Why Should we care about New Prog mania ?
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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94378
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Topic: Why Should we care about New Prog mania ?
Posted By: trackstoni
Subject: Why Should we care about New Prog mania ?
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 07:36
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between 1968 & 1982 , we've had the best Masterpieces of Progressive Rock from Bands living in every spot of the Earth . i really believe today in 2013 , that we've had it all from those people , my full satisfaction was always guarantied when i listen to those Pioneers & their Excellent releases , Close to the Edge for instance , Lark's Tongues or TAAB .... etc ..... are still my favorites in 4 decades , sometimes better than that ! i really know & appreciate what , some New Prog bands are trying to do , but i always find weakness in their productivity , they have much better equipment & tool then before , some bands knows how to take advantage from that , but the majority is not !! Anyway , some new release from 1999 till now are much appreciated , it includes some Masterpieces , but not even on the level of one Harvest of the 70's , so , why should i turn my back on what i call Genius to what i barely call Amateur ! i've never though for a while that things can turn this way !! there are excellent bands nowadays trying very hard to keep the concept of Progressive living , but seems cannot be compared with what was fulfilled yesterday ! Yesterday , i used to Appreciate moments and feel the Greatness of Music , but , today i'm only trying hard to Appreciate the Power of Music again ! it seems it can't be done !!!!! ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Replies:
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 08:33
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You shouldn't turn your back on what you define as genius. You might have to paste a phony smile on you're face, agree to disagree , just to avoid conflict of interest with unfortunately those who do not see what we see or simply don't get it. That's what I do at gigs you know? I stand there and smile like a moron and say..."Yes , you're right!" Everything is just fine. Renaissance plays Japan, they exit the hotel in the morning, enter the gift shop and there before them on a rack is last nights performance, sealed, packaged, and for sale. Why ask Annie Haslam if it's okay? Who is she anyway? Does anybody care? No.
You have mentioned the difference between 1968-1982 compared to now. I agree with that..BUT! have you taken notice of threads on prog sites that do not make sense and are ignorant to the artist? I find thaT revolting as well. A thread posted on another prog site which states that any founding/key member of a Prog band can easily be replaced. Really? Do you realize how rare it is for something like that to occur? Do you realize how stupied it is to say that it is a hundred percent true? What are these people talking about? A Philadelphia radio station put together an evening of Prog a few months ago. Chuck Van Zyl who has released some interesting electronic compositions ...gets on the air and says....."Here is something you don't hear anymore and it's Prog"....He then plays "Nantucket Sleighride" by Mountain. Really? Are you riding on someone else's bus and not wanting to give up your precious seat ...and maybe that's why you are saying garbage like this? Nantucket Sleighride? really? What are you....6 years old? Prog is definitely not as Prog as it used to be.
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 09:23
^ Nostalgia ain't what it used to be  Interesting points in both posts certainly. I guess there are a few big factors which must affect the possibilities of hearing what might qualify as 'Prog' today e.g. the whole apparatus of disseminating music to the marketplace has changed now with internet downloads and artists selling/promoting their own product on line. You'd think that the foregoing would make more challenging and less commercially oriented music more viable but the evidence doesn't seem to support this (or is it just too many small fish slipping through the net?) Digital technology brings higher fidelity within anyone's reach (talented and untalented) and love it or loathe it, the A&R system deployed by record companies of the past, did perhaps filter some of the wheat from the chaff?There was clearly a large and (hence lucrative) audience in the 67-76 years who were receptive to risk taking and adventure in music but whether this demographic has been replaced by those with more conservative tastes is debatable. I'm sure that this type of 'generational' argument was in place for the years 57-67 also. We can't seriously expect that modern masterpieces should resemble those you consider unimpeachable from the past (that would be erm....regressive innit?) ------------- 
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TODDLER wrote:Posted By: zumacraig
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 09:37
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Many good points made above concerning issues I have a keen interest in. Great topic! I totally agree, 68-82 were golden years for basically all genres of music. An argument could be made for 65-83. Dylan, the Byrds and Beatles really hit their stride in 1965 and I always thought Ammonia Avenue was the last bit of well produced pop/prog. There have been outliers since then, but production values really went to sh*t by the mid 80s. At the same time, quality of song writing dwindled. This I think was do to the fact that the 70s zeitgeist imploded, creative sparks cooled and technology increased (to everyone's detriment). The research on creativity shows that the greats usually have a good ten years and then another uptick years after. So, in reality, these dudes were absolutely lucky and the stars aligned. Analog instruments, the second decade of rock, no cliches yet, cool clothes, good taste, nonexistent profit motive... As far a the new bands go, there's some good ones. I put up with modern production in order to hear something new. The old stuff gets tiring, although I always end up back there. I won't say the new prog bands' songwriting is as good as their elders. Some is, but they are in a position where there's nothing new under the sun. Also, they are slaves to technology and horrible production standard. The ability to make albums listenable is there, but bands are clueless. Add in crappy mixing and compressed mastering and it's a wonder anyone listens to new prog/metal. For example, why why why the gated drums?! What happened to that warm studio in the room sound? Some of my newer favorites are Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Dream Theater. However, all of these bands have healthy doses of cheese, questionable production and over-progging. Let's bring back sane production, seriousness in the music and intentional songwriting!
@Toddler, as far as ignorance of music, it's rampant in all circles, especially in rock. I'm a geek, so I know minute details, but if you call yourself a fan of a certain genre or band, at least know what you're talking about. My favorite example is the dude who goes to Crosby, Stills and Nash and expects to hear songs that are, unknown to him, Neil Young songs! In fact, I was talking to a medical doctor friend the other day about some band and he was stating absolutely wrong information as if it was undisputed fact. Astounding! Extend this phenomenon to other areas of society and it's quite clear how ignorant people are. We've been trained to NOT think critically and NOT understand ambiguity and nuance. It's sad and will probably be the cause of our demise. ------------- Stardust we are. -Roine Stolt |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 09:38
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To each their own. There are many classic albums from the 70's that I love, just as their are many modern albums that I love. Without a doubt there is something very different about 70's music than music being produced today, even in the prog sphere, but it's just that, different, and the quality of such will always be in the ear of the listener. You may have to go a fair bit further today to find the experimental bands but they're definitely there and to me every bit as good as those of the 70's (well, those I like, but not everything worked in the 70's either so it evens out). ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 09:45
Again, regarding production it's entirely subjective. I'm not denying that there's a lot of lazy production going on today but there's a lot of really good work out there too. And not everything from the 70's was quality, most of those albums were recorded on the cheap as record labels wouldn't shell out for them, particularly if a bands first album failed to sell 600 000 000 000 000 000 000 records, and as such I've come across more than a few albums with lifeless sounding rhythm sections or seriously questionable mixes. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 10:18
It's just a proof that artistic inspiration has a lot to do with historical conjuncture. As much as I love much modern Prog, I feel the same way, I don't hear anything as wonderfully inspired as the classics. Possibly it's our mistake, just expecting to hear that again. I guess that historical conjunctural inspiration can also be found in contemporary music (not modern Prog I mean, but actual contemporary music reflecting today's culture), it's just that I don't like it 
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 11:12
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You should try listening to good bands of today. I prefer modern music over "classics" though. Never cared much for CttE, TAAb is awful, Foxtrot is great but I barely listen to it. I'm just more entertained by modern masterpieces and the music scene in general and not these nostalgia-soaked albums. As to your statement about progressive music not reaching the standards, or fulfilling the concept, of the bands of yesterday.. I think Roger Daltrey made a statement that I agree with. He said that bands of his era had it easy because there wasn't much on the canvas of art, so the music that surrounded him were the first "colors" to grace the art canvas. He mentioned that bands nowadays have it more difficult to be more innovative in a sense because since then the canvas have so much paint all over it. Just because the "prog" scene has been around for a while doesn't mean that bands aren't being progressive - it's just in a much different way I suppose. Adding a keyboard solo isn't prog anymore. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 12:23
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Because if you don't care about the new stuff, how could it ever be as good as the old? Simple really.... Most of what constitutes our appreciation of anything relies solely on perception, and which associations you wish to paint the sucker in. There is literally tons of music being produced today - every flavour you wish to taste, you just gotta take chances sometimes and go outside your box mentality - and reach for something different. I don't agree with the 1968-1982 period (nor the 1967-76) of music as constituting the "ultimate" altar on which progressive music aficionados wilfully should bow their heads in eternal grace. I agree that it was a period of music that wrapped up a certain - let's just say style of music pretty well, and yes a lot of the attempts of bringing back that same sort of vibe very seldom supersedes the genuine deal - the real McCoy so to speak. BUT real progress in music - the new kids on the block of what was, at the time extremely progressive musically speaking, were to be found in the avantguarde n RIO territories - the post punk scene, as well as the resurgence of electronic music in the late 80s early 90s with the likes of The Orb, FSOL and Aphex Twin. This is again all part of my perspective on things, but I find it increasingly painful to see people, whom evidently appears to dig music that pushes boundaries and explores new sonic ground, to never look further than a specific sort of sound. I simply love music, and the idea of it, too much to do that for myself. There's that and the fact that the current prog scene actually is incredibly diverse and sprawling - again, you just gotta look outside the tried and tested formulas, or conversely try picking up the exact same thing as you always do, and then continue to separate it from where you think its blueprint came from - and just listen to the thing. Hard thing to do, but then again I don't believe any musician out there deserves to be met by some 45 years of sonic scrutiny.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 12:56
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 13:02
I get you, but I think we all have our personal perception of what we perceive as 'genuine artistic inspiration'. Within my limited knowledge of modern music, I see that musicians still strive to be creative, producing stuff which is genuinely new, doing their best, or simply producing more new music following the footsteps laid out by former musicians and bands which is also fine by me. That's not the point, it's just that, subjectively, people like me (and apparently the OP) find that all those efforts by more modern musicians, while entirely respectable and worthy of admiration, somehow lack the 'genuine inspiration' we find many classics had. Sure, it's a subjective issue, but one I find real nonetheless.
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 13:04
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Thanks Pierre. I like your hat today - suits your plumage perfectly  ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 13:06
Nod and smile folks... now read the track listing:
...now walk away.
------------- What? |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 13:11
Don't worry Gerard - I get you as well. Must be close to impossible trying to find that same sort of kick and nerve, if you've experienced first hand the prog scene evolve - or at least caught it's "dying breaths". Maybe it's over - I don't know. Maybe Prog, the classic sound of prog that is, maybe it ran its course? I'm not suggesting anything btw, I think music can continue to evolve - at least past some 10 years of initial magic - it just involves the audience being ready for it - the same way the old folks round here were when it first hit the airwaves oh so long ago now. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 13:29
The hard part of this is telling you ... that no one will ever compose/create any music better than Vivaldi, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Stravinsky ... etc, etc, etc ... and so on ... because they did it yesterday and you are happy now, and you don't see/hear anyone that is making a difference stand up ... TODAY!
Even from a wider view spanning years, you, surely, see the error in your statement, right?
Perhaps you have gotten stuck on a few albums, that were ... ARE ... very good, that we remember a lot better than most crap out there ... and I'm with you on that ... but for me to say, that TODAY no one is doing it ... is not right ... it means that I think that the musicians of yesterday were better than the musicians of today, and THAT IS NOT RIGHT, and a gross generalization.
The musicianship is ALWAYS there, regardless of the day, night, time or place!
The problem is ... do you hear it ... now! ... instead of then? Because you can't!
You can sit and hear some Djam Karet, Herd of Identity and many others listed here on PA ... that are simply magnificent, and they are not trying to create more copies of the "original" ... sort of like we all have to look like ... that one over there ... which means that the definition is wrong, and not about the music ... it's about one album, or person!
Just remember, that time never was that we weren't. But the ears weren't there! And you can do something about that! NOW! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 13:38
James Gang! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 13:55
I'm sure you had a point to make there,... but what was it..?
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 13:56
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Old ...new....in between.....it's all good if it's good prog to begin with. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 14:18
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This a million times over. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Never, NEVER, let a year dictate how much you like something. Sure, most of my favorite albums came from the 70s, but I'm not going to rule out the possibility that next year an album just might be released that topples the classic-era favorites in my book. It's all about keeping an open mind and enjoying the spirit and substance behind the music whenever it gets released. This is PROGRESSIVE music we're talking about here after all. The music of today is different, yes, but by no means has it stagnated. If it had, it would be nothing but a bunch of cover bands and ho-hum acts generating material derivative of the classic eras of Yes or King Crimson. That would not remotely interest me in the slightest, particularly when I'm liking bands like Discipline, Riverside, and Opeth so much more than I ever liked Yes. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 14:23
I'll leave that for you to work out - if you can't ... *shrug* ------------- What? |
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 14:24
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I'm sure you had a point to make there,... but what was it..? Mr . DEAN // ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 14:32
<< Well Dean , i'm not gonna break the Walls of Babylon now , by using a Trojan Horse !! i'll simply gonna ask , did you all , i mean Eldest , fifty or more , expect more productivity in the last four decades !? >> ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 14:35
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Anyway , the Floyds , the Crimsons , Yes , ELP , Jethro Tull , are still active !! why they haven't throw any Masterpiece after 1982 !?? ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 14:55
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I just think that in our younger years, we are more inclined to love music deeply (in general.......always there are exceptions). At least for me, growing up in the 70's and 80's, the music that resonated with most was the music of that time frame. I spent the 90's discovering 70's prog rock, so I kind of missed those years for new music (though I did like some Grunge and a lot of jam bands). When I was young we used to make fun of old folks going to Elvis shows, or Barry Manilow, or whatever over the hill artist, long past their prime, that older people were nostalgic about. Now, old proggers go to Yes concerts to hear 30 year old music performed by 60+ year old gentleman. What, exactly, is the difference? I don't see any, quite frankly. Now, this isn't to put anyone down. I'm not some special case, I still find the music of the 70's to be the "best" music to my ears that I've heard in my life (again, there are always exceptions). It has the most emotional meaning to me, the most resonance to me personally. Does that mean it was simply better than anything produced today? Most music listeners in the world would probably say that it doesn't mean that, and that it isn't better. Because they are young, and newer music has touched them and has meaning for their lives, meaning that we can't ever understand because we are not young right now. I love a good deal of modern prog, and when I'm being objective about it, I can honestly say that some of it is as good or better than anything put out in the 60's and 70's. What I can't say is that it has the same emotional impact as hearing ELP or Genesis for the first time when I was 20 years old and had loads of free time to devote to music and music listening. I will never be that 20 year old again, just like like the members of Genesis or ELP or Yes will never be the 20 year olds that were wildly creative and fresh and new and exciting. That, of course, will never happen again. But dwelling on that means you won't even notice when some other 20 year olds create something new and exciting that your kids will love. Because it's not the music that moved you so much when you were young. |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 15:25
Wise words, man 
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 17:44
| Toni you are drunk |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 18:57
Of course you won't break any walls using a Trojan Horse... because the trojan horse wasn't used to break any walls, but to infiltrate and conquer from within. Now, that has absolutley nothing to do with any conversation on this thread, anyway.
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Posted By: zumacraig
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 20:33
The common denominator is so low when it comes to prog production. Steven Wilson is an outlier, but even he insists on lots of reverb. It's ridiculous. If prog albums sounded like Wilco's A Ghost Is Born, we'd have a much different and aesthetic scene. Maybe even more popularity. Yes's music was difficult, but it was good and easy to listen to...hence their rise to arena fame. ------------- Stardust we are. -Roine Stolt |
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: July 08 2013 at 20:34
Yes Indeed ! if i was sober i wasn't able to Say those Words & Create that Idea , i'm still listening to Comedy of Errors / Fanfare , since four month on everyday basis , i love this album , cause i felt , one way or another , it was stolen from previous ideas , that was made long before , but , in a wise & pro ways !! i'm a real Porcupines , Opeth , Nemrud , Blackfield , Dreamtheater .... etc .... FAN , but i always refer to the Origin , and the Roots of Music , cause i believe , no matter what , that kind of Creativity is not available anymore , even with those pioneers that still living now !! it was only a matter of the right timing , the right places & the right people , that's why we've had it all in one decade // Cheers anyway , i'm still Drinking my Milk !! ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: sacred_mushroom
Date Posted: July 09 2013 at 07:18
Hi trackstoni, i totally agree with you! In my opinion it is not possible to repeat this great era of music (late 60s to early 70s). Zeitgeist has changed everything. I'm not listening to New-Prog music, it does not appeal to me in any way. But when I listen to old bands like Beggar's Opera, Gracious, Twenty Sixty Six And Then, Raw Material, Kin Ping Meh, Julian's Treatment, I Drive, Cressida, Skin Alley, Human Instinct, My Solid Ground, King Crimson, Pan, Froggie Beaver etc. i feel like I've gone to heaven and back, it's incredible!!! |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 09 2013 at 09:20
No, it's not. And just to prove my point about subjectivity, Yes suck and I find The Yes album and Close to the Edge have an overly flat production. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 09 2013 at 09:22
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Just goes to show how differently we hear these albums. The Yes Album is without a doubt my favourite Yes album bar none.
I happen to adore the warmth and slightly naive feel of the production. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: zumacraig
Date Posted: July 09 2013 at 09:44
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@Infandous, I agree, WISE WORDS. Great point about the emotional impact of hearing music for the first time. I've mentioned this before in the TFK thread, but it bears repeating in this conversation, As I get older, visceral reactions to music are waining. Nothing really blows me away, and if it does, it's fleeting. Case in point, the new Queens of the Stone Age album. First listen I was head banging. But, like good pop, it lost it's luster. These days, I prefer stuff that is listenable, but also rewarding and challenging. That's why I like Flower Kings. My only gripe, as I said before, is the production values that have plagued prog and metal since the mid 80s; the fake reversed live sound, compressing, gated drum. I've learned to live with it. Steven Wilson's stuff is dynamic, but still has a bit of 80s in it. The last Flower Kings album was pretty good and Neal Morse has more of a studio feel on his albums...although his stuff is so compressed. I think the 'new' prog bands should take a cue from some of the indie rock production values. Those dudes make horrible music, but at least have warm production. Also, Wobbler has excellent production. Please dry up the drums!! ------------- Stardust we are. -Roine Stolt |
Posted By: zumacraig
Date Posted: July 09 2013 at 09:48
I don't think that creativity is gone, but the bands you mentioned kind of over do it. Every idea doesn't have to be recorded. The best prog was always a group effort and used only each member's best stuff. This is how Close to the Edge was made as well as all the great Rush albums. Speaking of Rush, I think Moving Pictures would be a great baseline for production. Somehow they integrated the best of the 70s and what was to come in the 80s. Drama by Yes is another great example. Not slick, but not reversed to hell. Love that album with Squire's bass up front rather than way in the back. ------------- Stardust we are. -Roine Stolt |
Posted By: zumacraig
Date Posted: July 09 2013 at 09:56
Bands should release two versions of their albums; studio mix, reverb mix.  I think KC are a good example of what I've been trying to say on this thread. They can be annoying as hell to my ears, but they are listenable precisely because of the in studio, warm production. They still play the same music, but Thrak was a mess of mush. Crimson and reverb drenched hair band production do not mix.
------------- Stardust we are. -Roine Stolt |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 10 2013 at 00:56
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Why does it matter so much if it's old or new? Isn't it all about listening to music, per se? And what is that then that you are looking for in music? Just a particular sound that you once fell in love with and want to hear over and over, or a great experience? If it's the latter, it necessarily involves widening your prism of what can be a great experience. And perhaps learning to once again react intuitively to music rather than analysing and determining to your satisfaction what all is wrong with a new album so that you have successfully eliminated any chance you had of enjoying it. This is where we go wrong today: categorizing and tabulating music into so many compartments. Which is fine up to a point, but when you start complaining about the box it fits into (which is apparently not what you thought it was going to be), that's not so progressive at all. Just a simple example to illustrate my point: I tried in vain to introduce one friend of mine to prog. I once played Blood on the Rooftops on the speakers with the preface that Genesis have some beautiful acoustic stuff. After listening to Hackett's wonderful playing in those first two minutes, he quipped, "But this is Spanish." And that was that. Ok, it is probably my fault for being imprecise and not saying it would be nylon string. But is that distinction so important that the sound of beautiful nylon string guitar work instead of acoustic disorients a listener enough not to like it at all and never to try it again? Do you see the point here? This is Genesis I am talking about that and there is an alternative prism in which they are not quite so awesome as you or I might think they are. I am not saying all music is amazing...there's a lot of bad, boring or mediocre music around to be sure. And it behooves us to listen and learn what might be good about a piece of music rather than cling to our boxes, our tastes, etc. The artist never asked you for your opinion on his music. It is for you to reach out and find a level where that magical, emotional connection happens. It doesn't happen all the time, but that doesn't make it a futile search. |
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: July 10 2013 at 02:58
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Quote << I am not saying all music is amazing...there's a lot of bad, boring or mediocre music around to be sure. And it behooves us to listen and learn what might be good about a piece of music rather than cling to our boxes, our tastes, etc. The artist never asked you for your opinion on his music. It is for you to reach out and find a level where that magical, emotional connection happens. It doesn't happen all the time, but that doesn't make it a futile search. // Unquote >> Precisely //
------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 10 2013 at 03:33
| Well, but my point is that it applies to old and new albums like. Once you make up your mind that there's something wrong with new prog in general, you have closed your options. |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: July 10 2013 at 04:17
Maybe one day will come where a
group will present a concept so revolutionary that we'll have to invent a new name to define this genre of music. Then perhaps we will give up the word Prog (or neo or avant) for another one under the banner of which new artists will grow freely. Just a thought 
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 10 2013 at 04:32
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The only diffrence i find between now and then, is that it seems few bands today, dare spanning as widely in range, as Zappa Floyd Crims and others did back then.
Think its just harder to stay alive if you dont "box" yourself, nowadays.
But on an album level, i find as great albums made after 1982 as before. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 10 2013 at 05:25
Yeah, bands would much rather serve the box mentality of most listeners than fight it and get precious little by way of either remuneration or recognition in return, I guess. Again, if people could look beyond labels, a band like Radiohead are hardly trying to box themselves. Would say the same about Muse too, though they do work within a much narrower range of influences. Whether they are prog or not....does it really matter? |
Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: July 10 2013 at 10:43
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It's funny, I've said it before, but I think it's a wider scope of how the early proggers were educated. The newer bands grew up in the age of radically different educational styles. Even when I was going to school in NY in the 1970's teachers could still discipline their students. There was a Latin class in high school (there may still be some today, I'm not sure). People had a respect for classical European culture and education that went out of style, perhaps it was considered "patriarchal"? As we all know, prog rock is about following European musical traditions. I don't get much out of new prog but I get a lot out of new music. About a month ago there were about five new rock bands that were obviously from young intellectually capable people that I found interesting. I guess to me the great music of the 90's and beyond went outside of "prog circles" and into other bands that were obviously made up of intelligent people. My hats off to newer, post-90's prog rockers, I just don't get a whole lot out of their music. But I'm always listening to new music. ------------- -- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: July 10 2013 at 17:18
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"Between 1968 & 1982, we've had the best Masterpieces of Progressive Rock from Bands living in every spot of the Earth." Well...there are two problems here. First, perhaps by sheer coincidence, your choice of ending it in 1982 is ironic, since 1983 brought us the debut albums of three of the seminal (if I may use that word in this manner) neo-prog bands, including Marillion's "Script for a Jester's Tear" and "IQ's Tales from the Lush Attic." Of course, both bands went on to re-define the "new era" of prog, which basically BEGAN in 1983. Secondly, in the above regard, when you speak of "new prog mania," I thought you meant the even more RECENT resurgence of prog (particularly including prog metal and what is being called "djent"), which actually occurred fairly recently: i.e., if "seminal prog" went from ~1968 to ~1982, then "neo-prog" began in 1983 and lasted until ~ the early 2000s or so. Imho, we are now in what might be called the "third age" of prog. If we accept this, then, to answer your question, I would give a slightly qualified "yes" to whether we should "care about the new prog mania." For two reasons. First, I think it is ALWAYS a good thing when songwriters and musicians are willing to tackle prog - even if the results are less than "write-home-about." Second, the "third era" has, in fact, already produced some good (and arguably a handful of excellent) prog bands in various genres. So by all means, do not feel embarrassed about supporting the "third age" of prog, and sticking up for any new prog bands that you like (or love). To misquote Gordon Gekko, "Prog is good!" Peace. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 00:25
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I've mentioned in an earlier thread that my prog collection is about: 1960's : 10% 1970's : 40% 1980's : 25% 1990's : 15% 2000's : 8% 2010's : 2% Is that because there's no good music to be found in the "new prog mania?" I've invested some time checking out some modern prog bands that I hear good things about on PA, but to be honest, they don't really do much for me. Some sound promising at first listen but by the 2nd or 3rd time through I'm bored. I just don't hear the depth that I grew up with in the 70's prog scene. I try to stay open minded about current prog but I much prefer using my limited time and resources mining the 1st wave for hidden treasures and building up my collection of French prog. ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 05:54
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Sure, it's hard to find a lot of new band matching the quality level of our favorites from the 70's, but i can't see myself listening to the same old stuff forever. They are exception to the rule with bands, like IQ, Anglagard, Echolyn, Porcupine Tree that can make music close to the best bands of old times. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:45
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Id say that prog rock has never been better. Especially when talking about the newer avant groups. Estradasphere Kayo Dot Sleepytime Gorilla Museum Mr Bungle Yeti And I'm seriously just as happy with some of The Mars Volta's work as I am King Crimson. And what's even better is because of this website among others, I am able to know about the weird obscure 70's prog groups that are just as good and sometimes better than the classics. Yezda Urfa Touch Cervello Museo Rosenbach Also, now there is more frightening music coming out. I love this scary music. :D Now there are very few groups that are truly equal to the quality from the 70's but it seems that prog rock is a genre that is growing again. (Many people are getting fed up with modern radio rock and pop.) I think that there will be an enormous boom in the future. There will be a point in the time where we might see a group of bands better than the groups in the seventies. They might not be successful, but it could happen. I can't wait.
Nostalgia is silly. :-D ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 08:33
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^ Right, so Prog Rock has never been better yet very few groups are truly equal to the quality from the 70's So there were more bands in the 70's of a desired quality but this was actually a worse state of affairs than what we have now? Nostalgia is considerably less silly than your post  -------------
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Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 09:11
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It's hard to equal the quality of someone who has done something first. And when I think about those groups there are maybe 7 or 8 that stick out in my mind back then, and around 7 or 8 now. Meh. I'm sorry I'm retarded I think I'll shut up now. I'm gonna go feel like an idiot and hate myself woot ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 09:27
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^ You ain't retarded and I value your contributions to the site but I just thought you maybe hadn't thought through that post (that's all - I've posted a damn sight worse on many occasions)
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 09:32
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I once posted something about birds that nobody understood - not even myself. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 09:34
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^ you should have tweeted it ------------- What? |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 09:36
Man that's bad - even for you my friend, and still
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: zumacraig
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 11:20
The search has resulted in complete and utter mediocrity. ------------- Stardust we are. -Roine Stolt |
Posted By: zumacraig
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 11:27
I've made up my mind that most of modern production sucks, but I still listen to some modern prog. So, I think it's possible to live in ambiguity. I thin less is more would be a great place to start for a more revolutionary sound. PF's music was very simple, but they knew a good idea when they heard one and honed it until it was perfect. Now you got everyone and their mother knocking out double albums of junk every week. You have to focus to hit a bullseye, you can't just shoot and hope it hits the target. ------------- Stardust we are. -Roine Stolt |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 12:56
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Awwww lemming thanks. I needed that. I'm pretty emo. :) ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 20:00
If the implication is that modern prog is never minimalist in approach, that itself would suggest that there's a lot of it that you haven't heard. And last I checked modern bands with the exception of maybe TFK and DT take longer between albums than the older bands did in the 70s, but if you'd prefer that your biases are not corrected, sure. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 20:10
I presume that your notion of modern prog also includes everything from the 90s onwards. So if I take it that you consider Bela Fleck and the Flecktones utterly and completely mediocre (in contradistinction to Return to Forever), wow, your standards are amazing, man!!  |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 07:49
Although I sorta get yer gist here it should be remembered that we are guilty sometimes of having a nostalgia for something that never happened in the first place re the so called halcyon 70's golden age bah yakkity ditto etc Cut to the chase, there was a LOT of mediocre Prog during the 70's also e.g. Barclay James Harvest, latter day Greenslade, Atomic Rooster's soul/funk flirtation with Farlowe, latter day Argent, Moody Blues, Hawkwind, Kansas, Starcastle, Strawbs, Ekseption (the list goes on) I know I've probably cited some folks favourite bands so yes, it's very subjective but for me the foregoing just don't cut it when compared to the rarefied heights of Crimson, Yes, ELP, Genesis, Gentle Giant et al. It might be worthwhile to ask ourselves a pertinent question: What confers a value on anything? (Answer - scarcity, t'was ever thus) -------------
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Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 13:49
Bravo Plato !! for the first part of your book , definitely i disagree !! for the Second , it seems you haven't read my comments , i've said < i'm still listening to Comedy of Errors - Fanfare on daily basis !! > i like more than 30 bands active after 1982 . However , i really appreciate the third part , and .... i can tell you now , i will never feel embarrassed to enjoy & appreciate the Good Progressive at anytime ! Cheers my friend ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 13:56
1967-1976 
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Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 14:00
in this case , you must reconsider posting it again , perhaps you get the inspiration to understand it !!?? but it seems to be ugly for me !! cause it comes from an Ugly Person // Behave yourself while others are checking there friends opinion in some issues !  ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 14:39
| 1989 |
Posted By: Polania
Date Posted: October 20 2013 at 16:22
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Sometimes I think that people cared about their work more in the past. I don't know why, maybe they had more time and put all of their effort into one activity that they chose. Of course it doesn't apply exclusively to the music field. However, some great artists of our time may be criticezed and ridiculed today. Maybe their time hasn't come yet, maybe it won't ever come because noobody can connect to their art or to what they are trying to convey with it. Who knows, maybe after 5-15 years their art will be needed and desired. I think prog bands aren't called prog for no reason. They are too progressive for their own time, even for prog lovers, old and young included. They can play in some bars and only their friends or small amount of fans listen to them. It's just like with books. Many of the writers and poets, whose art is on everyone's shelves now, they weren't recognised by the people of their era, no agencies or newspapers read them. Who knows ? Perhaps future generations won't need the books which are eagerly read today, even those which are considered classical. Every generation reads or listens to what is important to them, and even every individual person of that generation chooses different books or bands which he himself finds valuable, enjoyable. But tendencies always exist. And only time will tell if the band deserves more listeners or not at all. I try to be vulnerable and listen to the bands that don't seem promising at first and them I'm totally in love with them. Even if they aren't well-known yet, I'll take a chance and follow this band, who know what they'll write in the future? Of course we can hear some repetitions here and there, many prog bands are influenced by each other and that's not a secret. Again, some book themes can also be repeated by the writers but the language is different and the young could relate better to the new ones. I think same applies to music, musicians can have fun with the same patterns, etc but they can bring their own style into it too. And when it's not so genuine and was made in short period of time, without care, only in order to get some money - then that's a disaster. Even some prog bands sell themselves.
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: October 21 2013 at 06:28
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 21 2013 at 11:48
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I suppose there is a certain comfort in sticking to the old stuff and thinking that that is the end of it, but prog didn't die in the '80's and there is plenty of good stuff happening today. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: October 25 2013 at 20:30
Great points here. The cheese factor, shoddy production, and "over-progging" are three of my main complaints of a lot of artists who are intentionally trying to (re-)create prog music today. The three bands named above are, IMHO, three of the worst offenders of all three of these. Unfortunately, almost all of the symphonic and Neo bands of today are quite guilty of all three. I find that if you want to find the new, fresh, and innovative music in prog you almost have to go to the RIO/Avant or Experimental/Post Metal sub-genres. I know that I am quite guilty of liking "new" music that fits snugly into the styles and sounds that I favored in the past (e.g. any similarity to the more ambient, synthesized, or world music elements of Sylvian, Eno, Sakamoto, The Cure, Shoegaze, Trip-hop, medieval/Renaissance chamber/neo-classical seems to win me over quite easily.) So much for personal growth and evolution, stagnation and nostalgia! ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |