Ignored guitarists
Printed From: Progarchives.com
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=88670
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Topic: Ignored guitarists
Posted By: Hercules
Subject: Ignored guitarists
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 12:15
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Six of my favourite guitarists from six of my favourite bands - but they rarely get mentioned on here.
Pick your favourite. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Replies:
Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 12:26
Probably the IQ guy, but I've never really been terribly impressed by IQ, or most Neo Prog for that matter. Mike Holmes is still a great guitarist though, in his own right. 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 12:56
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Mike Holmes
when I saw IQ perform Subterranea 12 years ago I spent most of the time watching Holmes. One of those guitarists that makes it look easy
best moments
Through The Corridors - great fret work
The Magic Roundabout - Dave Gilmour eat your heart out!
The Last Human Gateway (middle section) - version on The Lost Attic is stunning. Never loses sight of the melody
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 12:57
I maintain that "Neo-prog" is not really a genre in its own right, despite it being listed as such on here. It's just a continuation of symphonic prog by bands that started after the first wave died. Stylistically, there's no difference. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Fox On The Rocks wrote:Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 13:20
| John Lees, though I ignore all those guitarists too |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 13:46
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Going with Rogers here. He had such a big hand in developing that special groove the Earthband fuelled in the 70s. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 13:47
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 13:49
Looking at the sort of garbage you rate highly, I'll bet they're very glad you ignore them! ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 13:58
lmao clown over here |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 14:00
 The little I have heard of Holmes is great although it would be unfair to compare with the works of the others, of which I have heard only glimpses |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 14:08
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Mike Holmes followed by Mick Rogers. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 15:37
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Mr. Holmes for me. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: ScorchedFirth
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 15:40
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Mike Holmes. His genius is even more apparent live, too!
------------- breathing, eating, defecating, screwing, drinking, spewing, sleeping... 
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 15:48
While some bands definitely straddle the line between neo and symph, they are two distinctive styles. Neo has a tendency to be more song-oriented, with more emphasis on melody than on complex time signatures and chord changes. Neo also has less focus on extended soloing. There also seemed to be an incorporation of 80's music into the mix. Except for a few instrumental neo bands that I know of, vocals took a much more prominent role in neo. And finally, neo didn't have quite the breadth that symph has, namely that neo seemed to take inspiration from Wind and Wuthering and left out pretty much all other prog influences, early on anyway. BTW, it isn't just listed here as a separate subgenre. It is a generally accepted subgenre of prog. PA is just following the generally accepted here. This is a tough question from the OP. Holmes and Lees are among my favorites and a few of the others aren't too shabby either. This time I'm going to go with Lees, but on any other day it could have been Holmes. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 15:53
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I've been listening to Pendragon recently, and also the new Flower Kings. Pendragon is no less symphonic than The Flower Kings. (And Spock's Beard should probably be in Crossover.) So there!  ------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 16:18
Absolutely, Rogers shines ! If you have any doubts , check out his solo on Visionary Mountain , a classic sizzle of momentous feel. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 18:06
Given that IQ play in all sorts of complex time signatures and use complex chord structures as well as soloing frequently and extensively, they surely fall into symphonic then.
Just because PA uses the term neo-prog to define a genre (and some other prog forums don't accept it) doesn't mean it's right. Martin Orford particularly hates the term; I think he knows what he's talking about. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 18:16
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As the originator of this poll, I find choosing damned hard myself!
Fean - Can tear out Celtic riffs and solos which you just HAVE to get up and dance to
Holmes - Technically brilliant; can tap with the best and makes all the hardest solos look easy
Josh - One of the most emotive guitarists of all and a superb soloist
Lambert - Very underrated
Lees - Excellent at both rhythm and lead work
Rogers - Has an astonishing "feel"
I might go with Holmes, but then again, it might just be Josh. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 18:39
Nightingales n Bombers together with Solar Fire are my fave from the Earthband. Rogers actually has many lead parts on those albums now that I think of it, but I kind of like it when he sits back and goes blurry bluesy and then pops out time and again into one of his big solos. Fantastic ax man. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 18:43
I heard Marillion regularly referred to as a neo-prog band way back in 1984, long before there was a PA. That is a long-accepted term applied to several bands which arose in the late 70's/early 80's and played a more accessible style of symphonic prog. Many neo-prog musicians hate the term. It doesn't mean that isn't what they're playing. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 29 2012 at 19:00
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Holmes for me as well.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 04:15
Thank you for making my point so eloquently. Neo-prog was a term applied in the early 80s to the new wave of (post-punk) prog bands. It referred to their newness, not their style. Now they are no longer "new", so the label is redundant and inexact.
It's like one of my old universities, St Andrews; they built a hall of residence in the early 90s and called it New Hall. 20 years on, they realise that it ain't new anymore so they're renaming it Agnes Forbes Blackadder Hall. We probably need to reassimilate the neo-prog bands into their correct stylistic categories (because even Marillion and IQ are quite different in many ways), though frankly I am not genre obsessed; I just hate obvious inexactitudes. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: The-Winkler
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 04:53
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All cool guitarists but my vote goes to Mike Holmes, seen them live 3 weeks ago and his playing is phenomenal... |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 07:07
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No contest for me, Mick Rogers is an incredible guitarist, I love every second in his playing with the Earth Band. He is totally overlooked that's for sure. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 10:15
That was the whole point of this poll!
There are too many great bands and musicians who never feature on here because this forum is obsessed with certain bands WAY beyond their real importance/historical popularity. In my local prog group MME are considered extremely important and Rogers is highly rated, as also are Strawbs and BJH. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 11:24
I'm glad to hear that since I've talked about Rogers several times here but found no appreciation. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 14:33
I must admit with regard to MMEB I focus on Vocals first and Keyboards second and never thought about the guitarist. I always thought it was a guy called 'Davey'
anyway did Rogers play on the album version of Blinded By The Light? If so then he deserves more attention than he gets.
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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 15:03
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I think John Lees is the most unique sounding of this lot. All others, good as they may be (and some are really excellent) all sound generic or emulate previous guitarrists. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 15:25
Actually no he's not, it's Dave Flett on guitars which he is pretty good indeed, at first I didn't notice a change in style only later on I noticed Rogers is not there anymore. |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 20:45
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There are so many ignored guitarists that could be included on this list, but I think Mike Holmes has never been given his due. He's a fine player and one that is tasteful and always knows exactly what to play and what not to play. Some guitarists just don't know when to keep quiet. Holmes is also someone who doesn't worry about being in the limelight. I always thought Mike Holmes should do some solo recordings, but I guess he's just way too busy with IQ. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 03:22
So in you're local group these popular prog related rock bands are considered extremely important. I'm pleased that on PA the truly progressive rock bands are considered the most important. And that popuarity is of less relevance. But of course: although once quite popular, (much like Peter Frampton or Gilbert O' Sullivan) BJH's music has practically no relevance in the 00's. Quite the opposite of say... VdGG. ------------- 
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Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 06:55
| Obviously it is Dave Lambert as he hasn't received a vote yet! |
Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 08:59
I actually voted for Mike Holmes, being a huge IQ fan, but all these guitarists are indeed criminally underrated. Anyway, I thought I'd post this clip for a brief musical interlude in the discussion: Wonderful!!!
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 09:04
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Voted for Johnny Fean. I saw him live and he was excellent.
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 15:20
I've seen him 10 times and he's ALWAYS been excellent! ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 15:31
"prog related rock bands"
Please do not talk such codswallop. All these guitarist's bands were amongst the archetypal progressive/progressive folk bands in the 70s (except of course IQ and MA, who are also undeniably prog) and I know because I've been a prog fan since c1968. All of them are just as progressive as VDGG and BJH in particular were considered to be amongst the inventors of the genre, alongside King Crimson, Traffic, The Moody Blues and others.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 15:42
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Speaking of yet another ignored guitarist is Alan Morse of Spock's Beard. I've read a thread here where a member doesn't like his distortion tone but he's got A LOT of effects and not just one distortion sound. He is constantly changing his effects: chorus, flangers, phasers...you name it. Anyway, I think he's a very technically accomplished guitarist and knows what and when to play. I was listened to SB's Snow earlier and was amazed at how good he sounded. Sure some of his outbursts are wacky, but they add another dimension to SB's overall sound. Much like Alex Lifeson adds so much color to Rush's music.
------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 17:21
lol |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 17:39
Not bad for a band that released their largely ignored psychpop debut sometime in june 1970. I thought by then prog was "invented" and had already moved far beyond what BJH were releasing years later. But maybe you know something I don't? -------------
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 18:17
Yes, obviously I do. I saw them in Manchester in 1968 (well before they released their first album) and they were clearly progressive in the same way Floyd were about the same time. And they'd been going for at least a year by then. Their first album was somewhat different from what they'd been doing before that and was largely dictated by their label, but it was hardly psychopop with tracks like "When the World was Woken" or "Dark now my Sky", was it?
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: July 31 2012 at 20:04
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Also worthy of a 'mention in dispatches' here as a seriously underrated guitarist is John Mitchell of It Bites, Arena, The Urbane, Kino, Frost*, and John Wetton Band.
These three clips are from John Wetton's 'Live In The Underworld' DVD from 2003, and show what a fine player Mr Mitchell actually is.  Beautiful stuff!! |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 01:47
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I would also chuck in some Chris Fry
^ btw he's in the white shirt in the Magenta video and its about 6 minutes in before he really struts his stuff. Seriously underated guitarist. (Magenta are great live.)
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 04:17
(no, not psychopop) Truthfully, I've only listened to their debut once and remember it as having an older feel than its release date. In '68 they probably experimented and stretched out when playing live just like any other band. Everything I've heard by them (including the two tracks you mention, found them on Youtube) has been mostly less progressive than what inessential groups such as Gracious or Cressida released in the same period. And Once Again still sound like a combination of what the bigger names of UK-prog bands had already recorded before them. Btw: Your poll and opening post is perfectly fine and If it wasn't for your attitude when replying to others, I would never have bothered commenting. I'll try and stay away from now on.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 05:03
I love Chris fry. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 05:12
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Johnny Fean is not only a master of both electric and acoustic guitar, he also has one of the most superb singing voices of all time. He is it. Johnny Fean...........you are a genius. Everybody buy the Horslips back catalogue and enjoy yourself.
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Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 06:25
Not to mention Gary Chandler of Jadis...  |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 07:56
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If were talking about other guitar players I gotta mention Radim Hladik from Modry Efekt, one of the best guitarist from the 70's, no doubt about it. And hardly do I ever see his name gets mentioned, it's a pitty so many people doesn't know this magnificent band. |
Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 12:58
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OK, Let's have a listen then...
Point taken... Great stuff!!! |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 15:33
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Posted By: mohaveman
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 20:10
| Mick Rogers |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: August 01 2012 at 23:36
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