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Bandcamp suggestions...are they worth it?

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Unsigned Bands
Forum Discription: For new prog bands with no official releases
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95146
Printed Date: July 22 2014 at 19:04
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.69 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Bandcamp suggestions...are they worth it?
Posted By: Chris S
Subject: Bandcamp suggestions...are they worth it?
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 03:50
I am curious as to why some member(s) insist on adding every band on bandcamp that comes along to this thread? Sure in an ideal world we would all love to see a band make it but surely bandcamp is merely a huge unending bucket of many one man bands/part-timers using a prog tag to maximise their coverage? Yet how many of these are really prog?

Seems an awful lot of effort....and I am not sure the exercise merits attention. Would be interested to see what others think about this.


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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...



Replies:
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 06:13
What a complete waste of time, that's effectively just spam.

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Ian

Anyone who thinks Kansas is Prog get out of the room - Adolf Hitler



Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 06:20
I strongly believe we should not be expending too much energy on these bands. If they have a web-presence outside Bandcamp and the ubiquitous social network channels then (and only then) should we look at them, but that should be at the discretion of the respective Sub-genre Teams, not as a golden rule that they must follow.

The Bandcamp thread under General Music Discussions is not a Suggestion New Bands thread - feel free to ignore it at your leisure.


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 07:55
Originally posted by Chris S

I am curious as to why some member(s) insist on adding every band on bandcamp that comes along to this thread? Sure in an ideal world we would all love to see a band make it but surely bandcamp is merely a huge unending bucket of many one man bands/part-timers using a prog tag to maximise their coverage? Yet how many of these are really prog?

Seems an awful lot of effort....and I am not sure the exercise merits attention. Would be interested to see what others think about this.


I obviously can't speak for others, but an informed guess on my behalf would be, that these members feel they're doing good work for PA in helping it become the ultimate source on progressive rock. Personally, I think it's a great disservice to both PA as well as to the acts themselves. I don't think I've ever seen one of these bands mentioned in a thread - let alone read a review of one their records on the front-page(hang on, I seem to remember Alan(colourofmoney) doing one a little while back. Wow 1 review then....). 
Must be frustrating as a band, artist, bedroom music magician - to get included on a well respected site, get one's hopes up and all that - for then to be completely forgotten the second later. 
The other side is that the teams on here end up getting clocked by artists that they use up a lot of their time on - searching for info in regards to bios, albums and whatnot. And then at the other end - all of that work becomes close to redundant, on account of lacking interest from the community. Plus some of the acts that actually do have a following, respected careers and chances of getting mentioned in both reviews and threads, end up in cue - awaiting a decision on some bandcamp act that exactly two people have heard of...



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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 11:15
It depends on the type of Bandcamp band really. If it is an artist whose sole presence is on Bandcamp, and the release is digital on that site solely, then value is limited. But there aren't too many of those cases actually.

I do find that many bands on Bandcamp for some reason or other fail to mention that their music is also available on CD and/or vinyl for instance, and just as many fail to mention an existence elsewhere on the net as well. So while they may appear as a Bandcamp only band, in reality they aren't. Which, basically, boils down to poor marketing skills. Which is the reason for the existence of stuff like record labels in the first place I guess.

Bandcamp has also become much more than it was just a couple of years ago, http://lasersedge.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - as this link documents quite nicely. Of course, it might be more fruitful to explore other sources of potential artist additions prior to bandcamp - CDBaby and emusic to name but two of many more high profile sources or potential artist additions that to my knowledge hasn't been given a thorough run. When checking both those sites from time to time I come across tons of artists that haven't yet been given a check.


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The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 11:23
I question the value of most of CDBaby's output to be absolutely frank - anyone can have a CD sold via CDBaby, many of them are low-volume productions-runs on CDR (most of which remain unsold). Slightly more valid than Bandcamp because the artists involved actually had to do something physical to get their music out there.

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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 11:53
I just read Spotify lost 78 million dollars last year, one wonders how well the new paradigm is going. 
 
Meanwhile I just saw a news show about how some smaller vinyl companies cannot keep up with their demand, even running shifts round the clock.  I realize those little companies are small potatoes, but heh, it's nice to hear all the same. 


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Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 13:07
The Unsigned Bands policy reads:


"1. Only bands with no official releases (see below), but with the intention of publishing an official release at some point shall be spotted. Once an official release is available the band shall go to the Suggest New Bands forum or to the Genre Teams evaluation depending on their quality/progginess, etc. At the time of move, an indication of which genre team should consider the band will be added to the thread title.


For the purpose of clarity, an official release is defined here as:

1.1 A single long track or several shorter tracks combined under one title, with at least the length of an EP (10-25 minutes);

1.2 Recorded and mixed in a professional manner, such that it meets commercial sound quality as found on average CDs released by commercial record companies;

1.3 That is available for sale on demand, either in physical (glass pressed CD (not burned CD-R) or vinyl, not tape) form or downloadable (MP3, Ogg, iTunes...) from the band themselves or through a commercial distribution company/record shop; and

1.4 Being sold as a commercial product rather than a promotional item."




So every band added here is meant to be introduced as professional(touring, selling, etc)-to-be prog band. 
I'd rather vote for this place to be a pool of projects where there'd be only two rules:

1. One really enjoys what one adds.
2. It can obviously be called prog.

There's nothing to fear about forgotten hidden gems, because any mp3 can be kept safe nowadays, and the opportunities to find the right ears on the web have become unlimited. You'll hardly be or meet the misunderstood ONLY ONE on Earth to enjoy music that so many would celebrate centuries later, would you.


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 13:14
There are some great genuine bands on there that deserve to be here. One of my Top 10 albums I submitted to the collab list came from bandcamp. But as you said I'm pretty sure they have a small presence outside of that site. I agree that suggestions from there should be slowed down though. Not every band from there with a progressive tag should be posted here or suggested for addition. It just adds to the lists of bands that get no ratings or reviews besides the person who may have suggested them. I don't think that's a worthy exchange. Though, we are an "archive".

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http://myanimelist.net/profile/Delouzed" rel="nofollow - http://myanimelist.net/profile/Delouzed


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 13:54
Originally posted by jayem

So every band added here is meant to be introduced as professional(touring, selling, etc)-to-be prog band. 
I'd rather vote for this place to be a pool of projects where there'd be only two rules:

1. One really enjoys what one adds.
2. It can obviously be called prog.

There's nothing to fear about forgotten hidden gems, because any mp3 can be kept safe nowadays, and the opportunities to find the right ears on the web have become unlimited. You'll hardly be or meet the misunderstood ONLY ONE on Earth to enjoy music that so many would celebrate centuries later, would you.
Bandcamp is an adequate "pool of projects" as it is, it does not need us to validate or replicate that.
 
I strongly oppose "1. One really enjoys what one adds." - that is not why we are here - if we had to like and enjoy all the bands we added or voted for the database would be a lot smaller I assure you. I really disliked some of the bands I voted for in Crossover, I still voted infavour of their inclusion and added them. We get accused of adding our "favourites" enough as it is, if it became official policy this place would become a joke and most of us would leave.
 
[The internet is not a safe place to keep mp3s alive, far from it - I predict that most of the mp3s currently on the internet will not be there in 10 years time, let alone 100. Thousands of mp3s vanished when mp3.com changed its modus operandi ten years ago, millions disappeared when Megaupload was closed down by the Feds. While Bandcamp makes money for its owners it will exist, it can only make money by attracting people like Amanda Palmer who shift downloads by the thousand, the more high-selling artists it can attract the less it will need (or want) the small independant artists that sell 10-100 downloads. The internet is akin to a dynamic storage medium, the stored mp3s are only accessible if the links to them exist, links that are not refreshed get lost and access to the mp3s is lost with them.]


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 15:30
Originally posted by Dean

Bandcamp is an adequate "pool of projects" as it is, it does not need us to validate or replicate that.

No I mean exclusively prog projects.

Originally posted by Dean

I strongly oppose "1. One really enjoys what one adds." - that is not why we are here

Sorry I didn't mean "add" as "vote for adding a regular band", but only as a project in this very UB thread .

Of course this rule "1" can work only if PA has become big enough,  for enthousiasts to add projects if the main caretakers miss them.  Doesn't Wikipedia work like this?

Originally posted by Dean

 - if we had to like and enjoy all the bands we added or voted for the database would be a lot smaller I assure you. I really disliked some of the bands I voted for in Crossover, I still voted infavour of their inclusion and added them. We get accused of adding our "favourites" enough as it is, if it became official policy this place would become a joke and most of us would leave.

Those efforts seem huge indeed !! But you're talking about the next stage, when bands have a signed status.

 
[The internet is not a safe place to keep mp3s alive, far from it - I predict that most of the mp3s currently on the internet will not be there in 10 years time, let alone 100. Thousands of mp3s vanished when mp3.com changed its modus operandi ten years ago, millions disappeared when Megaupload was closed down by the Feds. While Bandcamp makes money for its owners it will exist, it can only make money by attracting people like Amanda Palmer who shift downloads by the thousand, the more high-selling artists it can attract the less it will need (or want) the small independant artists that sell 10-100 downloads. The internet is akin to a dynamic storage medium, the stored mp3s are only accessible if the links to them exist, links that are not refreshed get lost and access to the mp3s is lost with them.]

Thanks, once again, for your time giving information. One shouldn't be too optimistic, but nonprofit organizations also work in the music field. In Switzerland for instance, mx3.ch is the place thousands swiss bands/musicians store their stuff on.



Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 16:25
Originally posted by jayem

Originally posted by Dean

Bandcamp is an adequate "pool of projects" as it is, it does not need us to validate or replicate that.

No I mean exclusively prog projects.

Originally posted by Dean

I strongly oppose "1. One really enjoys what one adds." - that is not why we are here

Sorry I didn't mean "add" as "vote for adding a regular band", but only as a project in this very UB thread .

Of course this rule "1" can work only if PA has become big enough,  for enthousiasts to add projects if the main caretakers miss them.  Doesn't Wikipedia work like this?

We have no rules for adding "recomendations" into the General Music Section of the forum, nor do we need them. I was only referring to those bands added to the PA database, not the forum. We are not run like Wikipedia.

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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 18:51
Well...I confess that I was recently about to add the Wanana Bani Garden band, one of my happiest prog discoveries ever (sic!), on Unsigned Bands. 

But I haven't so far, because of the not so perfect renderings. As the band leader doesn't seem to focus on a song until it's perfect and prefers going on with new stuff, my hope for a beyond-utterly-perfect rendering is quite low.

My sharing about this band ended up, along with other projects the same main composer was involved in, in Prog Recommendations.   http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94960" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94960

Would one rather have it added in a General Music Discussions thread?
Would this Unsigned Bands thread be suitable anyway?


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I promote music on my homepage but also

Aragon (Changeling, otEdge)
Pulp Culture (EoRD, ItSoaP)
Tiemko
Tuvalu (live)
uSSSy (Kombucha)
Wanana-Bani Garden (+postprod?)
WytchCrypt (intros!; 6th!)


Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: September 10 2013 at 22:46
While I don't come close to listening to all of the "bandcamp bands" recommended here, I have found a couple of dozen bands on bandcamp that I enjoy and have bought CDs from.  I think bandcamp is a great place for both new and established bands to release their music.  I would also hate for a band to not be added to PA just because bandcamp is their only/primary distribution method.

Long live bandcamp!  Big smile


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Frank Swarbrick
--
Belief is not Truth.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 11 2013 at 02:33
Originally posted by jayem

Well...I confess that I was recently about to add the Wanani Bane Band, one of my happiest prog discoveries ever (sic!), on Unsigned Bands. 

But I haven't so far, because of the not so perfect renderings. As the band leader doesn't seem to focus on a song until it's perfect and prefers going on with new stuff, my hopes for a non-utterly-perfect rendering is quite low.

My sharing about this band ended up, along with other projects the same main composer was involded in, in Prog Recommendations.   http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94960" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94960

Would one rather have it added in a General Music Discussions thread?
Would this Unsigned Bands thread be suitable anyway?
All Prog Lounges, including Prog Recommendations are for bands already listed in the main PA archive, so strictly speaking that thread should have been created in General Music Discussions or Unsigned Bands, unless you want us to evaluate them for addition, then Suggest new Bands would be the place.


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 19 2013 at 23:07
Originally posted by Dean

I strongly believe we should not be expending too much energy on these bands. If they have a web-presence outside Bandcamp and the ubiquitous social network channels then (and only then) should we look at them, but that should be at the discretion of the respective Sub-genre Teams, not as a golden rule that they must follow.

The Bandcamp thread under General Music Discussions is not a Suggestion New Bands thread - feel free to ignore it at your leisure.

That's my fear.

How many of this bands really exist?

A group of 5 kids join in a garage, they have 5 songs and send them to bandcamp as an experiment.

We add them, and 2 months later they don't exist, they never released a real album...What's the point on adding them?

We added a couple bands from Band camp like Via Obscura, but only when they were verified on different sites.

Another one was really good and they had released a real physical album, so we went with them.

Iván


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 20 2013 at 00:12
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M


We added a couple bands from Band camp like Via Obscura, (...)

(...)

Iván
Yes you did it after my suggestion >>>  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90239&KW=via+obscura&PID=4643414#4643414" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90239&KW=via+obscura&PID=4643414#4643414


Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: September 20 2013 at 00:24
Tough issue indeed.

I know some bands appearing only upon Bandcamp which are tremendously skilled / professional and well deserved for inclusion into PA, and on the contrary, some under formal contract to labels (including independent ones) which are amateur-ish and no-thank-you in PA (as some Admins / Collabs know, Kazuhiro and I strongly were opposed to an inclusion case which had been done without notice a while before).

But hey, we PA have fantastic "Subgenre Evaluation Teams", that can make proper decisions, let me say.

As a result, Teams can add artists suitable for PA "with enough info" or "with enough historical background (even if they're obscure)", and cannot add without them.


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http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 20 2013 at 01:21
Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M


We added a couple bands from Bandcamp like Via Obscura, (...)

(...)

Iván
Yes you did it after my suggestion >>>  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90239&KW=via+obscura&PID=4643414#4643414" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90239&KW=via+obscura&PID=4643414#4643414

NEVER DENIED IT, BUT THE SUGGESTION WAS NOT DONE IN THE BANDCAMP THREAD IT WAS DONE IN A PROPER THREAD CALLED 

"Via Obscura (Germany) for Symphonic Prog"   http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90239&PID=4643477#4643477" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90239&PID=4643477#4643477


If it had been done in the Bandcamp thread, I would not even noticed it, and to be honest, not even cared for it specially after reading the tags that the site made.

tags:  http://bandcamp.com/tag/gothic?from=tralbum&artist=3995180911" rel="nofollow - gothic   http://bandcamp.com/tag/pop?from=tralbum&artist=3995180911" rel="nofollow - pop   http://bandcamp.com/tag/rock" rel="nofollow - rock   http://bandcamp.com/tag/soundtrack" rel="nofollow - soundtrack   http://bandcamp.com/tag/d%C3%BCster" rel="nofollow - düster   http://bandcamp.com/tag/modern-krautrock" rel="nofollow - modern krautrock   http://bandcamp.com/tag/pad-strings" rel="nofollow - pad strings http://bandcamp.com/tag/psychedelic" rel="nofollow - psychedelic   http://bandcamp.com/tag/soundtrack" rel="nofollow - soundtrack   http://bandcamp.com/tag/m%C3%BCnster" rel="nofollow - Münster

Of course they were added only after 

1.-  Verifying it in their own website, and that the band had three years of existence

http://www.viaobscura.de/" rel="nofollow - http://www.viaobscura.de/

As Dean well said:

Originally posted by Dean

If they have a web-presence outside Bandcamp and the ubiquitous social network channels then (and only then) should we look at them, but that should be at the discretion of the respective Sub-genre Teams, not as a golden rule that they must follow.



That was the case of Via Obscura, they existed outside Bandcamp.

2.- Searching for information about the artist in the web.

3.- Receiving a PM from Finnforest if I'm not wrong

4.- And contacting the band for some info

So I insist, IMHO searching the Bandcamp  thread is a waste of time, you may find one good band after digging hours.

Iván

PS: I daily make a search with the word Symphonic, and I check everything that's there, before notifying the team. I never give them a name and expect them to research, I give them all the available info.

This is what I gave them in  the Symphonic thread

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

I found a suggestion by Svetonio 

The band is called VIA OBSCURA    http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90239&PID=4643477#4643477" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90239&PID=4643477#4643477

The link to their full album is:  http://viaobscura.bandcamp.com/track/traum" rel="nofollow - http://viaobscura.bandcamp.com/track/traum

Vampire Freams (A Goth site) says about them:  http://vampirefreaks.com/viaobscura" rel="nofollow - http://vampirefreaks.com/viaobscura

Their official site is:  http://www.viaobscura.de/band" rel="nofollow - http://www.viaobscura.de/band  (German, but google makes a very decent translation).

My reply is:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

We will check them.

I like what I listen, but remember, the own band members say in their bio:

VIA OBSCURA was founded in 2004 in Münster as an experimental band project. With dedication to music in general, a background in rock bands with 70-s-influences, jazz, Gothic-Rock-/Doom-Bands, progressive metal, classical music and openness to other genres

http://www.viaobscura.de/band" rel="nofollow - http://www.viaobscura.de/band

In Bandcamp they are tagged as 

tags:  http://bandcamp.com/tag/gothic" rel="nofollow - gothic   http://bandcamp.com/tag/pop" rel="nofollow - pop   http://bandcamp.com/tag/rock" rel="nofollow - rock   http://bandcamp.com/tag/soundtrack?from=tralbum&artist=3995180911" rel="nofollow - soundtrack   http://bandcamp.com/tag/modern-krautrock?from=tralbum&artist=3995180911" rel="nofollow - modern krautrock   http://bandcamp.com/tag/m%C3%BCnster" rel="nofollow - Münster  

http://viaobscura.bandcamp.com/track/traum" rel="nofollow - http://viaobscura.bandcamp.com/track/traum

In Vampire Freaks (Goth site), they are described as:

VIA OBSCURA was formed in 2004 as an experimental goth band project. Via Obscura love music in general, and they have an eclectic background of jazz, gothic-rock/doom bands and classical ensembles 

http://vampirefreaks.com/viaobscura" rel="nofollow - http://vampirefreaks.com/viaobscura

Despite this facts, I believe they have a slight chance in Symphonic, because the Classic Symphonic elements are strong enough, but that heavy - metal sound distracts me a bit.

Iván

I already sent a PM to the other team members

Iván


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 20 2013 at 02:44
@Ivan

Actually, I said "yes you did it after my suggestion", I didn't mentioned the bandcamp recommendation on Bandcamp thread. Also, the link I posted to proove it, that's the same link what you posted.

Yes, before I suggested Via Obscura for Symphonic, I regullary recommended Via Obscura debut album (btw, this is actually the project, not really band) on Bandcamp thread.

I said all of this just because you guys think that bandcamp is more or less an useless thing, that I did a bad thing for this site with a lot of "bandcamp bands" and "bedroom magicians" what I suggested, recommended and posted at "Unsigned Bands" forum, while I think that Bandcamp now is THE best service for the new bands and the listeners/buyers who can hear all of the new tendencies in Progressive Rock and, consenquently, I did do so many of nice and accepted suggestions who are based on searching Bandcamp - although not all of my successfuly accepted suggestions went here via Bandcamp.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 20 2013 at 03:04
Originally posted by infocat

While I don't come close to listening to all of the "bandcamp bands" recommended here, I have found a couple of dozen bands on bandcamp that I enjoy and have bought CDs from.  I think bandcamp is a great place for both new and established bands to release their music.  I would also hate for a band to not be added to PA just because bandcamp is their only/primary distribution method.

Long live bandcamp!  Big smile
Clap Beer


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 20 2013 at 11:35
Originally posted by Svetonio

@Ivan

Actually, I said "yes you did it after my suggestion", I didn't mentioned the bandcamp recommendation on Bandcamp thread. Also, the link I posted to proove it, that's the same link what you posted.

Yes, before I suggested Via Obscura for Symphonic, I regullary recommended Via Obscura debut album (btw, this is actually the project, not really band) on Bandcamp thread.

I said all of this just because you guys think that bandcamp is more or less an useless thing, that I did a bad thing for this site with a lot of "bandcamp bands" and "bedroom magicians" what I suggested, recommended and posted at "Unsigned Bands" forum, while I think that Bandcamp now is THE best service for the new bands and the listeners/buyers who can hear all of the new tendencies in Progressive Rock and, consenquently, I did do so many of nice and accepted suggestions who are based on searching Bandcamp - although not all of my successfuly accepted suggestions went here via Bandcamp.

Svetonio: Nobody is saying Bandcamp is useless

A thread where names are thrown to us with absolutely no information is useless.


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 20 2013 at 19:49
Let's be VERY clear here:
 
We are NOT discussing the Bandcamp recommendations thread. We have no obligation to sift that thread looking for bands. If I find an interesting electro-gothic-techno-thrash-rumba band on Bandcamp I can use that thread to tell the world about them, state why I think they are great and discuss that with other people, I am not suggesting them for evaluation. 
 
We are discussing Bandcamp suggestions made in the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1" rel="nofollow - Suggest New Bands and Artists lounge.
Any new thread created in the Suggest New Bands and Artists lounge is a direct request to us to evaluate the band or artist for inclusion in the PA.
 
That lounge has very specific guidelines to make the suggestions process more effective: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73146&PID=3942751#3942751" rel="nofollow - Band submission procedure .
 
Fortunately Svetoni suggestions are so poor we do not have to worry about finding pictures, biographies and discographies for these bands because >90% of them are never going to be added to the database.
 
To date he has suggested 100s of bands in the Suggest New Bands and Artists lounge, 43 in the past two months. How many of those have been added to the PA? Not many. Of the last 43 suggestions? = 3. The total number of reviews and ratings for those three bands? = 1 (and that was cut'n'paste cross-posting from JMA ... gee thanks, we already owned that one)
 
Just looking at those past two months: if each band takes a minimum of 1 hour per team member to evaluate and each team is a minimum of three people that equates to 129 man-hours work - add to that the sterling efforts of Chris and the New Bands team in monitoring those threads and we are looking at 150 man-hours effort for no real gain for the PA. If we had to pay minimum UK wage for that we'd be signing a wage bill of a thousand Euros (and everyone here is worth much more than minimum wage).
 
Two months of submissions = €1,000 for one review that we owned anyway. Ouch
 
Frankly, that is not good enough.
 
A rough guess of the total number of suggestions he has made is >500 - that would be 1,500 man-hours wasted effort  ... just so he can crow about iamthemorning and Via Obscura. Somehow this does not seem worth the effort.
So, thanks but no thanks.
 


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 00:30
@Dean

This is the list of the bands and solo artists that added to The Prog Archives of my suggestions at the last 3-4 months. 
As it may be necessery sometimes that eval process takes longer, I have indicated these my successful suggestions as *suggested earlier* as well. Thought, all of the bands and solo artists on the list are added to PA of my suggestions at the last 3 - 4 months. 
Maybe I forget to mentioned some band, but I know you'll not mind.


1) No Ticket (crossover prog) 

2) Ontofield (crossover prog)

3) Omnipresent (crossover prog)

4) Mark Miller (crossover prog)

5) The Twenty Committee (crossover prog) (suggested earlier)

6) Mother's Cake ( crossover prog) (suggested earlier)

7) Of Sound Mind (crossover prog) (suggested earlier)

8) The Prognosis (crossover prog)

9) Babadag (prog folk)

10) Camelias Garden ( prog folk) (suggested earlier)

11) Xenograft (eclectic)  (suggested earlier)

12) Purge Solenoid (eclectic) (suggested earlier)

13) Good NightOwl (eclectic)

14) A Cosmic Trail (heavy prog)

15) Role of the Observer (heavy prog)

16) Atlas Volt (heavy prog)

17) Michael Zucker (heavy prog) (suggested earlier)

18) Cinicism Management (heavy prog) (suggested earlier)

19) Black Market Sorotonin (heavy prog)

20) Means End (progressive metal)

21) Harvest (progressive metal) (suggested earlier)

22) Riddle House (experimental / post metal)

23) Kovlo (post/math)

24) Years Of Rice And Salt ( post/math) (suggested earlier)

25) Sennen (NL) (post/math) (suggested earlier)

26) WhyOceans (post/math) (suggested earlier)

27) Hua Lun (post/math) (suggested earlier)

28) Blim (psyche/space)

29) Mind! (psych/space)

30) In Zaire (psych/space)

31) The Invisible Band! (psych/space) (suggested earlier)

32) One Of These Days & Thee Heavy Random Tone Colour (psych/space)

33) Snovi (psych/space)

34) Fairuz Derin Bulut (psych/space)

35) Napatista (psych/space) 

36) The Redlesham Forest Incident ( psych/space)

37) The Outerspace Milkmen (psych/space)

38) Fotosputnik (krautrock)

39) Killed On X-Mass (krautrock) (suggested earlier)

40) Dolorosa (krautrock) (suggested earlier)

41) OnYou (krautrock) (suggested earlier)

42) Goldbug (RIO/avant)

43) Tigress And U-Fraidees (RIO/avant)

44) Ultra Zook (RIO/avant)

45) Ukandanz (RIO/avant)

46) Jinete Azul ( jazz-rock/fusion)

47) Gis Maj Es (jazz-rock/fusion)

48) Mickylee (jazz-rock/fusion)

49) Vanderson (progressive electronic)

50) ComputerChemist (progressive electronic)

51) Neon Leaves (neo prog)



Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 03:30
The way I regard this situation is a bit different from others I guess. That we have people that suggest many new possible artists that merits a check is for me natural when regarding the following from the bleeding obvious department:

This sites stated vision:
PROG ARCHIVES intends to be the most complete and powerful http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp" rel="nofollow - progressive rock resource.

And mission statement:

The Prog Archives Web site Project came out from a common dream of a small group of fanatic progressive rock music collectors who decided to develop a WEB SITE for the online progressive rock music community, with the goal of providing extensive Progressive Rock Music information, as well as interaction features for the prog surfers.

We have been collecting this DATA for quite some time, but we are far from finished. There are still plenty of old records to be remembered and added to the site, plus all the new creations that are being made. We not only welcome any feedback you may have about the site, but any help you can provide us.

We appreciate your support, and your feed back is very important to us, cause we are always looking forward to become... We have a small staff, and all of us have a primary job, so we work our asses off to get the whole thing up and running on our spare time.

Whether you are an artist, producer, recording engineer, record label or just a fan and don't see a record that you feel should be in this web page, please contact us. We welcome any chance to improve this site.


---

The problem is that the site's internal mechanisms as they are today are too work intensive to handle the influx of suggestions. Which for me suggests that there are three solutions to the problem:

Either altering the site's vision and mission statement to regulate the influx of suggestions

Or altering the site's internal mechanisms so that the site can function in a manner that enables it to follow up on the vision and mission statement currently active.

Or opting to live in a situation with permanent extensive backlogs.

This is regarding the situation from a business oriented point of view of course. Much the same as when a business is too successful to cope with incoming orders - you either expand, narrow down your field of interests or tell your customers that there will be an extensive backlog due to high demand. As far as I'm concerned telling some of your customers to take their business elsewhere tends to be a less than optimal solution, but it kind of works as a short term fix - until the next demanding customer comes along.


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The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 04:20
Originally posted by Svetonio

@Dean

This is the list of the bands and solo artists that added to The Prog Archives of my suggestions at the last 3-4 months. 
As it may be necessery sometimes that eval process takes longer, I have indicated these my successful suggestions as *suggested earlier* as well. Thought, all of the bands and solo artists on the list are added to PA of my suggestions at the last 3 - 4 months. 
Maybe I forget to mentioned some band, but I know you'll not mind.

 
How many suggestions in total? How many rejects?
 
How many of those did you provide biographies for? How many of those did you provide full discographies for (track listings, track times, musician line-ups, release info)?
 
How many of those have you written a review for?
 
Sorry Svetoni, you are too much hard work. You suggest too many bands that do not get added, you overload our teams and do not provide us any information.
 
Do you not understand that people are complaining about your suggestions?
 


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 04:38
Originally posted by Windhawk

The way I regard this situation is a bit different from others I guess. That we have people that suggest many new possible artists that merits a check is for me natural when regarding the following from the bleeding obvious department:

This sites stated vision:
PROG ARCHIVES intends to be the most complete and powerful http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp" rel="nofollow - progressive rock resource.

And mission statement:

The Prog Archives Web site Project came out from a common dream of a small group of fanatic progressive rock music collectors who decided to develop a WEB SITE for the online progressive rock music community, with the goal of providing extensive Progressive Rock Music information, as well as interaction features for the prog surfers.

We have been collecting this DATA for quite some time, but we are far from finished. There are still plenty of old records to be remembered and added to the site, plus all the new creations that are being made. We not only welcome any feedback you may have about the site, but any help you can provide us.

We appreciate your support, and your feed back is very important to us, cause we are always looking forward to become... We have a small staff, and all of us have a primary job, so we work our asses off to get the whole thing up and running on our spare time.

Whether you are an artist, producer, recording engineer, record label or just a fan and don't see a record that you feel should be in this web page, please contact us. We welcome any chance to improve this site.


---

The problem is that the site's internal mechanisms as they are today are too work intensive to handle the influx of suggestions. Which for me suggests that there are three solutions to the problem:

Either altering the site's vision and mission statement to regulate the influx of suggestions

Or altering the site's internal mechanisms so that the site can function in a manner that enables it to follow up on the vision and mission statement currently active.

Or opting to live in a situation with permanent extensive backlogs.

This is regarding the situation from a business oriented point of view of course. Much the same as when a business is too successful to cope with incoming orders - you either expand, narrow down your field of interests or tell your customers that there will be an extensive backlog due to high demand. As far as I'm concerned telling some of your customers to take their business elsewhere tends to be a less than optimal solution, but it kind of works as a short term fix - until the next demanding customer comes along.
The site is not here for amateur and unsigned artists. The definition of those has changed with the advent of self-release sites like BandCamp and SoundCloud, amateur and unsigned artist can even have albums sold on Amazon and iTunes now. The PA Mission Statement was never intended to be applied to amateur and unsigned artists, that's why we have http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=71" rel="nofollow - this section of the forum - seperate from the PA database.
 
We do not have to change the mission statement, the additions process or live with a backlog. We need to apply them more rigidly and actually stay on mission.
 
 


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 05:06
Originally posted by Dean

The site is not here for amateur and unsigned artists. The definition of those has changed with the advent of self-release sites like BandCamp and SoundCloud, amateur and unsigned artist can even have albums sold on Amazon and iTunes now. The PA Mission Statement was never intended to be applied to amateur and unsigned artists, that's why we have http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=71" rel="nofollow - this section of the forum - seperate from the PA database.
 
We do not have to change the mission statement, the additions process or live with a backlog. We need to apply them more rigidly and actually stay on mission.
 
 



http://simonrailton.bandcamp.com/album/here-it-is" rel="nofollow - Signed artist - http://elephantsofscotland.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - unsigned artist


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The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 05:09
I see your logic Olav, but what it would entail would amount to a huge cataloguing site like Discogs, where something like 80 percent of it's listings reside in the shadow. 
I don't think there's an upcoming Prog Revolution on the horizon any time soon - the amount of members actually visiting this site has always seemed pretty set to me, that is as far back as I can remember. People come and go, but we're still basically the same amount of users, and I don't see any real proof of them talking about these artists. 

And personally, I'd like to see the site remain in it's current form - without having to hire all kinds of extra hands who would do nothing but add artists that worldwide maybe 50 people know the names of.


-------------
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 05:09

Yeah. Difficult isn't it. Don't make it more difficult.



-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 06:02
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

I see your logic Olav, but what it would entail would amount to a huge cataloguing site like Discogs, where something like 80 percent of it's listings reside in the shadow. 
I don't think there's an upcoming Prog Revolution on the horizon any time soon - the amount of members actually visiting this site has always seemed pretty set to me, that is as far back as I can remember. People come and go, but we're still basically the same amount of users, and I don't see any real proof of them talking about these artists. 

And personally, I'd like to see the site remain in it's current form - without having to hire all kinds of extra hands who would do nothing but add artists that worldwide maybe 50 people know the names of.

Very well said. I see Olav's point too especially reference Eastern Block bands that fell through the cracks but in terms of Bandcamp suggestions,no, and the number that disappear into obscurity once added to the database with no reviews no current follow up after one album addition. You see with legit valid additions normally there is a history that lends to numerous member's input, review and updates. The vast majority of those have been done and dusted, even controversial additions.So again are they worth it or does it threaten the credibility of the site? I just think some common sense needs to prevail for what it's worth.


-------------
Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 07:12
For limiting suggestions somewhat, documenting that a band selling their music through Soundcloud or Bandcamp also use other sales channels and/or also have their music available in physical format might eliminate some suggestions.
I do find that the majority of so called Bandcamp bands actually do so however, except some of the free releases. http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8467" rel="nofollow - This band for instance, have their album for free on Bandcamp. But visit their facebook page, and you'll see that they have an actual CD to sell too. But it might be an idea to ask those who suggest artists to document that this is the case.

Still, it all boils down to whether or not a band wants to be signed I guess. I.e. if they want to sign a contract for a distribution and consignment sales deal with someone or not. A monetary rather than a quality dividing line in terms of how the music business works today.

As far as credibility goes - http://www.metal-archives.com/" rel="nofollow - metal archives have 10 times the number of artists that progarchives has. At least 90% of their database will forever lie in the shadows of obscurity. Probably even more. Has this affected the credibility of that site, just to draw a comparison to a similar site?


-------------
The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 07:54
Originally posted by Windhawk

For limiting suggestions somewhat, documenting that a band selling their music through Soundcloud or Bandcamp also use other sales channels and/or also have their music available in physical format might eliminate some suggestions.
I do find that the majority of so called Bandcamp bands actually do so however, except some of the free releases. http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8467" rel="nofollow - This band for instance, have their album for free on Bandcamp. But visit their facebook page, and you'll see that they have an actual CD to sell too. But it might be an idea to ask those who suggest artists to document that this is the case.
Originally posted by Dean

I strongly believe we should not be expending too much energy on these bands. If they have a web-presence outside Bandcamp and the ubiquitous social network channels then (and only then) should we look at them, but that should be at the discretion of the respective Sub-genre Teams, not as a golden rule that they must follow.
In other words they should have a web-presence that is not solely created by themselves.
 
Shouldn't that be enough?
 
If an artist has a following and/or a fan-base then this web-presence will be there and other sites will create unsolicited content.
Originally posted by Windhawk


Still, it all boils down to whether or not a band wants to be signed I guess. I.e. if they want to sign a contract for a distribution and consignment sales deal with someone or not. A monetary rather than a quality dividing line in terms of how the music business works today.
I cannot express in words why I think this is missing the point, I know, I've been trying for the past six years to express it. I believe there is a difference between amatuer and aspiring that has nothing to do with any monetary considerations.
Originally posted by Windhawk



As far as credibility goes - http://www.metal-archives.com/" rel="nofollow - metal archives have 10 times the number of artists that progarchives has. At least 90% of their database will forever lie in the shadows of obscurity. Probably even more. Has this affected the credibility of that site, just to draw a comparison to a similar site?
Do you mean compared to Metal Music Archives? Encyclopaedia Metallum has 92,000 bands compared to MMA's 13,000? (to PA's 8,000)  You cannot compare a Metal site with a Prog site - that's specious.


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 16:07
The problem is this



1) No Ticket (crossover prog) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings

2) Ontofield (crossover prog) 30 reviews or ratings

3) Omnipresent (crossover prog) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings

4) Mark Miller (crossover prog)  0 Reviews - 0 Ratings

5) The Twenty Committee (crossover prog) (suggested earlier) 24 reviews and ratings, but the  band sent us MP3 of the album and asked us to review it, which some of us did with pleasurte

6) Mother's Cake ( crossover prog) (suggested earlier) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings

7) Of Sound Mind (crossover prog) (suggested earlier) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings

8) The Prognosis (crossover prog) 0 Reviews - 1 Ratings

9) Babadag (prog folk) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings

10) Camelias Garden ( prog folk) (suggested earlier)  3 Reviews - 81 Ratings ???

11) Xenograft (eclectic)  (suggested earlier) 2 Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums

12) Purge Solenoid (eclectic) (suggested earlier) 0 Reviews - 1 Rating (Robert in order to have at least 1 review)

13) Good NightOwl (eclectic) 0 Reviews - 5 Ratings - 5 albums  (All 5 stars by a Daniel Lewis CUPPS the one man band )

14) A Cosmic Trail (heavy prog) 4 Reviews - 2 Ratings - 2 albums 

15) Role of the Observer (heavy prog) 0 Reviews - 1 Ratings - 2 albums 

16) Atlas Volt (heavy prog) 1 Reviews - 1 Ratings 

17) Michael Zucker (heavy prog) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 24 albums

18) Cinicism Management (heavy prog) (suggested earlier) Cinicism Management Reviews - 0 Ratings

19) Black Market Sorotonin (heavy prog) Reviews - 0 Ratings

20) Means End (progressive metal) Reviews - 1 Ratings

21) Harvest (progressive metal) (suggested earlier) 0 Reviews 1 Rating (Dean showed me I had mistaken them with the Spanish Neo Prog Band with the same name that has many more reviews)

22) Riddle House (experimental / post metal) Reviews - 0 Ratings

23) Kovlo (post/math) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 4 albums

24) Years Of Rice And Salt ( post/math) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums

25) Sennen (NL) (post/math) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings

26) WhyOceans (post/math) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings

27) Hua Lun (post/math) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings

28) Blim (psyche/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings

29) Mind! (psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings

30) In Zaire (psych/space) Reviews - 2 Ratings

31) The Invisible Band! (psych/space) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 3 albums

32) One Of These Days & Thee Heavy Random Tone Colour (psych/space) Reviews - 1 Ratings

33) Snovi (psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings

34) Fairuz Derin Bulut (psych/space) Reviews - 3 Ratings - 3 albums (All 5 stars and by the same member)

35) Napatista (psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums

36) The Redlesham Forest Incident ( psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings

37) The Outerspace Milkmen (psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums

38) Fotosputnik (krautrock) Reviews - 0 Ratings

39) Killed On X-Mass (krautrock) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 3 albums

40) Dolorosa (krautrock) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums

41) OnYou (krautrock) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings

42) Goldbug (RIO/avant) Reviews - 1 Rating (By a guy who has 435 ratings w/o review)

43) Tigress And U-Fraidees (RIO/avant) Reviews - 0 Ratings

44) Ultra Zook (RIO/avant) 2 Reviews - 1 Rating - 2 albums

45) Ukandanz (RIO/avant) Reviews - 1 Ratings

46) Jinete Azul ( jazz-rock/fusion) Reviews - 1 Ratings

47) Gis Maj Es (jazz-rock/fusion) Reviews - 0 Ratings

48) Mickylee (jazz-rock/fusion) Reviews - 0 Ratings

49) Vanderson (progressive electronic)  0Reviews - 0 Ratings - 7 albums

50) ComputerChemist (progressive electronic) Reviews - 8 Ratings - 7 albums

51) Neon Leaves (neo prog) Reviews - 0 Ratings

Do you see the pattern?

We're not helping anybody

- Not the band, because only 2 or 3 albums have a decent number of reviews.
- Not the PA visitor, who really doesn't seem to care for this bands.
- Not the site, because we have more bands without reviews than ever.

But to be honest, what pisses me more is that the guy who suggested all this bands, doesn't have a single review or a rating.

That's the main problem IMHO

Iván


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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 16:33
^ Speaks volumes...very poor.Perhaps an admin can tell Svetonio, no bio,album links,no reviews( retrospect), no deal. It does affect the integrity of the site

-------------
Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 16:40
Both Dean, Keishiro and I have talked to Svetonio about this, both in his threads as well as in private. I hope he has come around and maybe now understands better the strains that this infernal continuous suggestion stream has put on the teams.

-------------
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 19:47
The thing with presenting tables like this to a suspicious soul like me is once I see anomalies my curiosity is piqued, and that is seldom going to end well.
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

The problem is this
1) No Ticket (crossover prog) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings
2) Ontofield (crossover prog) 30 reviews or ratings - now 2 reviews and 8 ratings
3) Omnipresent (crossover prog) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings
4) Mark Miller (crossover prog)  0 Reviews - 0 Ratings
5) The Twenty Committee (crossover prog) (suggested earlier) 24 reviews and ratings, but the  band sent us MP3 of the album and asked us to review it, which some of us did with pleasurte
6) Mother's Cake ( crossover prog) (suggested earlier) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings
7) Of Sound Mind (crossover prog) (suggested earlier) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings
8) The Prognosis (crossover prog) 0 Reviews - 1 Ratings
9) Babadag (prog folk) 0 Reviews - 0 Ratings
10) Camelias Garden ( prog folk) (suggested earlier)  3 Reviews - 81 Ratings ??? - now 3 reviews and 24 ratings
11) Xenograft (eclectic)  (suggested earlier) 2 Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums
12) Purge Solenoid (eclectic) (suggested earlier) 0 Reviews - 1 Rating (Robert in order to have at least 1 review)
13) Good NightOwl (eclectic) 0 Reviews - 5 Ratings - 5 albums  (All 5 stars by a Daniel Lewis CUPPS the one man band )
14) A Cosmic Trail (heavy prog) 4 Reviews - 2 Ratings - 2 albums 
15) Role of the Observer (heavy prog) 0 Reviews - 1 Ratings - 2 albums 
16) Atlas Volt (heavy prog) 1 Reviews - 1 Ratings 
17) Michael Zucker (heavy prog) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 24 albums
18) Cinicism Management (heavy prog) (suggested earlier) Cinicism Management Reviews - 0 Ratings
19) Black Market Sorotonin (heavy prog) Reviews - 0 Ratings
20) Means End (progressive metal) Reviews - 1 Ratings
21) Harvest (progressive metal) (suggested earlier) 17 reviews or ratings <- Wrong band Iván, this Harvest has 1 rating, 0 reviews.
22) Riddle House (experimental / post metal) Reviews - 0 Ratings
23) Kovlo (post/math) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 4 albums
24) Years Of Rice And Salt ( post/math) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums
25) Sennen (NL) (post/math) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings
26) WhyOceans (post/math) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Rating
27) Hua Lun (post/math) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings
28) Blim (psyche/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings
29) Mind! (psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings
30) In Zaire (psych/space) Reviews - 2 Ratings
31) The Invisible Band! (psych/space) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 3 albums
32) One Of These Days & Thee Heavy Random Tone Colour (psych/space) Reviews - 1 Ratings
33) Snovi (psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings
34) Fairuz Derin Bulut (psych/space) Reviews - 3 Ratings - 3 albums (All 5 stars and by the same member)
35) Napatista (psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums
36) The Redlesham Forest Incident ( psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings
37) The Outerspace Milkmen (psych/space) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums
38) Fotosputnik (krautrock) Reviews - 0 Ratings
39) Killed On X-Mass (krautrock) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 3 albums
40) Dolorosa (krautrock) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings - 2 albums
41) OnYou (krautrock) (suggested earlier) Reviews - 0 Ratings
42) Goldbug (RIO/avant) Reviews - 1 Rating (By a guy who has 435 ratings w/o review)
43) Tigress And U-Fraidees (RIO/avant) Reviews - 0 Ratings
44) Ultra Zook (RIO/avant) 2 Reviews - 1 Rating - 2 albums
45) Ukandanz (RIO/avant) Reviews - 1 Ratings
46) Jinete Azul ( jazz-rock/fusion) Reviews - 1 Ratings
47) Gis Maj Es (jazz-rock/fusion) Reviews - 0 Ratings
48) Mickylee (jazz-rock/fusion) Reviews - 0 Ratings
49) Vanderson (progressive electronic)  0Reviews - 0 Ratings - 7 albums
50) ComputerChemist (progressive electronic) Reviews - 8 Ratings - 7 albums
51) Neon Leaves (neo prog) Reviews - 0 Ratings
 
Stern Smile The number of ratings for Ontofield and Camelias Garden have just taken a very dramatic drop. This is nothing to do with the artists. Once two or more Collabs review an album it enters the chart of the year and becomes a target for rating abusers. I am pretty sure that if collabs had not reviewed those albums then the total number of ratings for both those albums would be 1 or even 0.
 
Bottom line is >500 artists suggested, 51 artists added, amount of interest in those 51 artists = fu*k all.
Originally posted by Svetonio

Oh no! I am suggesting something because of the same reason why for example I am voting on PA polls - just for fun Cool  I dont expect any adds, but if will be some - thats fine. I am not a musician or roadie from the bands I suggested; so I really dont care are they gonna be added or not. 
( http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75000&PID=4019107#4019107" rel="nofollow - Sade for Post/Math Rock )
Thanks for your assistance Svetoni, but please... enough is enough. You've had some fun, but the fun never started for us. So I am asking you very politely to stop suggesting bands. You can continue to dick about in the Bandcamp Recommendations thread to your hearts content because you've already broken that so no one bothers even reading it anymore.
 


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 20:50
Hey, you noticed the interrogations signs after Camelias Garden, 3 reviews and 84 ratings sounded fishy.

BTW: Good call with Harvest, the name sounded familiar (Not only for the label), I believe there's a third band with the same name.

Iván


-------------


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 20:54
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Hey, you noticed the interrogations signs after Camelias Garden, 3 reviews and 84 ratings sounded fishy.

BTW: Good call with Harvest, the name sounded familiar (Not only for the label), I believe there's a third band with the same name.

Iván
Yup - two hours deleting bogus ratings and suspending people with multiple accounts. Not quite what I had planned for a Saturday night.

-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 22:58
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

 
(...)

But to be honest, what pisses me more is that the guy who suggested all this bands, doesn't have a single review or a rating.

That's the main problem IMHO

Iván

This can't be a "problem" at all because that lack of my reviews is nothing against the PA' rules. There's not a rule that a suggester of new band ought to write a review for them - a suggestion doesn't have to be delivered with a review.
The same thing is with rating the albums. 
Also, I don't  have the talent to write esseys on the music I listening to, not even in my native language. As far as I know, you don't like ameteurism in any form and you wouldn't like to read my reviews.

 




Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 23:15
Originally posted by Dean

(...)
Originally posted by Svetonio

Oh no! I am suggesting something because of the same reason why for example I am voting on PA polls - just for fun Cool  I dont expect any adds, but if will be some - thats fine. I am not a musician or roadie from the bands I suggested; so I really dont care are they gonna be added or not. 
( http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75000&PID=4019107#4019107" rel="nofollow - Sade for Post/Math Rock )
(...)      You've had some fun, but the fun never started for us. 
 
 
PA is not the military formation and I'm not the servicemen. Of course I do all of this for fun!









Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 23:45
Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

 
(...)

But to be honest, what pisses me more is that the guy who suggested all this bands, doesn't have a single review or a rating.

That's the main problem IMHO

Iván

This can't be a "problem" at all because that lack of my reviews is nothing against the PA' rules. There's not a rule that a suggester of new band ought to write a review for them - a suggestion doesn't have to be delivered with a review.
The same thing is with rating the albums. 
Also, I don't  have the talent to write esseys on the music I listening to, not even in my native language. As far as I know, you don't like ameteurism in any form and you wouldn't like to read my reviews.

Not against the rules, but for me a great problem.

We do things here because we love Prog, if we suggest a band it's because we are convinced that they shoud be here and we don't want to see them without reviews.

Every person who suggests a band, wants to be the first one to review it, you only want them to be added and after that, you never mention or care about them.

We all are amateurs here, and proud of this

Amateur comes from the Latin word   http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/amatorem#Latin" rel="nofollow - amātōrem  (Lover), amateur is a person who does something fort love, not for money.

English is not my native language, I'm from Perú.

But I believe that if you suggest a band (without any info), we dig for the info, we contact the band for info you never provide, create a bio from nothing.  sometimes create photos from pieces of of other photos, we add all the albums, we take a long time and effort, the least you can do is make a review.

It seems like you have some interest in more Bandcamp bands being added and that's the only thing that matters for you, as a fact you do the same in other forums

http://www.progforums.com/punforum/viewtopic.php?id=1063" rel="nofollow - http://www.progforums.com/punforum/viewtopic.php?id=1063

I'm maybe too honest for my sake, but I can't respect that, it seems like we are working for you because you seem to have an interest in bandcamp bands being added.

Originally posted by Svetonio

 Of couse I do all of this for fun.

Sorry, but I don't buy this statement.

Iván


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 23:56
And finally, I'd like to state my own opinion on all of this. 
Simply put, some people have been depressed too many times when I suggested a nice and 100% prog act that they themselfs would like to be suggested by them, but they did not do it. 
That's the "main problem" with Svetonio's suggestions; an ordinary human jealousy...


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 21 2013 at 23:59
LOLBig smileWacko

 I rest my case


-------------
Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 00:05
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

(...) we contact the band (...) sometimes create photos from pieces of of other photos, we add all the albums, we take a long time and effort, (...)
Of course you do that; after all, that's the biggest reason why you are The Special Collaborators, the members of The Teams.
That's pretty normal thing that e.g. The Special Collaborator (as the representative of the PA) contact the band and to ask the band for a detail which wasn't already published.











Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 00:55


Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

(...) we contact the band (...) sometimes create photos from pieces of of other photos, we add all the albums, we take a long time and effort, (...)
Of course you do that; after all, that's the biggest reason why you are The Special Collaborators, the members of The Teams.
That's pretty normal thing that e.g. The Special Collaborator (as the repesentative of the PA) contact the band and to ask the band for a detail which wasn't already published.

No pal we normally don't have to do this.

People who suggest a band, have the courtesy to give us enough information to make our search easy, we only have to listen the music and verify.

As a fact, they ask us to let them write the bio, they add albums, check the additions for errors,. etc and they (neither us) gain a dime or anything except the ´ride of a job well done)

You throw names and expect us to do all the work....And I'm sure you have some interest in Bandcamp

We do more than what Dean or even M@X ever asked us, because we love this site.

The reason we were promoted is because we were willing to help since we joined  

PA members  don't start to work because they are promoted, in ProgArchives members are promoted because they started to work the day they joined.

Originally posted by Svetonio

And finally, I'd like to state my own opinion on all of this. 
Simply put, some people have been depressed too many times when I suggested a nice and 100% prog act that they themselfs would like to be suggested by them, but they did not do it. 
That's the "main problem" with Svetonio's suggestions; an ordinary human jealousy..


LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

ROFLMAO: Believe me, nobody is jealous of your suggestions, we are more happy making the addition possible with research and effort than suggesting them

In Symphonic, this year we have accepted 65% of the bands suggested, all the rest except one were moved to another team who accepted them.

Our percentage with your suggestions is lower than 1%

No the problem with Svetonio suggestions is that they are not suggestions, just names and a link.




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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 01:54
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M



(...)

Originally posted by Svetonio

And finally, I'd like to state my own opinion on all of this. 
Simply put, some people have been depressed too many times when I suggested a nice and 100% prog act that they themselfs would like to be suggested by them, but they did not do it. 
That's the "main problem" with Svetonio's suggestions; an ordinary human jealousy..


LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

ROFLMAO: Believe me, nobody is jealous of your suggestions, we are more happy making the addition possible with research and effort than suggeting them. (...)






Not an ordinary human jealousy as I stated? then it's not good actually, because then it comes to the group narcissism as per definition.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_narcissism" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_narcissism















Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 05:34
This thread is going to end up (as with many others) as a kind of long rally that you see in men's tennis majors these days - very long and back and forth. At least they end at some point. This one never will.

I would suggest locking this and simply either changing the rules, suspension, or ignore all of the suggestions. Something positive.


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In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent.


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 05:46
Originally posted by Svetonio

And finally, I'd like to state my own opinion on all of this. 
Simply put, some people have been depressed too many times when I suggested a nice and 100% prog act that they themselfs would like to be suggested by them, but they did not do it. 
That's the "main problem" with Svetonio's suggestions; an ordinary human jealousy...


Confused I'm not entirely sure what makes you arrive at this surreal conclusion, but let me be completely honest with you when I say that I am very jealous of all the people dodging all of your suggestions. The main folks around here who've been dealing with them are fed up. Pure and simple. Now you can continue to defend your "lone gun man ways in an unjust world" - or maybe you should start concerning yourself with all of the other aspects of this site. Like fx the music already found hereWink


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 05:49
Originally posted by lazland


I would suggest locking this and simply either changing the rules, suspension, or ignore all of the suggestions. Something positive.
As far as I am concerned the thread ended here:
Originally posted by Dean

Thanks for your assistance Svetoni, but please... enough is enough. (...) So I am asking you very politely to stop suggesting bands. (...).
I have no desire to do that by force, but I can if need be.
 


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 07:55
^ Hope this issue can get completed without anybody getting hurt.

-------------
http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 10:29
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by lazland


I would suggest locking this and simply either changing the rules, suspension, or ignore all of the suggestions. Something positive.
As far as I am concerned the thread ended here:
Originally posted by Dean

Thanks for your assistance Svetoni, but please... enough is enough. (...) So I am asking you very politely to stop suggesting bands. (...).
I have no desire to do that by force, but I can if need be.
 


"I want you to be nice until it's time to not be nice"


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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 13:52
Originally posted by lazland

This thread is going to end up (as with many others) as a kind of long rally that you see in men's tennis majors these days - very long and back and forth. At least they end at some point. This one never will.

I would suggest locking this and simply either changing the rules, suspension, or ignore all of the suggestions. Something positive.

Don't worry Laz, it has ended for me

We just received a band that has been kicked from Eclectic and Heavy and now it's in our hands, that's what bothers, I want to send them to PR but most surely we will have to bother the Crossover friends who are overload with work.

We can take a time, because lately we don't have many suggestions, but some teams are really busy

Giving the artists a false illusion, when IMHO that band would be PR at the most is a mistake.

Cheers

Iván


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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 15:11
^ Crossover sometimes ends up as the proverbial 'last chance saloon' and cos of this the PR route then lies with the Crossover Team to find an SC to table a bid to Admin. Not easy and I know there are at least 12 artists awaiting someone to motivate the bands to Admin. I think the original ' suggester' should motivate to Admin not the Team SC's as nine times out of ten they have no emotional attachment to the artists concerned or knowledge other than an evaluation. 

Also the ' quality' of a lot of bands submitted of late seems to have deteriorated, probs the bandcamp ones, which I am sure covers all genres


-------------
Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 17:16
Originally posted by Chris S

^ Crossover sometimes ends up as the proverbial 'last chance saloon' and cos of this the PR route then lies with the Crossover Team to find an SC to table a bid to Admin. Not easy and I know there are at least 12 artists awaiting someone to motivate the bands to Admin. I think the original ' suggester' should motivate to Admin not the Team SC's as nine times out of ten they have no emotional attachment to the artists concerned or knowledge other than an evaluation. 
 
It requires a SC to nominate an artist for PR, and since most suggestions come from forum senior members they simply won't be able to ''motivate'' these suggestions to Admin. In any case, it is my understanding that teams should not ''vote'' for a move to PR. If an artist doesn't fit in any full prog genre it should be rejected... if a SC then wants to make a case for PR then that is up to that individual. Of course in some circumstances a team might decide between them that an artist is a good candidate for PR, in which case a proposal can be made. But if I remember rightly only exceptional cases, household names with a decent prog legacy, will get into PR so I don't think we should be talking in terms of 12 artists awaiting someone to nominate them (only 2 artists added in PR this year). That's just my reading of the situation though.  
 
Originally posted by Chris S


Also the ' quality' of a lot of bands submitted of late seems to have deteriorated, probs the bandcamp ones, which I am sure covers all genres
 
Quality is not a criterion as far as I'm aware. If it's prog it's prog, surely? By the way, this suggestion isn't a bandcamp artist, and it is of the highest quality imo. Nonetheless it was rejected:
 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93725" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93725
http://progfreak.com/Jess-And-The-Ancient-Ones-157127.html?path=pa/crossover_prog" rel="nofollow - http://progfreak.com/Jess-And-The-Ancient-Ones-157127.html?path=pa/crossover_prog
 


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 17:44
Originally posted by seventhsojourn

 
It requires a SC to nominate an artist for PR, and since most suggestions come from forum senior members they simply won't be able to ''motivate'' these suggestions to Admin. In any case, it is my understanding that teams should not ''vote'' for a move to PR. If an artist doesn't fit in any full prog genre it should be rejected... if a SC then wants to make a case for PR then that is up to that individual. Of course in some circumstances a team might decide between them that an artist is a good candidate for PR, in which case a proposal can be made. But if I remember rightly only exceptional cases, household names with a decent prog legacy, will get into PR so I don't think we should be talking in terms of 12 artists awaiting someone to nominate them (only 2 artists added in PR this year). That's just my reading of the situation though.  
 
Originally posted by Chris S


Also the ' quality' of a lot of bands submitted of late seems to have deteriorated, probs the bandcamp ones, which I am sure covers all genres
 
Quality is not a criterion as far as I'm aware. If it's prog it's prog, surely? By the way, this suggestion isn't a bandcamp artist, and it is of the highest quality imo. Nonetheless it was rejected:
 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93725" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93725
http://progfreak.com/Jess-And-The-Ancient-Ones-157127.html?path=pa/crossover_prog" rel="nofollow - http://progfreak.com/Jess-And-The-Ancient-Ones-157127.html?path=pa/crossover_prog
 
[/QUOTE]

I understand the PR Rules that is why I suggested they be revisited. PR evaluations come about as a result that they do not fit the genre in question but members feel they should be considered for PR. I think the person who initially suggested them for PA inclusion should pick up the reins if they fall into a PR situation by way of evaluations. That is merely my opinion on the matter.


\Re quality - You are right prog is prog, certainly. However I firmly believe that the overall quality of recent suggestions has taken a turn for the worse, this is no slight on yourself or anyone else, before leaving the Crossover Team I felt the quality of bands had taken a nosedive in general especially bandcamp suggestions. The main premise for this thread is bandcamp related so the PR issue more of a side topic and for another discussion perhaps. And I stress is in no way directed you guys for doing such an excellent job.


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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 17:49
If the PR nominations were open to everyone, can you imagine how many suggestions the Admin would receive? 


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 17:58
Originally posted by seventhsojourn

If the PR nominations were open to everyone, can you imagine how many suggestions the Admin would receive? 

Good point but again I am only referring to Crossover at the moment. The process takes time for bands to even end up in PR limbo. 12 in about 2  years maybe...have not done the math on PFreak...but why this reference came about on this thread is that I feel the people suggesting a band should do the leg work like Svetonio re bandcamp. You may well be aware of how many PR artists are in limbo across all genre teams, I can only speak for Crossover when I left about a month ago. So I don't think Admin would be inundated, just a hunch, and who says the original suggestor will propose them anyway. They might have moved on from PA by the time a PR status is flagged back. And if they have to do it through an SC as in the existing rules, so be it, it will just take longer that's all Smile


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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 17:59
^ Yes, Exactly Chris.

Not known enough about PR suggestion because I'm a Admin "newbie" but basically PR evaluation is quite a tough work (a flood of artists have prog-ish seasoning, whilst we should research their historical background, discuss again and again, and settle finally ... with tremendous energy needed!) that experienced / appreciated members in PA (aka SCs) should taken them to AZ individually and carefully.


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http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 19:25
Originally posted by Chris S

^ Crossover sometimes ends up as the proverbial 'last chance saloon' and cos of this the PR route then lies with the Crossover Team to find an SC to table a bid to Admin. Not easy and I know there are at least 12 artists awaiting someone to motivate the bands to Admin. I think the original ' suggester' should motivate to Admin not the Team SC's as nine times out of ten they have no emotional attachment to the artists concerned or knowledge other than an evaluation. 
I agree that these bands end up in Crossover as their last best hope for addition, but PR is not the next option on the list - rejection is. If the band is not suitable for Xover and all the other teams have rejected them then reject them too. The appearance of a PR worthy band is very rare, and certainly should not be as high 6 a year.
Originally posted by Chris S


I understand the PR Rules that is why I suggested they be revisited. PR evaluations come about as a result that they do not fit the genre in question but members feel they should be considered for PR. I think the person who initially suggested them for PA inclusion should pick up the reins if they fall into a PR situation by way of evaluations. That is merely my opinion on the matter.
Nope. There are good reasons for having an SC nominate the band for Prog Related, least of all is that SC has to then add the band himself, but the main one is matter of filtering. We have a strict criteria for Prog Related and the Admins judge whether the nominated artist fits the criteria and that they are right for the PA, the SC's role is a preselection process, to apply the criteria listed in the PR definition as they interpret them rather than any colloquial definition of Prog related that the person who initially suggested them may have used.
 
PR is not the place for nearly-prog bands, or hard to place prog bands - if we did that PR would be bigger than all the other subs added together. If no one has ever heard of this band then they don't belong in PR; Bandcamp artists have no place in PR and it would be very very unusual for a modern band to end up in PR unless it contained relatively well-known members of existing 100% prog bands AND was making music that had some Prog influence.

Originally posted by Chris S

Originally posted by seventhsojourn

If the PR nominations were open to everyone, can you imagine how many suggestions the Admin would receive? 

Good point but again I am only referring to Crossover at the moment. The process takes time for bands to even end up in PR limbo. 12 in about 2  years maybe...have not done the math on PFreak...but why this reference came about on this thread is that I feel the people suggesting a band should do the leg work like Svetonio re bandcamp. You may well be aware of how many PR artists are in limbo across all genre teams, I can only speak for Crossover when I left about a month ago. So I don't think Admin would be inundated, just a hunch, and who says the original suggestor will propose them anyway. They might have moved on from PA by the time a PR status is flagged back. And if they have to do it through an SC as in the existing rules, so be it, it will just take longer that's all Smile
There is no PR limbo - either propose the band to the Admins for PR or set them as "rejected" in ProgFreak.
 
Genre Teams using the term "prog related" colloquially when evaluating an artist or band does not necessarily mean that artist or band should be proposed for Prog Related on the PA. I know when I was evaluating in Xover I'd sometimes say "sounds more prog related to me..." it didn't mean I wanted them in Prog Related, just as a band sounding "a bit symphonic" doesn't mean I would have sent them over to Iván.
 
 


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 19:37
Originally posted by seventhsojourn

Quality is not a criterion as far as I'm aware. If it's prog it's prog, surely? By the way, this suggestion isn't a bandcamp artist, and it is of the highest quality imo. Nonetheless it was rejected:
 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93725" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93725
http://progfreak.com/Jess-And-The-Ancient-Ones-157127.html?path=pa/crossover_prog" rel="nofollow - http://progfreak.com/Jess-And-The-Ancient-Ones-157127.html?path=pa/crossover_prog
 
Quality yes, but I can see why they were rightfully rejected, Psychedelic Gothic Rock isn't Prog Rock.


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 22 2013 at 20:36
Originally posted by Dean


There is no PR limbo - either propose the band to the Admins for PR or set them as "rejected" in ProgFreak.
 
Genre Teams using the term "prog related" colloquially when evaluating an artist or band does not necessarily mean that artist or band should be proposed for Prog Related on the PA. I know when I was evaluating in Xover I'd sometimes say "sounds more prog related to me..." it didn't mean I wanted them in Prog Related, just as a band sounding "a bit symphonic" doesn't mean I would have sent them over to Iván.
 
 
[/QUOTE]

Points well made Dean, maybe limbo was the wrong choice of word. Not a problem that can't be resolved, either table them on merit or reject them. The discussion got sidetracked a bit and I was highlighting ownership of suggestions mainly before hooking into a PR tangent on unresolved bands. Hope that makes sense and from what you and Chris have said, leave the process beCool


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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: September 24 2013 at 19:10
bump

(please?)


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 08:40
Originally posted by Luna

bump

(please?)
[TUBE]6E2hYDIFDIU[/TUBE]


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 16:49
^ What a complete spammerHead on wall

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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 17:36
Hitler & Genghis Khan did it their way, it isn't necessarily an attractive trait.

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Ian

Anyone who thinks Kansas is Prog get out of the room - Adolf Hitler



Posted By: Clibber Jones
Date Posted: October 23 2013 at 17:39
Hey folks, I just joined Prog Archives today!

I have to say that I am very glad there are bandcamp reviews, merely because it led me to this website, which I had never heard of before. I am so stoked to be on this forum and to listen to tons of new music.

Svetonio listed my band's "Live at Under the Couch" album as a Bandcamp Recommendation. That means a lot to me; I write all of the music for the band. Our sound is a mix of Prog rock and Minimalism. To even be considered on this forum is a big honor; we've only been playing live for a little over a year, and we are currently recording an EP.

That's my 2 cents!

If you want to hear anything from my band the Clibber Jones Ensemble, here's our website:
www.clibberjonesensemble.com

and here's our Live album:
http://clibberjonesensemble.bandcamp.com/

I suggest checking out "I Am the Avalanche".

Side note: I did not join this forum to self-promote! I am just really excited to have discovered the site.



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"Any composition (or improvisation) which remains consonant and 'regular' throughout is, for me, equivalent to watching a movie with only 'good guys' in it, or eating cottage cheese."
--Frank Zappa


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 25 2013 at 14:16
Embarrassed

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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 25 2013 at 14:53
Originally posted by Clibber Jones

Hey folks, I just joined Prog Archives today!

I have to say that I am very glad there are bandcamp reviews, merely because it led me to this website, which I had never heard of before. I am so stoked to be on this forum and to listen to tons of new music.

Svetonio listed my band's "Live at Under the Couch" album as a Bandcamp Recommendation. That means a lot to me; I write all of the music for the band. Our sound is a mix of Prog rock and Minimalism. To even be considered on this forum is a big honor; we've only been playing live for a little over a year, and we are currently recording an EP.

That's my 2 cents!

If you want to hear anything from my band the Clibber Jones Ensemble, here's our website:
www.clibberjonesensemble.com

and here's our Live album:
http://clibberjonesensemble.bandcamp.com/

I suggest checking out "I Am the Avalanche".

Side note: I did not join this forum to self-promote! I am just really excited to have discovered the site.



I just listened to it, and continuing with your other music; I like it a lot!  I haven't checked  out bandcamp suggestions that much, but using that as an indication, then yeah, definitely worth it for me. 

I'm sure I'd find lots to love, and a lot that I wouldn't like.... With any suggestions, I would hope, at least that the suggester likes the music and finds it worthwhile, and is choosy rather than just flooding the forum with them.


Posted By: Clibber Jones
Date Posted: October 27 2013 at 16:52
Thank you!

I am unsure what other posters have done, but I've listened to all of Svetonio's bandcamp suggestions and enjoyed them all!



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"Any composition (or improvisation) which remains consonant and 'regular' throughout is, for me, equivalent to watching a movie with only 'good guys' in it, or eating cottage cheese."
--Frank Zappa


Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: October 27 2013 at 17:26
I think every band that writes music that is deemed to be prog should be on the site. I personally like the attention and chances that it gives bands that have never been heard before.

It makes me happy to know that I can search and find bands on here that have only 100 fans on facebook, as many of those groups are just as good as the prog rock bands that have a solid following and labels.

I'm sure it's a lot of work but it has given me the chance to make many friends, and find great music- It is an invaluable tool.

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http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/

wtf


Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: October 27 2013 at 17:42
Originally posted by Clibber Jones

Thank you!

I am unsure what other posters have done, but I've listened to all of Svetonio's bandcamp suggestions and enjoyed them all!

How is this humanly possible?


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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 27 2013 at 17:49
Originally posted by Luna

Originally posted by Clibber Jones

Thank you!

I am unsure what other posters have done, but I've listened to all of Svetonio's bandcamp suggestions and enjoyed them all!

How is this humanly possible?

Complete nonsense



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Ian

Anyone who thinks Kansas is Prog get out of the room - Adolf Hitler



Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 27 2013 at 23:51
Originally posted by Chris S

Embarrassed
Yea, you would be ashamed.


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 28 2013 at 19:29
^ Well I don't know what it is Svetonio but you drive me nuts, so best I surf elsewhere around this great site and leave ya to bandcamp nirvana and yes my comment was out of line so I took it down....rave on.

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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 01:49
Originally posted by Chris S

^ Well I don't know what it is Svetonio but you drive me nuts, so best I surf elsewhere around this great site and leave ya to bandcamp nirvana and yes my comment was out of line so I took it down....rave on.

I've asked myself the same question a thousand times.

But I know the answer.

A thread with 1,.000 album covers and links is as useful as an ashtray in a motorcycle.

Anybody here can throw 1,000 names easily, but that would help nobody, at least say something coherent about the band, I'm not willing to dig into hours and hours of music without any information to find one or two good bands.

I'm 100% sure that Svetonio has not heard 1% of the bands he throws us, he just posts them because the bands are in Bandcamp and he needs to do it God knows for what reason

People complained about Erik Neuteboom and the free advertising for his site (Including myself), but at least Erik made good reviews and excellent contributions, Bandcamp is getting free advertising here and sorry Svetonio....No contribution for the site.

IMO that thread is only a waste of bandwidth.

Sorry for the rant, but IO believe it was time to say what I feel.

Iván


-------------


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 03:26
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M


(...) Erik Neuteboom  (...)
 
 Is he accepted Via Obscura as Symponic Prog as you did, Ivan?
 
 
 


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 04:06
LOL




Gothic Rock band with classical and metal influences Stern Smile


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Ady Cardiac
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 04:33
just throwing me opinion into the cauldron.......i suppose if your an unsigned band these days....and lets face it its the digital age now......you got to use all the outlets you can to grab people....and i cant see the problem with bandcamp....the only problem i have personally...and sorry if this has been said already.....is that its blinking hard to find stuff specificly to my tastes.....as i'm more of a math rock ( hate that term ) and am into polyrhythm stuff and that sort of thing is impossible to find.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 05:07
Originally posted by Ady Cardiac

just throwing me opinion into the cauldron.......i suppose if your an unsigned band these days....and lets face it its the digital age now......you got to use all the outlets you can to grab people....and i cant see the problem with bandcamp....the only problem i have personally...and sorry if this has been said already.....is that its blinking hard to find stuff specificly to my tastes.....as i'm more of a math rock ( hate that term ) and am into polyrhythm stuff and that sort of thing is impossible to find.
No problem man, yesterday I recommended Vasudeva, signed math-rockers from Ireland:  http://littleleaguerecords.bandcamp.com/album/life-in-cycles" rel="nofollow - http://littleleaguerecords.bandcamp.com/album/life-in-cycles
Also, few days ago I suggested Jean Jean, also signed math rockers from Paris: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95648" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95648
If you searching for more avant stuff, please check this "bandcamp suggestion" by me, Gravitsapa from Ukraine; this is the signed band too:  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95272" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95272
Also check (if did not already) earlier this year suggested Postmaddona, American math rockers  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92933" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92933
 
Peace!
Svetonio


Posted By: Ady Cardiac
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 05:19
cheers Svet........will investigate :-)


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 10:52
Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M


(...) Erik Neuteboom  (...)

 Is he accepted Via Obscura as Symponic Prog as you did, Ivan?
 
 
 

I don't know, I don't talk with him since he left the site.

But II have respect for his knowledge, even when I don't agree with him that is very often.

In your case, you haven't shown any knowledge to respect or disrespect...You just give names and covers, something a bot can do

Iván




-------------


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 12:21
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M


(...) Erik Neuteboom  (...)

 Is he accepted Via Obscura as Symponic Prog as you did, Ivan?
 
 
 

I don't know, I don't talk with him since he left the site.

But II have respect for his knowledge, even when I don't agree with him that is very often.

In your case, you haven't shown any knowledge to respect or disrespect...You just give names and covers, something a bot can do

Iván








Sorry, I can't do better


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 12:24
People can always do better.

You could try doing less bands and more information.

You could try lots of other things instead - have you tried needle-point or ballroom dancing? I hear that flower-arranging is a relaxing hobby, you could consider that.


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 12:33
Originally posted by Dean

People can always do better.

You could try doing less bands and more information.

You could try lots of other things instead - have you tried needle-point or ballroom dancing? I hear that flower-arranging is a relaxing hobby, you could consider that.




THANK YOU!!!


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 12:44
Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M


(...) Erik Neuteboom  (...)

 Is he accepted Via Obscura as Symponic Prog as you did, Ivan?
 
 
 

I don't know, I don't talk with him since he left the site.

But II have respect for his knowledge, even when I don't agree with him that is very often.

In your case, you haven't shown any knowledge to respect or disrespect...You just give names and covers, something a bot can do

Iván








Sorry, I can't do better

Hire a bot

It can do the same as you, but with more valuable information.

Iván


-------------


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 13:20
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M


(...) Erik Neuteboom  (...)
 

 Is he accepted Via Obscura as Symponic Prog as you did, Ivan?
 
 
 

I don't know, I don't talk with him since he left the site.

But II have respect for his knowledge, even when I don't agree with him that is very often.

In your case, you haven't shown any knowledge to respect or disrespect...You just give names and covers, something a bot can do

Iván








Sorry, I can't do better

Hire a bot

It can do the same as you, but with more valuable information.

Iván
 
 
 
What he said!
I experience a catharsis..


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 13:28
You really are a Troll aren't you.

-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 15:35
Originally posted by DamoXt7942

Tough issue indeed.

I know some bands appearing only upon Bandcamp which are tremendously skilled / professional and well deserved for inclusion into PA, and on the contrary, some under formal contract to labels (including independent ones) which are amateur-ish and no-thank-you in PA (as some Admins / Collabs know, Kazuhiro and I strongly were opposed to an inclusion case which had been done without notice a while before).

But hey, we PA have fantastic "Subgenre Evaluation Teams", that can make proper decisions, let me say.

As a result, Teams can add artists suitable for PA "with enough info" or "with enough historical background (even if they're obscure)", and cannot add without them.

This is the answer, I think. If it's prog and fits into the site's rules I personally don't care if it's a bandcamp free download or a LP printed on gold. 

One of the last addition in Krautrock, Kanoi, has only free downloadable Bandcamp albums, give it a listen and let me know what you think. On the other hand, even a artists with a famous prog past and LP and CD outputs with major labels like Phil Collins or Annie Haslam are (correctly, IMO) not on the site.

Music matters, media doesn't.


-------------
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 15:48
Originally posted by Dean

You really are a Troll aren't you.

He's getting free advertising.

¿What else can he ask?

While we are suffering censorship from Google, people get free advertising.

I don't have problem with musicians, they should be supported, but this site is making money with us and leaving nothing.

¿And for what?

1,000 cover albums with no information.




-------------


Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 15:52
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Dean

You really are a Troll aren't you.

He's getting free advertising.

¿What else can he ask?

While we are suffering censorship from Google, people get free advertising.

I don't have problem with musicians, they should be supported, but this site is making money with us and leaving nothing.

¿And for what?

1,000 cover albums with no information.



How are we suffering censorship? If i type in a band and then the word prog into google this site is up on the top usually.


-------------
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/

wtf


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 16:00

Go to the Censorship thread it's all laid out there in great detail.



-------------
Ian

Anyone who thinks Kansas is Prog get out of the room - Adolf Hitler



Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 16:03
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad

Go to the Censorship thread it's all laid out there in great detail.


http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95512&KW=Censorship" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95512&KW=Censorship


-------------


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 16:28
Originally posted by Smurph

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Dean

You really are a Troll aren't you.

He's getting free advertising.

¿What else can he ask?

While we are suffering censorship from Google, people get free advertising.

I don't have problem with musicians, they should be supported, but this site is making money with us and leaving nothing.

¿And for what?

1,000 cover albums with no information.



How are we suffering censorship? If i type in a band and then the word prog into google this site is up on the top usually.

LOL, probably your avatar will be censored


-------------


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 17:08
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Smurph

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Dean

You really are a Troll aren't you.

He's getting free advertising.

¿What else can he ask?

While we are suffering censorship from Google, people get free advertising.

I don't have problem with musicians, they should be supported, but this site is making money with us and leaving nothing.

¿And for what?

1,000 cover albums with no information.



How are we suffering censorship? If i type in a band and then the word prog into google this site is up on the top usually.

LOL, probably your avatar will be censored

I want to know if it's worth getting the DVDLOL


-------------


In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent.


Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 17:18
Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Smurph

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Dean

You really are a Troll aren't you.

He's getting free advertising.

¿What else can he ask?

While we are suffering censorship from Google, people get free advertising.

I don't have problem with musicians, they should be supported, but this site is making money with us and leaving nothing.

¿And for what?

1,000 cover albums with no information.



How are we suffering censorship? If i type in a band and then the word prog into google this site is up on the top usually.

LOL, probably your avatar will be censored

I want to know if it's worth getting the DVDLOL

It's not worth getting when you can watch most of the non-sex clips on the internet for free. I'm pretty sure I don't wanna see the sex scenes anyway.  LOL

But it is really hilarious.


-------------
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/

wtf


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 17:22
Originally posted by Smurph

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Smurph

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Dean

You really are a Troll aren't you.

He's getting free advertising.

¿What else can he ask?

While we are suffering censorship from Google, people get free advertising.

I don't have problem with musicians, they should be supported, but this site is making money with us and leaving nothing.

¿And for what?

1,000 cover albums with no information.



How are we suffering censorship? If i type in a band and then the word prog into google this site is up on the top usually.

LOL, probably your avatar will be censored

I want to know if it's worth getting the DVDLOL

It's not worth getting when you can watch most of the non-sex clips on the internet for free. I'm pretty sure I don't wanna see the sex scenes anyway. 

Now then, let me pretend that I can go back 14 years since I met the wife and utter marital bliss............

Okay then. What the bloody hell is the point of buying or watching a porn flick without the bloody porn?Confused


-------------


In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent.


Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 17:44
Originally posted by lazland

 

Okay then. What the bloody hell is the point of buying or watching a porn flick without the bloody porn?Confused


Some things are much funnier/better without the most important parts.

Porn without the sex, Garfield without Garfield having the ability to speak so Jon just runs around talking to a cat like a lunatic, and for a prog reference, Dream Theater without James LaBrie imo, etc. 

Because I find it hilarious. So hilarious. And I would never watch a sex scene with someone that calls herself "Sikki Nix"

Nooooo thanks.


-------------
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/

wtf


Posted By: motherdust
Date Posted: November 04 2013 at 07:21
Mother Dust


"outrageous bloody guitar freak-outs by modern day krautrockers"


Free downloads available @ Bandcamp!

http://motherdust.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - motherdust.bandcamp.com


http://www.facebook.com/mother.dust.conspiracy" rel="nofollow - www.facebook.com/mother.dust.conspiracy

http://www.reverbnation.com/motherdust" rel="nofollow - www.reverbnation.com/motherdust


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 10 2013 at 12:56
Unhappy
 
I see that Bandcamp is full of Einstein's who seem to think that a thread that is questioning the value of bandcamp to this particular website is the ideal place to spam their wares and promote themselves. The more this happens the less inclined I am to think that any of these are worth checking out at all.
 
Perhaps they would find a more receptive place for peddling their music in one of our other threads, like this one:
 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69197&PN=63" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Recommendations
 
(catchy name - I wonder what it means?)
 


-------------


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman



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