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Can a band be prog without making a studio album?

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Topic: Can a band be prog without making a studio album?
Posted By: Stool Man
Subject: Can a band be prog without making a studio album?
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 01:46
What if a band was very prog,undeniably and obviously prog in its sound and style and instrumentation and technique and all the rest of it, but with the exception that the band never makes a studio album, only live albums.  How important is the studio album in regarding this-or-that band as being prog? 
If the only Gentle Giant album was Playing The Fool,  or if the only Genesis album was Seconds Out, would they be prog?
If the only Dream Theater albums were their live ones, would they be prog?
 
We seem to mainly focus on a band's studio albums, but what if a band never made one, yet was prolific in the release of live recordings?
 


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rotten hound of the burnie crew



Replies:
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 02:02
Why should not releasing studio albums prevent a band from being considered prog? if the music they play is prog, it's a prog band (I am assuming that they play original material).
They do not need recording live albums either, many bands have started their careers playing live and only when they could afford it they released their first studio album.


Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 02:36
Yeah, albums are just tangible products containing the group/artist's creative efforts, not the creativity itself. Progressive status is one donned by groups/artists who set out to create music that pushes and extends musical boundaries to operates outside the narrow confines of superficiality. Whether or not they actually record anything doesn't have any bearing on the progressive nature or spirit itself. 


Posted By: zeqexes
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 03:17
^ What these two have said.

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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 05:35
I don't see why not, Seconds Out contains Supper's Ready which is a prog song regardless of being studio or live.
 
Was there ever such a band?


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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 05:55
Anyone who grew up in Glasgow between 1974 and 1980 and frequented the live pub music circuit, would be familiar with Chou Pahrot, a fully fledged Prog band from Paisley who played a hybrid blend of Zappa, Beefheart, Modern Jazz, Crimson, Bartok and Stravinsky (they also sang their 'Sunday Post surrealist' lyrics in broad Glaswegian accents, contrary to the fashion of the day)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chou_Pahrot" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chou_Pahrot

Chou Pahrot's only full length release was a live album in 1979 (excellent)

This had been preceded by a now, much sought after EP Buzgo Tram Chorus (excellent)

Funny how they ain't on PACry (Reminds me to suggest them perchance)

[TUBE]uj8-pkdKK6g[/TUBE]





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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 06:08
Originally posted by chopper

Was there ever such a band?
 
The band I play in has never made a studio album, although we have recorded live while in a studio (and with no post-production or overdubbing of any kind)
 


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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 08:15
what do you mean by "regarding this-or-that band as being prog" ..?
 
We can play these games all day :
 
- can we regard a Yes tribute band as being Prog?
 
- would we consider a band that never recorded anything as being Prog?
 
If you are implying the "being Prog" is shorthand for "...for being added to the PA database" then I would say - probably not. We are not a database of and for unsigned bands even in an age of mp3 downloads and self-released albums.


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 08:59
Originally posted by Stool Man

 
The band I play in has never made a studio album, although we have recorded live while in a studio (and with no post-production or overdubbing of any kind)
 
If what you meant was 'look, our band has not released any studio album (whether recording was 'live in the studio' or with edits it doesn't make any difference), but could it qualify to be listed in PA?' the answer is clear in the criteria for bands inclusion: the band needs to have 'signed status', i.e. some commercially available release. As far as I know it does not matter whether the release is 'studio' or 'live' or 'recorded live in studio'.


Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 10:26
Is this seriously a question?

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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 10:41
see for reference http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=6890" rel="nofollow - Fractale

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Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 11:18
The Grateful Dead were never really known for their studio albums (not compared to the live stuff anyway). So if that's the sort of idea you had in mind, than sure, I see no reason why not.


Posted By: MustardSea
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 13:24
Just look at My Brother The Wind - their "studio" albums are basically just live jams they recorded while playing in the studio.
Or take Badger, their first album was basically a live album recorded while opening for Yes.


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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 13:32
If Colosseum realeased only their live would have been added to the site? I guess yes.

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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 15:58
Originally posted by pianoman

Is this seriously a question?
Well, apparently, it is.
Originally posted by Gerinski

Why should not releasing studio albums prevent a band from being considered prog? if the music they play is prog, it's a prog band (I am assuming that they play original material).
They do not need recording live albums either, many bands have started their careers playing live and only when they could afford it they released their first studio album.
What this man said.

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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 16:27
Can a band be prog without playing any music at all?


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 16:52
Originally posted by Padraic

Can a band be prog without playing any music at all?
I think a lot of them already are.

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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 17:38
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

Originally posted by pianoman

Is this seriously a question?
Well, apparently, it is.
Originally posted by Gerinski

Why should not releasing studio albums prevent a band from being considered prog? if the music they play is prog, it's a prog band (I am assuming that they play original material).
They do not need recording live albums either, many bands have started their careers playing live and only when they could afford it they released their first studio album.
What this man said.


A band is progressive the moment they start playing progressive music. Whether they record it or not is COMPLETELY irrelevant. I've seen some silly posts on PA, but this takes the cake.

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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 17:40
^ Bear in mind that there must be a myriad of posts noting the difference between "prog" (as in the thread title) and "progressive" (as in your reference). Takes the cake now?

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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 17:43
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ Bear in mind that there must be a myriad of posts noting the difference between "prog" (as in the thread title) and "progressive" (as in your reference). Takes the cake now?



It still doesn't matter though. If a "prog" band makes "prog" music, then it still doesn't matter whether they have a studio record or not. It's like saying King Crimson wasn't a prog band before ITCOTCK, even though they still played plenty of live shows.

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INVOLVED: Electronic/Ambient/Progressive music. A collaboration between member of the post-rock collective BATTLESTATIONS and I. Enjoy!
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 17:43
Could be the same for any genre. The genre is irrelevant.

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INVOLVED: Electronic/Ambient/Progressive music. A collaboration between member of the post-rock collective BATTLESTATIONS and I. Enjoy!
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 17:44
Sorry, it's 3:43pm here, and I still haven't got enough sleep.

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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 17:45
Its all good! Haha

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INVOLVED: Electronic/Ambient/Progressive music. A collaboration between member of the post-rock collective BATTLESTATIONS and I. Enjoy!
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 18:06
I don't see why they can't be ?

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Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:57
Originally posted by Stool Man

What if a band was very prog,undeniably and obviously prog in its sound and style and instrumentation and technique and all the rest of it, but with the exception that the band never makes a studio album, only live albums.  How important is the studio album in regarding this-or-that band as being prog? 
If the only Gentle Giant album was Playing The Fool,  or if the only Genesis album was Seconds Out, would they be prog?
If the only Dream Theater albums were their live ones, would they be prog?
 
We seem to mainly focus on a band's studio albums, but what if a band never made one, yet was prolific in the release of live recordings?
 
 
Bizarre question ... !!!
 
You don't need a studio anymore ... there isn't a DAW out there that can't even Master your own work!
 
Strange to even hear that question ... like people can not have a musical ability that Mozart had a few years back, or that the Beatles had 50 years ago! Or the ability to manipulate a DAW, and do work far more progressive, interesting and experimental than anything we have ever heard or seen!
 
One note, though ... it could be said, and stated in the definition of "progressive" that the requirement might be the human element, with 2 or more folks playing together ... so when you hear Gary Green tell you that ... we just played and that it was improvised ... you don't go freaking out because you have no idea where to start that ... but the harmony quota would be even easier and crazier adn more fun to put together in a DAW, I bet! And this might be where, a lot of modern players, have not yet gotten to go crazy and have fun with the tools that they are working on.


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: horza
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 00:56
Originally posted by ExittheLemming


Anyone who grew up in Glasgow between 1974 and 1980 and frequented the live pub music circuit, would be familiar with Chou Pahrot, a fully fledged Prog band from Paisley who played a hybrid blend of Zappa, Beefheart, Modern Jazz, Crimson, Bartok and Stravinsky (they also sang their 'Sunday Post surrealist' lyrics in broad Glaswegian accents, contrary to the fashion of the day) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chou_Pahrot" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chou_Pahrot Chou Pahrot's only full length release was a live album in 1979 (excellent)This had been preceded by a now, much sought after EP Buzgo Tram Chorus (excellent)Funny how they ain't on PACry (Reminds me to suggest them perchance)[TUBE]uj8-pkdKK6g[/TUBE]


I remember this band!! Thanks for reminding me.

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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 06:32
Originally posted by moshkito

... like people can not have a musical ability that Mozart had a few years back
There you go , Mozart made no studio albums + Mozart is not Prog. = You can not be Prog. unless you make a studio album.
Simple as that Approve  


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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 06:39
Originally posted by tamijo

Originally posted by moshkito

... like people can not have a musical ability that Mozart had a few years back
There you go , Mozart made no studio albums + Mozart is not Prog. = You can not be Prog. unless you make a studio album.
Simple as that Approve  
There's a flaw in that logic.

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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 11:59
Originally posted by chopper

Originally posted by tamijo

Originally posted by moshkito

... like people can not have a musical ability that Mozart had a few years back
There you go , Mozart made no studio albums + Mozart is not Prog. = You can not be Prog. unless you make a studio album.
Simple as that Approve  
There's a flaw in that logic.
Absolutely, the flaw lies in the question


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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 12:23
Originally posted by pianoman

Is this seriously a question?


Haha yes!! What the f**k is everyone going on about here? Prog is prog weather you hear it live or from a studio recording. You don't have to have the tangibles to back it up like studio album cd's. Also if the live album is good enough like the aforementioned SECONDS OUT, it's still prog baby!!

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I kneel to the alter of ARCAM.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 12:38
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by pianoman

Is this seriously a question?


Haha yes!! What the f**k is everyone going on about here? Prog is prog weather you hear it live or from a studio recording. You don't have to have the tangibles to back it up like studio album cd's. Also if the live album is good enough like the aforementioned SECONDS OUT, it's still prog baby!!
I suspect Stewart (the OP) is wondering why, after 5 years of asking, A Band is not listed in the PA.

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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 28 2013 at 17:55
Originally posted by tamijo

Originally posted by chopper

Originally posted by tamijo

Originally posted by moshkito

... like people can not have a musical ability that Mozart had a few years back
There you go , Mozart made no studio albums + Mozart is not Prog. = You can not be Prog. unless you make a studio album.
Simple as that Approve  
There's a flaw in that logic.
Absolutely, the flaw lies in the question
 
Yeah, but you did not see that I made a comparative statement that you took off on your own tangent and immediately transposed Mozart to today's time, when that is NOT what I did! So, your coment ... is quite un-necessary and wrong ... again, based on what you said, eeveryone is too stupid to be able to create anything Prog ... or even come close to make a studio album!
 
You could not possibly see that I think that many of the folks in the area or "progressive" are far better composers of music than Mozart ever was! Of course not, you treat all these prog folks as idiots, from your comment! Tongue ... ohh wait ... you wouldn't know about A=B and B=C and this C equals A thing ... that's just not smart logic for your reading! Wink


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Posted By: Larree
Date Posted: April 28 2013 at 18:08
Maybe the question should be can a band be prog if they do not have the money or gear to record their music and no label wants to sign them because they are not (potentially) commercial enough?  Cool

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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 28 2013 at 22:05
Computer says no.

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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 29 2013 at 10:33
Originally posted by Larree

Maybe the question should be can a band be prog if they do not have the money or gear to record their music and no label wants to sign them because they are not (potentially) commercial enough?  Cool
 
As Dean said ...
 
YES
 
Next!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: April 29 2013 at 10:39
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by pianoman

Is this seriously a question?


Haha yes!! What the f**k is everyone going on about here? Prog is prog weather you hear it live or from a studio recording. You don't have to have the tangibles to back it up like studio album cd's. Also if the live album is good enough like the aforementioned SECONDS OUT, it's still prog baby!!
I suspect Stewart (the OP) is wondering why, after 5 years of asking, A Band is not listed in the PA.
We were added a year ago, it only took four years of asking Big smile
 
 


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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 22:14
If a band is playing progressive music in the forest and there's no one there to hear them, are they still Prog?


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 23:08
Of course they still are.

> "Well, yeah, brilliant deduction, you genius."


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"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 23:31
Like them?

[TUBE]_u8hln3cAjM[/TUBE]


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 04 2013 at 14:20
Originally posted by HackettFan

If a band is playing progressive music in the forest and there's no one there to hear them, are they still Prog?
 
BUT ... does it diminish what the work is ... for them?
 
Or does it raise it, for that matter!
 
And that's an issue ... minor one!
 
But the history of the arts is predicated on it BEING HEARD/BEING SEEN/BEING READ ... which kinda defeats your wording and statement!
 
So, if you just play for yourself in the garage and no one will hear it ... fine ... but if your son lets it out after you do, and we listen to it and go ... wow ... that's progressive ... that's a whole different other story, isn't it.
 
Let's all do the timewarp now!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: May 04 2013 at 17:02
Originally posted by octopus-4


Like them?
[TUBE]_u8hln3cAjM[/TUBE]



We heard it now, so I guess it is.

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INVOLVED: Electronic/Ambient/Progressive music. A collaboration between member of the post-rock collective BATTLESTATIONS and I. Enjoy!
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 05 2013 at 23:35


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 05 2013 at 23:43
Originally posted by HackettFan

If a band is playing progressive music in the forest and there's no one there to hear them, are they still Prog?

Everyone understands I was being rather tongue in cheek here, I hope.
Where's our Progosopher?


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 06 2013 at 00:06
Hmmmm... Tony Kaye's Badger had a live debut release, "One Live Badger."  I didn't know of any followup, but they did release a studio work called "White Lady" after Tony left.  I've never heard that one.

"One Live Badger" was quite good, and it had an exquisite Roger Dean cover!  




Posted By: kimtahyuk
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 14:27
I wouldn't listen then, for the beauty of prog is perfectionism to me.
that's why I like glenn gould so much he was obsessed with studio recording.


Posted By: Larree
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 15:10
Originally posted by pianoman

Originally posted by octopus-4


Like them?
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We heard it now, so I guess it is.

Cool stuff!


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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 17:42
Originally posted by Larree

Originally posted by pianoman

Originally posted by octopus-4


Like them?
[TUBE]_u8hln3cAjM[/TUBE]



We heard it now, so I guess it is.

Cool stuff!
Suggested and rejected some months ago, but I'm not sure to have chosen the right subgenre. Do you think they are prog at least? 


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: Investinmolden
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 15:12
I think it can be the question about studio effects - are they so essential to music which we consider as prog rock or they are not? You can easily imagnine (and hear of course) King Crimson, Yes, ELP or even Marillion and Dream Theater playing live same stuff as on studio album. But then take,for the example, most known progressive Pink Floyd albums like Dark Side of the Moon or Whish You Were Here - they're very "produced" (which I mean very well produced) and sample tracks need to be used live to make it sound enjoyable.

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Posted By: Big Ears
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 16:21
I don't remember Atomic Rooster releasing a live album in their heyday.


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Posted By: Nick Dilley
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 00:28
Originally posted by Stool Man

What if a band was very prog,undeniably and obviously prog in its sound and style and instrumentation and technique and all the rest of it, but with the exception that the band never makes a studio album, only live albums.  How important is the studio album in regarding this-or-that band as being prog? 
If the only Gentle Giant album was Playing The Fool,  or if the only Genesis album was Seconds Out, would they be prog?
If the only Dream Theater albums were their live ones, would they be prog?
 
We seem to mainly focus on a band's studio albums, but what if a band never made one, yet was prolific in the release of live recordings?
 


I think that if a band only made live albums, and the production/performance/music was good, it would be awesome!




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Posted By: Nick Dilley
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 00:40
Originally posted by Investinmolden

I think it can be the question about studio effects - are they so essential to music which we consider as prog rock or they are not? You can easily imagnine (and hear of course) King Crimson, Yes, ELP or even Marillion and Dream Theater playing live same stuff as on studio album. But then take,for the example, most known progressive Pink Floyd albums like Dark Side of the Moon or Whish You Were Here - they're very "produced" (which I mean very well produced) and sample tracks need to be used live to make it sound enjoyable.


But sampling can be done live to great effect. And, I for one really dig it when people can control it themselves, making it a relatively more viable part of the artistic experience.


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Progging the Rock, Rocking the Prog.

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withinareverie.blogspot.com
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Posted By: Investinmolden
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 11:21
You're right - live sampling requiers as much knowledge and practice as playing "typical" instrument. That's definitly worth to hear and watch :)

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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 00:52
Originally posted by Stool Man

What if a band was very prog,undeniably and obviously prog in its sound and style and instrumentation and technique and all the rest of it, but with the exception that the band never makes a studio album, only live albums.  How important is the studio album in regarding this-or-that band as being prog? 
If the only Gentle Giant album was Playing The Fool,  or if the only Genesis album was Seconds Out, would they be prog?
If the only Dream Theater albums were their live ones, would they be prog?
 
We seem to mainly focus on a band's studio albums, but what if a band never made one, yet was prolific in the release of live recordings?
 

A prog band  can exists without studio album(s) but the studio work with all of studio effects made prog as a genre  imo.


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 01:45
Originally posted by octopus-4

Originally posted by Larree

Originally posted by pianoman

Originally posted by octopus-4


Like them?
[TUBE]_u8hln3cAjM[/TUBE]



We heard it now, so I guess it is.

Cool stuff!
Suggested and rejected some months ago, but I'm not sure to have chosen the right subgenre. Do you think they are prog at least? 
Cool Cool Cool, that music !

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My Music: www.jokeinc.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - www.jokeinc.bandcamp.com
My blog: www.tamijo2013.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - www.tamijo2013.wordpress.com


Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 23:03
Sure a band can be "prog" without a studio album.  Twelfth Night released 2 or 3 live cassette only albums before they were able to record "Fact and Fiction".  They didn't magically "become prog" (or neo-prog in their case) by stepping into a recording studio.  


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I'm using the chicken to measure it.


Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: August 30 2013 at 15:29
To answer your question, definitely. Lots of examples already said Big smile



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