In the Court of the Crimson King vs Black Sabbath
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Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94419
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Topic: In the Court of the Crimson King vs Black Sabbath
Posted By: Icarium
Subject: In the Court of the Crimson King vs Black Sabbath
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:12
Both so called birthed two genres, also at the same time (almost), both sort of sat standard for progressive music and heavy music, both albums have both heavy and progy elements, and many other elements of eclectic nature, which is your favourie album of the Genesis of Prog and Metal,   -------------  
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Replies:
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:21
| ITCOCK because of I Talk To The Wind |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:23
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that is a pretty song, i love flute. and the ballad style of prog
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:27
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I voted for the both. Each album quite effectively illustrates two very important listening periods of my life. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:28
I'm not a fan of ITCOCK in is entirety but I really love that one (and title track). |
aginor wrote:Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:32
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I think I Talk To The Wind is my fave off it too actually. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:35
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My favourite version of prog is the ballad form so... In court has the best ballads exept Starless
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:39
Both : Because..........eeeh i guess you all know why  ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:43
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In that case Christoffer, have you heard the "second" ITCOTKC - only made by McDonald & Giles? This tune should please a fan of the balladry early prog, who also feels right at home with the whimsical nature of say Supertramp in the mid 70s. Tomorrow's People: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEbxIbBvQYY" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEbxIbBvQYY ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:47
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i will check it out later, as im in the midle of sacreficing a goat to for Black Sabbath
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 06:50
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Sounds like fun. Remember to wear socks! ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 07:09
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well, i am buissy now sacreficing another goat to the Crimson King. i have a listening sesson where i listen to both albums. -------------
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 08:43
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ITCOTCK ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 22:03
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Black Sabbath would have been the album I preferred at age 14. But I have since grown up. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: July 11 2013 at 22:16
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Sabbath is a band i never cared for, but that record is brilliant. It's engaging, powerful, and enjoyable the entire time. Pertaining to KC, i detest the attention their debut gets because of the fact the songs aren't all these masterpieces they're made to be and the album just is a roller coaster of hits and misses.Though the sheer skill of Giles' drumming, jazz sections throughout, and my preference of Lake to Osborne makes me want to vote for the album that "started it all". Voted for Sabbath because i can. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 00:06
Both. Tony Iommi made me want to pick up a guitar. Robert Fripp made me want to learn how to play it. They both made me want to do evil things with it  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 00:20
| It is simply impossible for me to vote. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 05:00
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ITCOTCK. Easy choice. Don't really like the Black Sabbath debut. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 07:49
| i cant vote in this poll, but if i did, i would lean toward king crimson |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 08:01
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 13:19
Mmmm...both?
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 15:03
Wow, actually neither  Fripp is my favourite guitarist and Tony my second. My point was seeing Tony perform at Cal Jam '74 (on TV) made such a huge impression on me that I was inspired to pick up a guitar, 3 years later hearing Fripp amazed me at the other things a guitar could also do. ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 15:05
| just make it clear everyone!!! lol |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 15:20
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Im dence as a teak trunk and mahogny trunk -------------
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Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 18:45
| I had to go with the both option on this one |
Posted By: otto pankrock
Date Posted: July 12 2013 at 19:43
| BOTH are among my favorites. Can't pick one over the other. |
Posted By: Josef_K
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 04:35
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Both are incredible albums, KC is in a slight lead though... plus I hate voting for "both" in this kind of poll. Sabbath is way better when comparing the whole discography though. ------------- Leave the past to burn, At least that's been his own - Peter Hammill |
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 00:26
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Really hard to say. Both albums have a lot in common. Set the bar for their genres. Solid debuts, though both groups would later top them in subsequent efforts. Excellent album covers. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 00:28
Wow, I think the exact opposite. The quality of the Sabbath releases tumbled with Never Say Die and never regained their original excellence while the Crimso albums kept exploring and conquering new ground  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 00:42
| So glad you have the 'both' option. These two albums are historically significant for sure and I rate them both with 5 stars. I've probably listened to them about as much as each other (since the late '80's). Still I never tire from them. |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 01:12
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Both are incredibly iconic and important in the development of popular music, but influence aside, Court is far more consistently brilliant if you ask me. Sabbath got a whole lot better with Paranoid and onwards. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
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Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 07:43
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Voted for both, though honestly I love 'In the Court...' more. ------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 09:56
I agree with you on this......after the first few Sabbath lp's I grew tired of the whole 'heavy metal doom and gloom' thing. When I was young at college we all found the early Sabbath to be 'fun' but after a while it became boring and all of us moved on to more interesting bands.
Not knocking Sabbath btw ( I still pull out the early ones and play them now and then...) but I have always felt that beyond the obvious doom metal thing they really didn't have that much to offer me. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 19:35
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Both are great but In The Court.... gets my vote. It would have been harder if it was Master Of Reality or Paranoid. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 19:41
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The Court, of course. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 23:53
For me, when Ozzy left the magic left as well. I know many Dio fans who will be throwing devil horns my way but the only post-Ozzy song I like is Neon Knights. I know Dio was a great guy, but I much prefer his work in Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow to anything he did in Sabbath. The 1st 5 Sabbath albums created something completely new and unique, then polished it to perfection. To their credit it took another 10+ years for any other bands to take the doom metal genre they created and advance it any farther. ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: July 28 2013 at 11:42
| I have not listened to Black Sabbath's debut. Both are good covers too, but I definitely prefer King Crimson's. |
Posted By: mongofa
Date Posted: July 28 2013 at 13:15
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Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath on Black Sabbath is the best song since King Crimson by King Crimson on King Crimson ------------- 
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Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 29 2013 at 20:37
Just the first five Sabbath albums? Huh. What do you think about about Sabotage, their sixth? I think that did just as much as the previous ones in shaping heavy metal. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 29 2013 at 23:41
Ya, I gotta give Sabotage credit for what I consider Tony's greatest evil riff...Symptom of the Universe. Looking at the whole album though, I think it was a step down in quality from the 1st 5. ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: sukmytoe
Date Posted: July 30 2013 at 01:16
| For me it is Black Sabbath all the way. I wasn't into King Crimson at all back then, was more of a Black Sabbath, Grand Funk Railroad, Uriah Heep man. The Sabs released six classic albums in a row, the next two were way weaker than the first six however there are moments of magic on those two albums as well. Fripp vs Iommi? - Iommi is the riff meister. Tons of respect for Iommi for battling on through the damage to his hand and still becoming a guitar legend. One wonders what would have happened had Iommi not damaged his hand and accordingly played with a guitar that was tuned down - a whole spectrum of music may not exist today possibly. |
Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: July 30 2013 at 08:18
| Sabbath is cool but no way. ITCOCK wins easily. |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: January 02 2014 at 17:02
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Black Sabbath
------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: January 02 2014 at 17:34
The Court for me, but I love Black Sabbath's debut - SO influential, probably more so than King Crimson's 
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 02 2014 at 23:10
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Agi, you do make it rather difficult, but the 'both' option is there so thanks !! Ha - forgot I already voted in this poll (same result though)
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: January 03 2014 at 05:15
| I think The Court is overall better but they were both very influential albums so I vote both. |
Posted By: Utnapishtim
Date Posted: January 03 2014 at 05:35
| King Crimson without no compare. More actual as Guldbamsen said. |
Posted By: GhostPony750
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 21:45
| For me it's without any doubts ITCOCK. Every single songs are good in this album, it's amazing. "I Talk to the Wind" is probably the best one here. |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 22:20
 ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 10:47
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In the Court of the Crimson King is like sequences to a short film. It begins with the thriller affect on Schzoid Man then enters into this dramatic sequence with I Talk to the Wind, Epitaph, and Moonchild....closing with a kind of mysterious piece which is the title track and it sort leaves you hanging and wondering. It's bewitching. It's very luring like your being put under a spell. Fripp always had some interest in the occult. It was more evident on S.A.B.B. , but still very present on the early albums. They were intense in that way. Musically they had a Jazz mentality in the department of gymnastics and Classical background. There overall package was dark and mysterious.
First Black Sabbath album contained a Rock guitar sound that Iommi took from an original idea/concept and pushed it further , creating a louder volume level and a whole new sound. One that Ritchie Blackmore had not exactly ventured into prior to Sabbath existing. Originally the band Blue Cheer were experimenting with this hard driven edgy , noisy , distorted guitar sound when they were stuck in the late 60's ...with almost everyone else playing a more calm, toned down, Psychedelic guitar sound...with the exception of Hendrix, Townshend, and Clapton's heavy tone on Cream Live Vol.1, most psychedelic guitarists were more toned down than that level of volume. Townshend came close to creating a metal sound on Live at Leeds, but Blue Cheer created a darker sound/style with massive volume that sounded pre-metal...such as the intro to "Summertime Blues". It's metal all the way with it's distinctive tri-tone (Devil's Interval) chord change and just the overall sound of what they produce is not Psychedelic and it was 1968. .Blue Cheer wanted and tried to create that more "Heavy Metal" sound in the Psychedelic days. Iommi took that idea steps further...but it wasn't like he had read what other's had done or attempted...because he really crafted a new sound from the idea . The lyrical content of the album contained warnings about things in life that were evil. The lyrics gave you messages on how to deal with evil. Evil was a important issue with the youth then..because of fads designed around witchcraft. There are warnings on Master of Reality. When the band first toured America....they offended the older generation with their image/music/lyrics. In 1971...the staff in high school seemed to react harshly towards kids ...stating that Black Sabbath were a threat
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 16:32
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 21:59
| Crimson's album, easily. I just love it, while Sabbath's album has some really cool songs, but many others I don't care so much about. Plus, in a way Crimson even beat Sabbath on the metal thing with "Schizoid Man" (though later live versions of that song would be heavier and more guitar oriented). |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: January 17 2014 at 23:52
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The classic Prock rock album versus the album that made metal. Both with those long solos that make sense (it took ages for Moonchild's to grip with me unlike Warning)... thankfully we have the both option. |
Posted By: charles_ryder
Date Posted: April 30 2014 at 05:49
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As for me, Black Sabbath was more progressive album than In the Court of the Crimson King. ------------- om mani padme hum |
Posted By: Kentucky_Hawkwindage
Date Posted: May 18 2014 at 17:18
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Black Sabbath for me. ------------- "Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal" Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me |
Posted By: Kirillov
Date Posted: May 19 2014 at 06:44
| Gone for 'both' because I really can't choose! |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 19 2014 at 09:54
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In the Court of the Crimson King any day of the week. I don't care anything about Black Sabbath. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: July 03 2014 at 02:50
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The first prog album and the first metal album. Both very important. I vote for both. ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 03 2014 at 08:52
| Q. What came first, the chicken or the road it crossed? King Crimson. |
Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: July 03 2014 at 10:21
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In the Court for me. Got into music through classic prog outfits, so they still tend to trump everything in my books. ------------- https://twitter.com/ProgFollower" rel="nofollow - @ProgFollower on Twitter. Tweet me muzak. |
Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: July 04 2014 at 14:15
| In The Court. Easily |