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Neo-Prog ==> Melodic Progressive

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Topic: Neo-Prog ==> Melodic Progressive
Posted By: firstlensman
Subject: Neo-Prog ==> Melodic Progressive
Date Posted: October 12 2012 at 12:42
With the advent of "New Prog" (Radiohead, Mars Volta, et. al.), should this site consider changing the name of the category "Neo-Prog" to "Melodic Progressive" in order avoid confusion for new aficionados of Progressive Music? 

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First Lensman
"Forever caught in desert lands, one has to learn to disbelieve the sea"



Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 12 2012 at 13:19
Melodic Prog Rock (or Melodic Prog, though I prefer the former) would be better, since some might argue that a lot of the music is not really progressive (I use progressive by itself in an adjectival sense).  It would still lead to confusion since, say, Symphonic Prog (which is also a misleading term) is commonly melodic.  So I'd just keep it as is unless there was a really descriptive title (and that is not intended an invitation to "colourful" (i.e. derogatory) language describing Neo Prog).

I was confused with the term Neo-Prog about ten years ago as I first thought it equalled something like all Post-classic Prog, but people who don't know the categorisation Melodic Rock might also be confused.  As for New Prog (aka Nu Prog), I have suggested that as a possible category or designation here before and practically got flamed for it (I still think it a useful designation, if not as a  category proper, but just generally so).

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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: October 12 2012 at 14:06
They should change the name of "neo-prog" to "I-Wish-I-Was-Peter-Gabriel-Prog"

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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 12 2012 at 16:47
I don't think the two terms are synonymous so I would say No, although I understand your intention

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"Prog Heavy Petting" show - every Monday 7-9pm UK time on http://www.justincaseradio.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.justincaseradio.com , the first progressive radio in Greece


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 12 2012 at 16:50
He is one of those prog snobs that are too good for neo prog. 

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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: October 12 2012 at 17:09
What is melodic prog ? a mix of prog and AOR ?
I remember once I was in a record store, and I started discussing with someone about Jorn lande's project, Ark. The guy tried to convince me that "progressive" is synonym of "melodic"...
 
Neo-prog is refering to a scene that arose in the early eighties, you cannot change the label for all the (mainly) british bands of that scene. We will not recreate the wheel, it's as if someone decided that the now-wave scene (Lydia Lunch, DNA, Mars, James Chance...) should be renamed "experimental rock".
 


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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)


Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: October 12 2012 at 18:14
Just exclude it altogether Tongue

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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: October 13 2012 at 06:44
Originally posted by firstlensman

With the advent of "New Prog" (Radiohead, Mars Volta, et. al.), should this site consider changing the name of the category "Neo-Prog" to "Melodic Progressive" in order avoid confusion for new aficionados of Progressive Music? 


Whose gonna confuse either Radiohead or The Mars Volta with Marillion or IQ?Confused


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 13 2012 at 07:23
The name "Neo Prog" has historical significance, even if it was seen as derogatory by many. New Prog is (at present) journalistic laziness since non-Prog bands like Elbow, Coldplay, 30 Seconds to Mars and Doves also get tagged with this epithet because they get a bit "diverse" and use string arangements in their productions - the "problem" for me is seperating those bands from those we recognise as being Prog if we subject them to a nebulous categorisation based upon lazy journalism rather than musicological definitions. For me, Melodic Prog would be far to board a category to be of any practical value, since that would encompas too many existing Prog subgenres, such as Symphonic, Crossover, Eclectic, Prog Folk, Electronic and Neo Prog - all of whom have melodic bands in their number.

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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 18:48
Originally posted by Dean

The name "Neo Prog" has historical significance, even if it was seen as derogatory by many. New Prog is (at present) journalistic laziness since non-Prog bands like Elbow, Coldplay, 30 Seconds to Mars and Doves also get tagged with this epithet because they get a bit "diverse" and use string arangements in their productions - the "problem" for me is seperating those bands from those we recognise as being Prog if we subject them to a nebulous categorisation based upon lazy journalism rather than musicological definitions. For me, Melodic Prog would be far to board a category to be of any practical value, since that would encompas too many existing Prog subgenres, such as Symphonic, Crossover, Eclectic, Prog Folk, Electronic and Neo Prog - all of whom have melodic bands in their number.

good summation Dean.   I concur.  I would even say neo is not necessarily even the most melodic of these sub genres, and add (which you implied) that RPI, heavy prog, psychedelic/space,Canterbury, and even prog metal can be quite melodic at times.  Not sure about RIO/Avant though Shocked
It's therefore more like an unrelated way of classifying prog from the system we have designed, and not very useful here, since, from reviews I've read and written, there is much divergence of opinion on what constitututes a melodic song and what doesn't, let alone a group.



Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: October 22 2012 at 16:30
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil

They should change the name of "neo-prog" to "I-Wish-I-Was-Peter-Gabriel-Prog"


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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 23 2012 at 04:46
Originally posted by Dean

The name "Neo Prog" has historical significance, even if it was seen as derogatory by many. New Prog is (at present) journalistic laziness since non-Prog bands like Elbow, Coldplay, 30 Seconds to Mars and Doves also get tagged with this epithet because they get a bit "diverse" and use string arangements in their productions - the "problem" for me is seperating those bands from those we recognise as being Prog if we subject them to a nebulous categorisation based upon lazy journalism rather than musicological definitions. For me, Melodic Prog would be far to board a category to be of any practical value, since that would encompas too many existing Prog subgenres, such as Symphonic, Crossover, Eclectic, Prog Folk, Electronic and Neo Prog - all of whom have melodic bands in their number.


Agreed.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Anaon
Date Posted: April 29 2013 at 23:04
Hi!

How would you describe progressive rock which is not technically complex, without being space or art rock?

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Spleen Arcana new album available now: http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/album/the-light-beyond-the-shades" rel="nofollow - http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/album/the-light-beyond-the-shades


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 08:30
Originally posted by Anaon

Hi!

How would you describe progressive rock which is not technically complex, without being space or art rock?

depends...could fall into any of symphonic, crossover, neo, or folk.  Maybe even eclectic, although eclectic can tend to be a bit more complex


Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 08:37
Originally posted by firstlensman

With the advent of "New Prog" (Radiohead, Mars Volta, et. al.), should this site consider changing the name of the category "Neo-Prog" to "Melodic Progressive" in order avoid confusion for new aficionados of Progressive Music? 
 
No.  Neo-prog existed and was labeled first.  If people get confused by the Neo vs. New thing, it's on them to get un-confused.  In fact, I actually find the suggestion a little bit offensive.  Besides, most prog has melody (unless you're stepping into RIO territory or other such subs) and to rename Neo to Melodic would be confusing.  Neo-prog exists and will continue to do so.  Time for people to just deal with it. 


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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?


Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 08:47
I wish some people would stop turning their nose up at the genre tag, even some of the bands labelled it! It is not an instant negative, nor does it sell them short or make then any inferior to other genres of progressive rock.

Plenty of times for me I like to know a band is Neo styled, gives me an instant idea of what to look forward to hearing from them.

Snobbery, dismissal and people's attitude towards the Neo Prog tag is what needs to change!


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 08:49
It's music.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Anaon
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 08:50
Thanks! It's interesting Smile i'm asking because I'm searching for the best way to describe my music, I've been reviewed in the crossover section on ProgArchives but I feel people don't really know what it means outside the prog circles.

I think it's the bit strange to add the "melodic" adjective as like some said, most of prog sub-genres are melodic...


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Spleen Arcana new album available now: http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/album/the-light-beyond-the-shades" rel="nofollow - http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/album/the-light-beyond-the-shades


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 20:44
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil

They should change the name of "neo-prog" to "I-Wish-I-Was-Peter-Gabriel-Prog"

God how did i miss this - lol


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Posted By: apps79
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 02:37
Just saw this thread and actually fully agree with all above.Neo Prog is already a classic term, that shouln't be changed, these bands came straight out of the need for the survival of Prog music, while Coldplay and Muse's sound is even questionable ifbeing prog.Additionally tons of symphonic and crossover bands and albums are melodic, so we should also split them to melodic and non-melodic as well.Frustrating work to say the least.

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When the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will know peace...

listen to www.justincaseradio.com , the first ever Greek Progressive Rock radio


Posted By: Roland113
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 08:06
I'm with Horizon here.

I also agree with psarros, there's really no need, in my mind, to start reinventing genre's.  If it's that big of a concern go start your own site and classify how ever you'd like.

Just think Triceratopsoil, you wouldn't have to include Neo at all.


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I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a five year old daughter and coping mechanisms.


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 08:26
Originally posted by psarros

Just saw this thread and actually fully agree with all above.Neo Prog is already a classic term, that shouln't be changed, these bands came straight out of the need for the survival of Prog music, while Coldplay and Muse's sound is even questionable ifbeing prog.Additionally tons of symphonic and crossover bands and albums are melodic, so we should also split them to melodic and non-melodic as well.Frustrating work to say the least.

let's not forget those incorrigibly melodic folk groups  Embarrassed


Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 03 2013 at 00:04
How about 60s Prog, 70s Prog, 80s Prog, 90s Prog, 00s Prog, and 10s Prog? That should last us until the end of the year 2059....

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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: May 05 2013 at 21:43
RIO/Avant is plenty melodic... it's just dissonant, and lacking in genuine catharsis, resolution, and common sense.

Kidding. There are several bands of it who are truly great. Those ones do tend to make concessions to traditional forms and emotion though.


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"It's music, and I like it" - Miles Davis on Sketches of Spain


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: May 06 2013 at 20:12
Prog rock, melodic prog rock, neo prog rock, crossover prog, heavy prog rock.....
 
Confused


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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 11:47
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil

They should change the name of "neo-prog" to "I-Wish-I-Was-Peter-Gabriel-Prog"


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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 14:31
This is a great idea and will eliminate confusion....since no other prog is melodic. Wacko

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Posted By: apps79
Date Posted: May 09 2013 at 15:43
Originally posted by kenethlevine

Originally posted by psarros

Just saw this thread and actually fully agree with all above.Neo Prog is already a classic term, that shouln't be changed, these bands came straight out of the need for the survival of Prog music, while Coldplay and Muse's sound is even questionable ifbeing prog.Additionally tons of symphonic and crossover bands and albums are melodic, so we should also split them to melodic and non-melodic as well.Frustrating work to say the least.

let's not forget those incorrigibly melodic folk groups  Embarrassed
passed them by, because if all melodic bands were refered, this thread should actually end up in PA having only two genres: Melodic Prog and Non-Melodic Prog...pretty simplistic ending ah?Cool


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When the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will know peace...

listen to www.justincaseradio.com , the first ever Greek Progressive Rock radio


Posted By: apps79
Date Posted: May 09 2013 at 15:44
Originally posted by Stool Man

How about 60s Prog, 70s Prog, 80s Prog, 90s Prog, 00s Prog, and 10s Prog? That should last us until the end of the year 2059....
LOLLOLLOL cool!


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When the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will know peace...

listen to www.justincaseradio.com , the first ever Greek Progressive Rock radio


Posted By: Lynx33
Date Posted: August 17 2013 at 04:20
Martin Orford: new wave of progressive rock. That's how it should be called.

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Mindez elmúlt. Ma már tudom köszönteni a szépséget.



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