GTR - A 1* album
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92828
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Topic: GTR - A 1* album
Posted By: octopus-4
Subject: GTR - A 1* album
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 02:48
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The discussion about Free Hand has given me the idea of this poll. This is the link to one of my oldest reviews. Surely not my best honestly. http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=97753" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=97753 ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Replies:
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 04:11
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I would give it 4 stars. I love it.
I won't read your review. I know how I feel. Nothing will change that. Plus I don't want to get annoyed with you. (And everyone else) ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 05:08
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I'm obviously provoking. I know that at least you and Dean love this album, but as I have written in the post it's following all the polemics about Gentle Giant's Free Hand. I don't mean to really discuss that album. I have bought it when it was released and made a copy on a C90 tape before going on holidays. On the B side I put "The Final Cut". Honestly I have listened to that tape quite a lot of times (both the sides). Even if I think that's a 1 star album I can still listen to it. Some people likes Marmite, you know...  ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 05:20
I don't think Dean likes it. Never read anywhere he does anyway. Who knows? You seem to. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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octopus-4 wrote:Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 05:34
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We have discussed about it in another thread long time ago, unless I have discussed it with you and I'm so stoned to be confused . ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 05:52
I enjoy it, I don't hate it, I certainly don' think it is a bad album and 'When The Heart Rules The Mind' is a cracking 80s pop song. It's not a 1-star album by any stretch of the imagination, as an 80s pop-rock album it's a pretty solid 3-stars. It would be a 1-star Progressive Rock album maybe, just as it would be a 1-star hip-hop album or a 1-star ska-punk album or a 1-star bebop-swing-dixieland-free-diddle-um-pum-pooh jazz album, because it is none of those things nor was it ever trying to be. Fortunately we stuck it in Prog Related so we don't have to judge it as a Progresive Rock album, we don't have to determine how Proggy it is or whether Steve's Hackett and Howe are noodling proggy-noodles in irrational meters and blowing our tiny minds with how mind-blowingly magnificent they are at noodling proggy-noodles on a 12-string lute and for that we don't have to mark-them-down for failing to blow our tiny little prog-addled noggins - we just have to judge whether it's a good, bad or indifferent 80s pop-rock album ... and for me it's neither amazingly great nor is it woefully bad - sure, if it wasn't the Twin Steves then I probably wouldn't have bought it in the first place, but having listened to it regularly for the past 27 years i'm rather glad I did. Of course if you don't like 80s pop-rock then by all means give it a 1-star rating¹ - but if you were expecting something else then that's not really the album's fault is it? ¹ Because giving 1-star ratings to things we don't like rather than to things that are actually bad seema to be the way we do things around here. Never fully understood that rationale myself, but there you go, what do I know?
------------- What? |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 07:19
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I liked it when it came out, but i honestly wouldent play it today, it didnt age well.
And i dont care about stars. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 07:38
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Certainly not the greatest that Hackett and Howe have ever made separately, and in fact, a rather mediocre aor album. I like aor but this isn't that good at that either, with the exception of a few songs. However, I would reserve 1 star for albums that belong in the trash heap and this isn't quite that bad. I'd probably rate it 2 1/2 because there are a few good songs on it.
------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 15:49
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It's far better than anything Asia ever recorded.
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 15:56
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The fact that I had big expectations is surely a reason, but what I dislike most is Max Bacon vocals. It was the year of "The Final Countdown" and I hated Europe because they had a great guitarist so poorly used. GTR sounded to my ears like an Europe clone. I have listened to it a lot during that summer. If you take it as pop is not too bad (vocals apart). I can't comment about Asia. Somebody actually told me to save my money and I have followed the suggestion. Basing on the few things that I have listened, probably you are right. And in terms of 80s poppy prog, everybody knows that I absolutely love 90125. I've gone 600 Km by train to see it live. ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 16:07
Max Bacon is a great vocalist, much more pleasant for the ears than the guy with his horrid vocals in Gentle Giant. Being the clone of another band isn't a bad thing, as long as the musicians are competent and deliver something good. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 16:16
I'm in favour of clones. I'm one of the few who has given a positive review to Unifaun, should I find another Camel clone other than Bellaphon I would surely buy it. I have written in another thread "if you wish to sound like your idols and succeed is a good thing". The problem is who you clone. Max Bacon on that album sounds like the Europe's vocalist. I don't like him on this specific album. His voice is high pitched and powerful, maybe with YES he would sound better. I have to say that the live album which followed GTR is better. Songs that I have totally disliked on the studio version are not so bad in the live. I have rated it with 2 stars and I was curious enough to spend some bucks on a used copy when I heard of its existence many years after. In any case I'm liking this discussion. ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 20:56
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It has qualities....it has memorable melodies. For example, I like the chorus of Jekyll
and Mr Hyde which alternates 4 chords of vocals with 4 chords instrumental
with a nice guitar melody. That sort of chorus with an instrumental melody is uncommon but Hackett
has used that form in other songs. In the eighties I had a melody stuck in my head that I liked .For a long time I thought it came from an album by King Cobra. It turned out it wasn't that album. Not until 2002 I discovered the origin of the melody, which was GTR. That was cool because by then I was a Hackett fan since 1997, but had not heard GTR since the eighties. The song was Here I Wait, the nice instrumental part in the middle of the song, with the guitar melody. They could have had a boring guitar solo, but instead all instrumental parts are very melodic. But the album is a bit dated with the vocal style coupled with the big reverb/room ambiance, a bit messy arena-rock sound. It's worth 3/5 at least. |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 21:13
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Has to be 1* ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: April 03 2013 at 21:23
I had to listen to some samples to refresh my memory, havent heard this in many years. It's not in any way near Europe in my opinion. It is prog. The songs are varied and unpredictable and richer in structure than some ordinary radio rock band. And they didn't express a narrow stereotypical rock attitude. There is more romantic stuff like Sketches in the sun, Toe the line, Imagining... I listened to "Reach Out (Never Say No) " , a song I have forgotten completely. Some nice riffs, and very nice instrumental parts with synth soloing. |
Posted By: Larree
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 00:38
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Love Steve and Steve but GTR is a 1* album. ------------- http://larree.ws" rel="nofollow - The Larree (dot) Website |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 02:16
Sonia, Kati where are you at 
------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 02:25
Quite right. Great song. There's some other good stuff on the album too. Well, a one star rating would be definitely undeserved IMHO.
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 03:01
This was how I reviewed it back in March 2004, when I was but a forum newbie among a total population of less than 100 (yes, it was a 1 star review):
Harsh, perhaps, but the basic idea still holds water for me - I was expecting a considerably different album... Maybe I should revisit the album at some point - maybe  -------------  Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 05:07
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2.5 stars for me, which matches with the average PA rating. When The Heart Rules The Mind is perhaps my least favourite song, I have always seen it as the Heat Of The Moment from Asia debut. The Hunter, Sketches In The Sun, Toe The Line, Hackett To Bits and Imagining are quite good. I don't remember much of the other songs, it's years I did not give it a spin. I don't fancy Max Bacon's voice too much but comparisons with Europe??? I only remember their two hits The Final Countdown and Carrie but as far as I can tell they had nothing to do with GTR
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 05:20
Max Bacon isn't the most well known of voices but his singing on one or two tracks with Mike Oldfield and Phenomena is pretty good from what I've heard. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 05:23
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I to have a bit of a problem with the vocal. And they are nothing like Europe. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 07:04
It is like Heat Of The Moment, I agree. But I like that song too.
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 09:30
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About Europe, this is how I felt it. For me Europe were the clearer example of the pop-false-metal-longhair-stuff of the 80s. I could have mentioned bands like Motley Crue (not as poor as Europe imo). It's more a question of feeling than a technical thing.
Effectively what I feel similar is Max Bacon on "when the heart rules the mind" and "the final countdown". Also Europe had an excellent misused guitarist, btw.
I don't remember "Carrie". With Europe I stopped after the first song.
I want to underline again that the idea of this poll starts from the "Free Hand" review. I have thought to one of my reviews that could have been controversial, that's it. I have other 1 stars review: one is Camel's "The Single Factor" on which I've probably been too harsh, but I'm used to reserve 1 stars to big disappointments and it happens only with artists that I love. Another is Vangelis "See You Later", then I don't think i have reviewed other 1 stars albums.
In the specific, even though I can still listen to GTR (but I prefer spending my time with other things), I think is a completionist item and it fits into the 1 star description for the site. It doesn't mean that one can't enjoy non-prog things. Recently I have listened to Prince's "Sign of the Times" on TV and I've realized that it's not as bad as I was thinking when it was released. I have quite enjoyed it, but I wouldn't suggest it to a prog fan.. ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 10:35
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Musician Magazine summed it up perfectly. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 11:30
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Do you mean this? JD's Review of the GTR Album: "SHT" I wouldn't be so offensive, but effectively it's hilarious, and also Rick Wakeman renamed "Onion" a YES album ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 11:37
Yes. Some say the review was "TTL SHT". Either way, very funny. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 13:20
------------- What? |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 14:59
 ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: mohaveman
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 15:53
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2 stars ------------- And it's only the giving that makes you...what you are". |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 04 2013 at 23:29
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I've found another nice review. Wham! Ouch! Off topics, I know... ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Jonathan
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 18:53
It's probably closer to Prog-Rock than Shakti ever was. 
At least GTR is a Rock Band. ------------- "Do not do to others as you don't want done to yourself."- Confucius |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 22:57
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yep. The only half decent stuff on the album was a hideous 80's keyboard slathered rendition of a piece already released on Steve Hackett's Defector. Just garbage. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: August 23 2014 at 22:58
| I like the album instrumentally very much---but the singing and cold production are not very good. |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 24 2014 at 00:44
| ^I felt the singing was repugnant too. It was an 80s type of vocal, almost seems like a caricature of the 80s vocal style now. I liked Hackett to Bits, though it was too short. I think Cured was a better pop oriented solo album from the 80s. His own vocals were even better. BTW, I was once among some of the fans greeting Steve Hackett after a small concert in the 90s. One of the other fans told him that the only thing he didn't like was GTR (which struck me as a bit rude). Steve said, "it sounded good in rehearsal." He didn't say anything else. I always found his comment somewhat curious. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 24 2014 at 01:22
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No. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: August 24 2014 at 10:27
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Anyone around at the time of the release of GTR knows how big it was.....or tried to be. MTV, FM radio and record shops pushed "When the Heart..." to be the next "Owner..." or "Heat of the Moment"....Top 20 single all over the radio over the summer of '86. But it all faded quickly - Howe wanted Top 20; Hackett wanted a guitar collective - a band that featured guitars over keyboards to explore, push, make cash, invent new sounds....Hackett stuff. A tour fizzled and GTR was only seen again in the cut out bins. There' s a King Biscuit live album out there - abrasive, rushed versions of songs done better on other albums. I had my old cassette copy out a few weeks back....glad it's there but probably won't see the light of day again. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: August 24 2014 at 13:16
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"It sounded good in rehearsal" lol---saw them twice in concert and to see my two guitar gods together was amazing even though it was obvious that they didn't love each other. Blame most of it on Howe--as Hackett seems to get along with lot's of musicians. Howe once said when asked why GTR didn't work? and he said something like, "well, we weren't friends"
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: August 24 2014 at 13:24
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I think it's possible for albums to be neither great nor terrible.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: August 24 2014 at 15:30
| 2 stars for me |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: August 24 2014 at 15:36
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A pretty lackluster album that had a lot of potential initially, but certainly not 1 stars. I'd say it's borderline enjoyable.
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 24 2014 at 21:52
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Lackluster sums it up. A few good songs, but even less prog than you can find on Asia's debut. Just a decent re-working of Please Don't Touch for us suffering prog fans. ------------- 
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 17 2017 at 09:47
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I'd give it a 3 stars, I like it, good melodic rock. The vocals are the weak point. Max Bacon did a good job in Phenomena, here not so much.
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: September 17 2017 at 10:02
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In your shoes I wouldn't care about Octopus  ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: September 17 2017 at 10:59
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It's sh*te. I probably haven't listened to it since the day after I picked a copy out of a bargain bin for something like £1.49 not that long after it came out. Certainly not going to spend time listening to it again to determine exactly how bad it is! ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |