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Surrealism (TV, Literature and Music)

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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92191
Printed Date: November 23 2014 at 04:20
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Topic: Surrealism (TV, Literature and Music)
Posted By: Icarium
Subject: Surrealism (TV, Literature and Music)
Date Posted: February 24 2013 at 02:51
To clearify, im maybe gonna wright my paper in English bahceleor about 70s surrealisme in multimedia, or in the popular media, and I can't think of anything more surreal then Monty Pythons humour, vissulars and language, tHGttGs surreal humor, world and to Genesis lyrical themes that overall deals with surrealisme, with both leadvocalists, the overall theme in the lyrics of Genesis is dreams, surreal, greek mythology and things I assosiate with surrealisme,

I can't think of a more surralistic themed lyricaly band as Genesis, Pink Floyd who was Douglas Adams favoured band, or Beatles or Procol Harum is as surreal as the lyrics in Genesis, in my head Genesis is the most pythonesque of the prog bamds, in humor, in sillyness but also smartness, i don't know any other bands that i could compare to the surral ways of Life of Brian, or Hitchhikers Guide other the compare them ot the Lamb, in a way, maybe I overthinks this way to much,

But i want in my paper to compare and discuss  them together, in a context to how surrealisme both could be intellegent but also appeal to the mass marked, in the 70s and 80s, without lacking relevance,

I might also include books like Thorugh the Looking Glass and Roald Dahl into the bacheleor papers im gona wright.  

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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world




Replies:
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: February 24 2013 at 09:52




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This night wounds time.


Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: February 24 2013 at 11:29
Don't really know The Hitchhiker's Guide well enough to vote in the poll... 

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Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: February 24 2013 at 13:33
Satie's music was highly associated with surrealism, esp. his ballet "Parade" which used milk bottles among other things in its orchestration. Some of his harmony is also atonal but triadic using familiar elements to create something strange, surreal, and impressionistic.


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: February 24 2013 at 13:39
have to check that out

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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: February 24 2013 at 17:44
Lynch, David Lynch.

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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: February 24 2013 at 19:04
I thought this poll was going to be about the actual surrealist movement. :(

Voted other, because there are too many great ones. Satie is an excellent call, but let's not forget the writings of Andre Breton, Benjamin Peret, Tristan Tzara, Louis Aragon, the art of Marcel Duchamp, Max Ernst, Rene Magritte, and of course the ultimate in Dada-esque music, Nurse With Wound.
(I know Dada and Surrealism aren't the same thing, but come on, close enough)

For anyone interested in delving into the subject, I highly recommend Andre Breton's "Anthology of Black Humor."


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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: February 25 2013 at 15:55
Ponies?

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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 26 2013 at 22:28
BUÑUEL!

Like Llama, I thought this was about the actual movement.

Nothing wrong with Monty Python, though.

Seriously, check out Buñuel's 70s movies if you're only going to take the 70s. The Discreet Charm of the Burgoise, The Milky Way, Phantom of Liberty. All top-notch surrealism, absurd and radical.

Also, do read the First Surrealist Manifesto by Breton, it's pretty interesting and fundamental to understand the movement.


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http://www.last.fm/user/GordonComstock" rel="nofollow - "For me, music and life are all about style.” Miles Davis(last.fm)


Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: February 26 2013 at 22:59
KILL THE COPS OR THEY'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL

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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: February 27 2013 at 02:43
Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

BUÑUEL!

Like Llama, I thought this was about the actual movement.

Nothing wrong with Monty Python, though.

Seriously, check out Buñuel's 70s movies if you're only going to take the 70s. The Discreet Charm of the Burgoise, The Milky Way, Phantom of Liberty. All top-notch surrealism, absurd and radical.

Also, do read the First Surrealist Manifesto by Breton, it's pretty interesting and fundamental to understand the movement.
my paper is gonna posibly be about the connection between surrealisme, and art, and in the link between intellegent entertainment and comercial appeal or success, into 3 domains of litterature, TV and music i regard as surrealistic in their showcasing their art, and in the different shapes it is shown, i regard Genesis to be the prog band that include the most surreal imagery of the prog bands, who also obtained a high commercial appeal, Yes is more odd then surreal, (in terms of lyrics),

I might insteda focus on books like Alice in Wonderland, the Wizard of OZ, Peter Pan and the Witches.


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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: February 28 2013 at 00:04
Monty Python and Hitchhiker's Guide, no Genesis though.  No option for combos other than all, so no vote. 

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http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: June 07 2013 at 22:02
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

To clearify, im maybe gonna wright my paper in English bahceleor about 70s surrealisme in multimedia, or in the popular media, and I can't think of anything more surreal then Monty Pythons humour, vissulars and language, tHGttGs surreal humor, world and to Genesis lyrical themes that overall deals with surrealisme, with both leadvocalists, the overall theme in the lyrics of Genesis is dreams, surreal, greek mythology and things I assosiate with surrealisme,

I can't think of a more surralistic themed lyricaly band as Genesis, Pink Floyd who was Douglas Adams favoured band, or Beatles or Procol Harum is as surreal as the lyrics in Genesis, in my head Genesis is the most pythonesque of the prog bamds, in humor, in sillyness but also smartness, i don't know any other bands that i could compare to the surral ways of Life of Brian, or Hitchhikers Guide other the compare them ot the Lamb, in a way, maybe I overthinks this way to much,

But i want in my paper to compare and discuss  them together, in a context to how surrealisme both could be intellegent but also appeal to the mass marked, in the 70s and 80s, without lacking relevance,

I might also include books like Thorugh the Looking Glass and Roald Dahl into the bacheleor papers im gona wright.  


Anyone writing abut Surrealism in the 1970s and not saying anything about Luis Bunuel's great 70s works hasn't been doing their homework!!!!!!! :-)

Hint: Bunuel was a father and founder of surrealism, his first film was made in collaboration with Salvaor Dali in 1928, and he made some of his greatest films in the 1970s, including The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie and Phantom of Liberty (my two favorite films of all time - by anyone), as well as Tristana and That Obsure Object of Desire.

Also, The Hitchhiker's Guide and Genesis have absolutely nothing to do with Surrealism, as far as I'm aware.

If there's a 'surrealism' in tv in the 70s, then surely it's Python.

Surrealism was related to Dadaism, and both were revolutionary political movements as much as art & literary movements. Surrealism was famously an attempt to marry Marx and Freud. Genesis simply cannot apply, no way. Not aesthetically, not lyrically, not ideologically - there's simply no connection.


Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: June 07 2013 at 22:05
Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

BUÑUEL!

Like Llama, I thought this was about the actual movement.

Nothing wrong with Monty Python, though.

Seriously, check out Buñuel's 70s movies if you're only going to take the 70s. The Discreet Charm of the Burgoise, The Milky Way, Phantom of Liberty. All top-notch surrealism, absurd and radical.

Also, do read the First Surrealist Manifesto by Breton, it's pretty interesting and fundamental to understand the movement.

Hmm, okay, you beat me to the punch, LOL. I posted mine before reading yours...


Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 07 2013 at 22:10
How can one have surrealism in music?
Surrealism is a visual deal mainly.
 
Literary surrealism - know Tommasso Landolfi short stories?  Belcampo? Lautremont?
 
 
When you speak surrealism in music, its just a confusion of term. What you really mean is avant musics or musique concrete.
 
Surreal in music would be music that jars, that has disturbing/shocking/challanging juxtapositions of style.Slightly inimical ,disparate, once-thought incompatable genres thrown together. Satie mixed  street music with classical, Messaien,Milhaud,mid-Stravinsky....
 
Nowadays everything has become meltingpot blend of genres - the term surreal has no meaning in music anymore. Especially fusion & rock.
 
Surrealism in music is a very early term mainly down to classical composers. Has little meaning today.


Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: June 07 2013 at 22:22
Originally posted by Knobby Knobby wrote:

How can one have surrealism in music?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrealism#Music_by_Surrealists" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrealism#Music_by_Surrealists


Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 08 2013 at 08:56
How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb?
 
Fish


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Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 08 2013 at 10:39
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/MagrittePipe.jpg" rel="nofollow">File:MagrittePipe.jpg


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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: FusionKing
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 16:18
All of them.

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"Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself" - Sartre


Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 00:17
"You can't always write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say, so sometimes you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream" - Frank Zappa

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I'm using the chicken to measure it.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 18 2013 at 11:52
Hi,
 
I'm not sure that Monty Python was influenced by the Surrealists, but one Ionesco play had weird stuff in it, and many of the MP skits were very similar to that playwright's work, but what made it better, was the television and the fact that you could see this in color now. Few folks knew Ionesco and the Surrealistic move in the film and theater era. And since Americans don't read literature, they never heard of it!
 
For the most part, Monty Python, was a visual THE GOONS. No one, before, or since, has ever created such amazing imagery, that rivals Luis Bunuel's and his content, as Spike Milligan did on the GOON SHOW with sound effects, and brilliant writing!
 
All in all, music did not take to Surrealism very well at all, with maybe an example or two here and there, mostly because the majority of music is based on a concept, and design that is set in stone and brick, and you are not a musician if you don't use it ... and the idea in Surrealism, was exactly to break those bonds inside out ... which music did not do, and still doesn't.
 
I have written about this subject and connected it to the free form improvisations in Krautrock, that were similar, and wanting to break out of the confines of western musical concepts ... but we're a bunch of socialistic defined and designed people, and can not handle that kind of work a whole lot ...specially today ... some Bunuel, would not only get banned, the American Media would make sure no one enters the theater!
 


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: August 18 2013 at 22:25
Surrealism in music is best defined by one Prog Archive poster trying to convince another that Van Der Graaf Generator's lack of album sales made the band more relevant progressively than a popular band like Pink Floyd. Exchange Van Der Graaf Generator for King Crimson if you wish, the clocks are still melting upon a lunar landscape.


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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: August 18 2013 at 23:16
... Genesis - 0, all of them - 1. So, out of the 12 people that voted only one of them likes Genesis?

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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: August 19 2013 at 09:15
the perfect combo -         the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy +


Originally posted by ole-the-first ole-the-first wrote:





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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 19 2013 at 10:01
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

... Genesis - 0, all of them - 1. So, out of the 12 people that voted only one of them likes Genesis?
 
 
Is that Genesis as in the first book of the Bible...certainly a lot of surrealism in that .  ;)
 
Seriously how exactly is Genesis , the band, surrealistic..?
 
Confused


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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 19 2013 at 10:07
If anyone likes surreal sci-fi I recommend Stanislaw Lem and PKDick.

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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: August 19 2013 at 11:46
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

... Genesis - 0, all of them - 1. So, out of the 12 people that voted only one of them likes Genesis?



 

 

Is that Genesis as in the first book of the Bible...certainly a lot of surrealism in that .  ;)

 

Seriously how exactly is Genesis , the band, surrealistic..?

 

Confused
have you ever read their lyrics

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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 19 2013 at 11:57
I just wanted to say that fans of Dali should go check out his Soft Self Portrait video.  Last time I checked it's on youtube.  Funny as hell.  Very late '60's in style (not surprising as that's when it was made.)

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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 19 2013 at 22:19
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

... Genesis - 0, all of them - 1. So, out of the 12 people that voted only one of them likes Genesis?



 

 

Is that Genesis as in the first book of the Bible...certainly a lot of surrealism in that .  ;)

 

Seriously how exactly is Genesis , the band, surrealistic..?

 

Confused
have you ever read their lyrics
 
 
Was that supposed to be a joke..? If so it was severely lame.
Of course I  have read their lyrics. If that's your idea of surrealism then all I can say is you haven't really encountered surrealism.
Wink
 


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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 25 2013 at 10:32

(Dup_)



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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 25 2013 at 10:36
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

 ... have you ever read their lyrics
 
There are lyrics that border on surrealism, but they aren't. They are more symbolic of a meaning for the album or the work at hand.
 
The lawnmower, is not exactly a good example of surrealism, and Peter never claimed it either. 
 
The whole of Genesis fits more into another realm of literature with its stories and ideas, and designs.
 
Perhaps we should have you read out loud in your bathroom naked (don't want to offend the family) the Surrealist Manifesto by Bresson!  It would not be as good as a woman doing this naked in a Godard film to a different book ... but what the heck.
 
You might find that not many rock bands come close! And that one lyric/line in the middle of a song, does not a theory make!
 
Originally posted by VOTOMS VOTOMS wrote:

the perfect combo - the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy + Eraserhead
David Lynch is a sanitized carbon copy of the worst Luis Bunuel! The main difference is that David Lynch had a budget and Luis Bunuel didn't!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: August 25 2013 at 11:02
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

David Lynch is a sanitized carbon copy of the worst Luis Bunuel! The main difference is that David Lynch had a budget and Luis Bunuel didn't!

Bunuel's my favorite director. Lynch can't compare. Bunuel was a true European Spanish Surrealist, meaning Freudian, marxist, anticlerical, focused on history, class, the Church. Lynch doesn't bring this level of intellectualism to his art. However, I'm thankful there's a David Lynch. It's very rare to have an American director during this generation following his own whims over a long career. I wish he were more prolific; he's slowed down a lot in the last decade or so... If one make the mistake of expecting Bunuel when watching Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive, Inland Empire, Twin Peaks or Blue Velvet, one will definitely be disappointed. These are not Bunuel-esque films. They are Lynchian films.
 



Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 25 2013 at 15:55


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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: August 28 2013 at 10:05


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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg


Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: August 28 2013 at 10:09
Also, if you are talking about Genesis meaning the first book of the bible, then that gets my vote. It's one of my favourite pieces of surrealist literature

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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 29 2013 at 16:35
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

Also, if you are talking about Genesis meaning the first book of the bible, then that gets my vote. It's one of my favourite pieces of surrealist literature
^this
Big smile


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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 31 2013 at 17:46
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

Also, if you are talking about Genesis meaning the first book of the bible, then that gets my vote. It's one of my favourite pieces of surrealist literature
 
Gonna tell yoh momma that you are a naughty boy!
 
Embarrassed
 
I'm not sure you are that far off, btw ... and it's not the first time it's been said in this past century ... good thing, too, since 200 years ago, they would have called us witches, or some other stupidity and put us on the barbie!
 
I always thought that there is no better example of all this with the beginning of Fellini's Intervista ... with the little boy doing his thing into the river! I laughed so hard ... and in the end, it was the main reason why the church condemned the film! But it was pure surrealism and at its best and most innocent! Except that it was Fellini,of course!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: October 30 2013 at 12:45
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Surrealism in music is best defined by one Prog Archive poster trying to convince another that Van Der Graaf Generator's lack of album sales made the band more relevant progressively than a popular band like Pink Floyd. Exchange Van Der Graaf Generator for King Crimson if you wish, the clocks are still melting upon a lunar landscape.
 
The closest that Surrealism has come that is similar in "style" when you step back, and look at the two films that Bunuel and Dali put together almost 80 years ago, would be something like FAUST in the early albums, where the sound effects kinda ran together and you might, or might not make a story based on that.
 
Ron Geesin, has a lot of surrealistic moments in his own albums, but the fact that Roger has gone out of the way to trash him, has left him in a corner, and sadly so. Some of the stuff is there is fairly close to surrealism, but again, I actually think that his point of view and thoughts, helped Roger, later, make sense of sound effects better than anyone else in music, however, that would be totally considered against a surrealistic thought or idea!
 
In many ways, Syd Barrett, would have been way more surrealistic, were it not for his penchant for satirical commentary about anything he did, which was very "British", and probably his own way of making fun of the Sgt Pepper's obsessive idea that it was psychedelic, when half of it was silly, and not stoned or psychedelic at all! And it's "meanings" broke the stoned/psychedelic ideals which would be more in line with "surrealism" than not. In many ways, even the moments in "Interstellar Overdrive" and "Astronomy Domine" or "A Saucerful of Secrets" could be considered "surrealistic, if you take those "improvised/experimental" sections and accepted that there were no "meanings" to be extracted from them! But in IO, it becomes a sort of outer space signal like morse, or beep beep, and that is the start of AD and also the other single "Point Me to the Sky", and then in ASoS it becomes just instruments on a run to nowhere, finally coming together to make something out of nothing, so to speak! The "meaning" side of things, takes away the surrealistic concepts.
 
This makes PF not be surrealistic at all!
 
However, later, you will find some massive surrealism in Gerald Scarfe's cartoons in "The Wall", many of which add a lot more to the story and its concept, than it's really there, and actually help create a story, from a bunch of songs! I don't think that Roger, or any of us, would want to admit that, or accept that. It would be much harder to put the whole thing together without the sound effects and the cartoons that are now framed in your mind every time you hear this monster!
 
I still have a concern that someone thinks that something is surrealistic simply because they said melted clocks in their lyrics, when the very idea of melting the clock, for DALI, was much more about the heat where he lived, than it was about surrealism itself! I always thought that was hilarrious!
 
Hipgnosis' album covers, not all of them, but many of them, are excellent examples of surrealistic art works.  But Storm and friends, almost always made a comment, or editorial about the music within with them ... and most of them fit really well, in my book!
 


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: October 30 2013 at 13:21
Id say, go ahead, compare and analyse.

Look into the idears of Surealism, what was the inspiration, how did it evolve, what was the goals.
Compare with Monty P. and Genesis, Hitchhikers Guide, what was the inspiration, how did it evolve, what was the goals.
Find similarities and contradictions.
Why not, could be interesting.







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My blog: www.tamijo2013.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - www.tamijo2013.wordpress.com


Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: November 08 2013 at 21:37
All of them. I like Surrealism.

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Har, har, we have sailed far. From Norway to Peru.
Whatever Captain Flurry says.
You must believe, it’s true.



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