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who/what is Tom Bombadil

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Topic: who/what is Tom Bombadil
Posted By: Icarium
Subject: who/what is Tom Bombadil
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 11:31
these are my main four theories, or laeds, is he the same race as Gandalf, Souron and Balrogs, or is he a higher being a vala, like Eömve, Melkor, Orome, Manwe or is he Arda, the earth, middle earth, or is he the god of all, Eru?

I am postiive to that he is not Eru, personally I lead towards him being Arda in person, sort of like a Avatar or a mortal personification of Middle earth , any other suggestions.




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Replies:
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 11:48
The Spirit of Nature? Maybe.

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Have you seen them Khajiits?


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 11:58
I think he is just a very old nature spirit not belonging to any particular race above. His power comes from the wisdom he has gained through simply being around for many thousands of years and learning the loopholes in the way the world works.

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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 12:24
Something else: J.R.R. Tolkien, creating a Gary Sue character acting as a Deus Ex Machina.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 15:16
He is.



Though if there was an option for damn annoying I would have picked it.


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 15:27
i think he is a jolly being, i want to be like him if i could

he reminds me of Snufkin k


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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 16:00
I've always seen him as some sort of independent Maia; maybe he is something else...

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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 16:09
I still thin he is Arda but i also hell to what some of the people above is saying that he is a spirit of some sort, or a spirit of Arda, 

an  avatar of Arda of some sort


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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 16:19
I have no idea what the thread is about, sorry


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 16:31
Tom Bombadil is an elusive figure in the Lord of the Rings e who has no certain place of origin or race which he belongs in, in the very dense and complex universe Tolkien created. Since the book was released, the largest headache for the geeks, was where do Tom Bombadil fit into the whole universe of Valas, Maias, Elvs, men, Dwarf, ents, hobbits, and such, and he have given many headaches, and have created gazzilion theories and speculation and, i would not be surprised if some have even written a university paper on the matter as well.

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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 17:44
He is very green. I like him.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 17:48
he sings songs that ether cheers you up when you are a guest, or sing songs that outright kill you if you trade with evil deeds and hurt good people in his Forrest 

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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 17:49
Just like Sting actually.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 17:57
^ see, damn annoying.
 
 
QED


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 18:00
QED (Quasimodo Eats Donuts)?




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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 18:04
Probably.

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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 18:32
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ see, damn annoying.
 
 
QED


LOL


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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 19:00
I think he's a chimpanzee

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http://www.last.fm/user/TullDerGraff" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 05:01
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

He is.



Though if there was an option for damn annoying I would have picked it.

Damn straight!


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Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 06:49
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

He is very green. I like him.
LOL


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http://www.last.fm/user/chopper777/?chartstyle=basicrt10" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 06:59
I've always thought he'd either be a Maia or a spirit that avoided being corrupted into a Balrog or some other monster by Melkor.

Can't be a Valar, there's only 14 of them, all named, and they stay in Valinor as the "Gods in Mount Olympus".


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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 07:02
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

if there was an option for damn annoying I would have picked it


I suspect Peter Jackson agrees with you

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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 07:09
Is "I don't give a sh*t" an option?

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http://www.last.fm/user/chopper777/?chartstyle=basicrt10" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 07:48
No

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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 10:18
My bet is that Tom Bombaldil is an alien, coming from another world than Arda (maybe Krypton?). That would explain why he doesn't fit in the racial classification of the Middle Earth universe.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 19:51
Bombadil is Tolkien's private joke on his readers. Tolkien actually mentioned in his letters that Old Tom is  "the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside", a physical manifestation of the Oxfordshire Tolkien loved and remembered from his youth. Bombadil was added in because Tolkien thought his spirit was "important" and not necessarily germane to the story as a whole. Tolkien requested the addition of the character to Lord of the Rings in a letter to his publisher dated 16 December 1937.

In addition, Bombadil himself mentions in the book that he is the"eldest", which is literally true. Tom is neither Maia, Vala or Eru himself; in fact, he predates The Lord of the Rings and many elements of the Silmarillion as well, first appearing in a series of poems Tolkien wrote in 1934. Bombadil was originally named in honor of a doll in his children's bedroom.

Finally, the One Ring does not affect Tom because he is not part of the story, but rather an entity unto himself within a self-contained land whose boundaries he alone has set.


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Please pay a visit to my blog... http://darkelffile.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Dark Elf File ...a slighty skewed journal of music reviews, literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 05:11
good answer

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Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world



Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 16:02
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Something else: J.R.R. Tolkien, creating a Gary Sue character acting as a Deus Ex Machina.


Huh? He doesn't do anything. That kinda precludes him from being a Deus Ex Machina.


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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 16:22
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Something else: J.R.R. Tolkien, creating a Gary Sue character acting as a Deus Ex Machina.


Huh? He doesn't do anything. That kinda precludes him from being a Deus Ex Machina.


Whaaaaat? Hey, he offers the Hobbits some excellent meal. And food is something quite important for the Hobbits. Ergo, Deus Ex Cucina.


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 16:24
He does rescue them from a tree and a barrow wight, but those threats were not really necessary to the plot and seemed to only be there to give old Tom an excuse to show up, so not really a Deus Ex Machina.

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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 16:32
Tom Bombadil was proof that Tolkien was a linguist first and a writer second.

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http://epignosis.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Listen to the new Epignosis album for free- it's good for your health


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 16:33
Let's call Treebeard "Exhibit B."

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http://epignosis.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Listen to the new Epignosis album for free- it's good for your health


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 16:34
The Ent language is one of the most interesting things in the book, I think.

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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 16:47
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

He does rescue them from a tree and a barrow wight, but those threats were not really necessary to the plot and seemed to only be there to give old Tom an excuse to show up, so not really a Deus Ex Machina.


Yeah. Neither that or the willow were central conflicts to the story. And even so his means of rescue didn't really involve anything out of the ordinary. You could argue the barrows was important because of the nazgul killing daggers, but still ya know?


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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 17:17
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

The Ent language is one of the most interesting things in the book, I think.


That's fine, but when you're knee deep in orc blood, you don't want 30 pages of a linguistics lesson.

Or a philosophy course.  Isn't that right, Ayn Rand?



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http://epignosis.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Listen to the new Epignosis album for free- it's good for your health


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 17:23
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

The Ent language is one of the most interesting things in the book, I think.


That's fine, but when you're knee deep in orc blood, you don't want 30 pages of a linguistics lesson.

Or a philosophy course.  Isn't that right, Ayn Rand?



I do! It's why I love Victor Hugo's lengthy digressions on the Paris sewers or the history of the octopus.


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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 18:14
A variety of pickle.

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 22:13
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

The Ent language is one of the most interesting things in the book, I think.


That's fine, but when you're knee deep in orc blood, you don't want 30 pages of a linguistics lesson.

Or a philosophy course.  Isn't that right, Ayn Rand?



I do! It's why I love Victor Hugo's lengthy digressions on the Paris sewers or the history of the octopus.


Explains why you like Moby Dick then.  Dead


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http://epignosis.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Listen to the new Epignosis album for free- it's good for your health


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 22:15
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

The Ent language is one of the most interesting things in the book, I think.


That's fine, but when you're knee deep in orc blood, you don't want 30 pages of a linguistics lesson.

Or a philosophy course.  Isn't that right, Ayn Rand?



I do! It's why I love Victor Hugo's lengthy digressions on the Paris sewers or the history of the octopus.


Explains why you like Moby Dick then.  Dead


Indeed. I'm of the opinion that plot is only one feature of many that are important for great literature.


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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 22:27
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

The Ent language is one of the most interesting things in the book, I think.


That's fine, but when you're knee deep in orc blood, you don't want 30 pages of a linguistics lesson.

Or a philosophy course.  Isn't that right, Ayn Rand?



I do! It's why I love Victor Hugo's lengthy digressions on the Paris sewers or the history of the octopus.


Explains why you like Moby Dick then.  Dead


Indeed. I'm of the opinion that plot is only one feature of many that are important for great literature.


That's fine, but don't bore me.


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http://epignosis.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Listen to the new Epignosis album for free- it's good for your health


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: August 02 2013 at 22:28
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


That's fine, but don't bore me.


Too late. Wink


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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 00:02
maiar......it is written older than fangorn, the oldest of trees

untamable nature


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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 13:54
@Epignosis : Why don't write your own Lord of the Rings Book. All the comments I read from you about it seems to be negative.

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Have you seen them Khajiits?


Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 16:53
Does he have to like the book?

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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 17:12
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

@Epignosis : Why don't write your own Lord of the Rings Book. All the comments I read from you about it seems to be negative.


I adore The Lord of the Rings.

And I am writing a fantasy series, but it won't have linguistic tangents that take 30+ pages to get through.


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http://epignosis.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Listen to the new Epignosis album for free- it's good for your health


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 17:16
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

it won't have linguistic tangents that take 30+ pages to get through.


But like most politicians, he promised more than he could deliver.


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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 17:19
Me or Tolkien?  LOL

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http://epignosis.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Listen to the new Epignosis album for free- it's good for your health


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 17:21
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Me or Tolkien?  LOL


You! Tongue


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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 17:22
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Me or Tolkien?  LOL


You! Tongue


Ha!  My chapters for this series average 1500 words.  Wink


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http://epignosis.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Listen to the new Epignosis album for free- it's good for your health


Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 17:23
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/t/tombombadil.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/t/tombombadil.html

http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html
" rel="nofollow -

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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 17:28
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Me or Tolkien?  LOL


You! Tongue


Ha!  My chapters for this series average 1500 words.  Wink


The chapters in my latest novel are all about 2000 words. I think it is a good chapter length. Unfortunately, there are sixty of them, so it is taking a while.


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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 03 2013 at 18:23
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

@Epignosis : Why don't write your own Lord of the Rings Book. All the comments I read from you about it seems to be negative.
I adore The Lord of the Rings.And I am writing a fantasy series, but it won't have linguistic tangents that take 30+ pages to get through.

Tough love, I guess.

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Have you seen them Khajiits?


Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: August 04 2013 at 00:51
I agree with what the OP said.  Or if he's not an embodiment of Arda that he's the main "piece" of it as an organism.  Like the heart of Arda that has been there as long as it's existed and will die when it dies.


Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: August 04 2013 at 00:52
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

The Ent language is one of the most interesting things in the book, I think.


I agree.  Along with their whole culture.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 04 2013 at 08:28
Haven't read LOTR in many many years......but from what I read on the wiki link it sounds like Tolkien crossed the Green Man with Tom O' Bedlam and came up with his Tom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Bombadil" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Bombadil

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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 04 2013 at 10:52
Personally, I think it is possible that Bombadil is a bit of a writer's cock-up and the Ents (specifically Treeebeard) are the (plot) remedy - both can be seen as versions of The Green Man to some extent. In fantasy fiction you cannot have the good guys more powerful than the bad guys they have to overcome (or there is no threat of peril in the endeavour) - Saruman would have been no match for Bombadil so the Ents were created for the attack on Isengard and in the story Bombadil is sidelined.

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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: August 04 2013 at 11:19
My bet is that Tom Bombaldil is a Timelord.

Nope, I don't spend nights on TVTropes.



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