Cheesy Prog is....??
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Topic: Cheesy Prog is....??
Posted By: cstack3
Subject: Cheesy Prog is....??
Date Posted: July 12 2012 at 23:09
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In a few recent threads (Dio and Glass Hammer), there are numerous references to "cheesy prog." I think I understand what is implied, but am not sure....what, exactly, is "cheesy prog"? A new subcategory perhaps? And, what is YOUR favorite cheesy-prog band??
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Replies:
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: July 12 2012 at 23:12
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Not sure if kidding.. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: July 12 2012 at 23:13
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It means it's hard to take seriously. ------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: July 12 2012 at 23:20
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Gallifrey wrote:Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: July 12 2012 at 23:21
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I think the only truluy cheesey/pretentious Prog band I've heard is ELP. Still like em, though. ------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow"> The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 12 2012 at 23:29
Hmmm...I'd agree with that! Emerson wrestling with a Hammond organ onstage, plunging a dagger into the keyboard with great drama, would seem to fit the bill. However, many of the greats seemed to wallow in a sea of cheese! Sir Richard Wakeman? This photo reeks of prog cheesiness!  |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 12 2012 at 23:41
Something like this. Trite, an insufficiently simplistic or clique-ridden treatment of a serious topic, etc. "Cheesy" music does exist, but it's my theory that the word "cheesy" is often used by people to describe something that is profound beyond their understanding, and thus considered by them to be unrealistic, overblown, pretentious, or simplistic. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 00:55
Someone say...cheese?  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 00:58
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When I think of cheesy, over the top theatrics don't come to mind. I would sooner associate cheesiness with Neal Morse's vocal delivery, or something like that ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: silveraindrop75
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 01:00
| whenever a prog band releases a hit single, it's usually cheesy. why sell out when you can sell cheese? |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 01:42
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Cheesey means a bit 'over ripe' to my thinking. So most great symphonic prog is 'cheesey'. Also most of it is pretentious and pompous. ''Progtastic'' is the word I would use.
The problem with prog is that you can enjoy it perfectly well on a superficial level but many would prefer to put great meaning to what they listen to. So Tarkus is something that is undeniably cheesey and will always divide opinion. To me the very fact that it divides opinion makes it better anyway so I don't see cheesey as a criticism.
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 02:07
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I find punchy synthesizers and 80's midi patches cheesy. Conventional resolution to major chords. Platitudes are cheesy. Just to name a few.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 02:10
I would call this photo a more classic version of the P word. This here be cheesy.  ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 04:17
| Dream Theater is pretty sticky. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 05:08
| It's about putting mainstream Beegee-like pop sillyness into progressive rock, with Kansas being one of the best examples. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 05:17
Yeah, I'd have to agree with that! Even worse....I attended the Dream Theater show in Chicago a few years back. Opening for DT were "Zappa Plays Zappa," which is sublime and not to be missed....."Scale the Summit," an instrumental, guitar-prog band from Texas that channels Fripp's gamelan music.... .....and THIS mess, "Big Elf"!! Music for raging headaches! I submit this as proof positive of the existence of prog cheese: |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 05:35
There is a knive made for cutting Progressive Cheese : Ergo Progressive Cheese exist ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 06:43
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An example of 'cheesy' prog, imo, would be 'Surrounded' by Dream Theater. I actually really like that song, but hey.. I don't regard over the top music as 'cheesy' To me the term has always meant music that overplays the sentimental, so it by no means refers to just prog rock. Any musical genre can fall victim to cheese. Indeed, in the world of power ballads, the more cheese, the better..so it seems. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 06:50
 But yeah, on a more serious note, I guess it refers to prog that is overblown, somewhat plastic and by the numbers so to speak. I am not naming names here, because I won't pull this thread into the gutter. I will say this though, a lot of the modern production values that now seem tattooed onto the genre itself, to me at least, unwillingly maybe - stands for most of the cheese this style of music has to offer. The lacking warmth and "noise" of the production literally lures cheese into the music. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 07:11
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Ayreon are the kings of cheese. And no, cheesiness is not good in music.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 07:40
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Not only modern "prog metal" ballads are cheesie, we also got some cheese dripping Anderson song along the way. Infact i was begging my record dealer, to get me the first edition vinyl, instead of the second edition he had on stock. Just because i wanted the otherwise great album, not to start with this. http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=8938" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=8938 I was crazy about Yes/Anderson, back then, but this and a few other tracks was too slimy. Nowadays i generally find Yes to be a bit cheesie, but still like to listen to them, now and then.
------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 09:18
| Hmm... I think of anything cheesy as being commercialized. Frank Zappa expounds upon the term cheese inside one of his album jackets. I can't remember which album, You Are What You Is maybe. It's been a long time since I read it, but it still guides my interpretation of the word. |
Posted By: AlexDOM
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 09:42
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Return of the Giant Hogweed by Genesis comes to my mind. It's such a fun song
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 09:46
But not "cheesy" ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 10:53
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I think of cheesy as being way over the top. Rick Wakeman performing an ice show of King Arthur comes to mind as the cheesiest of cheesy prog.
------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 11:21
A little earlier in his discography, but do you remember Suzy Creamcheese? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: bb1319
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 11:34
Suzy Creamcheese, this is your conscience speaking. ------------- "I'd say that what we hear is the quality of our listening." -Robert Fripp |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 11:37
Another Day by the same band. Your Own Special Way...even Mad Mad Moon to some extent. I think Collins's rendition is the culprit in both cases. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 11:54
Agreed. "Your Own Special Way" by Genesis on W&W always comes to my mind as cloyingly sweet cheese. This definition of "cheesy" seems to nail it down for me: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheesy" rel="nofollow - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheesy "This is an important word and nobody has it right yet. What it means is: Trying too hard, unsubtle, and inauthentic. Specifically that which is unsubtle or inauthentic in its way of trying to elicit a certain response from a viewer, listener, audience, etc. Celine Dion is cheesy because her lyrics, timbre, key changes, and swelling orchestral accompaniment telegraph 'I want you to be moved' instead of moving you." |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 12:11
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 12:13
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I used the word "cheesy" in college to describe guys who hit on girls all the time. For music that I consider a bit embarrassing for its ingratiating manner with an absence of irony, I use the word "corny".
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 12:39
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Funny how we all have such different perceptions.
To me cheesy has never had anything to do with music being overblown or pretentious.
That someone says that ELP, Wakeman or Genesis Return of The Giant Hogweed is cheesy is completely against my perception of the term.
I have always associated the term to pseudo-prog which has a lot of commercial and pop leanings, perfect examples being the poppiest songs in Neal Morse's Lifeline such as The Way Home, God's Love and Children Of The Chosen (and having nothing to do with the religious lyrics, I mean the musical style).
Or the poppiest songs of Moon Safari (such as The Gods of Flowers Past in Blomljud which even with a lenght of nearly 10 min it's clearly based on pop chord progressions and melodies but with prog arrangement).
Ayreon indeed have a few cheesy ones.
In other words songs which are basically pop songs and then arranged into a proggy fashion by adding a couple of time breaks here and there, a gilmouresque solo, the instrumentation etc.
Although the cheesiest prog band must surely be Bunchacheeze
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 12:55
TURN IT OFF!! TURN IT OFF!! Indeed, that is EXACTLY what I was getting at!! Dripping with...melted cheese! Some prog compositions have deliberate humor/excess worked into the composition, one of my favorites being "Hocus Pocus" by Focus! They serve up some real prog-gouda....the goofy looks, whistles, and yodels of TVL are interspersed with some blazing fusion guitar lead by Jan Akermann, making for an amazingly fun & legit experience!! Ian Anderson and Tull also do the cheese frequently & deliberately (Did anyone else see the "War Child" tour, with the animal-themed costumes? Jaw-dropping, but NOT cheese!!). Excess can be a valuable tool in composition, but as Big Elf demonstrates, playing two distorted Mellotrons at once does not constitute fine dining!! Great thread by the way, thanks for contributing!! What would be King Crimson's cheesiest moment? "Moon Child" comes to mind.... Wakeman certainly seems to be the Cheese King on this thread! "King Arthur" set to ice....ugh!
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:10
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:30
I love Bif Elf haha ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:32
I disagree. I actually prefer this lack of warmth. The overproduction is good, if you are able to have other albums with raw production. It's about picking and choosing in my opinion.
I prefer more overproduced stuff so that when you go to see it live it has the warm raw feeling. I loooove noise in production. I want lots of noise. And when prog get's cheesy it can kick ass. Think of the last track from Banco's Io Soto album. Cheesy as hell. Amazing as hell and heaven. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:55
Moonchild isn't cheesy at all, it's dreamy and contemplative. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:56
Very Funny. Where can I get me one?
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Posted By: altaeria
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:59
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For me-- music is like pizza. The media and the general public may insist that Alt Rock and Punk is "cool"... but they can't convince me that a breadstick and a jar of tomato sauce is a quality pizza.  |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 14:02
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Ha- Alt rock has way more cheese. As well as punk in my opinion.
Really, that kind of music is just cheese and no tomato sauce on top of a cardboard crust. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 16:36
Sorry, not to offend! Cheesy prog does have its adherents....I've seen Big Elf twice now, and give them credit for hard work, but....the top-hat, two Mellotrons etc. are a bit much for my own tastes. Then, there is cheese in prog instrumentation, such as this "unique" bass thing played by Chris Squire. When he dragged this onstage during the concert for GFTO, my buddies and I just started to laugh! It was a real "Spinal Tap" scene!  |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 16:38
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:-D I wasn't offended. Just saying I love them. I understand why people wouldn't like it haha. THAT BASS THOUGH.... GEEEEEEEEEZ ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 16:39
Maybe he acutally needs it to reproduce their studio sound on stage. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 16:51
There's quite a bit about it in this forum: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f28/chris-squires-3-neck-bass-guitar-645112/" rel="nofollow - http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f28/chris-squires-3-neck-bass-guitar-645112/ Someone said he used it only on "Awaken," I don't remember him having it onstage for very long. The man can play a bass made out of cheddar for all I care, he IS amazing! However, seeing him haul that thing out was one of those "What the f*** is THAT??" moments in prog history!!
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: July 13 2012 at 17:15
That would be a cheesy prog instrument  ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: The Mystical
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 05:55
| Cheesy doesn't mean bad. |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 06:13
I remember having always seen Chris use the triple neck for Awaken, even in modern shows. On DVD you can see him in Keys To Ascension and Live From The House Of Blues, or here
For sure there is an element of show but he does use the 3 necks for clearly different sounds during the song. His current japanese replica has a fretless at the bottom (it has the fret positions marked so in pictures it may look like fretted, same as the original Wal in this picture you posted which looks fretted as well).
Chris uses the fretless for the opening section, the guitar for the atmospheric part where Jon plays the harp and the middle neck fretted bass for the rest, so I see nothing ridiculous or overblown in that.
A keyboardist can play 3 or more keyboards and it's completely normal, Howe in songs such as And You And I plays the electric hanging on his shoulders and the acoustic and the steel on their stands. Also perfectly respectable I think.
A triple neck is just another way of having those different sound possibilities at hand, the problem is that it's too heavy to play it live for much longer than something like Awaken (even if the replica is much lighter than the original Wal).
Now, THIS is ridiculous
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 06:20
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On a related question if prog were a cheese, what cheese would it be?
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 06:32
Camembert (Electrique of course)
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 08:36
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 08:53
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Cheesy prog= The top 10 PA albums?
-------------  
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Posted By: Argonaught
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 11:12
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Perhaps the word 'cheesy' is used a tad too broadly in this discussion. I always thought that cheesy was near-synonymous with the word 'kitsch' that was popular earlier, maybe 20-30 years ago. Both mean, or so I thought, 'An unrefined, or purposefully dumbed-down imitation that lacks originality and is designed to appeal to less discerning tastes'. Risking to provoke a firestorm: Asia?
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 11:45
Why firestorm? It is cheesy.
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 12:01
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^The continent or the band?
------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 12:38
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^ Firestorms are cheesy perhaps...? ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 12:47
NO U! Ayreon's awesome, k? -------------   
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 16:53
Thank you for this! Asia is an interesting case study....I was THRILLED when I first heard about the band, as I am a fan of Wetton and Howe especially, appreciative of Palmer and unfamiliar with Downes. Their first LP had some strong material, and the first tour included a bit of "ELP Cheese" (Palmer's revolving drum kit, which he rides whilst banging a large bell over his head with a ribbon held in his teeth!). I don't consider Asia to be as "cheesy" as they could be, as the artistic integrity was there...they truly did aspire to create a unique, genuine prog sound, and did this very successfully. I was able to tolerate the cheese & would label them as a "very mild prog cheese," perhaps Munster.... However, I'm unfamiliar with later Asia material, so perhaps the cheese got stronger with age? My own definition of "cheesy prog" would include corny stage gimmicks, outlandish stage costumers ("The Lamb" being pardoned of the cheese label of course!), and just "trying too hard to be prog." One industry magazine a few years back compared the latest prog to sounding like "music that you would hear when entering the grounds of a Renaissance festival" and I really had to agree with that, at least as far as some of the bands I've heard recently. You know prog cheese when you smell it! The latest incarnations of Yes are starting to have a rather cheesy aroma to them.... |
Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 16:56
NOPE ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 18:21
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I thought I knew what cheesy was until I read this thread. I didn't think prog could be cheesy, actually. To me, that word is best represented by an autrocity named Demis Roussos, who contaminated the sound waves in the early seventies. I hope that most of you here haven't heard of him.  I'm not going to provide a link to YT since I don't approve of torture in any form or shape. |
Posted By: Eria Tarka
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 18:23
Now I don't have to write that! |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 18:37
True, it can be rather gouda, in fact
------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Argonaught
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 21:02
The asteroid
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 14 2012 at 23:57
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Daevid Allen is a master cheese-maker! Check out this bit of "Gong"....amazing!! How did they manage to rip such excellent music wearing those hats?? I'm not sure if this truly qualifies as "cheesy prog" or not, perhaps just damn strange prog?? |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: July 15 2012 at 00:05
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Not cheesy at all, just quirky. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 15 2012 at 05:06
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Bless-ed are the cheesemakers...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Ytse_Jam
Date Posted: July 15 2012 at 15:06
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This is cheesy  (not properly prog though..)
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: July 15 2012 at 19:41
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Oops ... wrong thread?
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Posted By: burgersoft777
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 06:26
| Gong are cheesy on two levels, the stage act, and the lyrics. Electric Cheese maybe, but cheese all the same. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 10:26
Now, this is cheese, and of the smelly kind Of course this also qualifies It only takes a couple of seconds for a roadie to handle a guitar, instead of carrying a 10 or 15 Kgms tri-head guitar during 2 hours Iván
------------- 
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 11:13
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I usually use the word "cheese" or "cheesy" to describe something that sounds ridiculous to me, or just silly (which doesn't necessarily mean I don't like it........though it generally has a bad connotation with me). However, it's obvious that there are quite a few different interpretations of this, and we can't even agree on whether it is a good or bad thing. So, like most everything else with musical taste and reviews, it's a purely subjective term, even its meaning. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 11:50
Well, as has been mentioned, these guitars are normally used for one song( as in this case) and is the quickest method to change. Quicker than any roadie, unless he is The Flash. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 12:38
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Equally, it's absurd and uncomfortable to play, you can't even grab the center guitar properly This is also cheesy:  Terrible -------------
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 14:09
Admittedly the Wal tripple neck was originally commisioned and purchased by Rick Wakeman for his band for the Journey To The Center Of The Earth tour and his motives were certainly not musical but just to have something to show-off in his show which had never been seen on a prog stage before.
His bassist at the time was Roger Newell but the thing belonged to Rick. When Rick returned to Yes for GFTO he took the tripple neck with him and handed it to Chris, eventually gave it to him and eventually Chris got his replica and gave the original on permanent loan to Hard Rock Cafe where it stands now in New York.
But it is not less true that at least Chris gave it a meaningful musical use in the Awaken live performances.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 14:13
Chris plays it succesfully so you are obviously wrong. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 16:45
The center neck (normal fretted bass) is the one played for most of the song, I don't see Chris having any problem with it.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 00:24
EXTREMELY cheesy!! What on EARTH were they thinking of?? ELP were recognized as brilliant & talented (if somewhat cheesy) musicians, but sex symbols?? Imagine Greg Lake in an outfit like that today!! Ugh!!
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 01:17
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 09:43
Chris is an exception, he's 1.95 meters (6.4 feet) and have long arms, but the normal player won't have the chance to reach it. I still believe it's some sort of exhibitionism
   Iván
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 09:55
Maybe it is...sometimes...I don't happen to think so, but there you go. Even if it is...can't say I care. Rush used double necks on quite a few old songs. Totally practical. Alex still does use a double neck on Xanadu. Don't think he is posing at his age. but we disagree, as usual, that's ok too. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 09:58
The double neck was interesting,it can be played easily by a talented musician (Look at Mike Rutherford). Iván -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 10:01
Had forgotten about Rutherford. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: JS19
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 10:09
This masterful pun has not gone unnoticed. ------------- 
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 10:34
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There are other ways of fitting more strings than adding necks to an increasingly bulky instrument.
Pat Metheny's 42-string Pikasso guitar is actually quite compact.
In the link a few words by its luthier Linda Manzer.
  http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2009/Jul/Builder_Profile_Linda_Manzer.aspx?Page=2" rel="nofollow - http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2009/Jul/Builder_Profile_Linda_Manzer.aspx?Page=2
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 10:59
Beautiful and comfortable design. Still...Does somebody need 48 strings in one song? -------------
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 12:15
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This is John Paul Jones playing his multi-neck acoustic, built by Andy Manson in the UK....mandolin, mando-cello and bass mandolin I think!! Here's more on this instrument, Andy Manson is the brother of the chap who built my own fretless bass (in my avatar), Hugh Manson. http://www.led-zeppelin.org/joomla/studio-and-live-gear/1437" rel="nofollow - http://www.led-zeppelin.org/joomla/studio-and-live-gear/1437
I don't think these multi-neck things are cheesy at all if they are used in an artistically honest manner & augment the music onstage. However, there are many examples of "cheesy guitars" out there, more to follow!
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 14:40
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Other genres are probably more guilty of the "cheese" label than prog is. Here's Rick Nielsen of Cheap Trick, displaying a rather excessive and quite cheesy stage axe! I think this one ended up stolen. Oh well. Made by Hamer, who make some damn nice guitars!  |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 16:04
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I have always equated Cheesiness - with over-sentimentality - Thus I consider that ONLY ballads can be considered "True" cheese, wimmin of course love cheese (well most of em anyway) - Carpenters = Cheese , Bee-gees = Cheese, in fact most pop ballads = cheese. "Your own special way" is definately on the thin end of the WEDGE... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 17:03
Well, only somebody wanting to play music like this.
Note that he frequently uses the "normal" 6-string guitar neck (tapping it only with his left hand) for playing the background keyboard-like sound, it acts as a controller for his Synclavier (perhaps nowadays it's a more modern sampler).
Metheny is not a showman and he is not into show-off b*st, he is a true musician, he has his experimental side and he can toy with things like this guitar, his Orchestrion or his Synclavier Roland guitar controller, but it's always with the purpose of stretching his musical boundaries.
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 17:23
Not necessarily ballads IMO, but also melodies which are blatantly pop based, for example take a chord progression & melody which is ABBA-like and arrange it into prog fashion by making a few sig changes, breaks and prog instrumentation. Even when you keep it as a mid-fast tempo and rather energetic song, the result will be cheesy prog.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 22:28
To be honest, I like that one, it looks very simple, apparently seems that he controls all the strings with only one necck, great music, even when it's not my cup of tea. Iván -------------
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 00:28
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Thanks for the Pat Matheny videos! He shows that, despite its odd looks, the instrument is very playable and capable of producing some beautiful music! On the other hand, THIS thing would peg the cheese-meter! Not sure if this is real or a joke, but I could see some heavy metal act dragging this out for laughs....cheeee-sy! Oh, wait a minute, it's ART!! http://my.opera.com/stratstrangler/blog/index.dml/tag/12-neck%20Strat" rel="nofollow - http://my.opera.com/stratstrangler/blog/index.dml/tag/12-neck%20Strat  |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 03:17
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^ Oh, my god. I can't even look at it.
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 10:18
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Not sure what an instrument's appearance has to do with cheesiness. If someone can actually play a piece of cheese and make decent music out of it, that's another thing.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 10:29
To be honest, I like that one, it looks very simple, apparently seems that he controls all the strings with only one necck, great music, even when it's not my cup of tea.
Iván [/QUOTE]
I can only commiserate the poor roadie who has to re-string and tune the damn thing every few shows
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Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 11:08
The main problem with this instrument isn't that it has 42-strings but rather that it's actually rather limited in sound. You can't chord with it and the main guitar neck might as well be a bass because all Metheny was doing with it was playing bass lines. All in all, a pretty useless instrument. Metheny's Into the Dream debuted this instrument, but it seems that this is the only kind of music he can make with it which gives every "new" piece he writes for it the same kind of feeling and sound.
------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 13:00
This is a design by Yoshiniko Satoh, but not tthe only prototype:   and  All are playable but knowing nobody sane would want them, he created a musseum. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 13:13
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I wonder, no one posted this, yet : ------------- http://theprogressiveweb.blogspot.de" rel="nofollow - Visit me in Second Life to talk about music. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 17:31
It doesn't, really, except if the musician goes overboard with the instrument and it becomes a gimmick rather than a vehicle for musical expression. John McLaughin and Mike Rutherford were early pioneers of the double-neck instrument, and they showed that, despite its unusual looks, the instruments could evoke powerful music and emotion! On the other hand, the multi-neck CAN be used to evoke cheesy humor! Here's one of my favorites, Derreck Smalls, showing off his rather ridiculous (but gorgeous) double-neck BC Rich bass with the Kings of Cheese, Spinal Tap! I played "Big Bottom" onstage with one of my bands, it was fantastic to have multiple bassists going at it! |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 19 2012 at 21:38
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Hmmm....some cheesy Yes keyboards, anyone? "Forty-plus years down the road, Yes' members still boast chops that can inspire jealousy in many a musician. Even weak points in Wednesday's show, particularly an instrumental passage in the latter half of the "Fly from Here" suite featuring cheesy keyboard tones and augmented by flashing rainbow lights, were imbued with technically precise musicianship." http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/entertainment-general/index.ssf/2012/07/yes_assaults_sands_event_cente.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/entertainment-general/index.ssf/2012/07/yes_assaults_sands_event_cente.html |
Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: July 19 2012 at 22:13
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I consider cheese to be the musical equivalent of emoting.
Asia was mentioned earlier, which is who I immediately thought of. The common component is Geoff Downes, and nothing demonstrated fermented curd more than the John Payne-era days.
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