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Longevity

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Printed Date: August 28 2014 at 08:22
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Topic: Longevity
Posted By: Stool Man
Subject: Longevity
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 02:17
Many of the old prog bands of the late 60s/early 70s are still going, still touring, still making new albums. This is, of course, a very good thing. And now that prog is on the up again, even the later bands are starting to be among the older bands around - it's been thirty years since bands like IQ and Marillion released their debut albums. And as well there are a number of bands that I would consider new which have been releasing albums for twenty years.
I wonder which of the 20-year bands will be around in another 20 years, and I wonder which of the 40-year+ bands will be releasing new albums fifty years after their debut.
Lineup changes help, of course.

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rotten hound of the burnie crew



Replies:
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 03:53
i hope that the band who have enough inspiration to create some great music will still be releasing new stuff. My guess is Flower Kings, Marillion,Anglagard (with 2 more cds in 20 years...), maybe Echolyn, IQ, Galahad, Glass Hammer, Neal Morse, Spock's Beard. Porcupine Tree and the only band of 40 year old that i want to continue after 50 years is Rush, i just hope that Yes quit unless Chris Squire can find anyone to create some interesting new music and not only to tour around the world by playing the same old songs.


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“Art is the proper task of life. ”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens".
- Woody Allen




Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 04:12
Originally posted by rdtprog

i just hope that Yes quit unless Chris Squire can find anyone to create some interesting new music and not only to tour around the world by playing the same old songs.


You didn't like Fly From Here then?

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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 04:34
Originally posted by Stool Man

Originally posted by rdtprog

i just hope that Yes quit unless Chris Squire can find anyone to create some interesting new music and not only to tour around the world by playing the same old songs.


You didn't like Fly From Here then?


Yes that what not so bad, but how many years for another one? and why the band don't play songs from this one on their tour? And remember that most of that cd was a song made on the Drama recording.


-------------
“Art is the proper task of life. ”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens".
- Woody Allen




Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 04:40
Focus & Hawkwind have both released great albums in recent times.

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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 10:31
Klaus Doldinger's Passport is still going strong since '71, though Doldinger is the only original member. (And i happen to be in Canada,where they will not play concerts )

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"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               


Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 12:21
Originally posted by presdoug

Klaus Doldinger's Passport is still going strong since '71, though Doldinger is the only original member. (And i happen to be in Canada,where they will not play concerts )

A lot of great & longlived bands have only the one original member - some have none.

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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 14:40
Rush will continue till they drop

Yes will carry on with a tribute style line up as plenty are ready and able to step in when needed.

Radiohead will still be a miserable bunch of b*****ds in 20 years timeHug


Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 15:51
Longevity is fine. But some bands are like that last guys at the party that sits around drunk telling you the same boring stories with his sloppy slurred speech long after you are ready to go to bed.

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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 15:59
I'm not so sure this a very good thing. LOL

A lot of the greats from the '70's drifted off into commercialits. Yes became very stale for me...

I wouldn't be surprised if Rush carries on as heads in jars like Futureama. LOL


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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 16:22
Originally posted by Slartibartfast

I'm not so sure this a very good thing. LOL

A lot of the greats from the '70's drifted off into commercialits. Yes became very stale for me...
. LOL


Not King Crimson i think, they get better with age, but at a very slow pace...LOL




-------------
“Art is the proper task of life. ”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens".
- Woody Allen




Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 16:34
Originally posted by Stool Man

Originally posted by presdoug

Klaus Doldinger's Passport is still going strong since '71, though Doldinger is the only original member. (And i happen to be in Canada,where they will not play concerts )

A lot of great & longlived bands have only the one original member - some have none.
yeah, i do realise this, very true

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"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               


Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 16:43
Dream Theater is one of those bands where you don't realize how long they've been around; 24 years and counting, with a new album coming this fall!  I think they're the kind of band that could be around practically forever, although their longevity is going to be contingent on how long it takes for Labrie's voice to go pop.


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In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 22:02
RUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSHHHHHHHHH

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Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 02:06
What about Camel? After recovering from his serious ill, Andy Latimer is back on tour and has promised a new album soon. it's 40 years this year since the debut album was released

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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 04:14
Originally posted by progbethyname

RUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSHHHHHHHHH


if you notice on the last ceremony, Alex is starting to be out of words, maybe a sign that there about to quit their career in music and go to the movies industry...Wink


-------------
“Art is the proper task of life. ”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens".
- Woody Allen




Posted By: zeqexes
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 06:03
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes

Dream Theater is one of those bands where you don't realize how long they've been around; 24 years and counting, with a new album coming this fall!  I think they're the kind of band that could be around practically forever, although their longevity is going to be contingent on how long it takes for Labrie's voice to go pop.

Actually it's closer to 28 years, if you count the years before the debut album. And I agree about LaBrie. If their newest album doesn't really show any spark or creative difference from their other albums, then I think a lot of people will say that they've reached the stage where the best is behind them.


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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 09:35
Does anyone have anything to say about Soft Machine Legacy?  Is theirs a valid way to continue?

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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 11:45
Originally posted by rdtprog


Originally posted by progbethyname

RUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSHHHHHHHHH
if you notice on the last ceremony, Alex is starting to be out of words, maybe a sign that there about to quit their career in music and go to the movies industry...Wink


I quite enjoyed the 'blah blah blub blub blah blah' speech. It conveyed so much.

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Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 11:49
Originally posted by zeqexes


Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes

Dream Theater is one of those bands where you don't realize how long they've been around; 24 years and counting, with a new album coming this fall!  I think they're the kind of band that could be around practically forever, although their longevity is going to be contingent on how long it takes for Labrie's voice to go pop.


Actually it's closer to 28 years, if you count the years before the debut album. And I agree about LaBrie. If their newest album doesn't really show any spark or creative difference from their other albums, then I think a lot of people will say that they've reached the stage where the best is behind them.


It is 28. We cannot forget those majesty days and I'm like you guys where by I'm very excited to see what lies ahead. Dream theaters last album was nothing short of amazing. That track, Outcry is an immediate attack of the senses. Wow.
I believe I gave the album a 5/5

-------------
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 12:44
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by zeqexes


Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes

Dream Theater is one of those bands where you don't realize how long they've been around; 24 years and counting, with a new album coming this fall!  I think they're the kind of band that could be around practically forever, although their longevity is going to be contingent on how long it takes for Labrie's voice to go pop.


Actually it's closer to 28 years, if you count the years before the debut album. And I agree about LaBrie. If their newest album doesn't really show any spark or creative difference from their other albums, then I think a lot of people will say that they've reached the stage where the best is behind them.


It is 28. We cannot forget those majesty days and I'm like you guys where by I'm very excited to see what lies ahead. Dream theaters last album was nothing short of amazing. That track, Outcry is an immediate attack of the senses. Wow.
I believe I gave the album a 5/5


Yeah, I didn't know how long they had been together beforehand so just counted it from the debut.  I also loved ADTOE and think it's one of their best, but I do think they've reached a point where it's time to go in another creative direction; I'm thinking something like Six Degrees, where the band mingled a lot of other styles and influences into their sound while still sounding like themselves.  But because they're more mature composers now, I think they could manage to write an album that's more coherent and less sprawling than 6DoIT.

I really, really do hope that Labrie can hold his voice together.  He sounded great on the last record but from what video I've seen of live performances it sounds like he's trying too hard.  I think a more melodic, less "metal" direction for his vocals on the next album, with a bit of range adjustment, would make the live performances of the new songs better.


-------------
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 13:57
If there are some musical ensembles to play Middle Age music, we can bet that some musicians would enjoy playing the repertoire of the 20th century's Rock music: we already have The Watch, Soft Machine Legacy, Mahavishnu Project, Zappa Plays Zappa...
Then, it doesn't sound crazy to think that some names would be carried towards the next centuries and that our children's children's children will queue to get tickets for the next concert of Yes - The 4th Generation or something like that.


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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 14:42
Originally posted by Slartibartfast

I'm not so sure this a very good thing. LOL

A lot of the greats from the '70's drifted off into commercialits. Yes became very stale for me...

I wouldn't be surprised if Rush carries on as heads in jars like Futureama. LOL
LOL Oh yes, that sounds really typical!


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 19:13
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes


Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by zeqexes


Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes

Dream Theater is one of those bands where you don't realize how long they've been around; 24 years and counting, with a new album coming this fall!  I think they're the kind of band that could be around practically forever, although their longevity is going to be contingent on how long it takes for Labrie's voice to go pop.


Actually it's closer to 28 years, if you count the years before the debut album. And I agree about LaBrie. If their newest album doesn't really show any spark or creative difference from their other albums, then I think a lot of people will say that they've reached the stage where the best is behind them.


It is 28. We cannot forget those majesty days and I'm like you guys where by I'm very excited to see what lies ahead. Dream theaters last album was nothing short of amazing. That track, Outcry is an immediate attack of the senses. Wow.
I believe I gave the album a 5/5
Yeah, I didn't know how long they had been together beforehand so just counted it from the debut.  I also loved ADTOE and think it's one of their best, but I do think they've reached a point where it's time to go in another creative direction; I'm thinking something like Six Degrees, where the band mingled a lot of other styles and influences into their sound while still sounding like themselves.  But because they're more mature composers now, I think they could manage to write an album that's more coherent and less sprawling than 6DoIT.I really, really do hope that Labrie can hold his voice together.  He sounded great on the last record but from what video I've seen of live performances it sounds like he's trying too hard.  I think a more melodic, less "metal" direction for his vocals on the next album, with a bit of range adjustment, would make the live performances of the new songs better.


I agree about Mr. LaBrie voice. He needs to sound like he did on The Score: 25th anniversary live at radio city music hall. That was the best he ever sounded. He took the metal out of his voice and preceded to sound like the melodical juggernaut he is! My favourite performance from him live. My least was the DVD set of Chaos in Motion. It sounds like he trying to be a true metal voice, but he can't do it. It's just not him. He's not freakin Dave Mustaine. I found he tried to sound like him on the track 'the count of tuscany.'

-------------
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: bonestorm
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 20:26
I think the age of the band is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is whether or not they're putting out good music.  Some bands can have members in their 40s and 50s still come up with ideas and something new.  Other bands of 20-somethings put out one album and then run out of inspiration even though they are quite young.  I know which I'd rather listen to.

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Hibernal http://hibernal.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - http://hibernal.bandcamp.com
"This is a stunning work of art" - Muzik Reviews
"A precious gem" - Dante's Prog


Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: May 22 2013 at 20:34

 

Originally posted by bonestorm

I think the age of the band is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is whether or not they're putting out good music.

This. A thousand times this. Clap



Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: May 23 2013 at 20:40
A lot of bands have made great music that had no longevity.  And when
some of them produced something after a while you almost wish they didn't.

Art is the only area in life where you can say nasty things about someone and
not feel like a scoundrel.  


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--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net




Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 23 2013 at 23:28
Originally posted by Neo-Romantic

 

Originally posted by bonestorm

I think the age of the band is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is whether or not they're putting out good music.


This. A thousand times this. Clap



Yeah. Like DreamTheater. Those guys will probably last till their 60 and still put out great music. :)

-------------
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: May 24 2013 at 14:20
Originally posted by octopus-4

What about Camel? After recovering from his serious ill, Andy Latimer is back on tour and has promised a new album soon. it's 40 years this year since the debut album was released
Agreed.  And, so glad that Latimer is back in good health...


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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 24 2013 at 15:32
Originally posted by CPicard

If there are some musical ensembles to play Middle Age music, we can bet that some musicians would enjoy playing the repertoire of the 20th century's Rock music: we already have The Watch, Soft Machine Legacy, Mahavishnu Project, Zappa Plays Zappa... Then, it doesn't sound crazy to think that some names would be carried towards the next centuries and that our children's children's children will queue to get tickets for the next concert of Yes - The 4th Generation or something like that.

The Glenn Miller Orchestra are the granddaddy of this. Still going strong after reforming in 1956

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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: Second Life Syndrome
Date Posted: May 24 2013 at 22:38
I just worry about longevity because I feel, at a certain point, their names keep them going more than any innovation or musical genius.  Rush has kinda sounded the same for forever.  Dream Theater is probably the worst offender, though.  They haven't changed much at all in the past 20 years.  Yet, their fans still faithfully buy the music: More power to them if they like that sort of thing.  I guess stale prog is better than no prog at all.  Confused


Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 24 2013 at 23:16
I think you'll find that Rush have not sounded the same forever.
As for the fans still faithfully buying the music, that's mostly new fans buying the new music. For example, most early Pink Floyd fans who bought The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn in 1967 would have gone off the new sound of the later Pink Floyd heard on, say, Meddle. The new fans who bought that album when it was released would later mostly be replaced by another generation of new fans who bought The Wall. Later on again, The Division Bell was largely bought by another new generation of fans, many of whom thought that the band's first album was The Dark Side Of The Moon. I exaggerate, of course, but the point is that over a long period of time the people buying a band's albums are different people. There are loads of other examples of a band's sound changing over time

-------------
rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: Second Life Syndrome
Date Posted: May 24 2013 at 23:32
Originally posted by Stool Man

I think you'll find that Rush have not sounded the same forever.
As for the fans still faithfully buying the music, that's mostly new fans buying the new music. For example, most early Pink Floyd fans who bought The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn in 1967 would have gone off the new sound of the later Pink Floyd heard on, say, Meddle. The new fans who bought that album when it was released would later mostly be replaced by another generation of new fans who bought The Wall. Later on again, The Division Bell was largely bought by another new generation of fans, many of whom thought that the band's first album was The Dark Side Of The Moon. I exaggerate, of course, but the point is that over a long period of time the people buying a band's albums are different people. There are loads of other examples of a band's sound changing over time

Good point.  


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 24 2013 at 23:38
Originally posted by Second Life Syndrome


Originally posted by Stool Man

I think you'll find that Rush have not sounded the same forever.
As for the fans still faithfully buying the music, that's mostly new fans buying the new music. For example, most early Pink Floyd fans who bought The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn in 1967 would have gone off the new sound of the later Pink Floyd heard on, say, Meddle. The new fans who bought that album when it was released would later mostly be replaced by another generation of new fans who bought The Wall. Later on again, The Division Bell was largely bought by another new generation of fans, many of whom thought that the band's first album was The Dark Side Of The Moon. I exaggerate, of course, but the point is that over a long period of time the people buying a band's albums are different people. There are loads of other examples of a band's sound changing over time

Good point.  


Good bands like RUSH don't have to sound exactly the same as they did in the past. For example, geddy's voice is not as good as it was 15 years live. Neil Peart is not as fast as he was, but they still make quality music and they still sound great. My longevity, in prog rock music, vote goes to RUSH. 40 years! Wow

-------------
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 25 2013 at 02:34
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Second Life Syndrome


Originally posted by Stool Man

I think you'll find that Rush have not sounded the same forever.
As for the fans still faithfully buying the music, that's mostly new fans buying the new music. For example, most early Pink Floyd fans who bought The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn in 1967 would have gone off the new sound of the later Pink Floyd heard on, say, Meddle. The new fans who bought that album when it was released would later mostly be replaced by another generation of new fans who bought The Wall. Later on again, The Division Bell was largely bought by another new generation of fans, many of whom thought that the band's first album was The Dark Side Of The Moon. I exaggerate, of course, but the point is that over a long period of time the people buying a band's albums are different people. There are loads of other examples of a band's sound changing over time

Good point.  


Good bands like RUSH don't have to sound exactly the same as they did in the past. For example, geddy's voice is not as good as it was 15 years live. Neil Peart is not as fast as he was, but they still make quality music and they still sound great. My longevity, in prog rock music, vote goes to RUSH. 40 years! Wow

me tooThumbs Up


Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: May 25 2013 at 08:20
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Second Life Syndrome


Originally posted by Stool Man

I think you'll find that Rush have not sounded the same forever.
As for the fans still faithfully buying the music, that's mostly new fans buying the new music. For example, most early Pink Floyd fans who bought The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn in 1967 would have gone off the new sound of the later Pink Floyd heard on, say, Meddle. The new fans who bought that album when it was released would later mostly be replaced by another generation of new fans who bought The Wall. Later on again, The Division Bell was largely bought by another new generation of fans, many of whom thought that the band's first album was The Dark Side Of The Moon. I exaggerate, of course, but the point is that over a long period of time the people buying a band's albums are different people. There are loads of other examples of a band's sound changing over time

Good point.  


Good bands like RUSH don't have to sound exactly the same as they did in the past. For example, geddy's voice is not as good as it was 15 years live. Neil Peart is not as fast as he was, but they still make quality music and they still sound great. My longevity, in prog rock music, vote goes to RUSH. 40 years! Wow


I think they formed in 1968, so that puts them at 45 years. I bet they can reach 50. Smile


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 25 2013 at 11:19

Hi,

 
Djam Karet. 25 years ... and still going and their latest "The Trip" is as good as ever, and then some.
 
And they keep on representing "progressive music" a lot better than many bands mentioned here!


-------------
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 25 2013 at 11:25
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Neo-Romantic

 

Originally posted by bonestorm

I think the age of the band is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is whether or not they're putting out good music.


This. A thousand times this. Clap



Yeah. Like DreamTheater. Those guys will probably last till their 60 and still put out great music. :)

It has to be said that there are plenty of people who consider DT well passed their best and wished they had stopped a long time ago rather than put out mediocre album after mediocre album. Sometimes longevity isn't a good thing.


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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 25 2013 at 11:27
Maybe someone here will start a "20th album" poll sometime.

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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 25 2013 at 11:57
Originally posted by sleeper


Yeah. Like DreamTheater. Those guys will probably last till their 60 and still put out great music. :)  
...
It has to be said that there are plenty of people who consider DT well passed their best and wished they had stopped a long time ago rather than put out mediocre album after mediocre album. Sometimes longevity isn't a good thing.
 
Agreed.
 
I do not think that DT is over. I do think that they need to "re-think" their music and their work ... and that they could use getting away from the "metal" thing, and create some really strong music. But it is really hard to see this happening, when you see one solo project and it is the worst metal out there in 3 minute songs, or just a guitar, doing the same thing it has been doing in other projects and experiments.
 
Makes you wonder who the visionary in that band really was ... but there is always hope that something new will come out of this, because it will look rather sad and weak at 60 ... unless the instruments are lip-sync'd ... you know what I mean! Somehow, hearing/watching Iggy doing the same thing he did 40 years ago, just is not as attractive or interesting ... and looks rather stupid!


-------------
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Floyd Steely
Date Posted: May 25 2013 at 14:11
Originally posted by moshkito

Djam Karet. 25 years ... and still going and their latest "The Trip" is as good as ever, and then some.

 
And they keep on representing "progressive music" a lot better than many bands mentioned here!


I'm always amazed Djam Karet garner so few ratings and mentions on this site. While prog was in its late-80s hibernation, those guys flew their prog flag high and made a name for themselves in true DIY fashion. Where's the love?

And I agree with your suggestion. They seem to be in this game for life.


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 00:29
Originally posted by sleeper


Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Neo-Romantic

 

Originally posted by bonestorm

I think the age of the band is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is whether or not they're putting out good music.


This. A thousand times this. Clap



Yeah. Like DreamTheater. Those guys will probably last till their 60 and still put out great music. :)
It has to be said that there are plenty of people who consider DT well passed their best and wished they had stopped a long time ago rather than put out mediocre album after mediocre album. Sometimes longevity isn't a good thing.


Well those people would get a piece of my mind. cause
In my mind, there is nothing mediocre about Dream Theater, especially the musical output of their last album. They are definitely on to something. I can't wait to see what comes next late this year. :)

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Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 04:38
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by sleeper


Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Neo-Romantic

 

Originally posted by bonestorm

I think the age of the band is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is whether or not they're putting out good music.


This. A thousand times this. Clap



Yeah. Like DreamTheater. Those guys will probably last till their 60 and still put out great music. :)
It has to be said that there are plenty of people who consider DT well passed their best and wished they had stopped a long time ago rather than put out mediocre album after mediocre album. Sometimes longevity isn't a good thing.


Well those people would get a piece of my mind. cause
In my mind, there is nothing mediocre about Dream Theater, especially the musical output of their last album. They are definitely on to something. I can't wait to see what comes next late this year. :)


I think I gave the last album 1 and 1/2 listens before giving up. I'm with moshkito (Shocked) if they want to garner wider ranging respect to go with their longevity they'll need to mix things up somewhat. Sadly I can't see it happening.


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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 10:10
Originally posted by Floyd Steely

Originally posted by moshkito

Djam Karet. 25 years ... and still going and their latest "The Trip" is as good as ever, and then some.

 
And they keep on representing "progressive music" a lot better than many bands mentioned here!


I'm always amazed Djam Karet garner so few ratings and mentions on this site. While prog was in its late-80s hibernation, those guys flew their prog flag high and made a name for themselves in true DIY fashion. Where's the love?

And I agree with your suggestion. They seem to be in this game for life.
 
The issue, from the way I see it, is that too many of the fans here are simply top ten induced and crammed and influenced ... and when you can not look past the fingers in your hand onto the horizon, you are not going to find a whole lot ... and if you do, it's just a one shot wonder ... that the person likes!
 
That's not to say that we do not have intelligent people here, we obviously do, but the attention span for most, are almost always "hit" or "radio" defined, not "progressive music" defined, which tells you, once again ... that the ear is not as delicately and politely appreciative of the whole thing as those folks think they do ... !  Go listen to some of the progressive music rock stations ... 3 to 4 minute format ... with a token something every 2 or 3 hours ... but the same sounding thing otherwise!
 
You have to let go of the ideas, and the opinions ... in order to hear something different ... but you see it here all the time ... people asking for suggestions and ideas ... instead of having their own feel for wanting to check something out on their own.
 
Sometimes, it makes me feel that many folks just don't know, or have an opinion unless someone else does, so you have someone to agree with ... and mannnnn, that was soooooooo anti-progressive 40 years ago! ... you have no idea! All they have to do is listen to KC's first ... or maybe even read Childhood's End!


-------------
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 10:23
Originally posted by sleeper


I think I gave the last album 1 and 1/2 listens before giving up. I'm with moshkito (Shocked) if they want to garner wider ranging respect to go with their longevity they'll need to mix things up somewhat. Sadly I can't see it happening.
 
The one thing that scares me silly, is how radio and hit oriented we are and sometimes we do not see the green grass on the other side, any better than we do the green grass under our own feet!
 
If the guitar player was a violin, he would be thought of as a master ... but because he is playing an electric guitar ... Dream Theater is a hack band for many folks ... and I find that unfair to the musicianship involved. Now if you tell me that the guitar player has no idea what I'm saying, I'm ok with it (I doubt that, btw!!!), but there are many virtuosi out there that don't give a damn about an electric guitar ... and they are not better than he is!
 
I learned this, btw ... 40 years ago when I saw Ian Anderson could make Jean Pierre Rampal look and sound like the buffoon that he was ... and on the next day, I got to see Andres Segovia make the next 99 guitarists (including the God!) look like idiots ... a string broke, and he still continued playing his piece for another 12 minutes before he finished ... when he did ... he politely asked ... did that sound alright to you? He got a standing ovation!
 
In rock music, we take the ability for granted way too much ... because of an effect, or loudness, or metal, or some other BS, we do not see another picture that has to do with "music", and not with song, or hit! And until we separate the two, I'm not sure that "progressive" will come alive like it needs to ... but a lot of "hit" bands, in "prog" will fall by wayside because of it, and the work, simply, is not developed, or deep enough to be worthy of consideration!
 
It's not really "elittist" like some folks love to discuss around here to defend their favorites that others might not like as much ... but it is a valuation based on music and its definition ... and ... sadly ... the vocals are NOT an instrument ... because around here, lyrics either stink, or they are more important than the music!  What's the point in singing, then? Just to get things off your chest? ... should tell you that there is not enough appreciation for "music" all around!


-------------
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 10:24
Originally posted by sleeper


Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by sleeper


Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Neo-Romantic

 

Originally posted by bonestorm

I think the age of the band is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is whether or not they're putting out good music.


This. A thousand times this. Clap



Yeah. Like DreamTheater. Those guys will probably last till their 60 and still put out great music. :)
It has to be said that there are plenty of people who consider DT well passed their best and wished they had stopped a long time ago rather than put out mediocre album after mediocre album. Sometimes longevity isn't a good thing.


Well those people would get a piece of my mind. cause
In my mind, there is nothing mediocre about Dream Theater, especially the musical output of their last album. They are definitely on to something. I can't wait to see what comes next late this year. :)
I think I gave the last album 1 and 1/2 listens before giving up. I'm with moshkito (Shocked) if they want to garner wider ranging respect to go with their longevity they'll need to mix things up somewhat. Sadly I can't see it happening.


I think what we have here is a case of 'been there, done that' scenario. I really do see your point. Dream theater, to me, have really remained true to the progressive metal genre for countless number of years and have really explored along with diversifying the prog metal genre up to the teeth! I just felt their last album had some differences from their previous 2. I admit, systematic chaos and blacks clouds really don't stray away from each other. To me, those albums sound a lot a like. Like you, I was getting worried and I believe I gave black clouds a 3/5 because the difference just wasn't there. Moreover, a dramatic turn seemed to have far more versitillity to the overall sound of the album and james LaBrie sounded more melodic once again by stripping that metal crap out of his voice.

Anyway. My question to you would be how could dream theater really make an album sound totally different without straying away from from the prog metal genre itself???

-------------
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 10:43
Originally posted by progbethyname

...
Anyway. My question to you would be how could dream theater really make an album sound totally different without straying away from from the prog metal genre itself???
 
I think it has to start without "ideas" ... and a simple jam ... maybe even develop it into something bigger. Possibly give John and Jordan more space for composition. I am not sure that James LaBrie is the problem, though I tend to think that he is partly disconnected from the whole thing in one way or another, and you see that when the band plays and he goes behind the stage ... when you imagine that he could pick up an accoustic guitar and join in, or a tamborine, or something else to augment the music even more.
 
I don't really want to superimpose my own ideas, but I'm thinking that it needs to be much more than just lyrics for a song, and a song for some lyrics ... and until that is resolved, I am not sure that any band can get off the same stuff that they continue doing ... that still sells.
 
I think, you have to go inside ... or simply just let it all out ... and that is the one thing that is missing for me in this band.


-------------
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Second Life Syndrome
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 12:50
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by sleeper


I think I gave the last album 1 and 1/2 listens before giving up. I'm with moshkito (Shocked) if they want to garner wider ranging respect to go with their longevity they'll need to mix things up somewhat. Sadly I can't see it happening.
 
The one thing that scares me silly, is how radio and hit oriented we are and sometimes we do not see the green grass on the other side, any better than we do the green grass under our own feet!
 
If the guitar player was a violin, he would be thought of as a master ... but because he is playing an electric guitar ... Dream Theater is a hack band for many folks ... and I find that unfair to the musicianship involved. Now if you tell me that the guitar player has no idea what I'm saying, I'm ok with it (I doubt that, btw!!!), but there are many virtuosi out there that don't give a damn about an electric guitar ... and they are not better than he is!
 
I learned this, btw ... 40 years ago when I saw Ian Anderson could make Jean Pierre Rampal look and sound like the buffoon that he was ... and on the next day, I got to see Andres Segovia make the next 99 guitarists (including the God!) look like idiots ... a string broke, and he still continued playing his piece for another 12 minutes before he finished ... when he did ... he politely asked ... did that sound alright to you? He got a standing ovation!
 
In rock music, we take the ability for granted way too much ... because of an effect, or loudness, or metal, or some other BS, we do not see another picture that has to do with "music", and not with song, or hit! And until we separate the two, I'm not sure that "progressive" will come alive like it needs to ... but a lot of "hit" bands, in "prog" will fall by wayside because of it, and the work, simply, is not developed, or deep enough to be worthy of consideration!
 
It's not really "elittist" like some folks love to discuss around here to defend their favorites that others might not like as much ... but it is a valuation based on music and its definition ... and ... sadly ... the vocals are NOT an instrument ... because around here, lyrics either stink, or they are more important than the music!  What's the point in singing, then? Just to get things off your chest? ... should tell you that there is not enough appreciation for "music" all around!

I haven't listened to a radio show in years.  I think you might be assuming too much.  I don't give a rat's gonad about hits or mainstream crap.  Hence, why I dislike DT and Rush.


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 13:17
Originally posted by progbethyname


I think what we have here is a case of 'been there, done that' scenario. I really do see your point. Dream theater, to me, have really remained true to the progressive metal genre for countless number of years and have really explored along with diversifying the prog metal genre up to the teeth! I just felt their last album had some differences from their previous 2. I admit, systematic chaos and blacks clouds really don't stray away from each other. To me, those albums sound a lot a like. Like you, I was getting worried and I believe I gave black clouds a 3/5 because the difference just wasn't there. Moreover, a dramatic turn seemed to have far more versitillity to the overall sound of the album and james LaBrie sounded more melodic once again by stripping that metal crap out of his voice.

Anyway. My question to you would be how could dream theater really make an album sound totally different without straying away from from the prog metal genre itself???


I felt An Undramatic Continuation of Events (Wink) was more an attempt to return to what they were doing on Images and Words but without the quality of song writing (more formulaic now) or sense of adventure that came from pushing forward a formative genre. Progressive Metal has got much more to it than just DT and it's excessive number of clones (and I'm not counting the Exp/Post and X/Tech subs here as well) with the likes of Riverside, To-Mera, Sieges Even and Psychotic Waltz all sounding completely different from each other and showing that there's plenty of space to move and do knew things for those willing to try, of which I admit there are far too few.


-------------
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 27 2013 at 00:22
Originally posted by moshkito


Originally posted by progbethyname

...
Anyway. My question to you would be how could dream theater really make an album sound totally different without straying away from from the prog metal genre itself???

 
I think it has to start without "ideas" ... and a simple jam ... maybe even develop it into something bigger. Possibly give John and Jordan more space for composition. I am not sure that James LaBrie is the problem, though I tend to think that he is partly disconnected from the whole thing in one way or another, and you see that when the band plays and he goes behind the stage ... when you imagine that he could pick up an accoustic guitar and join in, or a tamborine, or something else to augment the music even more.
 
I don't really want to superimpose my own ideas, but I'm thinking that it needs to be much more than just lyrics for a song, and a song for some lyrics ... and until that is resolved, I am not sure that any band can get off the same stuff that they continue doing ... that still sells.
 
I think, you have to go inside ... or simply just let it all out ... and that is the one thing that is missing for me in this band.


James LaBrie playing an acoustic guitar or a tambourine?? Agh Pedro, your killing me!


Actually, now that I think of it, james does the tambourine live in budokan.

-------------
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 27 2013 at 00:27
Originally posted by sleeper


Originally posted by progbethyname

I think what we have here is a case of 'been there, done that' scenario. I really do see your point. Dream theater, to me, have really remained true to the progressive metal genre for countless number of years and have really explored along with diversifying the prog metal genre up to the teeth! I just felt their last album had some differences from their previous 2. I admit, systematic chaos and blacks clouds really don't stray away from each other. To me, those albums sound a lot a like. Like you, I was getting worried and I believe I gave black clouds a 3/5 because the difference just wasn't there. Moreover, a dramatic turn seemed to have far more versitillity to the overall sound of the album and james LaBrie sounded more melodic once again by stripping that metal crap out of his voice.

Anyway. My question to you would be how could dream theater really make an album sound totally different without straying away from from the prog metal genre itself???
I felt An Undramatic Continuation of Events (Wink) was more an attempt to return to what they were doing on Images and Words but without the quality of song writing (more formulaic now) or sense of adventure that came from pushing forward a formative genre. Progressive Metal has got much more to it than just DT and it's excessive number of clones (and I'm not counting the Exp/Post and X/Tech subs here as well) with the likes of Riverside, To-Mera, Sieges Even and Psychotic Waltz all sounding completely different from each other and showing that there's plenty of space to move and do knew things for those willing to try, of which I admit there are far too few.


Ummmm...I see. Well, I thought a dramatic turn's sound was more closely related to the AWAKE album, but anyway you're absolutely right about prog metal being more than just a DT typical sound. Not ever gonna fight ya on that one, but I respect your opinion and let's hope that dt's next album can put a On your face.

-------------
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'


Posted By: Morsenator
Date Posted: May 27 2013 at 01:40
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by moshkito


Originally posted by progbethyname

...
Anyway. My question to you would be how could dream theater really make an album sound totally different without straying away from from the prog metal genre itself???

 
I think it has to start without "ideas" ... and a simple jam ... maybe even develop it into something bigger. Possibly give John and Jordan more space for composition. I am not sure that James LaBrie is the problem, though I tend to think that he is partly disconnected from the whole thing in one way or another, and you see that when the band plays and he goes behind the stage ... when you imagine that he could pick up an accoustic guitar and join in, or a tamborine, or something else to augment the music even more.
 
I don't really want to superimpose my own ideas, but I'm thinking that it needs to be much more than just lyrics for a song, and a song for some lyrics ... and until that is resolved, I am not sure that any band can get off the same stuff that they continue doing ... that still sells.
 
I think, you have to go inside ... or simply just let it all out ... and that is the one thing that is missing for me in this band.


James LaBrie playing an acoustic guitar or a tambourine?? Agh Pedro, your killing me!


Actually, now that I think of it, james does the tambourine live in budokan.

He has actually played keyboards live at least on Octavarium (I think it was the Score dvd). He had this tiny two octave thing with the note names written on stickers on each note LOL I wonder why they didn't show too much of it on the actual dvd...


-------------
You love the music, the music loves you!
http://moonsofjupiter.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://moonsofjupiter.bandcamp.com/



Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: May 27 2013 at 08:04
I want to see James Labrie play mellotron and flute on the next album Big smile

-------------
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.


Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: May 28 2013 at 15:07
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes

I want to see James Labrie play mellotron and flute on the next album Big smile


Or the harp! Tongue

But how much could Dream Theater change their sound without pissing off thousands of fans? Unfortunately, they have a much bigger following in the world of heavy metal than they do in the world of prog. However, based on their last album, the next one very well could be a much different mold than Systematic Chaos or BC&SL.


Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: May 28 2013 at 15:16
Originally posted by Metalmarsh89

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes

I want to see James Labrie play mellotron and flute on the next album Big smile


Or the harp! Tongue

But how much could Dream Theater change their sound without pissing off thousands of fans? Unfortunately, they have a much bigger following in the world of heavy metal than they do in the world of prog. However, based on their last album, the next one very well could be a much different mold than Systematic Chaos or BC&SL.


I think I mentioned this in another thread, but when I think about DT branching out, I think of Six Degrees.  So many influences, so many different sounds went into that album; stuff like "The Great Debate," "Misunderstood," and "Disappear" was so idiosyncratic and interesting.  I think they're in a good place compositionally right now, coming off what was, in my opinion, the best-composed album they've ever made.  If there was any fault with Six Degrees, it was that some parts (like the overture to side 2) were emotionally profound but lacked the compositional coherence and maturity that could have made them perfect.  If they're willing to expand their sound a bit - which I hope they are - I think they can come up with something even better than Six Degrees, something that could please both the metal and prog fans.


-------------
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.


Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: May 28 2013 at 15:40
Mark E Smith.  Big smile  I only mention him as I am reading his autobiog at the moment and at the beginning of his book he says that with the Fall he soon realised that what he wanted was Longeivity not (like the Pistols etc) one album and that's it.  So he set out to produce music that would last and I guess a career that would last.  It worked still going started in 1978 so thats..... uh...... lots of years.   One or two minor changes in the line up as they went along though. 
 
I know they're not on this site..  But I think they should be!!!  
 
Its a good book too


-------------
Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 28 2013 at 17:02
I love The Fall

-------------
rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: dsk
Date Posted: May 29 2013 at 11:49
Originally posted by Stool Man

I love The Fall

They have been highly recommended to me a couple of times now any tipps on what to start with? The Fall has been on my "Prog I'll have to check out"-list forever, only I kind of never really got to it...


Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: May 29 2013 at 12:30
The Fall would not really fall (no pun intended) into any description of 'prog' common around these parts.  They are usually bracketed in 'post punk' although some call them punk because they formed very early on in 1976.  Anyhoo, my favourites are Hex Enduction Hour and Live at the Witch Trials.  You could also try This Nation's Saving Grace which a lot of people rate very highly. 
 
Good Luck
 


-------------
Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: May 29 2013 at 16:56
did anyone mention Magma ...


Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: May 29 2013 at 18:00
List of bands I hope aren't quitting anytime soon:
Opeth 
Mastodon
Gojira
Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson
Snarky Puppy
Between the Buried and Me
Animals as Leaders (and Tosin Abasi and Javier Reyes side projects and collaborations)
Myrath
Haken
Beardfish
Anglagard
Hoping for a few more Rush albums.



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