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Let's Talk About Queensr˙che -Operation: Mindcrime

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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Discription: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90627
Printed Date: September 30 2014 at 18:58
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Topic: Let's Talk About Queensr˙che -Operation: Mindcrime
Posted By: rushfan4
Subject: Let's Talk About Queensr˙che -Operation: Mindcrime
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 09:31
A while back I started a series of threads which tried to promote a discussion about newly released albums that may or may not have been well known in hopes of bringing these albums to the attention of PA forum members, and also in hopes of doing a sort of "book of the month" discussion about these albums.  These threads met with limited success with most of them only receiving minimal participation, but I think that those who regularly participated in them did get some enjoyment out of them, and some people may even have discovered albums that they may otherwise not have known about.  I am considering revisiting that concept in the future, but for the time being, I have decided to try something new and maybe create a series of discussion threads to discuss "classic" albums. 
 
Anyone who pays any attention to the "What Am I Listening To Now?" threads has probably noticed my recent Queensr˙che marathon and being in that state of mind I have decided to try out this thread concept with their classic spy concept album Operation: Mindcrime.  I think that many, if not most, forum members are familiar with this album, and that it is generally considered to be Queensr˙che's best album.  Why is this?  Is it the music?  Is it the concept? Is it Geoff Tate's golden pipes?  Is it because of sexual fantasies involving nuns and guns?   
 
At any rate my hope is that maybe this thread will result in a nice interactive discussion regarding this album and its place in prog rock/metal history.  Your feelings.  Your thoughts on the concept.  Your thoughts on your enjoyment or disappointment with Part 2.  Favorite individual tracks and whether or not they should be heard separately or whether it is a requirement to listen to the whole album.
 
 
 
I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.


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Replies:
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 10:56
I bought this album when it originally came out, having already owned their first two releases.  Honestly?  Though I thought the concept was very interesting, I found the album itself to be a bit lacking compared to their previous.  Not exactly sure why.  Maybe I was a bit annoyed at it obviously being a metal version of The Wall.  I haven't listened to it in quite a while, so I probably should do that before I comment further!

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Frank Swarbrick
--
Belief is not Truth.


Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 12:21
The only Queensr˙che album I've heard. It's a really good album, IMO, but I feel it loses some steam after The Needle Lies which it doesn't pick up again until the last song, Eyes of a Stranger. Track 1-9 and 15 are excellent though.

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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 12:35
I'm listening to it for the first time right now.  It's rockin' and catchy.  No idea what the concept is about, but musically it's fun and engaging. And the singer sounds a little like Rob Halford, which is cool too.


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My other avatar is a Porsche / http://raregoat.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - RARE GOAT bandcamp page

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 14:24
Good album, and one of the first essential albums in Progressive Metal. I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, but it is very good.

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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: menawati
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 14:44
One of my favourite albums of all time. Just brilliant.

I usually listen all the way through.
Faves are Eyes of a Stranger, Needle Lies and Spreading the Disease.


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They flutter behind you your possible pasts,
Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.


Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 14:59
One of the first albums I ever fell in love with. I like each song. My favorites would be Speak, Spreading the Disease, The Needle Lies and Eyes of a Stranger.

Lately I've grown to prefer Promised Land, but I'll always enjoy playing Mindcrime through from beginning to end. 


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He gave her his town house and his racing horses. Each meal she ate was a dozen courses. She had a million dollars worth of nickels and dimes. She sat around and counted them all a million times.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 15:09

Curious your thoughts on the concept.  I believe that the gist of the story is that Nikki becomes a hit man for Dr. X who is the leader of the revolution.  The idea being that the underground intends to overthrow the corrupt 1%.  It appears as though Nikki has carried out various hits for Dr. X.   Dr. X orders Nikki to kill the nun, Mary, as well as the priest, Father William, because they know too much.  Not sure if they were part of the revolution, or if Nikki had confided in them about what he had done, and by so doing they became a liability.  Mary had worked as a prostitute and Father William had "saved her from the streets", but "he takes her once a week on the alter like a sacrifice", which I assume means that the Father is being unpriestly.  Nikki does kill the priest, but he tells Mary that he was sent to kill her and that he wants to run away with her.  He tells Dr. X that he quits, and of course Dr. X tells him that he can't quit.  When Nikki gets back to Mary he finds her dead. (I believe that Dr. X had her killed and that Nikki didn't do it, unless he did it through mind control.  Anyhow, he gets arrested.  He doesn't believe in love, and he is placed in a straight jacket and placed on sedatives.       

Is there a hidden story behind the story?  Did these things really happen or is he just insane?  Did he do these things because he was on drugs? 
 
I'm curious how others interpret the story.


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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 15:13
I always thought it could be insanity. That's one interpretation. The entire album is supposed to take place between the span of a single minute in the mind of the main character, Nikki. The idea is that he relives these mad visions each minute for years. I think many of the songs could be taken without the overall concept. 'Speak' is a vicious (but real vague) political attack. Always liked that line 'burn the white-house down'. They already tried that, but hey!

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He gave her his town house and his racing horses. Each meal she ate was a dozen courses. She had a million dollars worth of nickels and dimes. She sat around and counted them all a million times.


Posted By: menawati
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 15:31
Gotta admit I never analysed the concept much, it's the jabbing riffs, great melodies, killer solos, Geoff in top form and overall consistency from start to finish that made me love it.

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They flutter behind you your possible pasts,
Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 15:40
I've always liked the idea of the concept but can't say that I had really ever fully got it.  I certainly agree that I have always enjoyed the overall sound.

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Posted By: Ytse_Jam
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 16:54
I consider it to be one of the few QR's albums that deserve multiple listens, if not the only. 


Posted By: menawati
Date Posted: November 16 2012 at 18:05
For anyone who likes classic period Queensryche check Lethal out they were excellent and very similair in some ways.

[TUBE]y-Jse7VHMW0[/TUBE]


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They flutter behind you your possible pasts,
Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 17 2012 at 08:38
Not bad.  Kind of had an early Iron Maiden sound too. 

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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: November 17 2012 at 08:44
I only have Empire :(, but i got the Operation Mindcrime concert on DVD

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Acting on your best behaviour
Turn your back on mother nature
Everybody wants to rule the world


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 17 2012 at 08:59
That's cool.  I don't have the DVD but intend on getting at least one of their live shows.

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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: November 17 2012 at 09:24
Operation Mindcrime and Empire is rated equal on Allmusic, 4/5 star Approve

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Acting on your best behaviour
Turn your back on mother nature
Everybody wants to rule the world


Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: November 17 2012 at 11:16
There's nothing to talk about, really. 


Except that it is a groundbreaking, timeless and one of the best progressive metal albums EVER.

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Posted By: Ytse_Jam
Date Posted: November 17 2012 at 16:22
Crimson Glory is also a must for Queensryche fans.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 17 2012 at 17:41
Originally posted by sleeper

Good album, and one of the first essential albums in Progressive Metal. I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, but it is very good.
 
 
+1
 
I second this opinion!
 
Their tour with Dream Theater was excellent ... and that rendition of Who Are You, was tops ... and one of the few renditions of The Who, that are worth hearing.
 
PS: I honestly do not like the label "progressive metal" ... why? ... if you listen to Gong's You, on side 2, you have the same thing ... loud rock music ... just missing the compression and the lousy drumming, of course! And there is a lot of Hawkwind that would/could/should be considered "progressive metal" as well ... but suggesting that Mindcrime's lyrics are more important than Hawkwind's ... is scary ... they are all good in their own way ... specially when it is at least 25 years apart!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Jbird
Date Posted: November 17 2012 at 18:22
Great album!

I never did figure out if he killed priest/Mary, or if someone else did, etc. I just never delved into it too deeply.

My favorite track on it has to be 'I Don't Believe In Love', I just think the chord progression sounds cool Smile


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 18 2012 at 10:05
I think that he killed the priest.  In Mindcrime at the Moore, it seems as though Dr. X forced Mary into killing herself because she thought that Dr. X would kill Nikki otherwise.  I haven't caught that part listening to the album, so I am not sure if that is how it sounds or that was an update they did live. I'll have to relisten to that part of the album a little closer.

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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: November 21 2012 at 11:29
Great thread. Yeah, MINDCRIME is still to this day my favourite conceptual album. It's absolutely brilliant and I love how Geoff Tate got the inspiration at an old church In MONTRČAL to write the lyrics and come up with story itself. I was in Montrčal last weekend and I thought of that. :)

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How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: November 21 2012 at 21:47
I've "changed my mind".  I listened to it the other day and it really is quite a wonderful album.  A bit long, but that's about the only bad thing that can be said.
(Even inspired me to change my sig.)


-------------
Frank Swarbrick
--
Belief is not Truth.


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: November 21 2012 at 22:07
Originally posted by rushfan4

Curious your thoughts on the concept.  I believe that the gist of the story is that Nikki becomes a hit man for Dr. X who is the leader of the revolution.  The idea being that the underground intends to overthrow the corrupt 1%.  It appears as though Nikki has carried out various hits for Dr. X.   Dr. X orders Nikki to kill the nun, Mary, as well as the priest, Father William, because they know too much.  Not sure if they were part of the revolution, or if Nikki had confided in them about what he had done, and by so doing they became a liability.  Mary had worked as a prostitute and Father William had "saved her from the streets", but "he takes her once a week on the alter like a sacrifice", which I assume means that the Father is being unpriestly.  Nikki does kill the priest, but he tells Mary that he was sent to kill her and that he wants to run away with her.  He tells Dr. X that he quits, and of course Dr. X tells him that he can't quit.  When Nikki gets back to Mary he finds her dead. (I believe that Dr. X had her killed and that Nikki didn't do it, unless he did it through mind control.  Anyhow, he gets arrested.  He doesn't believe in love, and he is placed in a straight jacket and placed on sedatives.       



Is there a hidden story behind the story?  Did these things really happen or is he just insane?  Did he do these things because he was on drugs? 



 

I'm curious how others interpret the story.


Yup. You got it. You know what's happening for sure. ;) it's such a great story and it's so politically charged. You can really feel what's going on in the music story wise. Very few concept albums out there really make you feel as engaged of what's happening in a story in relation to the music. I can only think of a few others that do. 1) THE HUMAN EQUATION 2) SCENES OF A MEMORY. 3) SAVIOUR MACHINE's LEGEND PT1-3 Those are true concept albums, but MINDCRIME really takes the crown for me as being #1. Also. The video's are great too! Oh and FYI those eye brows of dr. X's are real!! Lol

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How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 05 2013 at 17:41

Speak to me....the pain you feel....speak to me....the pain you feel...speak the word...the word is all of us...Revolution.

 
Given this album another listen.  It is just so good.


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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: February 05 2013 at 20:56
Most played album as a teenager. Good concept, great songs. Favorite : Eyes of a Stranger.

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Have you seen them Khajiits?


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: February 08 2013 at 19:06

I dude I used to work with was massively in to Queensryche.  He lent me a stack of their CD's to listen to, Operation Mindcrime being one of them.  I didn't really get into them - they reminded me of 'hair-metal' albeit with considerable chops.........



Posted By: Xerath101
Date Posted: February 10 2013 at 09:55
I will always love this album. Make sure to give Operation LIVEcrime a try. Has fantastic production and is performed flawlessly. Also pick up the DVD version!


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: February 10 2013 at 13:42
It's the only album I got from them, not too bad but a bit too hair-metal for my taste too, had it been released in 1980 it could have impressed me more but by the time it came out it felt like that kind of stuff was already over for me.


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: February 10 2013 at 14:46
Never heard it, i have no interest in doing so either though.

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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 10 2013 at 15:36
'O: M' is good, but 'rage for order' remains their best though.

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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)


Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: February 10 2013 at 16:27
^ Lucas has a point, Rage for Order is the proggiest

My favs from O:M are The Mission and Suite Sister Mary


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"Prog Heavy Petting" show - every Monday 7-9pm UK time on http://www.justincaseradio.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.justincaseradio.com , the first progressive radio in Greece


Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: September 02 2013 at 14:37
Watched the Operation: LIVEcrime DVD again the other day. On the 2001 edition, that I have, there's a bonus feature I hadn't watched before, a libretto, called The LIVEcrime Story, that goes thrugh the story stage by stage, though not too detailed, it still leaves some things too the imagination.

Originally posted by rushfan4

Dr. X orders Nikki to kill the nun, Mary, as well as the priest, Father William, because they know too much. Not sure if they were part of the revolution, or if Nikki had confided in them about what he had done, and by so doing they became a liability.
In the libretto it says about Mary that she was introduced by Father William to DR. X when she was eighteen, and that "now she works for him".

Originally posted by rushfan4

Mary had worked as a prostitute and Father William had "saved her from the streets", but "he takes her once a week on the alter like a sacrifice", which I assume means that the Father is being unpriestly. Nikki does kill the priest, but he tells Mary that he was sent to kill her and that he wants to run away with her. He tells Dr. X that he quits, and of course Dr. X tells him that he can't quit. When Nikki gets back to Mary he finds her dead. (I believe that Dr. X had her killed and that Nikki didn't do it, unless he did it through mind control.
Originally posted by rushfan4

I think that he killed the priest. In Mindcrime at the Moore, it seems as though Dr. X forced Mary into killing herself because she thought that Dr. X would kill Nikki otherwise. I haven't caught that part listening to the album, so I am not sure if that is how it sounds or that was an update they did live. I'll have to relisten to that part of the album a little closer.
Yes, he kills the priest, but he doesn't kill Mary, I think. I always thought it was DR. X who got Mary killed, but, according to the libretto, after Nikki leaves to kill DR. X, "Mary is plagued by vision of Nikki's turning into Father William...Once, she thought Nikki was her hope. But now he seemed like all the rest...(of the) men who had used her, degraded and beaten her, and driven their hatred and coldness into her heart". When Nikki returns from his unsuccessful meating with DR. X "he finds her dead in her room". This does suggest suicide, but perhaps for a different reason than the one you say is given in Mindcrime at the Moore; grief.

The libretto says nothing that suggests DR. X forced Mary into killing herself, so it's probably, as you say, an update they did live, unless some answers aren given in O:M II, haven't heard that one.

Originally posted by rushfan4

Is there a hidden story behind the story? Did these things really happen or is he just insane? Did he do these things because he was on drugs?
Originally posted by Alitare

I always thought it could be insanity. That's one interpretation.
Yeah, it could be drugs or insanity, or both.

Originally posted by Alitare

The entire album is supposed to take place between the span of a single minute in the mind of the main character, Nikki. The idea is that he relives these mad visions each minute for years.
Yeah, it seams like it. The libretto starts at 6.00 PM and ends on 6.01 PM where it says "I remember now" under a picture of DR. X, so that suggests it starts all over again.

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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 02 2013 at 22:27
I've been getting some more prog metal recently (before I mainly only knew Dream Theater, and some Ayreon, and if you consider them prog metal, bands like Rhapsody, Nightwish, Epica, etc, though I didn't get them because of any prog metal credentials). However, I just got some Pain of Salvation, Riverside, Haken, Symphony X. Besides getting a few more albums from this same bands, one of the things I have next in my to get list is this very album because of it's reputation (and Tool's "Laterallus" too, I guess).


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 00:59
Originally posted by Horizons


Never heard it, i have no interest in doing so either though.


Oh mr. New math...what's wrong, you afraid you might love something from 1988?

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How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 01:02
Originally posted by Dellinger

I've been getting some more prog metal recently (before I mainly only knew Dream Theater, and some Ayreon, and if you consider them prog metal, bands like Rhapsody, Nightwish, Epica, etc, though I didn't get them because of any prog metal credentials). However, I just got some Pain of Salvation, Riverside, Haken, Symphony X. Besides getting a few more albums from this same bands, one of the things I have next in my to get list is this very album because of it's reputation (and Tool's "Laterallus" too, I guess).


On the right track mr. Dude Dellinger.

Hey. Check out Animals as Leaders, Devin Townsend and Agalloch.
More on the experimental side of prog metal, but I'm sure it'll blow your hair back. ;)


-------------
How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 01:06
I like the 1991 live album performance of Mindcrime the best....it's Livecrime!
Nothing beats it, bit even the studio version of the album. ;)


-------------
How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 01:08
Originally posted by progbethyname

I like the 1991 live album performance of Mindcrime the best....it's Livecrime!
Nothing beats it, bit even the studio version of the album. ;)


Sorry meant to say 'better than.' f**king auto correct. Lol

-------------
How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 02:12
I've never heard this album, nor any Queensryche except for the current radio staples. Generally good reviews?


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 09:18
Originally posted by Metalmarsh89

I've never heard this album, nor any Queensryche except for the current radio staples. Generally good reviews?



^ I've seen what you've been listening to, and long story short your gonna love it.
Forget the Mindcrime 2 bullsh*t. It's garbage compared to the first installment.

Anyway, if you really adore prog metal mixed with some power metal influences MindCrime will blow you away. It's one of the very best albums in its field. An easy 5 star rating. Also, their are some very cool editions of the album you can buy now. ;)

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How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 09:27
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Metalmarsh89

I've never heard this album, nor any Queensryche except for the current radio staples. Generally good reviews?



^ I've seen what you've been listening to, and long story short your gonna love it.
Forget the Mindcrime 2 bullsh*t. It's garbage compared to the first installment.

Anyway, if you really adore prog metal mixed with some power metal influences MindCrime will blow you away. It's one of the very best albums in its field. An easy 5 star rating. Also, their are some very cool editions of the album you can buy now. ;)


Ok. Looked it up to be sure.

Operation Mindcrime (deluxe edition 2cd plus 1 DVD set) is still available for around 25$ to 30$.
Also, if you don't have The Queensr˙che ep 'queen of the Ryche' get the Warrior edition. That one looks pretty cool.
I've got the deluxe edition and it is incredible. The 2nd disc is a live performance of the entire album at the hammersmith odeon in 1989. Brilliant performance!

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How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 14:28
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Dellinger

I've been getting some more prog metal recently (before I mainly only knew Dream Theater, and some Ayreon, and if you consider them prog metal, bands like Rhapsody, Nightwish, Epica, etc, though I didn't get them because of any prog metal credentials). However, I just got some Pain of Salvation, Riverside, Haken, Symphony X. Besides getting a few more albums from this same bands, one of the things I have next in my to get list is this very album because of it's reputation (and Tool's "Laterallus" too, I guess).


On the right track mr. Dude Dellinger.

Hey. Check out Animals as Leaders, Devin Townsend and Agalloch.
More on the experimental side of prog metal, but I'm sure it'll blow your hair back. ;)


Yeah, I've been interested on Animals as Leaders also, though that would be for after getting the albums I said. I have even been somewhat interested in Devin Townsend too, but I don't really like grunting and growling and such things, and I believe he does some of that, so I'm not really sure I'd like him... I think the album I thought from him is "Terria", in case I decided to give him a try, but I'd like to know more about how much extreme vocals he uses. I hadn't thoght about Agalloch, though I believe I'd read something about them, yet not so sure. Oh yeah, another band I might be wanting to get something from is Fates Warning, since I've read they are suposed to be the fathers of Prog Metal along with Queensryche (or perhaps I could say both this bands are the grandparents of prog metal, and Dream Theater are the fathers?).


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 14:32
Originally posted by progbethyname

I like the 1991 live album performance of Mindcrime the best....it's Livecrime!
Nothing beats it, bit even the studio version of the album. ;)


Yeah, I found about the live version of the album, but I thought it would be better to get the original studio one. However, I must admit it's not unusual that I like live versions of songs better... and even live versions of albums. Mainly I like it when the music is performed with more energy and extended instrumental passages. So, in the end, should I actually better get the live version instead of the studio one?


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 14:42
Originally posted by Dellinger

Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Dellinger

I've been getting some more prog metal recently (before I mainly only knew Dream Theater, and some Ayreon, and if you consider them prog metal, bands like Rhapsody, Nightwish, Epica, etc, though I didn't get them because of any prog metal credentials). However, I just got some Pain of Salvation, Riverside, Haken, Symphony X. Besides getting a few more albums from this same bands, one of the things I have next in my to get list is this very album because of it's reputation (and Tool's "Laterallus" too, I guess).


On the right track mr. Dude Dellinger.

Hey. Check out Animals as Leaders, Devin Townsend and Agalloch.
More on the experimental side of prog metal, but I'm sure it'll blow your hair back. ;)


Yeah, I've been interested on Animals as Leaders also, though that would be for after getting the albums I said. I have even been somewhat interested in Devin Townsend too, but I don't really like grunting and growling and such things, and I believe he does some of that, so I'm not really sure I'd like him... I think the album I thought from him is "Terria", in case I decided to give him a try, but I'd like to know more about how much extreme vocals he uses. I hadn't thoght about Agalloch, though I believe I'd read something about them, yet not so sure. Oh yeah, another band I might be wanting to get something from is Fates Warning, since I've read they are suposed to be the fathers of Prog Metal along with Queensryche (or perhaps I could say both this bands are the grandparents of prog metal, and Dream Theater are the fathers?).
Have you listened to King's X?  They have output from the same time period that I consider part of the building blocks to prog metal. 


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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 14:47
Originally posted by Dellinger

Originally posted by progbethyname

I like the 1991 live album performance of Mindcrime the best....it's Livecrime!
Nothing beats it, bit even the studio version of the album. ;)


Yeah, I found about the live version of the album, but I thought it would be better to get the original studio one. However, I must admit it's not unusual that I like live versions of songs better... and even live versions of albums. Mainly I like it when the music is performed with more energy and extended instrumental passages. So, in the end, should I actually better get the live version instead of the studio one?


Get it all man!!! Their is still a great deluxe version of Mincrime that houses a live version and original studio recording of the album. Also contains a DVD documentary and videos as well. ;)
Priced around 25$-30$ u.s but it's all you need man. Highly worth it. ;)

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How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 15:05
Let's not forget that Queensryche ended in 1994 - any discussion beyond that year will be considered heretic Angry

By the way, to reply to the OP, I think it is the pristine performance of the band and the passion that Tate sings that make this album so unique - his connection to the concept is obvious


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"Prog Heavy Petting" show - every Monday 7-9pm UK time on http://www.justincaseradio.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.justincaseradio.com , the first progressive radio in Greece


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 15:15
Originally posted by aapatsos

Let's not forget that Queensryche ended in 1994 - any discussion beyond that year will be considered heretic AngryBy the way, to reply to the OP, I think it is the pristine performance of the band and the passion that Tate sings that make this album so unique - his connection to the concept is obvious



I couldn't agree with you more about Queensr˙che not doing anything wonderful or even listenable for the last 19 years.

But, there is one little glimmer of hope now. Have you heard X2 minus Tate?

I was shocked when I listen to it because it's not that bad, but it isn't great either.
My point is that it is listenable and I haven't been able to go through an entire Ryche album in years!
It's the best album Queensr˙che have done in 19 years. I'd give it a 3/5.
Check out the songs Open road, spore and Where Dreams Go to Die.
I'd love to know what you think I mean because Queensr˙che really played it safe and strongly reverted back to their old sound. 39min album too!

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How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 21:26
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Dellinger

Originally posted by progbethyname

I like the 1991 live album performance of Mindcrime the best....it's Livecrime!
Nothing beats it, bit even the studio version of the album. ;)


Yeah, I found about the live version of the album, but I thought it would be better to get the original studio one. However, I must admit it's not unusual that I like live versions of songs better... and even live versions of albums. Mainly I like it when the music is performed with more energy and extended instrumental passages. So, in the end, should I actually better get the live version instead of the studio one?


Get it all man!!! Their is still a great deluxe version of Mincrime that houses a live version and original studio recording of the album. Also contains a DVD documentary and videos as well. ;)
Priced around 25$-30$ u.s but it's all you need man. Highly worth it. ;)


Thanks!!! I guess when I get around looking for that album, I'll check out this edition you say, sounds interesting.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 03 2013 at 21:29
Originally posted by rushfan4


Originally posted by Dellinger

Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Dellinger

I've been getting some more prog metal recently (before I mainly only knew Dream Theater, and some Ayreon, and if you consider them prog metal, bands like Rhapsody, Nightwish, Epica, etc, though I didn't get them because of any prog metal credentials). However, I just got some Pain of Salvation, Riverside, Haken, Symphony X. Besides getting a few more albums from this same bands, one of the things I have next in my to get list is this very album because of it's reputation (and Tool's "Laterallus" too, I guess).


On the right track mr. Dude Dellinger.

Hey. Check out Animals as Leaders, Devin Townsend and Agalloch.
More on the experimental side of prog metal, but I'm sure it'll blow your hair back. ;)


Yeah, I've been interested on Animals as Leaders also, though that would be for after getting the albums I said. I have even been somewhat interested in Devin Townsend too, but I don't really like grunting and growling and such things, and I believe he does some of that, so I'm not really sure I'd like him... I think the album I thought from him is "Terria", in case I decided to give him a try, but I'd like to know more about how much extreme vocals he uses. I hadn't thoght about Agalloch, though I believe I'd read something about them, yet not so sure. Oh yeah, another band I might be wanting to get something from is Fates Warning, since I've read they are suposed to be the fathers of Prog Metal along with Queensryche (or perhaps I could say both this bands are the grandparents of prog metal, and Dream Theater are the fathers?).
Have you listened to King's X?  They have output from the same time period that I consider part of the building blocks to prog metal. 


No, I haven't heard them. Though I have heard about them... not much really, but I did know about their existence. I guess I'll check them out, though first I check out Queensryche, then Fates Warning, and then Kings X.


Posted By: Nighteyes
Date Posted: September 13 2013 at 03:12
This was actually one of the very first records I bought, around 1999 or so when I first got into metal (I was about 15 years old)... I had been listening to Iron Maiden and Metallica, and went into the record store and started browsing...  I'd never heard of Queensryche, but I loved the cover.  Really awesome local music store (which has since turned into a butchers shop Angry)

I asked the owner if I could put it on, listened to the first few tracks and was like "I need this album in my life!!"

I still give it the occasional play now, some of the tracks are definitely stronger than others...  The song which always gives me goosebumps is the last one, Eyes Of A Stranger... Just a fantastic song.

I didn't really consider it 'prog metal' at the time, just a really cool metal album.  Looking back on my early music choices from my teenage years I always gravitated towards the more proggy stuff without even realizing it!...  Sub-consious at work perhaps?

Great album, and a really good 'gateway' album for progressive material...


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: September 14 2013 at 01:22
Originally posted by Nighteyes

This was actually one of the very first records I bought, around 1999 or so when I first got into metal (I was about 15 years old)... I had been listening to Iron Maiden and Metallica, and went into the record store and started browsing...  I'd never heard of Queensryche, but I loved the cover.  Really awesome local music store (which has since turned into a butchers shop Angry)I asked the owner if I could put it on, listened to the first few tracks and was like "I need this album in my life!!"I still give it the occasional play now, some of the tracks are definitely stronger than others...  The song which always gives me goosebumps is the last one, Eyes Of A Stranger... Just a fantastic song.I didn't really consider it 'prog metal' at the time, just a really cool metal album.  Looking back on my early music choices from my teenage years I always gravitated towards the more proggy stuff without even realizing it!...  Sub-consious at work perhaps?Great album, and a really good 'gateway' album for progressive material...



Awesome story. Glad the album hit you like a ton of bricks.
Too bad about that Butcher shop take over...we don't need more meat...we need more music outlets!! Lol

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How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 24 2013 at 16:54
Originally posted by Dellinger

Originally posted by rushfan4


Originally posted by Dellinger

Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Dellinger

I've been getting some more prog metal recently (before I mainly only knew Dream Theater, and some Ayreon, and if you consider them prog metal, bands like Rhapsody, Nightwish, Epica, etc, though I didn't get them because of any prog metal credentials). However, I just got some Pain of Salvation, Riverside, Haken, Symphony X. Besides getting a few more albums from this same bands, one of the things I have next in my to get list is this very album because of it's reputation (and Tool's "Laterallus" too, I guess).


On the right track mr. Dude Dellinger.

Hey. Check out Animals as Leaders, Devin Townsend and Agalloch.
More on the experimental side of prog metal, but I'm sure it'll blow your hair back. ;)


Yeah, I've been interested on Animals as Leaders also, though that would be for after getting the albums I said. I have even been somewhat interested in Devin Townsend too, but I don't really like grunting and growling and such things, and I believe he does some of that, so I'm not really sure I'd like him... I think the album I thought from him is "Terria", in case I decided to give him a try, but I'd like to know more about how much extreme vocals he uses. I hadn't thoght about Agalloch, though I believe I'd read something about them, yet not so sure. Oh yeah, another band I might be wanting to get something from is Fates Warning, since I've read they are suposed to be the fathers of Prog Metal along with Queensryche (or perhaps I could say both this bands are the grandparents of prog metal, and Dream Theater are the fathers?).
Have you listened to King's X?  They have output from the same time period that I consider part of the building blocks to prog metal. 


No, I haven't heard them. Though I have heard about them... not much really, but I did know about their existence. I guess I'll check them out, though first I check out Queensryche, then Fates Warning, and then Kings X.
If you want to check out Kings X, you might want to check out this deal of 5 albums for $22.99.  Not sure how that translates with shipping but it is a great deal.  http://www.wowhd.us/CD/kings-x-original-album-series/dp/34717471#bc=2677" rel="nofollow - http://www.wowhd.us/CD/kings-x-original-album-series/dp/34717471#bc=2677


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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 24 2013 at 22:01
Originally posted by rushfan4


Originally posted by Dellinger

Originally posted by rushfan4


Originally posted by Dellinger

Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Dellinger

I've been getting some more prog metal recently (before I mainly only knew Dream Theater, and some Ayreon, and if you consider them prog metal, bands like Rhapsody, Nightwish, Epica, etc, though I didn't get them because of any prog metal credentials). However, I just got some Pain of Salvation, Riverside, Haken, Symphony X. Besides getting a few more albums from this same bands, one of the things I have next in my to get list is this very album because of it's reputation (and Tool's "Laterallus" too, I guess).


On the right track mr. Dude Dellinger.

Hey. Check out Animals as Leaders, Devin Townsend and Agalloch.
More on the experimental side of prog metal, but I'm sure it'll blow your hair back. ;)


Yeah, I've been interested on Animals as Leaders also, though that would be for after getting the albums I said. I have even been somewhat interested in Devin Townsend too, but I don't really like grunting and growling and such things, and I believe he does some of that, so I'm not really sure I'd like him... I think the album I thought from him is "Terria", in case I decided to give him a try, but I'd like to know more about how much extreme vocals he uses. I hadn't thoght about Agalloch, though I believe I'd read something about them, yet not so sure. Oh yeah, another band I might be wanting to get something from is Fates Warning, since I've read they are suposed to be the fathers of Prog Metal along with Queensryche (or perhaps I could say both this bands are the grandparents of prog metal, and Dream Theater are the fathers?).
Have you listened to King's X?  They have output from the same time period that I consider part of the building blocks to prog metal. 


No, I haven't heard them. Though I have heard about them... not much really, but I did know about their existence. I guess I'll check them out, though first I check out Queensryche, then Fates Warning, and then Kings X.
If you want to check out Kings X, you might want to check out this deal of 5 albums for $22.99.  Not sure how that translates with shipping but it is a great deal.  http://www.wowhd.us/CD/kings-x-original-album-series/dp/34717471#bc=2677" rel="nofollow - http://www.wowhd.us/CD/kings-x-original-album-series/dp/34717471#bc=2677


Mmm... I hadn't actually thought about getting into those guys. I was thinking about getting something from Queensryche, Fates Warning, Devin Townsend, Tool, and perhaps Animals as Leaders. As well as getting some more from Pain of Salvation, Riverside, Haken, and Ayreon. And as far as box-sets go, I was thinking about getting Black Sabbath's Dio years one (I got Rainbow's Rising and really liked Dio's singing a lot, so...).


Posted By: surrogate people
Date Posted: October 08 2013 at 14:38
Rage for order was one of the fundamental albums of my teenage years. I still think that no band has ever made an album similar to that one (including Queensryche, of course). When Mindcrime came out, I loved it , but in a way is more of a conventional heavy metal record But better produced than former albums

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We don`t see things as they are, we see them as we are...but Pablo Picasso was never called an a****le!


Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: October 08 2013 at 21:56
I loved RfO so much that I was actually disappointed with O:M!

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Frank Swarbrick
--
Belief is not Truth.


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: October 09 2013 at 07:52
Originally posted by infocat

I loved RfO so much that I was actually disappointed with O:M!



Rage For Order is absolutely unbelievable. Hey. Did you that David Ogilvie produced that album? He is responsible for helping a lot of my other favourites like Skinny Puppy, Frontline assembly and NIN find their sound.
Brilliant album. I could talk about it till I'm blue in the face.

-------------
How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: October 09 2013 at 23:54
I wanted to start a software company and call it Screaming In Digital.
Tongue


-------------
Frank Swarbrick
--
Belief is not Truth.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 10 2013 at 08:43
That sounds like a better idea than starting a charter school and calling it Operation: Mindcrime.

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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: November 29 2013 at 21:36
Lets talk Operation LIVEcrime.

Anybody have either the DVD or the album?? I think it's their best live performance of all time, especially for this album.
1991 was a great touring year for the Ryche. :)


-------------
How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: zwordser
Date Posted: December 12 2013 at 15:47
I got Operation Mindcrime about 3 years ago as I was collecting the top prog albums on this site (I think it was sitting around 100 at the time--and still is). I'm not much of a hair metal fan, so I didn't like it at first, but a few more listens changed my mind. Super concept album! So far though, can't really get into any of their other music.

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Z


Posted By: The Glide
Date Posted: December 13 2013 at 17:37
On paper: a classic. In reality: Great concept, but musically not everything seems to work.

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I've created an atmosphere where I'm friend first, boss second. Probably entertainer third.


Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: December 13 2013 at 17:46
Originally posted by progbethyname

Lets talk Operation LIVEcrime.

Anybody have either the DVD or the album?? I think it's their best live performance of all time, especially for this album.
1991 was a great touring year for the Ryche. :)


Absolutely spectacular performance, you simply watch through amazed at the passion and delivery.
Especially in Suite Sister Mary there are no words to describe...


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"Prog Heavy Petting" show - every Monday 7-9pm UK time on http://www.justincaseradio.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.justincaseradio.com , the first progressive radio in Greece


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 13 2013 at 23:14
Originally posted by progbethyname

Lets talk Operation LIVEcrime.

Anybody have either the DVD or the album?? I think it's their best live performance of all time, especially for this album.
1991 was a great touring year for the Ryche. :)


Operation:LIVEcrime was recorded before the Empire tour, but you're still right. They were an incredible live act in '91. I saw them twice in Long Beach and those were two of the best shows I've seen by any band. They peaked early in their career, but it was one helluva peak!

Have you seen the pre-Warning Tokyo concert from '84? That's amazing, too!

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http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQrdZ0QQsassZmusicosm" rel="nofollow - http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQrdZ0QQsassZmusicosm


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: December 14 2013 at 10:36
^^

I new you 2 would get it. What a performance. The crowd was so loud too!!

-------------
How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: December 14 2013 at 10:39
Originally posted by verslibre

Originally posted by progbethyname

Lets talk Operation LIVEcrime.

Anybody have either the DVD or the album?? I think it's their best live performance of all time, especially for this album.
1991 was a great touring year for the Ryche. :)


Operation:LIVEcrime was recorded before the Empire tour, but you're still right. They were an incredible live act in '91. I saw them twice in Long Beach and those were two of the best shows I've seen by any band. They peaked early in their career, but it was one helluva peak!

Have you seen the pre-Warning Tokyo concert from '84? That's amazing, too!


Oh yes. They even did some 'MYTH' material when they were Myth. :)
I like The Prophesy.

-------------
How Transatlantic's Kaleidoscope beat IQ's The Road Of Bones in the Prog album of the year category at this years Prog awards (2014) is beyond me.



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