me out when I first heard them and still do to this day.

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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: October 25 2013 at 09:18
Holdsworth every time, I can't stand John McLaughlin.

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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg


Posted By: JeanFrame
Date Posted: October 25 2013 at 09:42
McLaughlin for me. Then again, it's purely personal taste and not a vote against another great guitarist.


Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: October 26 2013 at 05:37
Both brilliant guitarists for me. Just wondering, is one more technically proficient than the other (I can't pick)?


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 26 2013 at 05:54
Originally posted by tszirmay

Both are massive talents, John has a high Everest while Alan has the mountain range! Holdsworth for Gazeuse specifically as well as his Ponty work.
Couldn't have said it better myself


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: October 26 2013 at 11:05
Hi,
 
John for sure ... way more intuitive and fun to listen to. I find Allan, a bit too technical for my tastes. Sort of like a graduate school player ... he's better and more technical than anyone!


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Posted By: faviovilla
Date Posted: October 26 2013 at 11:50
While john mclaughlin has been always changing his musical horizons; creating jazz rock with miles and , indian music with shakti and in his own with rock, taking flamenco fusion to a higher level and ewith the forth dimension mixing indian with new milenium jazz feel, allan has locked. Him self to his own great stile, without making any change, so you could say that allans biggestmistake is his lack of versatility


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: October 26 2013 at 12:11
Interesting comparison, as their guitar styles are rather divergent..... McLaughlin is more traditional, with an amazing command of technique, while Holdsworth charted out a new territory, approaching the guitar more as a solo instrument akin to a saxophone.  McLaughlin has a better command of chord vocabulary IMO.  

I love both of them, but voted for McLaughlin as my favorite of the two.  Check him out in this clip....amazing! 

[TUBE]x6sxvext9c8[/TUBE]


Posted By: faviovilla
Date Posted: October 26 2013 at 12:30
But the firts thing that makes them diferent is each one's technic, one plays only alternate pucking while the other only legato, to very diferent aproaches with each own posibilities


Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: October 26 2013 at 14:59
This is the first poll where my answer would be 50-50.  Both players
were very influential in my life.  I remember hearing both as a teenager.
The early M.O. writing of McLaughlin was very groundbreaking.  I don't
think anyone else in rock or jazz was playing those kinds of modes.
I think he probably got more conservative as a writer the later he went,
but I don't know a lot of his later work. 

I'm not going to vote on this one.




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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: October 26 2013 at 15:20
John for the explosive, edgy side of his playing.

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Posted By: HannesHolmqvist
Date Posted: October 26 2013 at 15:52
John's great, definitely one I like a lot, but Allan...  What he does, I can't even begin to describe. Sometimes it feels like pure magic.


Posted By: Genital Giant
Date Posted: January 18 2014 at 02:57
John McLaughlin is amazing and groundbreaking but Allan Holdsworth is the most ridiculous guitar player that's ever lived. There is stuff he plays that no other guitarist can really touch, and I don't mean just from the fluidity of his technique, but also his note selection and use of harmony.

The one big problem for Holdsworth in terms of acceptance and recognition is his concept of harmony is so advanced that most people can't actually hear what he's doing, it goes over a lot of people's heads.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 21 2014 at 02:47
Allan Holdsworth


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 21 2014 at 03:24
Allan invented a new way of playing an instrument, and eventually a new form of music.  The problem is, so did John  LOL .

Insidious comparison.



Posted By: schizoidman
Date Posted: January 21 2014 at 12:32
John McLaughlin.

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Making the useless useful 24/7.


Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: January 21 2014 at 12:35
I prefer McLaughlin's Indian-influenced bends and subdivisions.


Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: January 21 2014 at 16:09
Originally posted by Horizons

I think DiMeola could be holding his ground in this poll as well. 
I'd prolly vote for him.

Yes I agree with you.


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But that's not right - oh no, what's the story? There's you and there's me.
That can't be right.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 21 2014 at 19:01
Yep, close.  I'm giving it up for Allan, particularly since he's behind it the poll at the moment.



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Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: January 22 2014 at 02:46
Allan is the greatest guitarist ever.

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"It's music, and I like it" - Miles Davis on Sketches of Spain



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