And Then There Were Three - Underrated??
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Printed Date: April 23 2024 at 03:21
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Topic: And Then There Were Three - Underrated??
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Subject: And Then There Were Three - Underrated??
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 20:36
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Listening to this album, while I see signs of a more pop direction, still has tons of progginess in it, and I genuinely think it's one of the bands best. I don't see why this album seems to be the target of criticism lots of the time, and I'm curious to get opinions on it as aside from reviews I couldn't find much discussion. Please move this, just realized I was in prog polls and not discussion. |
Replies:
Posted By: Master of Time
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 21:17
| Many people on this site love this album, but I am not one of those people. In fact it is probably my least favorite Genesis album. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 21:27
| Nope, it's at least as bad as most people think it is |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 22:50
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Nope, it's rated properly
------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 23:00
It hasn't aged well with me--some of the proggy songs are okay but -it's missing something that could have made it great---Hackett.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 23:04
| I like it quite a bit. I saw this one in concert, and Daryl Stuermer blew me away! Beats the hell out of "We Can't Dance"! |
Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 23:14
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I think it is one of their strongest albums for me, having played out their earlier stuff as a teen. The synthesizer work on this album, and guitar, seems pretty unique. I like all the glissando. I haven't heard as much of it done so well on any other album anywhere. ------------- -- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 23:28
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Progginess or not, it just doesn't do anything for me.
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 23:39
I opened this expecting to see a poll...considering it is in the poll section. Good job.  ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 00:02
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It was my first Genesis album so I have a real soft spot for it. It was brand new when I got it. At the time I wasn't really aware of their history, or that earlier albums included Steve Hackett or Peter Gabriel, so I didn't have that preconceived notion that they were barely a ghost of what they were. So I was able to appreciate it for what it was and not what it could have been. I don't know if it's underrated, it seems pretty highly regarded here anyway. I'll say at least the vinyl pressing I had suffered badly from thin groove syndrome. It was almost an hour long, beyond the limits of vinyl, so the bass is lacking. Some of the songs sound terribly thin, especially the denser ones like Undertow. But I did, and still do like some of the songs a lot. I even liked Snowbound and Say it's Alright Joe, recently mentioned in the "Cringe" thread. Many Too Many and Undertow are both beautiful ballads and Burning Rope and The Lady Lies are cool. It doesn't stack up to anything with Hackett in it though. There's hardly any guitar on it except for Rutherford's trademark arpeggios. Then I got Selling England and found out what real Genesis was. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 00:10
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I loved this album from the moment I heard it (my memory is a bit sketchy here, but around 1988-89) - still enjoy it after all these years. Sure it's more streamlined, but still enough Progginess displayed to be appreciated as a very good, if not excellent, album. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 01:00
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No. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Raccoon
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 01:13
Sounds similar to my story!! Yep, this was the first album that fueled my Genesis Journey. There's power to the synthesizers that make this album classic. Listen to the intro of Deep in the Motherlode, the build-up of Snowbound... Sure the songs are catchy, but is that so bad? Still full of prog, elaborate compositions, strong drums. I've loved every song on this album except for Follow You Follow Me. Not that it was a radio hit, I just find it dull and boring. Why this as an album-closer? After such a high-and-mighty album, why close it with a slow piece like this? Wind & Wuthering closed with the peaceful Afterglow, but in that case it worked perfect. Suppose there's no cohesiveness between the songs in ...And Then There Were Three... that's why FYFM doesn't work... Hm, just a thought... And Then There Were Three deserves an average rating of around 3.75, so yeah, I'd say underrated. May not be essential to any progheads, but a fantastic composition of magical music. Genesis was still riding the wave. Not as strong as the Gabriel-era, (of course) but there's magic behind Trick, Wuthering, Three, and Duke. Once ABACAB came out, all bets were off for Genesis, but that's a whole other story. ------------- Check out my FREE album: A one-man project The Distant Dynasty |
stegor wrote:Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 01:37
Terrific album....Phil never sounded more busy and complex, and I don't think Rutherford ever contributed such a great guitar solo as on `Burning Rope'. The odd average moment here and there, but a wonderful album overall that I very much cherish 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 01:47
| For me Collins was at his peak on this album and pretty much takes it by the scruff of the neck both singing and drumming wise. Shorter tracks but tons of energy and only Follow You Follow Me is a bit of a downer. I get very annoyed though with the assumption that shorter tracks = pop. Also I don't mind romantic lyrics which seems to offend some. You could argue that this was the start of 'neo prog' and was certainly a massive influence on IQ who are one of my favourite bands. I rate it 5 out of 5 although I'm not as beholden as some to the Gabriel era in my mind. I prefer the 4 albums they made 1975-1980 to anything else they did bar Foxtrot. |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 02:23
Richard - SPOT ON 
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 02:33
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Side 2 has some cool tunes and there's a couple of cool outtakes ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 03:35
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I love it. It's probably my favorite album after Selling England. Maybe not a very proggy album, but the songs are very good, the lyrics are excellent, there's intensity and great soloing, and I love the Hipgnosis artwork. I remember that several of my friends, and I, became real Genesis (and prog) collectors after listening to this album.
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 03:47
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I have just listened to it again for the first time in ages - the first time I've played any Genesis for some time.
And, much to my surprise I enjoyed it quite a lot.
Then I put on Selling England and all became clear.
If Genesis had never had Peter Gabriel and Steve Hackett in their ranks; if they had never made the stellar albums from Trespass to Wind and Wuthering, And Then There Were Three would be considered an excellent debut.
But they did those earlier albums and ATTWT just is simply not as good as they were. Not a bad album by any means, but just not as good as what went before. This probably explains why some younger listeners rate the later stuff so highly; they have never heard of the earlier stuff because it doesn't get any radio play (Planet Rock rarely play anything from the quintet's days). ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:19
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It's a collection of very well crafted pop songs that certainly doesn't warrant being pilloried in the way it habitually is on PA. Although not really my thang y'all, I'd choose good Pop over bad Prog any day of the week.
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:27
Well said.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:29
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Never was a favourite of mine. The first genesis album to dissapoint me. Hackett was so evidently missing. They lost that soundscape he seemed to provide. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:10
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One of my favorite Genesis albums, with several of my favorite songs of theirs. I won't go so far as to say it's "underrated" because that would presume that everyone else should feel like I do. Which they should, but I'm not going to come out and say that. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:11
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^ but erm....you have anyway
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Posted By: Einsetumadur
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:14
'Progginess' - what an awful word.  I like ATTWT quite much, it's definitely more consistent than "Wind & Wuthering", whose Side A doesn't impress me a lot as a whole. "Scenes From A Night's Dream" is incredibly good art pop, "Undertow" is a gorgeous ballad, "Burning Rope" and "Down And Out" could be the best keyboard-driven progressive rock which is played on cheesy late-1970s keyboards. The narrative lyrics, especially in "Deep In The Motherlode" and "Down And Out", try too hard to be compelling stories, but turn out quite cheesy in the end... but they don't hurt me a lot. Still, I'm getting more and more dissatisfied by the 2007 remix. Way too much compression, especially the drums in "Undertow" are ridiculously loud and crashing. Suppose the original LP gets the best out of this very good, but unexpectedly 'American'-sounding record. ------------- All in all each man in all men |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:29
------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:42
It was the first Genesis album I ever heard too, and partly for that reason I love it too. I can understand the rating it has here when sat alongside the rest of the bands albums, being reviewed by die hard proggers. For me personally it's a very solid 4 star effort. I still play it quite frequently. I'll never forget the first time I heard Down and Out. The deep pulsing 5/4 beat and the swathes of synth. I'd not really heard anything like that before. This was about 1985, and I knew Collins would become one of my favourite drummers based on his performance in that song. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:50
When I first heard that 5/4 riff on "Down and Out", particularly Phil's drum part, I thought my record was skipping. 
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 08:30
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The unusually long playing time of the record worked out well for me because I used to put my records on one side of a C-90 cassette, which was 45 - 50 minutes, just right for most records. This one is over 50 minutes long, so it cut Follow You Follow Me off after about the first 2 seconds of it. Just enough! I think the put it at the end to say "This is it, folks! from here on this is what you're gonna get." I didn't like Duke. ------------- http://limpidgreen.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://limpidgreen.bandcamp.com/ 
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 08:52
Me too--it's one of my fav songs on the album--I just think Mike's attempt to do Hackett style guitar work is thin---Hackett's input could have made this album great---especially if songs like Say it's alright Joe-and Emo, etc would be cut to be replaced by Hackett songs.
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Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 09:01
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"Hey, there's a Snowman..."
"Scenes from a Night's dream, poor little Nemo!"
No, this album is definitely not underrated.
ATTWT finds Genesis as a new trio, not knowing exactly where to go or what to do. It's a transitional album, somewhere between prog and pop, neither side assumed, so neither side accomplished. In fact, this is probably my least favorite Genesis album. Duke, which came after, was more on the pop side, but at least it was assumed, and it was a damn good pop album with some slight prog elements.
Goes to show how much Hackett's departure hurt Genesis a whole lot more than Gabriel's departure ; A Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering are among Genesis' best works, and then there were three... indeed !
In fact, I'll listen to WaW right now, come to think of it ! ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 09:02
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Only song I REALLY enjoy on this one is Down and Out. The rest ? Meh... ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 09:02
It's funny you should say that. I remember playing that song to two people, convinced it would really impress them, and that's the first thing they both said! The record is jumping!! I was quite disappointed by their reaction, but I guess I can see why they said it.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 09:16
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 09:19
I sometimes skip Snowbound, Scenes from a nights dream & Ballad of Big, but the rest I really like even Follow you Follow me..  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 09:48
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Great one. ------------- |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:06
| I love it, and it is one of my favorite Genesis albums. It is special to me. |
Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:32
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I fell on And then there were three last year.I've always dug Peter Gabriel's Genesis but I wanted to discover another side of Genesis and I really enjoyed the experience.Burning rope delivers the goods!It's a very good mix of well crafted pop and 1st rate prog. ------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world of searchers with the help from crimson king |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:35
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 11:11
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A very good album, "yes". One of their best, "no". Underrated on PA, " Certainly". |
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 12:14
| I suppose, I mean I'll admit some songs are lacking, and the version I have sounds very quiet, and frankly lacking in delivery (which pressing is the best)? Still enjoying it so far, bear in mind I just started listening to these guys about a couple weeks ago. |
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 12:27
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[QUOTE=Triceratopsoil]Nope, it's at least as bad as most people think it is
[/QUOTE) I agree! ------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 12:29
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Yes, IMO it is highly underrated. I love this album; perfect combination of prog and pop. IMO it is very neo-prog. The sound of Collins' drums is amazing on this album! ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 12:46
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It is an odd collection of songs--songs that seem to be patchwork cut-and-pastes of some great parts, some great playing, and a lot of stuff that probably should've been thrown away or reworked. That being said I absolutely LOVE half of "Say it's Alright Joe," "Burning Rope," "Snowbound," "Undertow," and "The Lady Lies" (Incredible drumming!)--but only half of each. Half. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 13:19
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Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 14:16
Correction - I meant Down and Out, not Undertow. And I also thought the odd 5/4 beat sounded like a skip. Sometimes those odd time signatures sound as natural as 4/4, like Living in the Past, where most people wouldn't even notice it's not 4/4. But this one is a real jolter. I just listened to a more modern streaming version of it (not my ancient vinyl) and at least they've improved the sound quality. But that beat-skip still took me by surprise, 35 years later. I like surprises. ------------- http://limpidgreen.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://limpidgreen.bandcamp.com/
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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 18:01
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Definitely includes some of my all-time most hated Genesis tracks like, "Follow You, Follow Me", "Say it's Alright Joe", and "Scenes from a Nights Dream", but there are some great tracks hiding among the rubbish like "Down and Out", "Deep in the Motherlode" & "Burning Rope." ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 18:31
| "Deep In The Motherlode" is great. Good-to-tolerable for most of the rest. Some of it is downright embarrassing. |
Posted By: cemego
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 20:00
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Personally, I dont think my Genesis collection would be complete without the tunes "Down and Out" and "The Lady Lies".... In my opinion, these tracks are just as essential as any genesis track. These save this album for me. ------------- listen to streaming stuff! no commercials! http://wmom.servemp3.com:8000/listen.pls |
Posted By: MJAben
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 20:11
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That area where it gets to Snowbound and The Burning Rope is quite decent, but no more (and that's the highlight of the album for me)... I think 3 stars is a generous rating. ------------- The anteater is the worlds fastest land mammal. |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 20:23
Same here ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 23:54
| There's a lot of love for the track 'Deep In The Motherlode' - this song is my least-liked track, save for the interlude. I don't dig that dun-dudun-dudun-dududududun rhythm at all. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 00:00
| Yes, it is underrated. It's a nice crossover prog album without a question. |
Posted By: snowsnow
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 02:50
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ATTWT is to Genesis what Tormato was for Yes - the start of their respective declines (IMHO) - despite the odd good bit here and there since. But I'm obviously extremely grateful for the great music both made between 71-77.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 03:34
Duke is a strange album for me as it hits some great highs but plumbs some depths. I think the 'real' pop side of Genesis was beginning to surface on Misunderstanding and some of the songs on Side Two are just plain throwaway imo. The 'Duke Suite' stands up though and is arguably one of the best things they ever did ( even if it is split apart on the album)
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 03:36
funny as I always like that rhythm. I guess you must hate ELP as they used it quite a bit?
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 04:25
It's weird, I just don't dig Genesis doing that bluesy thing.....
I.Q. do it towards the end of "The Enemy Smacks' and it's plain brilliant. I just never went for Motherload....
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 04:27
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Down and Out is a vissios song, vissious i say yah, it is a very good album full of melody and colours, I really love Say Its Alright Joe -------------  
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 04:37
Where did they use that? First I didn't like Deep In The Motherlode much, but it may now even be my favorite track on ATTWT.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 04:44
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Aklways have and always will like Deep In The Motherlode ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 05:02
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no standout track on this cd, equally tasty!
------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 12:31
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I think it is a superb album. BBC's Nationwide (remember that?) did a piece on the resulting tour, which undoubtedly brought prog to a wider audience. It is lush, full of that lovely wall of sound, and Rutherford certainly never sounded better. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 12:49
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Love Hate relationship with ATTWT. I absolutely love 'Down and Out' (I never thought it sounded like it jumped) superb drumming from Mr Collins and packs a lot in a short time. I remember when it came out I thought that it was a good thing that they wanted to do something different in terms of shorter tracks. But, shorter doesn't mean any worse. I 'hate' (too strong a word really) 'Snowbound' and perhaps 'Ballad of Big' mainly because the lyricas are awful. THe rest of the album is all good and I do really like FYFM because it is a great pop song ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 13:14
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I agree wholeheartedly with Lazland!! ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 13:18
Well said! ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |