Print Page | Close Window

Dream Theater wins March Metal Madness Tournament

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Discription: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92936
Printed Date: July 29 2014 at 01:42
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.69 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Dream Theater wins March Metal Madness Tournament
Posted By: dtguitarfan
Subject: Dream Theater wins March Metal Madness Tournament
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 14:52
Well, it's been quite a while since I've been on here, but those who remember me know how I love to torment the haters!  WinkLOL
Today, Dream Theater won Loudwire's March Metal Madness tournament with their immortal album, Images and Words!  They started by beating the legendary Ronny James Dio and his album Holy Diver.  In the second round, they went on to beat Back in Black by AC/DC.  In the next round, they went on to upset the hopes of the iconic Judas Priest and their album Screaming For Vengeance.  Then, in the quarterfinals, against all odds they beat  Megadeth's metal classic Rust In Peace!  (Oh, you should've seen the facebook comments - priceless!)  Finally, they beat what is perhaps the most iconic metal album of all time, Master of Puppets by Metallica in the final round of the tournament!  It should be noted that on Facebook, Metallica has just barely under 30 million fans while Dream Theater has just over 3 million.  Quality beats quantity! 
ClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClap

And one final dig...remove that 20x weighting for the elites on your charts and see what happens, I dare you!  WinkLOL


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List



Replies:
Posted By: MJAben
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 15:02
Yeah, I saw that, still kind of in shock that DT won the tourney. Have to be honest, I spent more time reading all the comments in that tourney than actually voting :)

-------------
The anteater is the worlds fastest land mammal.


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 15:11
I thought it was fun watching the Megadeth and Metallica fans try to convince the DT fans as to why they shouldn't vote DT, and whining incessantly about it.  It was funny reading all the "how is this happening?!!!" comments.

-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: sukmytoe
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 15:15
They won deservedly. To put images and Words up against Master of Puppets is like racing a porsche against a clapped out Fiat Uno. The serious competition, to me, would have been Holy Diver and Screaming for Vengeance. Metallica, to me, were a one trick wonder - they metalized Punk is all they really did. Sure, they're a major inspiration to thrash metal artists of today - you have to enjoy thrash as a mainstream to enjoy that and I'm not a lover of that side of the music world unless it's used sparingly for effect in hard prog music.


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 15:40
Should've posted the link - dur.
http://loudwire.com/dream-theater-images-and-words-wins-march-metal-madness-2013/" rel="nofollow - http://loudwire.com/dream-theater-images-and-words-wins-march-metal-madness-2013/


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: sukmytoe
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 16:14
oooooo I see that it beat Sabbath's Paranoid album as well and I've always loved Sabbath dearly. However although it pains me to say it Images and Words is by far a better album although Black Sabbath was probably one of DT's fathers in almost the literal sense of the word. Sabbath - the father, Rush - the mother and Metallica - a cousin - seems to sum up DT's musical family history for me. Personally, had Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Sabotage been used it would have been a really tough call for me had I had the swaying vote - the same would have applied to Priest's Sad Wings of Destiny album. 


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 16:53
Well, Metallica beat Sabbath, not DT.  But by extension I guess you could say DT beat them too.

-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 17:58
Originally posted by dtguitarfan


And one final dig...remove that 20x weighting for the elites on your charts and see what happens, I dare you!  WinkLOL
Then the top 100 would be populated entirely by all those lesser-known albums with a single lone rating...
 
...like this one: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9195" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9195  
 
...and wouldn't that be bags of fun. Wacko


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 18:27
I do like Dream Theater much better than Metallica, and Images and Words much better than Master of Puppets... as a matter of fact, I have never understood the great love there is towards Master of Puppets... it doesn't even have any of my favourite Metallica songs, and many of the songs that are kind of OK on Master of Puppets seem like lesser versions of songs I actually like a lot from the previous or next albums. However, I guess somehow DT shouldn't have won, because whether I like it or not, Master of Puppets is by far the more important album within the metal world. As fact as I understand, the reason DT won was because one could come back every hour and vote again, so I'm guessing DT fans were hard at work voting and voting again while Metallica fans may not have taken the bother.


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 19:11
Never heard about Loudwire. 

-------------


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 19:35
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by dtguitarfan


And one final dig...remove that 20x weighting for the elites on your charts and see what happens, I dare you!  WinkLOL
Then the top 100 would be populated entirely by all those lesser-known albums with a single lone rating...
 
...like this one: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9195" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9195  
 
...and wouldn't that be bags of fun. Wacko

Here's the thing, Dean - I've watched one of my favorite albums slowly (painfully slowly) climb to the top of a yearly list after 3 years, with over 200 ratings.  And then a few weeks later when I went to show someone - surprise!  An album with 40 ratings was over it.  Because one collab and one reviewer had written 5 star reviews for it.  Tell me that's fair.


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 19:53
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by dtguitarfan


And one final dig...remove that 20x weighting for the elites on your charts and see what happens, I dare you!  WinkLOL
Then the top 100 would be populated entirely by all those lesser-known albums with a single lone rating...
 
...like this one: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9195" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9195  
 
...and wouldn't that be bags of fun. Wacko

Here's the thing, Dean - I've watched one of my favorite albums slowly (painfully slowly) climb to the top of a yearly list after 3 years, with over 200 ratings.  And then a few weeks later when I went to show someone - surprise!  An album with 40 ratings was over it.  Because one collab and one reviewer had written 5 star reviews for it.  Tell me that's fair.

Add to that this little corruption:
How does one acquire the ability to give ratings that are weighted 20 times?  They are given the ability by the vote of the other people who already have the ability.  Think of it this way - it is starting to become more and more apparent to the American people that the Republican party has simply gone crazy.  Even Republicans who are polled say in over 50% margins that the party is extreme.  But they have majority in Congress because of gerrymandering.  But this will only hurt them in the end, because they are overconfident that they will keep these seats, and they keep pandering to their "base" in order to win primaries, while turning the rest of the country off in a big way.  So eventually they'll lose.  But let's say, instead of having to win the vote of the people, the only way to get into Congress was for Congress to vote you in.  The House would slowly be overtaken by extreme Republicans and it would just become more and more extreme.  Do you see my point?
Not that I care anymore - I've pretty much completely lost the bug that drove me to want to write reviews anyways.  But this frustration might have contributed to that and I don't understand how anyone thinks this is fair.


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: Biff Tannen
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 23:27
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by dtguitarfan


And one final dig...remove that 20x weighting for the elites on your charts and see what happens, I dare you!  WinkLOL
Then the top 100 would be populated entirely by all those lesser-known albums with a single lone rating...
 
...like this one: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9195" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9195  
 
...and wouldn't that be bags of fun. Wacko

Here's the thing, Dean - I've watched one of my favorite albums slowly (painfully slowly) climb to the top of a yearly list after 3 years, with over 200 ratings.  And then a few weeks later when I went to show someone - surprise!  An album with 40 ratings was over it.  Because one collab and one reviewer had written 5 star reviews for it.  Tell me that's fair.

It's not, which is why, while the ratings here can be a useful guide, they should not be taken seriously as any kind of definitive list.  The idea that collaborators ratings count  for more than all of ours is nothing short of absurd, but hey, it's their site and they can do what they want with it.  But that doesn't mean we have to take the skewed ratings seriously. 


-------------
"What are you looking at, butthead?"


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 00:01
Originally posted by Biff Tannen

It's not, which is why, while the ratings here can be a useful guide, they should not be taken seriously as any kind of definitive list.  The idea that collaborators ratings count  for more than all of ours is nothing short of absurd, but hey, it's their site and they can do what they want with it.  But that doesn't mean we have to take the skewed ratings seriously.
Geoff, that's what more than one person said to you half-a-year ago.

-------------
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 01:08
Dream Theater wins, that's horse Censored. Images and Words ain't better than Rust in Peace give me a break. Nevermind it's a stupid F***book thing Head on wall

-------------
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



Posted By: zeqexes
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 01:27
I don't really like MoP, but I love I&W, so I'm happy with the result

-------------


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 06:09
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

Originally posted by Biff Tannen

It's not, which is why, while the ratings here can be a useful guide, they should not be taken seriously as any kind of definitive list.  The idea that collaborators ratings count  for more than all of ours is nothing short of absurd, but hey, it's their site and they can do what they want with it.  But that doesn't mean we have to take the skewed ratings seriously.
Geoff, that's what more than one person said to you half-a-year ago.

The fact that other people admit this is absurd, but then say, with a cynical helpless tone, "oh well, we just have to live with it" is sad.  Don't you want the site to get better and to represent the will of the users better, rather than the will of the elite club who decide "the only way you get into our elite club is if your opinions match our opinions"?


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 06:22
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

Originally posted by Biff Tannen

It's not, which is why, while the ratings here can be a useful guide, they should not be taken seriously as any kind of definitive list.  The idea that collaborators ratings count  for more than all of ours is nothing short of absurd, but hey, it's their site and they can do what they want with it.  But that doesn't mean we have to take the skewed ratings seriously.
Geoff, that's what more than one person said to you half-a-year ago.

The fact that other people admit this is absurd, but then say, with a cynical helpless tone, "oh well, we just have to live with it" is sad.  Don't you want the site to get better and to represent the will of the users better, rather than the will of the elite club who decide "the only way you get into our elite club is if your opinions match our opinions"?

Is that the way you see it here? I must say I have never, ever been aware of  any such skulduggery. Basically. It isn't true. You are either mistaken or a liar or just  a troublemaker. I choose to believe you  are just mistaken.


-------------
Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 07:51
Ermm I see someone's still pissed they were not promoted to PR. Stern Smile

-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 08:20
Originally posted by dtguitarfan


Add to that this little corruption:
How does one acquire the ability to give ratings that are weighted 20 times?  They are given the ability by the vote of the other people who already have the ability.  Think of it this way -
::rant::
Do you see my point?
Not that I care anymore - I've pretty much completely lost the bug that drove me to want to write reviews anyways.  But this frustration might have contributed to that and I don't understand how anyone thinks this is fair.
 
Oh, spare us the violin concerto, we're not falling for it. You're a Special Collaborator on the Metal Music Archives with all the rank and privilage that carries (erm, the same as here - duck all) - how they operate is exactly how we operate because 99% of the guys over there are also collabs over here - unless you are trying to tell us that MMA collabs have adopted dirty tricks and secret cabals that we don't know about. You have x20 weighting on MMA - quit moaning or quit.
 
Also, many of your reviews were cut'n'paste hash-jobs between the two sites - I fail to see how frustration on one site affects the unfettered access of another, so any lost bug for reviewing has little to do collab weighting.


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 09:11
I like much from DT and I don't like much from them either, but in any case I don't care much for public tournaments, it's my own musical taste I care for, not other's.
Images and Words is a great album, whether it's better or worse than others, I'm not going to discuss here, 'better' or 'worse' are absolute adjectives which fall short when discussing a lot of music.


Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 09:34
Originally posted by Gerinski

I like much from DT and I don't like much from them either, but in any case I don't care much for public tournaments, it's my own musical taste I care for, not other's.
Images and Words is a great album, whether it's better or worse than others, I'm not going to discuss here, 'better' or 'worse' are absolute adjectives which fall short when discussing a lot of music.
Clap
I totally concur with this entire statement !


-------------
"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 10:43
I still haven't understood: was this March Metal Madness "competition" some kind of vote organized on several internet sites, social networks, etc... or only on this Loudwire site?

-------------


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 10:46
It was a public vote yes, but only for Afghan sailors.

-------------
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: AlexDOM
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 10:46
AWESOME!!!


Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 10:49
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

It was a public vote yes, but only for Afghan sailors.
LOL
I actually laughed out loud at this !


-------------
"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio


Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 16:36
These things are not to be taken seriously. Example B.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictures/readers-poll-your-favorite-prog-rock-albums-of-all-time-20120725/1-dream-theater-metropolis-pt-2-scenes-from-a-memory-0257304#ixzz21ktIiOga" rel="nofollow - http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictures/readers-poll-your-favorite-prog-rock-albums-of-all-time-20120725/1-dream-theater-metropolis-pt-2-scenes-from-a-memory-0257304#ixzz21ktIiOga

Note: While I do like this album, it's not the greatest prog album of all time.


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 17:43
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by dtguitarfan


Add to that this little corruption:
How does one acquire the ability to give ratings that are weighted 20 times?  They are given the ability by the vote of the other people who already have the ability.  Think of it this way -
::rant::
Do you see my point?
Not that I care anymore - I've pretty much completely lost the bug that drove me to want to write reviews anyways.  But this frustration might have contributed to that and I don't understand how anyone thinks this is fair.
 
Oh, spare us the violin concerto, we're not falling for it. You're a Special Collaborator on the Metal Music Archives with all the rank and privilage that carries (erm, the same as here - duck all) - how they operate is exactly how we operate because 99% of the guys over there are also collabs over here - unless you are trying to tell us that MMA collabs have adopted dirty tricks and secret cabals that we don't know about. You have x20 weighting on MMA - quit moaning or quit.
 
Also, many of your reviews were cut'n'paste hash-jobs between the two sites - I fail to see how frustration on one site affects the unfettered access of another, so any lost bug for reviewing has little to do collab weighting.

First of all, I don't even want status here any more - I'm over that.  I'm merely criticizing a system that I don't think is right.

Second of all, let me tell you how "collaborator" status works on MMA - they're desperate.  They need help.  They'll take pretty much anyone.  Because of this, they get better variety.  On PA, this is not the case.  When I asked for reviewer status, and pointed to another site where I could show off my entire collection of ratings I was told that I was clearly an expert on Prog Metal, but here they want people who like all different kinds of Prog.  Here's my problem with that - I clearly like more than just Prog Metal for one thing, as I'm into lots of 70's prog as well, and have listened to a decent variety of other styles.  But lets say, just for the sake of argument, that there are some sub genres that just plain suck.  Because you're insisting here that the only people who get collab/reviewer status are people who like all styles, you're not really getting experts now, are you.  You're insisting on only getting people who have bad taste.

Third, your silly rule that a review on MMA should not be transfered over to a SISTER SITE - started by the SAME FREAKING GUY - is just plain stupid.


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: sukmytoe
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 17:44
In twenty years time I wonder what the thinking will be then. I love a great deal of prog rock music and have been entranced by the music for forty five years or so. To me, among the top albums of all time relating to prog would be Genesis - Foxtrot, Yes - Relayer, Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Rush - 2112, Rainbow - Rainbow Rising, Uriah Heep - Demons and Wizards, Queensryche - Operation MIndcrime ....... and others but I'm not going to list them all here. The truth is that I do recognise Dream Theater as being up there with at least 2 albums. I would go so far as to say that I personally don't dispute either poll result in the slightest as I recognise DT as being easily amongst the very best bands that I have ever had the pleasure of hearing and they have impressed me the most with their releases. People who don't recognise the value of the top DT albums and who profess to hate them are welcome to their own opinions but to slight the band - and I've read here and elsewhere that some think that the music they release is trash - is not too bright for anyone claiming to understand music. Personally I dislike KIng Crimson however I would never be dumb enough to slate them as being useless or call their music trash - I listen to KC with a great deal of respect in fact, respect for the fact that although I don't like their music it has profound value to the music world and to those who adore their music. The same applies to Gentle Giant relating to my own preference in music. This post only really applies to those who troll anything relating to DT and put down words for the sake of putting down words for effect. I haven't seen the hate here for DT that I've seen in other posts here and frankly that suprises me as there are those who where at the mention the name Dream Theater go off like bulls presented with matador capes.


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 17:46
Oh, I forgot, I had one more point to make - over on MMA, there was actually a discussion that pretty much had 100% agreement where all the collabs wanted to take away their 20X rating weighting.  Voluntarily.  We all thought it was stupid, and a 5x (for collabs who wrote a review) 3x (for regular reviews) 1x (for just rating) system might be closer to fair.  We thought this because we'd noticed that an album would be at #1 on a chart with 30 ratings or so and then one collab would have a chip on his shoulder and write a 1 star review and you'd never see the album anywhere near the chart ever again.

-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: AlexDOM
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 17:52
Originally posted by sukmytoe

I haven't seen the hate here for DT that I've seen in other posts here and frankly that suprises me as there are those who where at the mention the name Dream Theater go off like bulls presented with matador capes.

How can anyone ever ever ever ever ever ever hate The Dance of Eternity??????
Maybe someone can hate everything else they've written (which blows my mind), but certainly not TDOE.


Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 18:02
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

[Second of all, let me tell you how "collaborator" status works on MMA - they're desperate.  They need help.  They'll take pretty much anyone. 
 
Even Geoff!


-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/TullDerGraff" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: geneyesontle
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 18:11
Cry Bad.
 
How can they win against these legends of metal. Dream Theater are just prog metal snobs who just want to show that they can play a million notes a second and that they can do ten minute songs. Progressive bands wanted to sound different. Dream Theater copy the progressive bands witha touch of metal. If you dislike my comment, that's okay. But that's just my opinion.


-------------
Poseidon wants to Acquire the Taste of the Fragile Lamb
- Derek Adrian Gabriel Anderson, singer of the band Geneyesontle


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 18:21
Originally posted by sukmytoe

In twenty years time I wonder what the thinking will be then. I love a great deal of prog rock music and have been entranced by the music for forty five years or so. To me, among the top albums of all time relating to prog would be Genesis - Foxtrot, Yes - Relayer, Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Rush - 2112, Rainbow - Rainbow Rising, Uriah Heep - Demons and Wizards, Queensryche - Operation MIndcrime ....... and others but I'm not going to list them all here. The truth is that I do recognise Dream Theater as being up there with at least 2 albums. I would go so far as to say that I personally don't dispute either poll result in the slightest as I recognise DT as being easily amongst the very best bands that I have ever had the pleasure of hearing and they have impressed me the most with their releases. People who don't recognise the value of the top DT albums and who profess to hate them are welcome to their own opinions but to slight the band - and I've read here and elsewhere that some think that the music they release is trash - is not too bright for anyone claiming to understand music. Personally I dislike KIng Crimson however I would never be dumb enough to slate them as being useless or call their music trash - I listen to KC with a great deal of respect in fact, respect for the fact that although I don't like their music it has profound value to the music world and to those who adore their music. The same applies to Gentle Giant relating to my own preference in music. This post only really applies to those who troll anything relating to DT and put down words for the sake of putting down words for effect. I haven't seen the hate here for DT that I've seen in other posts here and frankly that suprises me as there are those who where at the mention the name Dream Theater go off like bulls presented with matador capes.
I've been here six years now and have been enjoying Dream Theater albums for over thirteen years, they are not my favourite Prog Metal band by quite a margin, but they are up there with the best of them. In all that time, apart from a very few rather narrowminded people who do not like Metal, let alone Prog Metal, the only posts I've seen regarding all the DT hate has been from people complaining about all the DT hate. The evidence it seems for all this assumed DT hate is that their albums are not riding at the top of a chart, when the reality is when you look at the top metal albums of all time DT have two albums in the top three and Opeth have two albums in the top six and Pain Of Salvation have two albums in the top ten - and all six of those albums are in the all-genre all-time top 100 ... and to me, as a metal fan of many years and a prog fan of many more, that sounds just about right.

-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 18:54
Originally posted by AlexDOM



Originally posted by sukmytoe

I haven't seen the hate here for DT that I've seen in other posts here and frankly that suprises me as there are those who where at the mention the name Dream Theater go off like bulls presented with matador capes.

How can anyone ever ever ever ever ever ever hate The Dance of Eternity??????
Maybe someone can hate everything else they've written (which blows my mind), but certainly not TDOE.



I actually don't particularly like "The Dance of Eternity". Since I don't like it so much, I haven't heard it for a while, and thus I don't remember it very well, so I'm not sure if I would say that I hate it.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 18:59
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by sukmytoe

In twenty years time I wonder what the thinking will be then. I love a great deal of prog rock music and have been entranced by the music for forty five years or so. To me, among the top albums of all time relating to prog would be Genesis - Foxtrot, Yes - Relayer, Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Rush - 2112, Rainbow - Rainbow Rising, Uriah Heep - Demons and Wizards, Queensryche - Operation MIndcrime ....... and others but I'm not going to list them all here. The truth is that I do recognise Dream Theater as being up there with at least 2 albums. I would go so far as to say that I personally don't dispute either poll result in the slightest as I recognise DT as being easily amongst the very best bands that I have ever had the pleasure of hearing and they have impressed me the most with their releases. People who don't recognise the value of the top DT albums and who profess to hate them are welcome to their own opinions but to slight the band - and I've read here and elsewhere that some think that the music they release is trash - is not too bright for anyone claiming to understand music. Personally I dislike KIng Crimson however I would never be dumb enough to slate them as being useless or call their music trash - I listen to KC with a great deal of respect in fact, respect for the fact that although I don't like their music it has profound value to the music world and to those who adore their music. The same applies to Gentle Giant relating to my own preference in music. This post only really applies to those who troll anything relating to DT and put down words for the sake of putting down words for effect. I haven't seen the hate here for DT that I've seen in other posts here and frankly that suprises me as there are those who where at the mention the name Dream Theater go off like bulls presented with matador capes.

I've been here six years now and have been enjoying Dream Theater albums for over thirteen years, they are not my favourite Prog Metal band by quite a margin, but they are up there with the best of them. In all that time, apart from a very few rather narrowminded people who do not like Metal, let alone Prog Metal, the only posts I've seen regarding all the DT hate has been from people complaining about all the DT hate. The evidence it seems for all this assumed DT hate is that their albums are not riding at the top of a chart, when the reality is when you look at the top metal albums of all time DT have two albums in the top three and Opeth have two albums in the top six and Pain Of Salvation have two albums in the top ten - and all six of those albums are in the all-genre all-time top 100 ... and to me, as a metal fan of many years and a prog fan of many more, that sounds just about right.


About DT not having albums riding at the top of the chart, I must say that they are actually among my very favourite bands, but... well, there's just about no album of them that I would consider a masterpice. They all have lesser songs that bring their albums down. However, I noticed a while ago that I actually have over 40 or 50 mins of most of their albums on my IPod (where I only put the songs that I really like a lot), so I would think that part of their problem is that they just fill their albums for the sake of using most of the minutes available. If they got to put only their best material they might have made only masterpieces... the thing is, how to choose which are the best songs? Very likely my favourite songs aren't your favourite songs and so on.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 01:45
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

First of all, I don't even want status here any more - I'm over that.  I'm merely criticizing a system that I don't think is right.

Second of all, let me tell you how "collaborator" status works on MMA - they're desperate.  They need help.  They'll take pretty much anyone.  Because of this, they get better variety.  On PA, this is not the case.  When I asked for reviewer status, and pointed to another site where I could show off my entire collection of ratings I was told that I was clearly an expert on Prog Metal, but here they want people who like all different kinds of Prog.  Here's my problem with that - I clearly like more than just Prog Metal for one thing, as I'm into lots of 70's prog as well, and have listened to a decent variety of other styles.  But lets say, just for the sake of argument, that there are some sub genres that just plain suck.  Because you're insisting here that the only people who get collab/reviewer status are people who like all styles, you're not really getting experts now, are you.  You're insisting on only getting people who have bad taste.

Third, your silly rule that a review on MMA should not be transfered over to a SISTER SITE - started by the SAME FREAKING GUY - is just plain stupid.
*sigh*
 
When the two sites carry the same reviews and the same biographies and is staffed by people who are collaborators on both sites do you really have to look very far to see why the newer site is desperate and in need of help? That's what's stupid, plain or fancy with curlicues of filigree and lace and ornate decoration of inlay and fine gold.
 
So not withstanding the observation that posting the same review on both sites can only ever be detrimental to the smaller site, it is also cheating, (like passing an old car off as new), which makes it a tad dishonest and not playing fair - and that too is just about as stupid as it gets.
 
And you bitch and moan and complain about how badly Dream Theater gets treated on a Progressive Rock review site and boast and pout whenever they get some accolade elsewhere - yet when you look at the Top 50 albums on Metal Music Archives they are nowhere to be seen and have only one album in the Top 100. Somewhat ironic that they fair better on a site populated by reviewers of such bad taste - that's 24ct stupid.
 
 


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 05:41
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

First of all, I don't even want status here any more - I'm over that.  I'm merely criticizing a system that I don't think is right.

Second of all, let me tell you how "collaborator" status works on MMA - they're desperate.  They need help.  They'll take pretty much anyone.  Because of this, they get better variety.  On PA, this is not the case.  When I asked for reviewer status, and pointed to another site where I could show off my entire collection of ratings I was told that I was clearly an expert on Prog Metal, but here they want people who like all different kinds of Prog.  Here's my problem with that - I clearly like more than just Prog Metal for one thing, as I'm into lots of 70's prog as well, and have listened to a decent variety of other styles.  But lets say, just for the sake of argument, that there are some sub genres that just plain suck.  Because you're insisting here that the only people who get collab/reviewer status are people who like all styles, you're not really getting experts now, are you.  You're insisting on only getting people who have bad taste.

Third, your silly rule that a review on MMA should not be transfered over to a SISTER SITE - started by the SAME FREAKING GUY - is just plain stupid.
*sigh*
 
When the two sites carry the same reviews and the same biographies and is staffed by people who are collaborators on both sites do you really have to look very far to see why the newer site is desperate and in need of help? That's what's stupid, plain or fancy with curlicues of filigree and lace and ornate decoration of inlay and fine gold.
 
So not withstanding the observation that posting the same review on both sites can only ever be detrimental to the smaller site, it is also cheating, (like passing an old car off as new), which makes it a tad dishonest and not playing fair - and that too is just about as stupid as it gets.

It's common practice, all over the internet, Dean.  My favorite conservative (one of the few conservatives these days whose opinion I respect any more), David Frum, writes for a website called the Daily Beast.  But often I'll see articles on the Daily Beast by him that originally came from another site, such as CNN.  It's common practice - deal with it.
 
Originally posted by Dean


And you bitch and moan and complain about how badly Dream Theater gets treated on a Progressive Rock review site and boast and pout whenever they get some accolade elsewhere - yet when you look at the Top 50 albums on Metal Music Archives they are nowhere to be seen and have only one album in the Top 100. Somewhat ironic that they fair better on a site populated by reviewers of such bad taste - that's 24ct stupid.
 
Yeah, why is that, Dean?  It's the 20x rating thing - something the collaborators collectively said "yes, we want to change" and yet it hasn't, because we have no control.  It's a bad system, and it's unfair, and you know it - you just don't want to admit it.


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 06:24
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Yeah, why is that, Dean?  It's the 20x rating thing - something the collaborators collectively said "yes, we want to change" and yet it hasn't, because we have no control.  It's a bad system, and it's unfair, and you know it - you just don't want to admit it.
It's not a bad system, it is fairer than allowing biploar rating-only's to overrun the system, and I know both those things and freely admit it.
 
I frequently recompute the average rartings for individual albums to see the effects that these bipolar ratings-only idiots would have on an average rating and it is depressing - no album is immune from their abuse and all suffer in varying degrees, some more than others, and yes, it is the high-profile bands that suffer the most.
 
Since I have to do this long-hand I cannot do it for all albums so I cannot predict the effect that removing the weighting system would have on the charts (although you do seem to be able to make these predictions based on no empirical evidence whatsoever, I am not gifted with that prescience). The individual average rating for all albums will change, I cannot predict in which way they would change - it would depend on whether the bipolar-ratings were predominately 1-star or predominately 5-star for each, some wil go up, some will go down and some will remain more or less the same.
 
I would only support the scrapping of the weighting system if we would abolish rating-only at the same time. If we cannot scrap rating-only the we should compute two averages and have two charts.


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 07:30
I only have to take 1 look at dtguitarfans posts here to see why the 20x weighting would be unnecessary over on MMA, by his own admission it's a much smaller site and so much less likely to be subject to the same sort of rating idiocy that PA gets.

You might not like the weighting system here, but it took years of tinkering with it to get to a point where it hilights the contributions of those reveiwers that have clearly shown a degree of knowledge and the ability to get it across (dtguitarfan might have a wide breadth of knowledge on Prog, but I've looked through your list of reviews and the vast majrity of them are for Prog Metal and a considerable number of them are 5 star ratings, and the quality of the reviews can be quite variable, depending on how much you like the album) without letting asses of fanboy and hater fools wildely skew the ratings, which in the end arent as important as the review itself.


-------------
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 07:52
I'm going to be honest, 20x weighting is necessary on MMA because we don't have enough regular reviewers to counteract the occasional manipulators.

/offtopic


-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/TullDerGraff" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Biff Tannen
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 09:18
Okay, but you are going to have collaborators manipulate the ratings, too, if they decide they do not like a particular band and decide to review all of their albums just to give them a low rating for each one.  I won't mention names, but there are certain collaborators who all but admit in certain reviews that they do not like a band and only listened to a CD once so they could trash it.  In fact, in one, a collaborator even said, "have I gotten to 100 words yet?"  The obvious implication there being they reviewed it just to give it 1 star and hurt its rating because they have an axe to grind.  So, manipulating the ratings can come from anyone, and giving more weight to the ratings of collaborators makes it easier for them to do so. 

-------------
"What are you looking at, butthead?"


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 09:27
Originally posted by Biff Tannen

Okay, but you are going to have collaborators manipulate the ratings, too, if they decide they do not like a particular band and decide to review all of their albums just to give them a low rating for each one.  I won't mention names, but there are certain collaborators who all but admit in certain reviews that they do not like a band and only listened to a CD once so they could trash it.  In fact, in one, a collaborator even said, "have I gotten to 100 words yet?"  The obvious implication there being they reviewed it just to give it 1 star and hurt its rating because they have an axe to grind.  So, manipulating the ratings can come from anyone, and giving more weight to the ratings of collaborators makes it easier for them to do so. 
Easier yes, more likely no. You can name and shame, this is far more preferable to wild accusations - I love watching reviewers squirm as they justify their ratings, collaborators doubly so.


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 09:40
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Biff Tannen

Okay, but you are going to have collaborators manipulate the ratings, too, if they decide they do not like a particular band and decide to review all of their albums just to give them a low rating for each one.  I won't mention names, but there are certain collaborators who all but admit in certain reviews that they do not like a band and only listened to a CD once so they could trash it.  In fact, in one, a collaborator even said, "have I gotten to 100 words yet?"  The obvious implication there being they reviewed it just to give it 1 star and hurt its rating because they have an axe to grind.  So, manipulating the ratings can come from anyone, and giving more weight to the ratings of collaborators makes it easier for them to do so. 
Easier yes, more likely no. You can name and shame, this is far more preferable to wild accusations - I love watching reviewers squirm as they justify their ratings, collaborators doubly so.

I  remember that phrase in a review. Might have been Hugues but I wouldn't swear to it.


-------------
Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Biff Tannen
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 09:45
Naming and shaming won't work, since the reviewers would first deny it, and then insist that fans of said bands are just being crybabies because someone gave them bad reviews, ignoring the fact that the content of their reviews were a sham.  It's like a newspaper critic doing a review of a live show in the paper and saying in it they do not like the band in the first place...it's like, you know the review is gonna be bad cause it is more of a reflection of their hate for the band rather than of the actual quality, so what is the point? 

-------------
"What are you looking at, butthead?"


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 09:46
Originally posted by Biff Tannen

Naming and shaming won't work, since the reviewers would first deny it, and then insist that fans of said bands are just being crybabies because someone gave them bad reviews, ignoring the fact that the content of their reviews were a sham.  It's like a newspaper critic doing a review of a live show in the paper and saying in it they do not like the band in the first place...it's like, you know the review is gonna be bad cause it is more of a reflection of their hate for the band rather than of the actual quality, so what is the point? 

Yes but where did that quote come from?


-------------
Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 13:01
memory is such a fickle thing,
I have searched the database and there are many reviews that make such a claim, however all of them from non-Collabs and none from collabs or official Prog Reviewers - try some of smartpatrol's reviews - Andy makes a point of doing it, probably following after that arch reviewer Torodd Fuglestegg who also used to make specific mention of the word count in his reviews just so he could stretch them out by just a few more words. Bah, but there you go – I’ve named and shamed them both in exactly one hundred words. 


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Biff Tannen
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 13:05
Okay, here is one: Sean Trane's review for The Flower Kings' Space Revolver:

Read my other F K critics as I don't like to repeat myself. But I will have to find something to write if my opinion (which nobody cares for anyway ;-) is to be seen - are we at fifty words yet?

Again , with this album TFK repeats their musical props without changing much of their previous formula. There is of course a solid dose of hard work that going into such an album , (which are finely crafted too and have many positive qualities to their works) >> but I am afraid it is all lost on me. Every single note appears to have been heard in different albums scattered through the prog giants of the 70's.

All kidding aside and not wanting to hurt anybody's feelings but my opinion is: spend your hard earned cash on other Swedish groups that are more worthy of your support.

Okay, he said 50, not 100.  That's even worse. LOL

But really, that is an embarrassing review from a supposed collaborator. 



-------------
"What are you looking at, butthead?"


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 13:15
^ I'll give you that one - he managed to write three times that 50, but it was hardly worth that much effort for the little he managed to say. I've never been a fan of Hugues' reviews - too terse, too hurried and too many of them.

-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:05
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Yeah, why is that, Dean?  It's the 20x rating thing - something the collaborators collectively said "yes, we want to change" and yet it hasn't, because we have no control.  It's a bad system, and it's unfair, and you know it - you just don't want to admit it.
It's not a bad system, it is fairer than allowing biploar rating-only's to overrun the system, and I know both those things and freely admit it.
 
I frequently recompute the average rartings for individual albums to see the effects that these bipolar ratings-only idiots would have on an average rating and it is depressing - no album is immune from their abuse and all suffer in varying degrees, some more than others, and yes, it is the high-profile bands that suffer the most.
 
Since I have to do this long-hand I cannot do it for all albums so I cannot predict the effect that removing the weighting system would have on the charts (although you do seem to be able to make these predictions based on no empirical evidence whatsoever, I am not gifted with that prescience). The individual average rating for all albums will change, I cannot predict in which way they would change - it would depend on whether the bipolar-ratings were predominately 1-star or predominately 5-star for each, some wil go up, some will go down and some will remain more or less the same.
 
I would only support the scrapping of the weighting system if we would abolish rating-only at the same time. If we cannot scrap rating-only the we should compute two averages and have two charts.

Let me repeat this just so it's clear - I am not even pushing to get reviewer status anymore, since I seem to have lost the bug.  The other site I used to write for that actually gave me free music has been begging me to write for them again, and I just can't bring myself to do it any more - mostly because it comes with the responsibility to review albums I just don't like, and it's really hard to write a review for an album that you aren't either thrilled with or despise.  So here's my point: the biggest problem I had with being denied reviewer status is that I was told that I was clearly an expert on Prog Metal, but they only want people who have a more balances profile of reviews spanning all or most of the sub-genres.  But here's the problem with that - you're not getting a balanced perspective that way.  On MMA, if someone is an expert on one sub-genre and one sub-genre only - GREAT!  They want everyone there!  Here, you've got this elitist approach where you only want to represent a certain type of perspective, and that's the biggest problem I have with this site.  You're not willing to represent someone who's "clearly an expert" (not my words - that's a quote) on one sub-genre.  And that's crap, plain and simple.


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:36
Originally posted by Dean

I've never been a fan of Hugues' reviews - too terse, too hurried and too many of them.
 
I was going to say "incoherent" but that works too.
 
Geoff - I think being "an expert" on something by necessity includes a certain degree of knowledge on related things.  Otherwise there is no frame of reference for comparisons etc


-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/TullDerGraff" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:42
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil

 
Geoff - I think being "an expert" on something by necessity includes a certain degree of knowledge on related things.  Otherwise there is no frame of reference for comparisons etc

You don't think I qualify for "expert" status on the subject of Prog Metal?  Take a look at my credentials:
http://rateyourmusic.com/~dtguitarfan" rel="nofollow - http://rateyourmusic.com/~dtguitarfan


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: Biff Tannen
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:53
The one problem I see with being an "expert' in one subgenre, such as prog metal, is it can cause one to overrate bands/albums in that area, while underrating bands/albums in other areas, like a prog metal fan not liking prog rock stuff as much strictly because he prefers metal and he feels the rock stuff isn't ballsy enough for him. Granted, we all have preferences and likings and whatnot, so that is gonna come across with pretty much all of us, but I guess I can see wanting collaborators who are more well-rounded, as they are able to have a bit more perspective across subgenres.  In other words, loving 5 albums in four different subgenres is more impressive than loving 20 albums in a single one.  Diversity is the spice of life!

-------------
"What are you looking at, butthead?"


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 16:01
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Let me repeat this just so it's clear -
Stern Smile whatever made you think it was something that a) I didn't get the first time or that b) I was remotely interested?


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 16:24
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil

 
Geoff - I think being "an expert" on something by necessity includes a certain degree of knowledge on related things.  Otherwise there is no frame of reference for comparisons etc

You don't think I qualify for "expert" status on the subject of Prog Metal?  Take a look at my credentials:
http://rateyourmusic.com/~dtguitarfan" rel="nofollow - http://rateyourmusic.com/~dtguitarfan
 
With all due respect, I feel that your scope is far too limited.  An expert on "Dream Theater -school of Vanilla prog metal," perhaps, but there is a lot more to metal that is progressive than that.  Not to mention influence, origins,



-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/TullDerGraff" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 11 2013 at 16:40
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

  But lets say, just for the sake of argument, that there are some sub genres that just plain suck.  Because you're insisting here that the only people who get collab/reviewer status are people who like all styles, you're not really getting experts now, are you.  You're insisting on only getting people who have bad taste.

Wow, you're on a site that is pretty much inclusive of a broad range of Progressive rock tastes and this is your argument?

Personally I'd go for Sabbath & Motorhead ahead of pretty much anyone else in a metal poll but I'm a more casual fan of the genre and don't have a broad knowledge.

-------------
Ian

Anyone who thinks Kansas is Prog get out of the room - Adolf Hitler



Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: April 12 2013 at 06:50
Originally posted by Biff Tannen

The one problem I see with being an "expert' in one subgenre, such as prog metal, is it can cause one to overrate bands/albums in that area, while underrating bands/albums in other areas, like a prog metal fan not liking prog rock stuff as much strictly because he prefers metal and he feels the rock stuff isn't ballsy enough for him. Granted, we all have preferences and likings and whatnot, so that is gonna come across with pretty much all of us, but I guess I can see wanting collaborators who are more well-rounded, as they are able to have a bit more perspective across subgenres.  In other words, loving 5 albums in four different subgenres is more impressive than loving 20 albums in a single one.  Diversity is the spice of life!

Let's say one of the sub-genres on this site was something that really no one listens to any more - like german beer pub songs.  By only allowing in people who represent sub-genres like this, you bring this sub-genre more into the forefront than it should be - over representing it.  I'm talking about this site representing other perspectives.  Represent the people who are experts in this sub, and that one, and ones who like these two subs but not others, and just that one, and then you have a more balances approach.  But by insisting "you can't be part of this club unless you meet MY requirements" you are misrepresenting how things actually are, and the 20x weighting adds to that problem.  That's what I'm talking about - anyone who has an interest in being a reviewer or collab should be able to get in as long as they prove they aren't some bot, prove they are making an effort to write decent reviews, and as long as they remain civil.  If someone starts posting things that are rude in their reviews then you remove their reviewer status.  But there shouldn't be this requirement that a person represent a certain array of genres - you're skewing things that way.  You're insisting that other people be like the people who are already in power.  Like I said - if the only people who vote for congress members are congress members, the Republican party, which has gone crazy, would eventually be 100% of Congress.


-------------
http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 12 2013 at 07:22

What If games are dumb.

It would also appear that letting people down gently to avoid hurting their feelings is also dumb.


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 12 2013 at 07:45
Geoff, with all due respect:
Having been granted the Prog Reviewer status without ever having asked for it and hearing your laments I can only feel a bit of pity for you. I do have the Reviewer status and I use it so little that I wonder if I really deserve it, you on the other hand are (or was) hungry to get it and you did not. It might seem like a very unfair situation from your point of view.

I will never say that I deserved getting the Reviewer status but OK, they offered it, I initially hesitated and I told PA that I thought I was not worthy of it and that I was not the kind of person that would write lots of reviews. They answered me, 'we don't expect you to write any particular number of reviews per x time, you review if you want to and you don't review if you don't want to'. After a couple of exchanged messages assuring me that I was not incurring into any obligations I accepted.

It's not by asking and whining that you get something, often it's all the opposite. PA is just an entertainment hobby for us but this is a message applicable to much more important things in life. Ambition is not a bad thing per se, but all too often if you act in an openly ambitious or arrogant way ('hey look at my credentials and tell me if I'm not a top Prog Metal expert') the others will not like it. Being determined but always humble, and simply showing your strengths by facts instead of claiming them by your own words tends to work much better.

As for the ratings weighting system, I don't get your approach, it's what it is, the owner and Admins of the site decide it, you may criticise it in a civilised and polite way, but don't mix it with your ranting for not having been granted the Reviewer status.


Posted By: Jbird
Date Posted: April 12 2013 at 07:48
Hmm, German beer pub prog. 

Guitars, bass, keys, drums, & accordions? Tongue


Back to the Metal Madness tournament, Images & Words was my favorite album of all the ones they had, and I love MoP and RIP. The best album won, imo. 


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: July 27 2013 at 22:51
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad


Originally posted by dtguitarfan

  But lets say, just for the sake of argument, that there are some sub genres that just plain suck
Because you're insisting here that the only people who get
collab/reviewer status are people who like all styles, you're not really
getting experts now, are you.  You're insisting on only getting people who have bad taste.
Wow,
you're on a site that is pretty much inclusive of a broad range of
Progressive rock tastes and this is your argument?Personally I'd
go for Sabbath & Motorhead ahead of pretty much anyone else in a
metal poll but I'm a more casual fan of the genre and don't have a broad
knowledge.


Oh let's not forget Rainbow. I think Rainbow Rising was the birth of Hard Rock. The first album was a bit too soft, but for 1974 it had a lot of character to it. Anyway. Great point Noggi. :)

-------------
LIVE AND LET LIVE


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: July 27 2013 at 23:06
Well, what I can say about Dream Theater is that they've got a lot of respect and a good following from people who really thoroughly enjoy music. That's all you can ask for and it's nice they won that metal tourney. They deserve it. Anyone who has studied music or understands music theory/composition knows full well that DT are the real deal. Enough said on that matter.

As for review status. I'm glad that here on PA it's a challenge and an honor to be recognized by your peers on this site. Personally, I don't know how administrators can keep track of who is doing what or how is one contributing constructively.
I've noticed some members here on PA got a 4star collab status with in 1 year! I say that is pretty amazing and it is dedication while using all the sites useful tools to contribute to the world of prog.
After all, it's up to us to form the best comprehensive prog database we can, so let's all work together on this and stop bitching who has more stars than others or wants another star. Let's just think of the love for prog itself. Above all, that is what's most important. We should all share our ideas and work together like we've been doing to keep PA#1!



-------------
LIVE AND LET LIVE


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: July 27 2013 at 23:48
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

not this thread


-------------



Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: July 28 2013 at 11:22
Originally posted by Horizons

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
not this thread


Sorry man. I had to say something. Some really selfish thinking going on here. I'll be closing Pandora's nasty box now.



-------------
LIVE AND LET LIVE


Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 23:10
Originally posted by zeqexes

I don't really like MoP, but I love I&W, so I'm happy with the result
Always liked "Awake" better than "Images and Words," but DT beats Metallica overall regardless...


-------------



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz - http://www.webwiz.co.uk