Roger Dean to sue James Cameron over Avatar
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Topic: Roger Dean to sue James Cameron over Avatar
Posted By: marktheshark
Subject: Roger Dean to sue James Cameron over Avatar
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 17:46
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Well, it looks like Dean is going to go through with this. I've sort of wondered about this, the first thing I noticed in the trailors was the floating islands. Whether Dean's case has any weight is tough to tell. However scifi author Harlan Ellison successfully sued Cameron over Terminator's similarities to his Outer Limits episodes from the 60s. http://ultimateclassicrock.com/asia-and-yes-artist-sues-james-cameron/" rel="nofollow - LINK |
Replies:
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 17:57
| Lin Carter had floating islands long before Dean. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 18:09
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^ please share Lin Carter's " art work" ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 18:25
Anything that puts that arrogant schmuck Cameron in his place even just a little bit is A-OK with me!  Enjoy that, `King of the world'.  |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 18:44
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I don't think Sir Geekalot cares about plagiarism anymore, he probably figures "So sue me". But I hope Mr. Dean makes back some of the lost money his hard work and imagination paid out to Cameron and his little beard. |
Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 18:46
Yes, I'm familiar with all that, but if you look at Dean's work as compared to Avatar, the similarities are beyond striking. And I don't just mean the islands but the landscapes, the dragons and arc formations of the rocks. Even Cameron admitted when asked if Dean had any influence on Avatar, he said "Maybe during my stoner days in the 70s." Or something to that effect. |
Knobby wrote:Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 22:00
| guys i invented fantasy/sci-fi |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 22:04
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James Cameron's movies entertain me much more than Roger Dean's covers. ------------- 
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Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 22:06
Also who cares. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 22:08
Maybe that's because Cameron's a thief. |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 22:20
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 22:24
Wait, me or Cameron?! 
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 22:54
This one....?
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: June 28 2013 at 23:19
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Guess Rodger needs some money after becoming completely irrelevant. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 03:52
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If Roger wins can no on be inspired by art again? This is such nonsense. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 05:24
A good point, the same could be said for musicians influencing other musicianship. From day one though Avatar was pure plagiarism in terms of landscape. I hope RD gets due reward. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 06:17
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I WILL PAY ROGER'S LAWYER $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ------------- |
Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 08:25
Chuck Berry went after the Beach Boys for Surfin USA and the Beatles for Come Together. Even a suit could be brought on Cameron by Michael Blake who wrote Dances with Wolves, the stories are both pretty similar. But that may be stretching it. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 08:55
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Ridiculous. Did Dean 'patent' the concept of floating islands? Sounds like an ego attack to me, or maybe Dean just needs some cash.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 09:51
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He should sue Cameron for making such a terrible movie, not for using an art style vaguely similar to his. This is why I have a problem with IP law in general. The idea that you can "own" the concept of floating islands is ridiculous and bad for innovation. ------------- 
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 10:08
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James Cameron is the Andrew Lloyd Webber of the movie industrie... -------------  
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Posted By: mrtortoise
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 10:18
Agreed. Artists used to feel complimented when their ideas or themes were used in other works. Classical composers would pay homage to others by quoting their work. Cameron has elaborated upon an idea that was already in use, he has done no wrong. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 10:33
-------------
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 11:31
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Are Kevin Costner, the guys who did Fern Gully, and the Blue Man Group suing Cameron, as well, because I think they also have a case? Even at that, he's still not as big a thief as that f**king tarantino -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 12:43
I know what you mean about Tarantino, part of me sees his films as genre rip offs, but at the same time, I can view them as homages as well. In that sense, I can forgive him because they are entertaining in his qwerky way. Kind of like when Jackson remade King Kong, it came across more as a homage to the original than anything else. For Cameron's lawyer to claim him as original is ridiculous. What was Titanic but simply Romeo and Juliet on the high seas. The Abyss? 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea with extraterrestrials. And True Lies was more or less a James Bond parody. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 14:16
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I hope Roger Dean loses badly, what an idiotic case.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 17:00
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How does one lose a lawsuit badly? I suspect most artists here are sympathetic to the plight of being one, and as an artist himself, Cameron should of course know this. |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 19:14
| Huh... Isn't it an old story? I thought this whole "I'm gonne sue you" dated back from 2012, no? |
Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 21:18
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My first remembrance of floating islands or I should say a City in the Clouds was from an old 1969 Star Trek episode called "The Cloud Miners". Perhaps the writer of that episode should sue them all.... ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 21:35
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^ Writers on ST and every other sci-fi medium took from all number of sources, usually from authors or pulp writers in the field (Heinlein,Verne,etc.). Ellison probably took from as many writers as he has accused of poaching from him. A Cloud City is probably as old as scripture, but it was Dean's vision of that myth that was used. ST:TOS's 'The Cloud Minders' is nothing like Dean's work and much closer to George Lucas' Bespin in Star Wars Episode 5. |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 22:06
not really k ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 00:21
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Some knee jerk reactions here. It would be hasty to derive inferences about what Dean is suing for without accessing complete details of the lawsuit. The question is not whether any and all floating islands are necessarily copied from Roger Dean (such a lawsuit would not even be admitted for hearing, imo) but whether the ones used in Avatar resemble RD's artwork. There are some similarities in the colours and shapes used; a court of law will decide whether these similarities constitute a copyright infringement. The paperwork apparently also mentions stone arches and markings and appendages on flying creatures. We don't know what else it talks about and, therefore, what all Dean has alleged Cameron of borrowing from his artwork. By the way, .."Cameron's lawyer says the filmmaker doesn't need to steal Dean's concepts, since he's the "most original and creative person in the motion picture business today". Yeah, because naming an island full of enormous natural resources Pandora is the most original idea ever to date. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 14:18
And let's not forget that brilliant name he thought up for his McGuffin: "Unobtainium." -------------
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 16:48
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I can't help thinking this is about money or ego. He's suing for 50 million....that's right 50 million.
Dean is 70 and probably well off financially.
To sue for that kind of money because someone may or may not have been influenced by your old artwork seems over the top to me.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Jorvik
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 12:11
Just spotted news that http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/01/brit_artist_sues_iavatari_for_50m/20th%20Century%20Fox%20over%20the%20film%20Avatar" rel="nofollow - Roger Dean is suing James Cameron & 20th Century Fox over the film Avatar :
------------- I ljuset från min lykta ser jag skuggan utav sorg drömmar som har slocknat ifrån ett liv som haft sin tid |
Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 12:25
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It was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw that movie. Surprised Dean hasn't reacted until now. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 12:32
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A little late Roger! It probably would've been a more successful suit if it had been filed when Avatar was released. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 14:31
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You want to see how much money the movie makes before you sue.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 04:00
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Just have Squire kick Cameron out of the band. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Surrealist
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 00:12
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My wife and I went to see Avatar like most people did.. and we were excited to see that Roger Dean had finally been put on the big screen. When we watched the credits after the movie, we were both certain that Roger Dean would have been the art director or credited in many ways with the creative undertaking. However, we were completely shocked that he was not even mentioned in the closing credits. About 6 months later I spoke with Roger in San Francisco about this at his exhibit on Bush Street and he did seem a bit taken back by the film. No mention of suing or anything at the time.. just more a roll of the eyes. We were quite happy to hear that he has filed suit for 50 million against Cameron. I think he should have asked for more... this is his movie. Floating islands, the red dragons, just the way everything looked, I am sure Cameron told his artists to roll a few joints on classic Yes album covers like he did back in the 70's. Looking at some of the message boards.. I was shocked to see how many people thought Roger is being completely out of line. Any thoughts? |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 01:17
Surrealist, you might want to avoid the thread that this topic was already covered in, a few weeks back. I'm sure it can still be found if you wanted to search it out, but there were more than a few people on there that didn't support Dean!  To be honest, I was simply glad to see someone trying to stick it to that arrogant hack Cameron!
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 13 2013 at 14:55
I've said all alone, from the first day ... that James Cameron pleasurized Roger Dean, and never once reached out to him to help create the movie ... and for that I lost all respect for James, and refuse to see the film ... I mean look at "Roger Dean's Views" ... and even the characters were taken from the book, almost.
Kind of a bummer, a film I really like was made by Cameron (The Abbyss) and now I can't help think that he is just a rip off artist anyway ... and a b*****d when it comes to ripping people off! He will probably get ripped senseless by the lawyers and judge if he continues his greed posture! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 13 2013 at 15:11
Agreed.
However, Tarantino, did make a small deal with Godard, Truffaut and at least Akira Kurosawa ... and it was to release their films, and I believe Quentin's company is still releasing the videos of many of their films. The problem is ... is, no one here has ever seen "Weekend", or "2 or 3 things I know about her", or many other films that had the camera movements and the jokes that were ripped off verbatim ... Pulp Crap was a card board copy of the real thing! It just has a budget, something that Godard and Truffaut never had!
What I don't know is how much they are getting paid ... Kurosawa's family is not doing great, but they don't seem to be lacking. Truffaut's family I don't know. Godard made an off remark in one festival, that the day he gets a dollar he will be dead!
Cameron represents a lot of what is part of the greed nation that came out of the mid 70's ... rip off as many people with advertising as possible and go to the bank and then smile to everyone that greed is good! And his movies are not that great, although I like "The Abyss". ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |