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Why listen to mediocre prog if you not a collector

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Topic: Why listen to mediocre prog if you not a collector
Posted By: desistindo
Subject: Why listen to mediocre prog if you not a collector
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 10:36
I have a theory that only collectors listen to prog that arent a masterpiece (at least in personal taste perspective). If you can listen to a top star album, why would you listen a two star, for instance? Particularly speaking, I have many prog albums and I just linsten back to the tops. Does it occur with you too?

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Who watches the watcher of the skies?



Replies:
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 10:42
No. I listen to dozens of albums that are not masterpieces. Just because something is not a masterpiece does not mean it is not enjoyable and satisfying, particularly if you are in a particular mood.

If we only listened to masterpieces, we would have very little to choose from and variety is the spice of life.


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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 10:50
Originally posted by thellama73

No. I listen to dozens of albums that are not masterpieces. Just because something is not a masterpiece does not mean it is not enjoyable and satisfying, particularly if you are in a particular mood.

If we only listened to masterpieces, we would have very little to choose from and variety is the spice of life.
I don't need to add anything Clap


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 10:53
This is what happens when music gets reduced to something quantifiable... 
Imagine if you rated your lover every time you've had sex with her:

"Pretty good dear, but your tongue is currently a bit lifeless, and I could use some more latex in your wardrobe as well. I'll give you 3 stars. Alright 3.5 to be more exact"


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 10:57
^
The people on this home side are professionals, able to get away with anything by adding some Kraut. 
So pleeeease dont try this at home Big smile


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My Music: www.jokeinc.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - www.jokeinc.bandcamp.com
My blog: www.tamijo2013.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - www.tamijo2013.wordpress.com


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:26
Keep your ears open. I rarely listen to the masterpieces. 


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:31
^Me neither. 
I save them for the right moment, so as they don't get killed by routines and the haze of everyday life. There is a reason why we don't celebrate Christmas more than once a year(Might also have something to do with that Jesus dude).


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:34
I am 63 but I want to hear every single prog rock genre. My ears may be younger than me.


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:35
Originally posted by timothy leary

I am 63 but I want to hear every single prog rock genre. My ears may be younger than me.
I'm "only" 50 but I know what you mean


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:36
Well, of course I rarely listen to albums that I have already decided I don't like. That is natural. But when exploring new music, you have no way of knowing beforehand if it's gonna be good or not.


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:37
"Plastic surgery attack victim claims he had his ears replaced in the darkness of night"


Edit: I was aiming at Mr Leary hereEmbarrassed


-------------
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:41
Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul

Well, of course I rarely listen to albums that I have already decided I don't like. That is natural. But when exploring new music, you have no way of knowing beforehand if it's gonna be good or not.

Sometimes an album needs time to sink in. I revisit a lot of albums I did not initially like only to find that sometimes they just needed more listens. For me would be torture to listen to the same masterpieces over and over.


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:44
[QUOTE=Guldbamsen] "Plastic surgery attack victim claims he had his ears replaced in the darkness of night"


Edit: I was aiming at Mr Leary hereEmbarrassed
[/QUOTE}

How could you tell?Smile


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:46
Originally posted by timothy leary

[QUOTE=Guldbamsen] "Plastic surgery attack victim claims he had his ears replaced in the darkness of night"


Edit: I was aiming at Mr Leary hereEmbarrassed
[/QUOTE}

How could you tell?Smile


Those awful stitchingsTongue


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:47
Originally posted by timothy leary

Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul

Well, of course I rarely listen to albums that I have already decided I don't like. That is natural. But when exploring new music, you have no way of knowing beforehand if it's gonna be good or not.

Sometimes an album needs time to sink in. I revisit a lot of albums I did not initially like only to find that sometimes they just needed more listens. For me would be torture to listen to the same masterpieces over and over.

Well, of course I listen to an album a number of times before I make up my mind on it. And even then I might occasionally pull it out again to see if I wasn't misjudging it. But generally speaking, once I decided I don't like something I will avoid it.


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:57
I love listening to stuff that I know sucks.  It's all part of my grand educational project.  Then again, I am a collector, so I'd still fit in the scheme of the OP's premise.   I can't speak for more casual consumers.

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My other avatar is a Porsche / http://raregoat.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - RARE GOAT bandcamp page

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 11:57
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Originally posted by timothy leary

[QUOTE=Guldbamsen] "Plastic surgery attack victim claims he had his ears replaced in the darkness of night"


Edit: I was aiming at Mr Leary hereEmbarrassed
[/QUOTE}

How could you tell?Smile


Those awful stitchingsTongue

Actually my wife probably sees the Sennheiser Hd 595's as my ears as much as they are on my head. We are big on hand signals.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:01
Well, despite talking about masterpieces from a personal perspective, I wouldn't think of all of the albums I listen to as masterpieces.  Getting away from semantics regarding the therm "masterpiece", really most of the music I listen to I do find really excellent, and it's rare that I pick up an album that I don't find excellent.   So, yeah, personal enjoyment wise, I commonly only listen to albums that would be four and five stars for me.  What's great does rather depend on my mood, but when I pick up albums I pick ones that I feel will fit my mood, and when I return to albums it's based on my mood.  So in a sense, I could say that I mostly only listen to albums that I find to be masterpieces (of extremely good quality).  What I find interesting is seeing people who have a bunch of one and two star ratings.  I have very rarely picked up an album that I don't love, or grow to love.  I might lose interest in it at some time, but then I don't play it any more (I follow my urges).  And on those rare occasions (used to happen more frequently, but now I know music better and more what to expect) that I have picked up an album I thought poor or didn't hold my interest at all, well I just neglect those.  Not worth it for me giving it enough attention to rate such ones.

Being redundant:  So, I almost always listen to masterpieces or near masterpieces (masterpiece not in the sense of being the best work by an artist, but in being an album I  find terrific).


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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:08
Originally posted by timothy leary

Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Originally posted by timothy leary

[QUOTE=Guldbamsen] "Plastic surgery attack victim claims he had his ears replaced in the darkness of night"


Edit: I was aiming at Mr Leary hereEmbarrassed
[/QUOTE}

How could you tell?Smile


Those awful stitchingsTongue

Actually my wife probably sees the Sennheiser Hd 595's as my ears as much as they are on my head. We are big on hand signals.


LOL


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:13
Originally posted by HolyMoly

I love listening to stuff that I know sucks.  It's all part of my grand educational project.  Then again, I am a collector, so I'd still fit in the scheme of the OP's premise.   I can't speak for more casual consumers.


I'd like to get some more so-bad-they're-great albums (have before).  Sort of the the masterpieces of bad music


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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:17
Originally posted by Logan

Originally posted by HolyMoly

I love listening to stuff that I know sucks.  It's all part of my grand educational project.  Then again, I am a collector, so I'd still fit in the scheme of the OP's premise.   I can't speak for more casual consumers.


I'd like to get some more so-bad-they're-great albums (have before).  Sort of the the masterpieces of bad music


I feel that way about Cro-MagnonBig smile


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Neelus
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:24
I feel much more "attached" to albums I discovered without being told beforehand that it is a "masterpiece" by a friend or publication. I guess it feels more like I own the enjoyment myself? Not sure, but it does feel neat discovering great music.  Probably one of the reasons I stayed away from popular music being fed to me through the radio in the first place. 
The "masterpiece" albums known to all are fantastic too, but we all know that Smile


Posted By: friso
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:29
Masterpieces are those albums given a specific lable in my mind. When it comes down to it I often have the behavior of not listen to much to these specific records. I can learn from this that selecting music has more to do with my moods and behavioral pattern that aren't revealed to me in full conscience.

..yeaah scientist yeaah...


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:40
I listen to albums that are far short of masterpiece standard regularly, partly because I like listening to new stuff, some of which isn't always great, but it's worth it when you turn up a gem.
 
I also sometimes listen to older albums which I own but don't care for; I did this with GG and suddenly saw what I'd been missing for 30 years. As a long time non-fan of VDGG, I occasionally give them a spin to remind myself why I don't like them. The disconcerting thing is that I found myself quite enjoying Pawn Hearts last week so another revelation may be brewing a la GG.
 
I also listen to the lesser albums from bands I love. Listening to Strawbs' lacklustre Nomadness, for example, always makes me appreciate just how brilliant Grave New World is.


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I have many faults. Being wrong is not one of them.


Posted By: 10mb
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:40
I don't always agree with the term "masterpiece". And why would you place such limits to your listening enjoyment? There are many compositions that have sublime passages to them that you would completely eliminate if you only listen to masterpieces. Wonderful solos and chord progressions....
That being said, I do rely on a consensus rating when introducing myself to new stuff and I'm more inclined to listen to the highest rated release of a new (to me) band- often approaching the "masterpiece" designation.Smile


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:41
Originally posted by desistindo

I have a theory that only collectors listen to prog that arent a masterpiece (at least in personal taste perspective). If you can listen to a top star album, why would you listen a two star, for instance? Particularly speaking, I have many prog albums and I just linsten back to the tops. Does it occur with you too?

You have to acknowledge the possible potential of the albums that are not masterworks. E.g., there was a time when I really enjoyed listening to Genesis' From Genesis to Revelation simply because I was one of those people who just couldn't put their fingers on the stuff that sounds a bit like The Beatles or any other psych-pop-rock band with strings. But hey, ... I'm not a collector!


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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:42
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Originally posted by Logan

Originally posted by HolyMoly

I love listening to stuff that I know sucks.  It's all part of my grand educational project.  Then again, I am a collector, so I'd still fit in the scheme of the OP's premise.   I can't speak for more casual consumers.


I'd like to get some more so-bad-they're-great albums (have before).  Sort of the the masterpieces of bad music


I feel that way about Cro-MagnonBig smile


I'm guesssing you don't mean the Japanese jazz-fusion band?  It's good.  If you mean the psych/ experimental Cromagnon from 1969, the one that released Orgasm, that album would fit for me.  Then there's the Cro Magnon in RIO/Avant which I like.

Originally posted by Neelus

I feel much more "attached" to albums I discovered without being told beforehand that it is a "masterpiece" by a friend or publication. I guess it feels more like I own the enjoyment myself? Not sure, but it does feel neat discovering great music.  Probably one of the reasons I stayed away from popular music being fed to me through the radio in the first place. 
The "masterpiece" albums known to all are fantastic too, but we all know that Smile


Many of the ones commonly considered masterpieces often don't really do it for me.  For instance, I don't find Close to the Edge fantastic.


Originally posted by friso

Masterpieces are those albums given a specific lable in my mind. When it comes down to it I often have the behavior of not listen to much to these specific records. I can learn from this that selecting music has more to do with my moods and behavioral pattern that aren't revealed to me in full conscience.

..yeaah scientist yeaah...


The album I have the the urge for at any given time usually depends on  my mood and psyche, so at that time those albums are masterpieces for me (in terms of being amazingly enjoyable).  At another time I wouldn't enjoy a given album, but my urges don't fail me.




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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 12:46
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

^Me neither. 
I save them for the right moment, so as they don't get killed by routines and the haze of everyday life. There is a reason why we don't celebrate Christmas more than once a year.
Same here!
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

^Me neither. 
I save them for the right moment, so as they don't get killed by routines and the haze of everyday life. There is a reason why we don't celebrate Christmas more than once a year(Might also have something to do with that Jesus dude).
Might also have something to do with those Carpenters Christmas songs. ... Dead LOL




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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 13:04
Originally posted by Logan

Originally posted by HolyMoly

I love listening to stuff that I know sucks.  It's all part of my grand educational project.  Then again, I am a collector, so I'd still fit in the scheme of the OP's premise.   I can't speak for more casual consumers.


I'd like to get some more so-bad-they're-great albums (have before).  Sort of the the masterpieces of bad music
Yes, exactly.  It's fun!

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My other avatar is a Porsche / http://raregoat.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - RARE GOAT bandcamp page

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran


Posted By: Eetu Pellonpää
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 13:07
Sometimes I find it interesting trying to understand the people, their psyche and cultural etc. backgrounds through arts, also why not a progressive rock recording. My or public opinion about their work's quality wouldn't matter in this kind of perspection, only the flickering ghost of human souls reflected to the artefact. Many times albums which may have quality flaws in sounds, or technical skill may yet shimmer with this spirit and be more interesting than well produced and calculated "masterpiece" product.


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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 13:07
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

 
I feel that way about Cro-MagnonBig smile
Did you know that Ghost covers one of those songs (Caledonia) on their "In Stormy Nights" album? Shocked

[TUBE]cZPZw3SlAvI[/TUBE]


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My other avatar is a Porsche / http://raregoat.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - RARE GOAT bandcamp page

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran


Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 13:27
Well, at least in my case, the OP is right. 
I only listen to lower rated albums of bands that I already know well and appreciate.
And even then I'm more than once disappointed by those lower rated albums.
I try to avoid mediocre stuff, and PA is an excellent database.
Of course, there are exceptions, but most of my favorite albums have a 3.50+ rating on PA.


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 17:01
Originally posted by thellama73

No. I listen to dozens of albums that are not masterpieces. Just because something is not a masterpiece does not mean it is not enjoyable and satisfying, particularly if you are in a particular mood.

If we only listened to masterpieces, we would have very little to choose from and variety is the spice of life.
This parallels my first thought, to which I add that as long as the lower rated album is still enjoyable (which is the ultimate criteria for listeners), it does help give perspective on what makes a masterpiece.  The same can be said for one star albums, but why would you listen to something you rate that low?  Of course, ratings are subjective, so one person's masterpiece can be another's piece of crap.


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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 17:07
It's also worth pointing out that your feelings about an album can change over time. A masterpiece that you've heard a hundred times may have little to offer from an additional listen, whereas a three star album you've only heard twice may yet have hidden treasures to reveal.

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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 17:07
Hi,
 
Hmmmm ... I'm wondering if you are rating things way too much. I don't worry about classic, progressive or merde, and enjoy music for what it is. I keep thinking that if I was to listen for "masterpieces", I would never ever, forever, appreciate a Missa Luba or the Sex Pistols ... but then again ... I avoid these classifications in principle on purpose ... I have never heard music because it was this or that ... I heard it because it called me, and my curiosiry got lit up!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 17:15
^ I totally agree. I think I said something to the same effect on the first page.
This is what happens when you transform music into a sport.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Ytse_Jam
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 17:42
Originally posted by desistindo

If you can listen to a top star album, why would you listen a two star, for instance?
Don't know.. because you like it?


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 17:52
Why would anyone call an album 'a 2 star album' outside of an actual review?
Please don't buy into the whole rating thing. Yes it's there to give you some form of tangible knowledge as to how good you think an album is, but when you take it with you and start awarding music stars inside your head - conjuring up wild discussions about whether to rate something 3 or 4 stars, then you are really missing the point by a very large margin. Music should hopefully be more than that.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Ytse_Jam
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 17:58
It's absurd to talk about "5 stars albums", 2 stars", mediocre stuff, ecc.. Music is subjective.


Posted By: moodyxadi
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 18:00
Why do we read mediocre posts or mediocre topics? Out of curiosity, boredom, for geting nothing better to do or just for the sake of finding something interesting in the middle of a teen's confuse mind - even if written by someone other than the OP, which is the usual thing.

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Bach, Ma, Bros, Déia, Dante.


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 18:05
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

... but when you take it with you and start awarding music stars inside your head - conjuring up wild discussions about whether to rate something 3 or 4 stars, then you are really missing the point by a very large margin. Music should hopefully be more than that.
Maybe not here on PA. Music should be more than that, not reviews. I remember that about a couple of months back there was some sort of derision of founding reviews on the enjoyment factor. Can't remember what thread it was.

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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 18:13
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq


Originally posted by Guldbamsen

... but when you take it with you and start awarding music stars inside your head - conjuring up wild discussions about whether to rate something 3 or 4 stars, then you are really missing the point by a very large margin. Music should hopefully be more than that.
Maybe not here on PA. Music should be more than that, not reviews. I remember that about a couple of months back there was some sort of derision of founding reviews on the enjoyment factor. Can't remember what thread it was.



I think I know what you mean, but it is entirely feasible to review something - and do it well without reducing the album to a number, or putting the rating on a pedestal.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 18:19
And what exactly is a masterpiece? Isn't that rather subjective? Just because a majority of the reviewers here rate an album just three or two stars doesn't mean it's not an album someone else considers to be a masterpiece.

It would be interesting to know what the OP thinks is mediocre prog. Might be something I absolutely love, and is a masterpiece in my taste . Wink


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 18:27
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq


Originally posted by Guldbamsen

... but when you take it with you and start awarding music stars inside your head - conjuring up wild discussions about whether to rate something 3 or 4 stars, then you are really missing the point by a very large margin. Music should hopefully be more than that.
Maybe not here on PA. Music should be more than that, not reviews. I remember that about a couple of months back there was some sort of derision of founding reviews on the enjoyment factor. Can't remember what thread it was.

I think I know what you mean, but it is entirely feasible to review something - and do it well without reducing the album to a number, or putting the rating on a pedestal.
In other words, you are highly encouraging writing a review without just hanging a rating on an album. Well, ... nobody thought (to my certain knowledge, at least) that just giving a number would be a good idea.


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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 18:36
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq


Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq


Originally posted by Guldbamsen

... but when you take it with you and start awarding music stars inside your head - conjuring up wild discussions about whether to rate something 3 or 4 stars, then you are really missing the point by a very large margin. Music should hopefully be more than that.
Maybe not here on PA. Music should be more than that, not reviews. I remember that about a couple of months back there was some sort of derision of founding reviews on the enjoyment factor. Can't remember what thread it was.
I think I know what you mean, but it is entirely feasible to review something - and do it well without reducing the album to a number, or putting the rating on a pedestal.

In other words, you are highly encouraging writing a review without just hanging a rating on an album. Well, ... nobody thought (to my certain knowledge, at least) that just giving a number would be a good idea.


Nah, I don't think so either. But some emphasise the meaning of the rating to the extent of futility imho.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 19:00
I don't know about you, but I always try to rate albums in my head. This has no real significance, it's just an attempt to express my enjoyment of an album in a number. And usually it works quite well.


Posted By: My Dreaming Hill
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 19:06
Just because A Momentary Lapse of Reason isn't the best Pink Floyd album that doesn't mean it can't be one of my favorites.

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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 19:33
If I only listened to flawless, masterpiece albums, my listening experience would be extremely limited and even the best albums get boring if you listen to them over and over and over again, ad nauseam.  I can still find enjoyment in a three or four star album, and even a lot of two star albums have some good stuff on them (Domino and Brazilian on Invisible Touch, Sorrow on Momentary Lapse, I'm Running and Shoot High, Aim Low on Big Generator, etc.)

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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 20:26
I'm an obscure & vintage Prog buff but I know what the OP means--  sometimes you realize why certain artists faded into obscurity, and the real 'lost gems' are far and few between.


Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 20:44
I get sick of the same album over and over and will listen to others from same artist to get a fresh perspective on their other works. Also if I find out an album is really bad I will never return to it, but if it at least has 3 stars by my standards its worth a listen.


I like obscure prog as well as the popular albums as it helps to open my ears to what is out there.


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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 22:17
Originally posted by desistindo

I have a theory that only collectors listen to prog that arent a masterpiece (at least in personal taste perspective). If you can listen to a top star album, why would you listen a two star, for instance? Particularly speaking, I have many prog albums and I just linsten back to the tops. Does it occur with you too?

Well, you may not know that it IS a two star album the first time around.  It might be rated 4.5 on PA and might be worth only 2 to you, that's personal taste.    However, I get the point and I am also not very much interested in completism or in tracking down any and every prog rock band with a half decent rating.  I would much rather listen to some completely different music than prog rock instead of listening to the same old derivative by the numbers prog by a mediocre band.


Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 23:24
Originally posted by My Dreaming Hill

Just because A Momentary Lapse of Reason isn't the best Pink Floyd album that doesn't mean it can't be one of my favorites.
I would say the same thing about "Animals" by Floyd...


Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: November 04 2012 at 00:05
Originally posted by desistindo

I have a theory that only collectors listen to prog that arent a masterpiece (at least in personal taste perspective). If you can listen to a top star album, why would you listen a two star, for instance? Particularly speaking, I have many prog albums and I just linsten back to the tops. Does it occur with you too?

   yep !! all the time since 1968  !   really , i always skip so many great albums that i really appreciate but don't feel like listen to !  State of Mind   !   Cool


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Tracking Tracks of Rock


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: November 04 2012 at 03:47
When is a masterpiece a masterpiece ?? Confused


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 04 2012 at 08:57
^ If I remember correctly, there is a whole Reviews discussion thread, part of which is dedicated to exactly that.

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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: November 04 2012 at 19:54
Originally posted by Atavachron

I'm an obscure & vintage Prog buff but I know what the OP means--  sometimes you realize why certain artists faded into obscurity, and the real 'lost gems' are far and few between.

Exactly. I noticed you focused the discussion around the "masterpiece" concept. Of course it is a subjective matter, but what I was trying to explain is that, naturally, the prog you consider "low" cant get your attention for very long. And generaly, when you have explored an artist/ genre you like to the exaustion you might Appeal to the obscurities. 


Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by desistindo

I have a theory that only collectors listen to prog that arent a masterpiece (at least in personal taste perspective). If you can listen to a top star album, why would you listen a two star, for instance? Particularly speaking, I have many prog albums and I just linsten back to the tops. Does it occur with you too?

Well, you may not know that it IS a two star album the first time around.  It might be rated 4.5 on PA and might be worth only 2 to you, that's personal taste.    However, I get the point and I am also not very much interested in completism or in tracking down any and every prog rock band with a half decent rating.  I would much rather listen to some completely different music than prog rock instead of listening to the same old derivative by the numbers prog by a mediocre band.

True! The fact is: for me it is i portant not to waste the "magic" of the great prog albums by listen to them extensively! But when i comes about listen "not so great" prog albums, I do prefer listen to other kinds of music. But I found may lost gems in obscure prog and related music, but that doesnt mean I will listen the entire albm because of them. There aresome prog band from the "B class" - if we may call them as that - that has one or two really great songs, and i listen those, not the hole album. 


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Who watches the watcher of the skies?


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: November 04 2012 at 22:19
Originally posted by octopus-4

Originally posted by thellama73

No. I listen to dozens of albums that are not masterpieces. Just because something is not a masterpiece does not mean it is not enjoyable and satisfying, particularly if you are in a particular mood.

If we only listened to masterpieces, we would have very little to choose from and variety is the spice of life.
I don't need to add anything Clap

Neither do I.Clap


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: November 04 2012 at 22:23
There are some "mediocre" prog that are popular prog!

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Zizou 1988-2006


Posted By: Aquiring the Taste
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 02:43
Life is too short to spend it listening to mediocre music of any kind.
Most of my favourite Prog. Groups had their mediocre moments, so while I love their best, I am not tempted to own every album.



Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 02:51
^That I can understand, but as mentioned many times in this thread - sometimes those masterpieces don't instantly reveal themselves to you - plus tastes change and what may have sounded like sonic faeces when you first heard it, may just be a real humdinger now. Who knows?
If you don't risk listening to other music than what you deem safe and you already know to be great, then the possibilities for new discoveries will drastically decline.

Sorry for taking that further than what you probably meantEmbarrassed I too don't buy every release from my favourite acts - far too much mediocre stuff. I really don't get those collectors that keep buying material just because it's Genesis, Crimson, Floyd insert name with big discography hereBig smile


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 03:22
This great album is on P.A, but still doesn't have any review.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuSKn1F82xM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuSKn1F82xM


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 03:36
^Really?Shocked 
I happen to own that one on vinyl. Maybe I should start reviewing again in the near future - give this one some love. I do miss writing reviews.


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Aquiring the Taste
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 04:41
                     
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

^That I can understand, but as mentioned many times in this thread - sometimes those masterpieces don't instantly reveal themselves to you - plus tastes change and what may have sounded like sonic faeces when you first heard it, may just be a real humdinger now. Who knows?
If you don't risk listening to other music than what you deem safe and you already know to be great, then the possibilities for new discoveries will drastically decline.

Sorry for taking that further than what you probably meantEmbarrassed I too don't buy every release from my favourite acts - far too much mediocre stuff. I really don't get those collectors that keep buying material just because it's Genesis, Crimson, Floyd insert name with big discography hereBig smile

We are talking about two different things here, over the years i have been very adventurous, I can also tell you that it is a sado-masochistic journey.  I've sold most of my disapointments to collectors, who value them in some way that I don't.
I am an old fart, but always ready to listen to something new, original & innovative, regardless of age or country of  origin.
No offence takenBig smile[


Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 05:56
I know if I listen the first time and it feels like a 2 star album it is unlikely it will ever get to a 4 star album rating in my opinion. On the other hand a few 3 star albums initially were elevated to 4 stars cos they grew on me. A bad album thhough remains a bad album even after 20 years.

Love Beach is always going to be a dud beach
Invisible Touch is always going to Visible Slush
Giant For a Day is always going to be Junk In a Day
Works 2 is always going to be Waterworks Poo



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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 06:28
^ Right then, since I have heard three of those and agree wholeheartedly - I needn't bother with Giant for a Day then Tongue thanks in advamce for saving me Time & Money
Love Beach is possibly the worst album by a top notch progband...unless anybody has a better shout....

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Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 06:45
I know this is a a digression but I have always liked Invisible Touch. One of their best post Hackett albums. Love Beach I like too....Like Beach! Works 2, yep that has some great material on there...a hot potch but not a complete dud.

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Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 14:06
Originally posted by M27Barney

^ Right then, since I have heard three of those and agree wholeheartedly - I needn't bother with Giant for a Day then Tongue thanks in advamce for saving me Time & Money
Love Beach is possibly the worst album by a top notch progband...unless anybody has a better shout....


I like Love Beach, specially for the cover - no, kidding! I like it but not for being prog, as pop shot its nice. And I think Big Generator is far disgraceful.


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Who watches the watcher of the skies?


Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 14:09
Originally posted by hellogoodbye

This great album is on P.A, but still doesn't have any review.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuSKn1F82xM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuSKn1F82xM


I like it!! But not enterily. I would keep a track or two and save it in a collection, but definally wouldnt keep the entire album. The same for this, this is only track I like from this obscure act:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1K804MHMMo




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Who watches the watcher of the skies?


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 06 2012 at 14:17
Originally posted by Aquiring the Taste

                     
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

^That I can understand, but as mentioned many times in this thread - sometimes those masterpieces don't instantly reveal themselves to you - plus tastes change and what may have sounded like sonic faeces when you first heard it, may just be a real humdinger now. Who knows?
If you don't risk listening to other music than what you deem safe and you already know to be great, then the possibilities for new discoveries will drastically decline.

Sorry for taking that further than what you probably meantEmbarrassed I too don't buy every release from my favourite acts - far too much mediocre stuff. I really don't get those collectors that keep buying material just because it's Genesis, Crimson, Floyd insert name with big discography hereBig smile

We are talking about two different things here, over the years i have been very adventurous, I can also tell you that it is a sado-masochistic journey.  I've sold most of my disapointments to collectors, who value them in some way that I don't.
I am an old fart, but always ready to listen to something new, original & innovative, regardless of age or country of  origin.
No offence takenBig smile[

Clap I am too on the adventurous route.


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 07 2012 at 03:55
Why listen to mediocre prog at all? Of course it all boils down to someone's trash is another persons treasure. In the end there is a broad band of music out there and you just can't do everything....


Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: November 07 2012 at 04:55
This is pretty much how I feel about music in general. At one point I just started to feel like listening to anything that isn't truly fantastic just isn't a worthy investment of my time when there's so much really great music I can always find that I really find it hard to bother with things I don't really dig. 


Posted By: zoviet
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 02:25
The best gets really boring after a while, need some crappy stuff to clear em ears out!!!!!


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 02:36
Originally posted by timothy leary


Originally posted by Guldbamsen


Originally posted by timothy leary


[QUOTE=Guldbamsen]
"Plastic surgery attack victim claims he had his ears replaced in the darkness of night"
Edit: I was aiming at Mr Leary hereEmbarrassed
[/QUOTE}
How could you tell?Smile

Those awful stitchingsTongue

Actually my wife probably sees the Sennheiser Hd 595's as my ears as much as they are on my head. We are big on hand signals.


Lol. I'm the laughing stock at my house where by I wear the giant salad bowls that are the Sennheiser HD 800's. I live in those cans of heaven!!

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How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 03:40
Originally posted by zoviet

The best gets really boring after a while, need some crappy stuff to clear em ears out!!!!!

Sometimes I do feel like doing that. Just heard Michael Rother's "Flammende Herzen", and it's not too bad, actually.


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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 07:04
The fact that an album is not considered a "masterpiece" does not mean is not good or that it won't be a pleasurable experience to listen too. Many albums that are not so important and considered mediocre have a lot to offer too, and you can enjoy the sincere efforts by a band/artist to put it together, specially when you know how hard it is to write a piece of music, arrange it, orchestrate it, etc. It takes way more than you might think, and if you appreciate the sincere efforts put by an artist to write an album, you'll have a great time listening, and will make you appreciate your masterpieces much more.


Posted By: Nick Dilley
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 12:35
Originally posted by HolyMoly

I love listening to stuff that I know sucks.  It's all part of my grand educational project.  Then again, I am a collector, so I'd still fit in the scheme of the OP's premise.   I can't speak for more casual consumers.


I feel the same way. Lots of my listening nowadays is geared toward my personal education as a listener. I do return to what I consider masterpiece albums or recordings all the time to remind myself of divine creations in music, though. That's only natural. But it's important to note that even things that aren't masterpieces or even those things that really do suck have all sorts of value in them.


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Progging the Rock, Rocking the Prog.

soundcloud.com/withinareverie
withinareverie.blogspot.com
facebook.com/withinareverie
Twitter: @WithinaReverie


Posted By: Nick Dilley
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 12:36
Originally posted by Manuel

The fact that an album is not considered a "masterpiece" does not mean is not good or that it won't be a pleasurable experience to listen too. Many albums that are not so important and considered mediocre have a lot to offer too, and you can enjoy the sincere efforts by a band/artist to put it together, specially when you know how hard it is to write a piece of music, arrange it, orchestrate it, etc. It takes way more than you might think, and if you appreciate the sincere efforts put by an artist to write an album, you'll have a great time listening, and will make you appreciate your masterpieces much more.


this, too, is kinda what I meant.


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Progging the Rock, Rocking the Prog.

soundcloud.com/withinareverie
withinareverie.blogspot.com
facebook.com/withinareverie
Twitter: @WithinaReverie


Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 12:42
So far I consider 44 albums to be perfect  masterpieces. I'd get pretty bored of music if I only listened to 44 albums.

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The greatest record label of all time!


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 12:43
Originally posted by smartpatrol

So far I consider 44 albums to be perfect  masterpieces. I'd get pretty bored of music if I only listened to 44 albums.


Which 44?


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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 12:43
Originally posted by thellama73

Originally posted by smartpatrol

So far I consider 44 albums to be perfect  masterpieces. I'd get pretty bored of music if I only listened to 44 albums.


Which 44?


http://rateyourmusic.com/collection/smartpatrol/r5.0" rel="nofollow - These


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http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">
The greatest record label of all time!


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 12:48
Originally posted by smartpatrol

Originally posted by thellama73

Originally posted by smartpatrol

So far I consider 44 albums to be perfect  masterpieces. I'd get pretty bored of music if I only listened to 44 albums.


Which 44?


http://rateyourmusic.com/collection/smartpatrol/r5.0" rel="nofollow - These


I only own 13 of those (although I have more.) I guess I have some work to do. Also, you can't put EPs and demo tapes on the list, that is against the rules. If you can do that you might as well put singles on as well, which is plainly ridiculous.


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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 12:49
Mediocre at best^Ying Yang


Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 12:49
Originally posted by thellama73

Originally posted by smartpatrol

Originally posted by thellama73

Originally posted by smartpatrol

So far I consider 44 albums to be perfect  masterpieces. I'd get pretty bored of music if I only listened to 44 albums.


Which 44?


http://rateyourmusic.com/collection/smartpatrol/r5.0" rel="nofollow - These


I only own 13 of those (although I have more.) I guess I have some work to do. Also, you can't put EPs and demo tapes on the list, that is against the rules. If you can do that you might as well put singles on as well, which is plainly ridiculous.


It's a list of my 5 star ratings.


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http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">
The greatest record label of all time!


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 12:55
Originally posted by smartpatrol

Originally posted by thellama73

Originally posted by smartpatrol

Originally posted by thellama73

Originally posted by smartpatrol

So far I consider 44 albums to be perfect  masterpieces. I'd get pretty bored of music if I only listened to 44 albums.


Which 44?


http://rateyourmusic.com/collection/smartpatrol/r5.0" rel="nofollow - These


I only own 13 of those (although I have more.) I guess I have some work to do. Also, you can't put EPs and demo tapes on the list, that is against the rules. If you can do that you might as well put singles on as well, which is plainly ridiculous.


It's a list of my 5 star ratings.


I say The Beatles' Hits, Devo Live, the Permafrost EP, They Might Be Giants' Demo Tape and the Strawberyy Alarm Clock single don't count as albums. I'm on the fence about Let It Be...Naked, but I'm in a generous mood so you can have that one. That makes 39 albums you find perfect masterpieces.


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Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 13:10
hmm I feel like if i counted up all hte albums i consider masterpieces there would be waaay more than 44... maybe I'm too generous though? Or maybe I'm simply too confident about how good my music taste is :P


Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 13:35
Originally posted by smartpatrol

So far I consider 44 albums to be perfect  masterpieces. I'd get pretty bored of music if I only listened to 44 albums.
Well I only concur with three of those. Of the rest -  I have to be honest I wouldn't even consider listening to most of them and since this is a prog site, and I am most impressed with symphonic progressive rock - I'll bet most on here would be able to guess which three I picked....
This would be more of my top albums (I have to love everything or only a single track is deficient)
12 perfect efforts I reckon....
Genesis. Foxtrot, Selling England By the Pound (2)
Yes, Close to the Edge, Tales From Topographic Oceans (4)
Camel, Moonmadness (5)
Transatlantic, The Whirlwind (6)
Flower Kings, Banks of Eden (7)
IQ, Dark Matter (8)
Anima Mundi , The Way (9)
Rush, Hemispheres (10)
Agents of Mercy, The Dark Forest (11)
Galleon, From Land to Ocean (12)
 
 


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Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 13:55
People need to realise that a good album, or an excellent album, are just that - good and excellent. In two star albums, there will also be stuff that you enjoy on them. There is a reason why the site's guidelines discourage you from giving too many albums one or five star ratings. It is because utter masterpieces or utter sh##bags of albums should be very rare. There will almost always be something of merit on an otherwise poor album, and, equally, masterpieces should be in the minority - a clear minority, because they are rare. When I see someone giving a high number of five star reviews, I tend to ignore those reviews.

Some people are in the mindset that something they find extremely enjoyable is, de facto, a masterpiece. It ain't.

The joy I get from this site is the opportunity to listen to music I would not otherwise hear. Most of the time, such stuff gives me a great deal of pleasure.


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In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent.


Posted By: Warthur
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 15:16
Originally posted by desistindo

I have a theory that only collectors listen to prog that arent a masterpiece (at least in personal taste perspective). If you can listen to a top star album, why would you listen a two star, for instance? Particularly speaking, I have many prog albums and I just linsten back to the tops. Does it occur with you too?
Personally, I don't hold onto albums if I've rated them at three stars or less unless I am particularly in love with some of the songs on them. Which isn't to say I don't give them a chance - I always make sure to give albums one last listen before pulling the trigger on them - but in general, an album at least needs to be comfortably above average to be a "keeper" in my book.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 15:58
In this day and age you can try out lots of stuff with little effort. Mediocre is in the eye of the beholder. In the end you have to make judgements but don't slam another's musical tastes.


Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 16:07
Originally posted by thellama73


I say The Beatles' Hits, Devo Live, the Permafrost EP, They Might Be Giants' Demo Tape and the Strawberyy Alarm Clock single don't count as albums. I'm on the fence about Let It Be...Naked, but I'm in a generous mood so you can have that one. That makes 39 albums you find perfect masterpieces.


well, that makes my point even better.


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The greatest record label of all time!


Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 17:53
Originally posted by lazland

Some people are in the mindset that something they find extremely enjoyable is, de facto, a masterpiece. It ain't.

I would call an album I find extremely and consistently enjoyable a masterpiece. What else is a masterpiece if not that?


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 08 2012 at 21:51
Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul

Originally posted by lazland

Some people are in the mindset that something they find extremely enjoyable is, de facto, a masterpiece. It ain't.

I would call an album I find extremely and consistently enjoyable a masterpiece. What else is a masterpiece if not that?

Consider all the other factors that make a masterwork what it is: novelty, the extent of progginess, its historical importance, etc.

Originally posted by timothy leary

Mediocre at best^

What is, exactly?


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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 09 2012 at 00:28
Yesterday I had a lot of pleasure listening to The Final Cut. Nobody thinks it's a masterpiece, probably neither Roger Waters. If I'm in the right mood I can like even "Are You Ready Eddie?" I'm reviewing all the about 100 albums of Senmuth and just a couple of them are very good. I have given 5 stars only to "Pat Hof Neu Rog Ene Sis" if I remember correctly, but I have listened with some pleasure to the other 99.
 
However the thread is about "mediocre prog", not "masterpieces". So I think the question is about why listening to 2-stars albums. Well, I have rated GTR with 1 star only, but sometimes I listen to it as well and I have relistened to it carefully again when I reviewed it. I still believe that it's a 1-star album but I sometimes listen to Sex Pistols, too.
 


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 09 2012 at 03:42
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

Consider all the other factors that make a masterwork what it is: novelty, the extent of progginess, its historical importance, etc.

None of these have anything to do with "masterpiece" status. If that were the case, I could only give five stars to the usual suspects: Close to the Edge, Thick as a Brick, Foxtrot etc. I don't buy into the notion that an album that had no impact on the prog scene whatsoever can't be a masterpiece.


Posted By: Neelus
Date Posted: November 09 2012 at 04:11
Web definitions for:

a) masterpiece -  1.A work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship. 2. An artist's or craftsman's best piece of work.
b) popularity - The state or condition of being liked, admired, or supported by many people.

I think there is definitely a distinction between a and b above. Tongue
a is subjective, b is objective


Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 09 2012 at 05:37
Nobody spoke of popularity.


Posted By: Neelus
Date Posted: November 09 2012 at 05:39
Then I must have misinterpreted your mentioning of  "usual suspects". My bad.


Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 09 2012 at 05:42
"Usual suspects" referred to the most historically significant prog albums. It just so happens that they're also the most popular ones.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 09 2012 at 05:45
Why must you listen to mediocre prog even if you are a collector?


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: November 09 2012 at 06:43
Originally posted by Slartibartfast

Why must you listen to mediocre prog even if you are a collector?
 Big smile
Looking forward to the upcomming "Wakeman plays Liberace" 32-CD-BOX-set


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My Music: www.jokeinc.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - www.jokeinc.bandcamp.com
My blog: www.tamijo2013.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - www.tamijo2013.wordpress.com



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