Prog Polls - 2 under-appreciated Bassists

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2 under-appreciated Bassists

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Topic: 2 under-appreciated Bassists

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Subject: 2 under-appreciated Bassists
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 15:19

Here are 2 bass players from 2 great bands, often over-looked here as they are only marginally Progressive. Just wondering what the 'masses' think of their bass playing skills ??

Replies:

Posted By: GabrielGenesis
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 15:25

Wishbone Ash.

No contest.

Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 16:17

Martin Turner - he's one of the best.

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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 16:54

Martin Turner-great technique coupled with real emotion in his playing.

Posted By: Memory Cube
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 16:59

Turner as well.

Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 17:20

I guess Turner.

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 19:37

I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.

To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.

Shame on me....

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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin

Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 21:20

dr wu23 wrote:

I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.

To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.

Shame on me....

My thoughts as well, I never really noticed his bass playing on Wishbone Ash probably because I was more focused on the two lead guitarists. Cetera is excellent especially early on before they became more of a pop band. I know Tom has praised Cetera to me several times over the years.

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"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN

Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 21:26

Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub!

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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 00:48

I had a feeling Turner's bass would get the most lovin' around here. They are both quite impressive when they are in their element - creative, competent and versatile. Complex even. I guess I go for Cetera's playing more (I have heaps of Chicago LP's but only a couple from Wishbone). When I witnessed MT's W.A. at BB Kings on my recent vacation to NYC I knew I had been missing out on something. I do find them more at the 'rock' end of the scale, but there's proof that one need not play like Squire or Lee to be amazing. Thanks for voting everyone

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 00:50

tszirmay wrote:

Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub!

Is that the song with the bass solo/riff at the intro ?? If so, they played that at the gig and it knocked me out !!

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 01:10

Mellotron Storm wrote:

dr wu23 wrote:

I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.

To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.

Shame on me....

Turner's playing style influenced Steve Harris without a doubt. I've not heard any folks name-drop Cetera as an influence - shame really - his performances throughout the first 7 (in particular numbers 5 & 7) Chicago albums are pretty awesome. Key tracks I'd recommend are

'Poem For The People'

'Mother'

'Goodbye'

'Something In This City Changes People'

'Devil's Sweet'

'Hanky Panky'

For Wishbone Ash, the bass on 'Argus' probably suffers from being mixed a frad low - there is a sweet riff in 'Sometime World' which is tricky to play, and I love the pairing of 'Warrior/Throw Down the Sword'. The live dbl LP 'Live Dates' features great playing all 'round. 'The Pilgrim' being my favourite, and 'Phoenix' is a cool, extended jam piece.

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 01:22

dr wu23 wrote:

I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.

To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.

Shame on me....

Cetera's stamina on those first 3 Chicago albums is amazing - he's on fire. I actually found his most technical accomplishments being on 5, 6 & 7. His bass on 'Street Player' is tasteful, even with the disco slant. Some of those later 70's M.O.R. albums from them feature some complex playing even though on the surface they sound smooth and accessible.

Turner seems more subtle or restrained - again, straight-forward on the surface, though anything but.

Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 02:29

Tom Ozric wrote:

tszirmay wrote:

Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub!

Is that the song with the bass solo/riff at the intro ?? If so, they played that at the gig and it knocked me out !!

That's the ONE! Amazing bass riff, a classic rumble to say the least. Not really all that complicated but very EFFECTIVE

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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 02:56

tszirmay wrote:

Tom Ozric wrote:

tszirmay wrote:

Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub!

Is that the song with the bass solo/riff at the intro ?? If so, they played that at the gig and it knocked me out !!

That's the ONE! Amazing bass riff, a classic rumble to say the least. Not really all that complicated but very EFFECTIVE

There's The Rub - darn it, I had my chance to by this a few weeks back but got the Live Dates LP instead - I honestly thought it was from around 1979/80 (with that Cricket Ball cover) ?? Don't ask.....

Just read your (quality) review of the album - man I love your reviews.......anyway, I will be looking out for this one in the future. For now, I will be removing 'Le Porte Del Domani' from the turntable and plonking on 'Argus' !!

Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 06:35

Tom Ozric wrote:

For Wishbone Ash, the bass on 'Argus' probably suffers from being mixed a frad low - there is a sweet riff in 'Sometime World' which is tricky to play

I'd have to disagree, the bass seems pretty clear on my copy of Argus, I do however totally agree about Sometime World - great bass riff.

Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 09:17

Tom Ozric wrote:

dr wu23 wrote:

I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.

To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.

Shame on me....

Turner seems more subtle or restrained - again, straight-forward on the surface, though anything but.

I always felt that Chicago drifted into pop radio territory from 5 on so I didn't listen to those lp's very often...but there are some interesting tracks even on the later lp's.

Argus is my favorite Ash lp and if his bass is not up front that may be why many have ignored his playing. There are many solid bass players out there like Turner who just don't get mentioned for various reasons.

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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 13:28

chopper wrote:

Tom Ozric wrote:

For Wishbone Ash, the bass on 'Argus' probably suffers from being mixed a frad low - there is a sweet riff in 'Sometime World' which is tricky to play

I'd have to disagree, the bass seems pretty clear on my copy of Argus, I do however totally agree about Sometime World - great bass riff.

You're right !! I went back and gave my Argus LP a spin and my remark of it being low was incorrect (well, not as up-front as I'd like...). I dunno what I was thinking. 'Time Was' is amazing, some great bass runs in there too. I picked these 2 bassists coz they're not spoken about often and they really go by under the radar. Turner loves his Gibson 'Thunderbird' bass !! Cetera loves his Fender Precision basses. He did have a Gibson SG bass around '72, and some nice wood-grain finished bass in the late-70's (don't know the make).

Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 19:54

I love the vids of Wishbone Ash with Turner, especially from the BBC with Vas Dis and Jailbait where he is playing a Rickenbacker and singing. He was, and by the sounds of it, still is, an important part of the group's live presence.

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 00:19

presdoug wrote:

I love the vids of Wishbone Ash with Turner, especially from the BBC with Vas Dis and Jailbait where he is playing a Rickenbacker and singing. He was, and by the sounds of it, still is, an important part of the group's live presence.

He does indeed have a majestic stage prescence. I haven't heard him playing a Ricky - I have a Ricky, love the crunching tone.

I did read an article in Bass Player magazine on Cetera (one of the only features on him I am aware of) and he never played a Ricky. I do know he hardly ever picks up a bass these days (crooners aren't supposed to do that

). I honestly don't know what happened there..........and he is a bit of a spoil-sport by not allowing any official release of Chicago performances that feature him

. Damn his ego..............

Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 04:55

Martin Turner .... as above re "Vas Dis" from Pilgrimage, "Sometime World" from Argus and "FUBB" from There's the Rub.

Can't get a much better bassist than Martin Turner......also an underrated composer and singer as well.

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 01:42

I must admit I voted for Cetera only because I like Chicago a lot more than Wishbone Ash.

Another contender for a poll like this might be the 'mighty' Demis Rousos who played bass on Aphrodites Child' seventies masterpeice 666

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 02:16

richardh wrote:

I must admit I voted for Cetera only because I like Chicago a lot more than Wishbone Ash.

Another contender for a poll like this might be the 'mighty' Demis Rousos who played bass on Aphrodites Child' seventies masterpeice 666

Yes, that was quite a surprise to learn Roussos was a bassist in a psychedelic band - years ago I used to have 2 Aphrodites Child albums (666 & some other with a colourful cover with a b&w photo of the band ??) - they did nothing for me at all..............Cetera is still more accomplished

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 26 2013 at 21:41

Cetera - 9 votes, Turner - 8 votes.

Interesting results. I expected Turner's count to soar........

Posted By: Rando
Date Posted: July 26 2013 at 22:22

Tom Ozric wrote:

Here are 2 bass players from 2 great bands, often over-looked here as they are only marginally Progressive. Just wondering what the 'masses' think of their bass playing skills ??

Pete Cetera absolutely gets my vote, apart from being one of Rock music's best vocalists. I already mentioned in another related thread, their album Chicago V as one of my favorites.
The gem song in this particular album is the track "Goodbye." Cetera does some his best playing on this track, and also sings lead.

Clap

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- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 27 2013 at 00:18

Rando wrote:

Rando

'Goodbye' does display killer bass chops - some of Pete's bass playing on VII whips it for me, though. Still, the fifth album is superb. And P.C. does have a fine voice

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: December 17 2013 at 05:29

Finally got around to watching a live-clip of 'Vas Dis' - with Turner playing a Rickenbacker - *amazing* song, superb bass playing - not sure if Cetera could pull that sort of bass-line off.........

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 21 2014 at 23:45

Just re-visiting this old thread to say that Mart's playing on the Wishbone debut is outstanding - especially the wonderful track 'Handy'.
There's The Rub also has some wicked playing from the man.

Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: March 24 2014 at 03:14

Martin Turner for his work on Sometime World. Both are great players so it needs to be something exceptional and Sometime World is just that. Exceptional number on an exceptional album - yet over looked on the BBC Sessions (CD with the reissue).

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 00:59

uduwudu wrote:

Martin Turner for his work on Sometime World. Both are great players so it needs to be something exceptional and Sometime World is just that. Exceptional number on an exceptional album - yet over looked on the BBC Sessions (CD with the reissue).

Of couse I'm going to respond to this comment .... Sometime World holds a remarkable bass workout - Mart has done better, but the bass constructions here work perfectly in this piece (and somewhat tricky to play)
Undeniably, Argus is a fine album, though I'm totally won-over with the absolutely glistening debut.
I love being bowled over by a band I had initially thought had no Prog credentials. I almost left after seeing Nektar's gig at BB kings in NYC last year. Mart's band were on after, and I decided to stick around to see what all the fuss was about WA. I am ever so glad I did................

Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 01:20

Martin's playing is more "progressive..." He uses Rotosound strings & a plectrum, like Squire, Lake etc. so he gets that very fast, piano-like tone. Very much a lead-bass player....check his playing out at 2:48 of this clip.

Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 01:25

Turner.

Cetera has long since hung up his basses, and when he was playing it (and playing it well), that was way, way, way back when, in an era a long time ago...

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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 01:40

^ Bloody shame - waste of considerable bass-chops for Pete. Mart is still on top of his game.
At least what Pete did 'way, way, way back' is memorable and impressive for sure. Both guys are leaders in their respective directions. Dearly love both of their work.

Posted By: DiamondDog
Date Posted: March 26 2014 at 08:27

Pete for me. And how about Ian Ellis (Clouds/Steve Hackett etc etc)?

Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 00:49

cstack3 wrote:

Martin's playing is more "progressive..." He uses Rotosound strings & a plectrum, like Squire, Lake etc. so he gets that very fast, piano-like tone. Very much a lead-bass player....check his playing out at 2:48 of this clip.

Pete also used a plectrum and various basses, his fave being his Fender-P's. He had some nice wood-grained number in the late-70's but don't know what make it is. The song Hanky Panky (from VII) has some impressive playing.
Mart's bass in Sometime World is killer, but he also had many other highlights. These guys are no Squire or Lee, but they didn't need to be, what they both do is weave pure magic into the songs.