Modern prog
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95590
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Topic: Modern prog
Posted By: RoeDent
Subject: Modern prog
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 15:24
| Is there anyone else here who prefers the modern wave of prog music (say, 1989-present->) to the so-called "classic" era of the 70s? The music of bands like Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree and Spock's Beard just does more for me than Yes, Genesis, ELP et al. Maybe it's because I wasn't around during that era, but still, I am proud to have a progressive era of MY time, to call my own, and I firmly believe we are in a new Golden Age of progressive rock. |
Replies:
Posted By: schizoidman
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 16:58
I grew up listening to Yes, Genesis, ELP, etcetera and there is no substitution for that. They will always have that special place in my psychological and emotional make up that can never be replaced by any other music.
I give you huge credit for having the good sense to reject the crap that's played on commercial radio and TV and seek out music with substance created by musicians that can actually play their instruments.
The zeitgeist of the late 60's and 70's was completely different than today. The world is a different place than it was back then. Young people today have more information, music, technology, et al at their fingertips than I ever did. You have the luxury of having around 50 years of prog to select and choose from. That wasn't the case back then. Prog was inventing itself as time passed and the bands that are listened to today are the ones whose music has so far withstood the test of time.
I have my favorites now (Porcupine Tree, Big Big Train, Taal, Loreena McKennitt) just as I did back in the day (Yes, Genesis, ELP, Tull....never did care for Rush, Gentle Giant, Uriah Heep, Can, IQ).
Be as proud as you like of the prog being made today. It's the soundtrack of your life for the rest of your life. ------------- Making the useless useful 24/7. |
RoeDent wrote:Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 17:27
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I like both old and new prog but right now I am trying to listen to as much new prog as possible. The reason why I became interested in prog in the first place was because I was really disillusioned with the commercial music. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 17:39
Very nice post mister schizoid  One I very much agree with.I do prefer the old stuff myself - even if I love a lot of the new as well. I gather most of the modern music I listen to, that's featured on PA that is, probably won't be called 'prog' by most of the old timers. Ulver, Vespero, Cabezas de Cera and the likes. I'm not really into the modern prog scene though - bands like Transatlantic, Spock's Beard, Haken and Flower Kings sound like cheese to me. I am very glad that they're pulling people in from afar to experience a whole new music experience though. People should just follow their gut when it comes down to music - whatever others may say. New old - as long as it puts the zing in your mickey, it's all good. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 18:22
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I agree with the original post, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who speaks this opinion. I do think we are in a golden age of not only progressive music but of music production in general, so much music is being made and released each day. Modern bands have always done more for me than the "classics", and while I appreciate Foxtrot and Pawn Hearts as much as the next guy (or maybe... the normal prog fan..)I much rather listen to amazing music from the likes of The Mars Volta and whatnot. I may not be the biggest fan of the bands like Dream Theater and Spocks Beard but overall I agree with your statements and am glad you posted this  ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 18:24
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I think progressive music has got progressively better (with a couple of dips in the late 80's though), and I actually think 70's prog is notoriously overrated trite for the most part, and I really don't see what it has to do with the great stuff coming out today. I think it's just the massive circlejerk this board has for "classic" prog that makes it appear as if we're a majority. I even think that Neo-Prog is better than Symphonic. ------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 18:24
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Although I disagree about Spock's Beard, and all of those modern symph bands. They just sound as if they're trying to exist in the 70's and that does nothing for me. Transatlantic are mind-blowingly awful. ------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 19:42
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I like modern symphonic prog bands and artists, but I do agree with the criticism that they should challenge themselves and make some music that sounds new. I also think we are in the golden age or maybe a silver age at least because of the internet. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 20:41
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My love of the modern is probably equal to the classic era. The number of great avant bands continues to grow and I find I buy as much new as old stuff. It's a balance with me. Amongst my favorite modern bands are Thinking Plague, Aranis, Cheer-Accident, Miriodor, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Rational Diet, Yugen, Radiohead, The Future Kings Of England, Tool, Guapo, Setna, Uz Jsme Doma, Alamaailman Vasarat, Vezhlizy Otkaz, DAAU, Finnegans Wake, Hamster Theater, 5UU's, etc, etc, ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 20:57
| I don't believe in eras like modern or classic, as in, I don't see why that should affect my preferences. Music is too vast - going from Renaissance or Baroque era through jazz to the present day electronic age - to side squarely with one era. There are just bands and their music. If I did a rough reckoning, I would have to say that there are more classic prog rock bands compared to new ones that I like. But that's because they are new, I'll need more time to discover them. I love Radiohead and one or two albums of Muse and ACT and also like Mars Volta, Mastodon, some albums of PT/Wilson. And there are bands/artists like Everything Everything or Prasanna which won't get into this database but which have something to do with prog from my point of view and are among my favourites. |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 22:33
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It's a totally even split for me. I don't care in what year an album is made or a particular band is active. If it's good, I'll love it. My top 3 albums are Red, Godbluff, and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, but an album could come out tomorrow, or next year, or ten years from now that could easily replace any of them. And I'm totally okay with that. I won't stop liking them by any stretch of the imagination. They'll just be joined by a new classic made several decades later. To strengthen the point, my current 4th and 5th place albums are Ghost Reveries by Opeth (2005) and Unfolded Like Staircase by Discipline (1997), and I champion those albums in a most annoying fashion every chance I get |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 23:14
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I agreed with the opening post. No question that the Progressive Rock was fresh and bold back then in late 60s - early 70s, but the genre is fresh and bold again. I do not think we're wrong to say that we're in the middle of new revolution of Progressive Rock. So many great debuts and the new bands are the proof of that.
There are new genres accepted by prog audience as post and math rock, progressive metal, post and experimental metal; the mostly instrumental genres who weren't existed back then in late '60s - early '70s; the sub-genres as heavy prog and especially the instrumental psychedelic prog is great now as it was in 70s - or even better.
Of course, one who is in "retro" prog, also can enjoy in a number of the truly masterpieces released in past two-three years.
As a collateral damage of globalization, at present day the great bands are coming from almost all over the world, which is not the case back then. As you know, Internet is the ghost from the bottle which is free now; it brings a lot of changes and regarding Progressive Rock that change is dramatical and positive; with the new generation of progressive musicians that made the new revolution of the genre possible and that's why Progressive Rock is shining now in its glory again.
Actually, I don't care about the people who are not able to see (hear) that right now; some of us just need a time to discover the modern Progressive Rock as well.
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Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 16 2013 at 23:52
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^Nice inclusion of that iamthemorning track. I love that one, and the album as a whole
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 00:37
 ~ album is THE masterpiece of modern Progressive Rock and one of a number of the evidences of that unexpected & beautiful renaissence of Progressive Rock. Iamthemorning is not recycled 70s stuff. This is new, but nothing less great than the classic prog LPs released in 70s who passed the test of time. Many of us can be emotionaly, socialy, by the age, etc connected strictly with an ancient stuff recorded 40-45 years ago, but it's non sense e.g. to say that the quality of modern progressive music can't be even compared with the classic albums made decades ago, just because of that surrealistic fear that the old prog bands will be replaced with the new ones. Nobody will replaced them. The old Prog is here to stay, but also the new stuff come every day and istantly become timeless as same as the classic stuff aswell.
p.s. Btw, the second album by Iamthemornig will be spectacular.
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Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 01:15
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I can't say that I prefer the new prog over the old prog but I'll take the new prog over the newer pop stuff any day. Being a teen in the eighties I was caught between two worlds. I suppose many folks my age have never discovered the new prog because they somehow weren't exposed to the old prog so I suppose most prog fans are either over 50 or under 30. I'm not sure but sometimes it seems that way. I was fortunate to be able to discover prog at a time when it was very underground and not active in a commercial way or a way where people could easily discover it. I still favor the bands who got me into the genre in the first place such as YES, King Crimson, ELP, Genesis, Pink Floyd, RUSH etc. |
Posted By: PhideauxFan
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 01:33
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I prefer modern progressive music. Porcupine Tree, The Pineapple Thief, Crippled Black Phoenix and many others ... Also the new post rock bands (Sky Architects, Maserati, The Allstar Project, ... ). I must say that the music from the 70's I like is not progressive rock but hard-rock (Rainbow, Montrose, ... ). |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 01:47
| Errmm there is absolutely nothing around now that can get close to an album like Aphrodite's Child 666 that was initially even rejected by the record company as too 'out there'. 1969-1972 was a massive time for experimentation. 1972 to the present day represents the settled prog era as far as I'm concerned as the style and ideas in use (the 'genre') was pretty much set from that point on and the only innovation since has been the morphing of metal bands into prog bands by playing longer tracks rather than radio fodder. Neo Prog is just a less adventurous form of symph prog. Nowadays I think there is more taste for heavy prog as best represented by Porcupine Tree. Is it better? No but its different. I would consider Deadwing to be the only modern classic prog album. Beyond that there is not so much for me that can butt heads with the ELP/Genesis/ Yes classic era although Anathema have produced a couple of very nice albums recently that are not far off. |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 02:50
I totally agree with you on all those points. And my copy of the second album has been preordered |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 03:04
| I too, am currently indulging in lots of modern Prog, simply put, the production values lift the music to incredible heights. When I re-visit old 'classics', as incredible as they are, they are sounding 'old' - still very dear to me, but I can really appreciate the freshness and vibrancy of modern Prog. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 04:18
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On the whole, I marginally prefer the golden age of the 70s (Camel, Genesis, Floyd, GG, Tull, Rush, Horslips, Strawbs and others), but IQ, Pendragon, Mostly Autumn, Riverside, Marillion, amongst others, are superb bands and make a damned good case for modern prog. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: timbo
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 04:19
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I think to a large extent, it depends on when you started getting into prog. As a teenager in the late seventies, I came to prog through Genesis, Yes etc. (admittedly slightly past their golden age, but soon picked up their back catalogues). I therefore have an emotional attachment to them that I don't have to modern prog. While I have enjoyed discovering modern band like Big Big Train and Moon Safari, I don't have the same connection with them. I can enjoy listening to them and appreciate the music, but it doesn't "grab me" like the 70s bands I grew up with. Probably younger listeners will have the same experience - what they got into as teenagers will have the emotional connection that earlier/later bands don't have. Not to say one is better or worse than the other, it's just the bond isn't quite there. |
Posted By: WeepingElf
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 05:36
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I like both the classics and contemporary stuff (and of course, what has been between), but I am indeed more interested in what is going on in our time. The past is, well, over. There was a lot of great stuff of lasting value in the classical era, but I find what is going on now more exciting. I spend much more time listening to Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, Haken etc. (though I don't like Steven Wilson's stuff much), than listening to Yes, Genesis, ELP, Pink Floyd and all the others from the 70s. It is hard to say whether modern or classical progressive rock is better; there is excellent music, and less excellent music, to be found in any area of progressive rock. But I understand progressive rock as something that continues to progress, and thus am most interested in the music of our times. ------------- ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf "What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes." |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 09:35
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Exactly my thoughts. I'm much more interested in what's being put out now, and I just find the music easier to really dig my nails into. Im not going to say that's wrong to listen to progressive rock of now instead of 40 years ago, but it certainly makes some sense to me. Even my favorite act from the 70's, Rush continued to make good music exitting that decade. So it makes sense that I've been able to consistently listen to them and enjoy all of their albums whether its Hold Your Fire or Counterparts. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 09:50
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As some one said earlier.....it's all good.
But 2 points to consider is that the old classic prog bands led the way and certainly influenced and provided a style and template in many cases for the newer bands , and of course there was a discussion not long ago about how progressive the newer material is (is it progressing in any meaningful way..) and is it all that different.?
I like many of the new bands but still favor the older ones but then I also grew up with the classic bands.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 09:55
That's...quite a statement.
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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 10:14
| ^not even in my top 100 of new modern prog |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 10:50
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It's a nice album but similarly it's not top 50 for me of modern albums. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 11:33
Good point. I'm definitely a classic prog guy...perhaps because that was the music I grew up on? Maybe? I don't know and I really don't care. I have very few "modern prog" bands in my collection but not because I turn my nose up at anything released after September 24, 1974  It's simply a function that the sound I enjoy the most is rooted in classic prog so when a band like Anglagard showed up with mellotrons, analog gear, and a writing style that explored the classic prog vocabulary at the forefront, it spoke to me in a way that modern prog bands with digital instruments never did. I have tried out some modern prog that my PA brothers and sisters rave about on youtube - but it get's a very lukewarm "it's good" reception and nothing like the obsessive insanity that I have for classic prog (or more recent bands that worship/emulate that era). So while it's not a prejudice against modern prog, probability theory tells me I'm better served spending my precious time exploring the classic prog goldmine. I get way more excited about the prospect of hearing an unknown French prog band from '75 for the first time than I ever get about a pending 2013 release
 ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: altaeria
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 11:51
And there goes your credibility  |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 12:08
------------- 
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 12:19
I've said this before and is my reasoning for my In the Court.. Isn't this untouchable masterpiece. Influence or impact doesn't change the actual quality of music. So I'm not sure how this statement means that classic progressive rock is any better? And to your second statement, wouldn't having to create music that deviates from classic prog be more difficult than to follow the roots? There's an interview I've seen where Roger Daultry said that he sympathizes with newer bands because its much more difficult to make music than the era he was a part of. He used the analogy that there is more paint on the canvas of the musical world. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 12:20
| I think iamthemorning is one of the best bands now. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 12:50
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I like both eras as there are many superb groups from then and now. I find that modern prog suffers from too much prog metal and post rock experimental acts that just have no concept of good melodic structure and songcraft!! ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 12:59
At present day, the sub-genres (with the bands who come from so many countries with their specific styles and atmospheres) are much more different to each other. All of that going so fast in many different directions as in that big bang theory but in the same time all of that still to be prog.
It's really a new dimension of modern prog which good old prog did not have to.
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Posted By: schizoidman
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 13:00
Thanks! I'm finding the newer prog artists very much hit or miss. For instance, I find Neal Morse's "?" album a 4 or 5 star album. But his other albums I find lacking.
Sieges Even....I find I like a few tracks on "The Art of Navigating by the Stars" and the rest ...I'm still working on.
Overall, I'm more of an old stuff guy. The thing is, there's more prog available now than ever before. So, I think it's a lot harder sifting through the concrete (to paraphrase Peter Gabriel) to find music that really connects with me.
Cheers! ------------- Making the useless useful 24/7. |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 13:08
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I see what you did there |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 13:58
Well played my friend!  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 15:06
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I wasn't born in the time of the classic era of prog rock, or even barely in the sort of 90s revival with the Flower Kings, Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, etc. but I in general prefer the classics like you mentioned (Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd) but there are a few exceptions such as Dream Theater's Metropolis Pt. 2, or Iamthemorning's debut, or Haken's "The Mountain", but I'd say only about 5% of the prog I listen to is from after about 1982. Now, it's starting to change because I'm listening more to the bands I mentioned such as Dream Theater, Haken, Porcupine Tree, Steve Wilson and so on and maybe in about 6 months it will be 25% judging by the rate it's currently going up. Love it all though!
 Can't get enough of it, whatever it is. I just tend to look back to the classics more often  |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 15:11
I think he meant September 25th 1974. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 15:23
Just an observation.
And regarding new or modern prog again I don't know of a single band that hasn't borrowed at least one thing from the classic bands. And yes it is difficult to create 'new music'...whatever that is... since the older bands have already been there and done that. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 15:45
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Well I kind of hate to say it but I really don't think there are any newer bands in the prog rock genre that would be considered "household names." What I mean by that is if you went to any given local high school and asked the students what newer prog bands they know they would probably give you a blank stare and not know how to answer the question. Sure some are familiar with a few but not the majority. Most people do not know what prog is and out of those who do most would associate the genre with the seventies and only name seventies bands. This only addresses the issue of popularity or name recognition. If we look at quality it's a different story but most of my favorite stuff and the stuff that has stood the test of time is the older classic stuff. There are some recent classics but I can't really think of many of the top of my head. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 15:52
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Radiohead and Muse would probably be the most likely modern bands to be known in a local high school...but how prog they are or aren't is another discussion.
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 15:54
I can certainly agree that the popularity of progressive rock bands in the 1970s was unrivaled.
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Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 16:52
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The modern bands most closely associated with prog such as The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard aren't that well known outside of prog circles. Porcupine Tree and Dream Theater are farily well known both in and out of prog circles but I think they have both been marketed outside of prog circles and have a fan base outside of prog(especially in metal)therefore many of their fans probably aren't even prog fans and I'm sure some of them don't even know what prog is. So what does all this mean? Well I guess the bottom line is if prog doesn't have a large audience for current stuff then most bands are going to be influenced by the older bands and inevitably wind up sounding like them. It's not like this entirely but it was especially like this in the 80's and 90's where the only real reference for newer bands was the older bands. Some of the newer(or at least post seventies) bands like IQ, Riverside, Porcupine Tree, Marillion, Dream Theater, Mars Volta, Radiohead(if you can count them), Flower Kings, Pendragon, Phideaux, Glass Hammer, Spock's Beard, Opeth and Dream Theater etc are well known enough to influence newer prog bands. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 16:56
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Modern prog lacks melody, character and authenticity. You'd have to be young and lost or just old and confused to prefer modern over old
------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 17:09
| baloney^ |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 18:42
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No doubt or any question in my mind...I adore and love it all. From 1968 to 2013 I've been able to find and appreciate sounds of each era that have greatly agreed with me. Ergo, there is no lessor of 2 evils for me in this equation. Both classic and modern Prog are terrific. Remember, a progheads variety is a for a progheads sanity. Obviously, their are certain era's I favor more than others, but If someone were to ask me what Prog generation should I explore? I'd say....all of it!! From The Beattles and Crimson to Haken, Knight Area and Animals as Leaders. I feel it's all important, relevant stuff. :) ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 18:52
| Exactly^ why limit yourself? |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 19:05
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^ the exploration and contrast is unbelievable. I love it. I'll through on an Asia Minor album, then after our on some My Dying Bride and jump into Haken's The Mountain. It's beautiful and each era has its own unique qualities, especially with the use of Technology. ;) Never would I dare limit myself. You are spot on Mr. Leary. ;) ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 19:50
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 20:01
He trolls and says the same thing every chance he can get. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 20:16
Dude, you miss out on so much amazing progressive music by outright dismissing modern stuff altogether. So many inventive and exciting bands working in a variety of progressive genres to discover! Don't simply hang on to a few albums from a small period of time and miss everything else. |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 21:26
I couldn't agree more. Dismissing 21st century Prog is a big no no....somebody operate on Dr. Prog!! ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 21:33
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*facepalm* ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 00:47
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As much as I love and adore modern prog with bands like Taal, Sky Architect, Tool, Dreadnaught, 5uu's, Gevende, Orphaned Land, Estradasphere and even consider them to be my favorite bands ever, the style of prog I feel most connected with is 70's prog no doubt about it. I'm really not talking about the classics everyone knows, the gold didn't float only on the surface, it pentrated very deeply inside and spreaded to almost every country. There's something about the 70's that easily captivates me, the sound, the ideas and even in the playing (maybe you could sum it up with one word...Drugs! ) |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 01:04
Ageism in the prog community is the very antithesis of what prog represents. The word "prog" should imply "progress". How can music move forward if we keep looking backward as though we've already left behind our potential to create new masterpieces? That, my friends, is regressive, not progressive. Don't throw away the classics by any means, but don't put them on an inflated pedestal. You miss out on the amazing things going on in today's music scene. And there is some truly amazing stuff going on today. Some of it better than the classic stuff by miles in my opinion. After stating that observation that I hope was communicated as a humble thought, I'm going to start a fight by interjecting my opinion of such examples, because that's the proper social convention for posting on the internet. The new Haken album, Riverside's last two, the new Anglagard album, and Discipline's most recent album are examples that have come out within the past 5 years that I like better than the ENTIRE YES DISCOGRAPHY. There, I said it. Not trolling either. And I'm not sorry. Commence bashing |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 01:10
I wouldn't be much help, man, I always sucked at that....kept hitting the sides and setting the red light off! |
Posted By: The Mystical
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 03:38
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I personally don't choose music by its era. Each era contains music that I like and music that I don't like (though I tend to like any music if I give it a good chance), even if there are some periods of music that contain lots of my favourite music. Much of my favourite music comes from the years: 1972 1973 1978 1980 1993 2002 2008 2011 ------------- I am currently digging: Hawkwind, Rare Bird, Gong, Tangerine Dream, Khan, Iron Butterfly, and all things canterbury and hard-psych. I also love jazz! Please drop me a message with album suggestions. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 07:04
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 07:22
If it was quality I'd be rating it. It's plastic unmelodic poo ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 07:30
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^ "EXTERMINATE" the Doctor......... If Spock's Beard produce 'plastic unmelodic poo' I'll eat my organic unmelodic poo.......... |
Posted By: WeepingElf
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 10:47
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I got into prog in the late 80s, when I discovered Rush and Marillion - i.e., the then-current top players. Since then, I have been following what was going on in prog at the time, but also discovered the classics. The classics occupy a special place in my heart because they laid the foundations without which no prog could exist, and created some masterpieces which still stand out as achievements of lasting value, but the focus of my interest has always been on new progressive rock bands and their music. ------------- ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf "What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes." |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 11:31
Thanks much for the tip...I read your review of "The Weirding" yesterday and was intrigued...I'm giving the album a spin or two now - TGFYoutube ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 12:31
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Love this post and love that people can love their modern prog bands. I really want to hear modern prog that is both innovative, harmonically tonal with modal experimentation, and spiritually "normative" -- in the way Yes, ELP and others are. It seems you either get one or the other with modern prog: kind of dark, bordering on the edge of obvious drug culture music, or more mainstream musically but having good messages. I bought Sleepytime Gorilla Museum when I think their 2nd CD came out, but not really into that school much anymore. I liked a lot of 5UU material but not their more experimental stuff. I think they're the best when they sound most like a Yes variation =) Best bands I've heard recently were Real Estate and Tame Impala. ------------- -- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 15:25
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My own position on this is rather complex, and I wager that right now I'm too exhausted to really explain it. Stay tuned.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: kjprogger
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 15:33
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I love much more of the old than the new. But that doesn't mean I don't love some of the new. Some of it is just as mind-blowing as the stuff I grew up on. For example, give me Transatlantic or Neal Morse any time, any day. Their music is every bit as rich, complex, virtuosic and melodic as anything written 40 years ago. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 15:45
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The "modern" bands I like? They are either even further removed from the classic '60s/'70s prog rock bands than Marillion, DT and their ilk probably being more avantgarde than prog. (e. g. The Boredoms) Or they're very overtly retro. (e. g. Causa Sui) Pretty weird actually. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 15:47
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 17:24
Well.....at least you are consistent about your lack of knowledge regarding progressive rock.
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 18:57
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spocks beard are terrible lol ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 19:00
While I think it's kind of silly for everyone to be attacking Dr Prog for his opinion (aren't we all opinionated buggers when it comes to our beloved prog?) to write off everything "modern" (post 1989 as per the OP's definition in this thread) seems like a crazy way to limit yourself from discovering some great music. If I closed up shop in 1989 I'd never have discovered Devil Doll, Thinking Plague, Primus, Asgard, Anglagard, Anekdoten, Landberk, Echolyn, Spock's Beard...I'll admit I don't run into much prog from the past 10 years that blows me away, but you gotta keep your ears open! 2013 is an incredible time to be a prog fan, not only do we have the PA database to explore...but just about any obscure prog album you might want to check out is available on youtube. When I was getting into prog, you looked at the album cover, checked out the equipment list for the keyboard player hoping to find a mellotron or a Moog, looked if there were any songs longer than 7 minutes, plunked down your $$$ and rolled the dice.  "A mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work if it isn't open" - Frank Zappa ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 19:12
No it's silly because he's a troll trying to provoke a reaction, which is what he got. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 19:20
Well I honestly hardly like music post 1983. So I'm not lying lol ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 19:23
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Speaking of "modern prog'......is there a cut off date for it to be 'modern'? When did modern prog actually begin? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 19:34
There's no such thing as music moving forward. It's the most silly thing I've ever heard  . How is inventing a new style of music moving forward? You listen to an old prog song and many of them can be listened so many times and are still enjoyable to listen to. It's all about the composition. That's why it is called progressive rock. The songs keep going. New wave prog is on the completely wrong tangent. They can barely write a melody, they are influenced by so many wrong bands and they have completely lost the concept of what progressive rock is really about ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 19:41
If you barely listen to music after 1983 exactly how do you know this?
This is hardly the stuff of serious debate ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 20:53
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Actually, Dr. Prog is right at one point. Modern prog is less melodic in general than the old. I think that is because the old prog was more 'romantic'; e.g. space rock as subgenre wasn't dark as it is today, it was an 'optimistic'' vision of the space; I prefer today's dark version because I'm not convinced that aliens are good-humored guys who enjoy their flying teapots, lol.
Furthermore, the taste of the today's audience is also changed with the times, what results that modern prog, if it is "too melodic", it will not pass the gate in many cases; e.g. pretty melodic U.S. band 41Point9 was rejected by both PA' Symphonic and Crossover Team http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PN=2" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PN=2
I presumed that they were rejected because of "too melodic"; I can't see another reason because there is no way that the 41Point9 is not 100% prog.
Simply like that, the prog audience is changed. Some years ago, I went in the newly open Virgin record store in Glyfada, Greece, and asked quite a young dealer to see if they have some prog; the boy asked me "is it aggressive?". Believe it or not. Hidding suprise, I said yes, and he instructed me on the shelf with prog metal CDs.
However, it's not true that in modern prog have not a lot of melodic stuff (btw when I say 'modern prog' that means the contemporary prog made in this decade), nor that modern prog is worse then the old because it is less melodic in general. Modern prog is magnificent especially in its diversity with all the sub-genres and the styles that did not existed back then, or were far worst than today e.g. heavy prog.
Also, its not true that modern prog is to sound 'plastic'. And finally, because of modern technology and (or) whatever, now is less crap then in late 60s - early 70s.
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Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 21:13
I'm honestly not trying to argue by saying this, but I really don't understand what you're trying to communicate. Can you clarify please? Again, I mean no confrontation, but I'm not seeing the logic behind the earlier part of your statement. As someone who's nearing the completion of a master's degree in classical composition and has taken many History of Western Music classes, I can testify that the outgrowth of new musical innovations from one stylistic period to another (renaissance to baroque to classic to romantic to 20th century) was motivated by the desire to expound upon what had already been done to create a new musical idiom that was unique and served as a benchmark in its natural evolution. Hence, moving forward. Ever expanding in a forward direction and fueled by the knowledge of where music has been already and a desire to transcend the mold of a style that was beginning to overstay its welcome. I never said don't listen to and enjoy the classics. My top 3 albums (Red, Godbluff, and Lamb) each came out in the mid-70s. And I still love Relayer and think it's a bona fide masterpiece. We can enjoy these works throughout our lives because the composition of each work was truly amazing and meant something to us. I agree with your point there. But the modern generation hasn't lost that. In fact, because so many of them were influenced by the progressive giants of the past, it's only fair to say these musicians are the next steps in their legacy. And there's no reason why they can't be every bit as talented, if not more so, than the giants of yesteryear. As far as the melody comment, that's just a hasty generalization, possibly ill-informed or tainted by A) a bad, narrow sample pool; B) personal bias affecting one's willingness to hear and appreciate the melodies that actually are there; or C) Both. Because I've actually heard discernible, well-developed, emotionally gratifying melodies in many modern works, I know I'm not wrong in saying they are, in fact, there. I can recommend you some good examples if you'd be interested in hearing something both new and amazing. But of course, if you're just trolling, then you picked a good manner in which to get under a lot of people's skin it would seem, and for that, I'm actually quite impressed. I just don't understand jokes a lot of the time, so I honestly can't tell. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 21:19
Sounds like a prog idol competition lol. Music will never go anywhere with these judges in charge. I don't think bands know how to produce melody like they used to. There's only so much you can do with a pattern. I reckon the worst thing to happen to music was early 80s metal. ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 21:43
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There's one stumbling block for me in some of the modern prog I have listened to. I don't generally find it very catchy or memorable. It's as if I have to listen several times just to start 'learning' the composition and then maybe see if I like it. There is nothing right or wrong about such an approach but it doesn't work for me personally. I get into some classical and jazz music more easily than stuff like Deluge Grandeur. I have listened to not only the more accessible 70s prog rock bands like Yes or Genesis but also those in the Zeuhl/ later Canterbury like Magma or National Health and I don't face this problem generally speaking in 70s prog. Of course, it's not a fair comparison because all these are bands with relatively lasting appeal (which is the reason they are still reviewed and discussed on websites like these) whereas I listen to new prog as it comes. But when modern prog rock bands do try to be catchy (mainly prog metal), it seems to be more in a kind of generic/cliched way that reminds me of all the cheesy pop and glam-metal music of 80s/90s that I am not er, exactly dying to hear more of. I have noticed that a lot of people who say they like modern prog more than classic prog mention VDGG as one of their favourite classic prog rock bands. I do find VDGG rather unmemorable, however engrossing I might find them while their music plays, so maybe this lack of memorability is a plus from a certain point of view where any music that immediately "grabs the listener by the collar" has got to be pop/commercial music and automatically bad ( I remember that Henry Plainview used to dislike catchy music). I wonder if such kind of thinking dictates the compositional choices of some of these new prog rock bands too.
Building a little more on that point, I search for a motif in any track of music I listen to. If the point is to listen to the arrangements rather than the motif (because the motif by itself lacks memorability), it's not for me. Again, it's not for me to say it's right or wrong, but about my preferences. EDIT: For me, catchiness itself flows from memorable motifs rather than accessible arrangements. Just added that because people might wonder how exactly I find a band like Magma memorable and then say there's some modern prog that I don't find memorable.
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 22:49
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@Dr. Prog
Why they ought to make "melodic" (and vocally) at that old way to be great? I'm sure It's non sense. Please take a listen to this a bit just to get an image what i call the modern prog (because maybe you thought that I listen some bull-s.) http://moonjunerecords.bandcamp.com/album/am-i-walking-wrong" rel="nofollow - http://moonjunerecords.bandcamp.com/album/am-i-walking-wrong
I don't think you're troll and I'm always respect your opinion but what you said about modern prog, it really sounds to me so similiar when people ask me why I think that Too Old is the best album by Jethro Tull, why I think that Shamal is the best album by GonG, why I prefer Relayer and Going For The One much more than The Yes Album and so on. I realized why they asked me that - just because these albums are recorded after 1972. And of course, because my fav masterpieces by mentioned bands is to sound pretty modern if you compare these LPs (I mean original LPs, not remastered CDs) with the stuff what the same artists were released as teens. I love so much that moody atmosphere of Trespass the original LP but I know that great atmosphere is made accidently. I agreed with your once that Nursery Cream is 80% boring album; I will explain why. Although I bought Nursery Cream the original LP as a kid in 70s, I bought it after purchase of amazing Genesis Live (where Gabriel was recorded that definitive version of Musical Box), SEbtP, Lamb, Trick of the Tail, the albums who are just perfect, and of course then NC was boring to me (I loved For Absent Friends, though). Same thing with overrated Foxtrot - that original pressing was awfull and with the remastered version it's really fine album.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 22:52
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The idea that 'modern prog' bands don't have good melodies is simply not true.
I can name 4 of my favorite modern bands that are loaded with strong melodies and I'm willing to bet that the other members here can add many to that list.
IQ
Wobbler
Astra
White Willow
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 23:03
It's ironic really, the reason VDGG became my favorite so quickly was because I found their melodies and motives to be so strong and memorable. Even after the first listen, they stuck with me and never left. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 23:05
| I certainly cannot relate to that. With the exception of H to He, I generally find their music dense, rambling and unmemorable. In a similar sense, when I say Images and Words is my favourite DT album, I am informed in a slightly snobbish tone by some DT fans that that is a beginner's album while the real meat is at Metropolis 2. But I only find Metropolis 2 unfocused and rambling (again). I&W just fit their ideas into more compact and tight capsules, which I prefer. If that is beginner music, then oh well whatever, I can only listen to what my heart desires and not to what would appease snobs. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 23:21
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I love vdgg except for pawn hearts. It's a good album but I find lighthouse keepers pretty boring after such an interesting start. H to he is really strong and so is Godbluff. I really enjoy their 75-78 period in conjunction with peters solo stuff from this period. Would have been interesting if they were still a band from 1972-74 ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 23:45
| There weren't so many great prog debuts in early 70s. ELP's debut comes in mind as really great one, then Space Shanty, Tubular Bells, RTF's debut for ECM, Weather Report's debut... Of course there was more but for sure not so huge number of spectacular debuts as it is at the present day. |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 23:47
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If it makes you feel any better, I much prefer that one to Metropolis as well. It's in my top 10 favorite albums There's nothing beginner about that album in my book at all. It's beautiful! |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 00:16
| Oh I get that you do find VDGG memorable, though I don't. That is a matter of taste. But I have read some members of this forum suggest the idea that there is no reason why a piece of music should be memorable because it is only supposed to convey some emotions. That is an interesting thought but is totally alien to me. I don't know any other way of listening to music than to match onto a memorable motif. So I wondered if some modern prog rock bands also subscribe to the notion that memorability is not important. |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 01:22
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I can't say I relate to the mentality you mentioned seeing expressed by some other forum members either. I share your sentiments entirely on that one! An alien thought indeed. I'm one of those people that likes both emotion and memorability. The two need not be separated. In my mind (and heart, I guess), the two become one inseparable entity. That's the hallmark of great music to me, an abundance of each. I understand where that mentality came from, but to me it's a false dichotomy. Instead of wanting this or that, I'd rather have this and that and the other. It's very possible that modern bands think that way, but on either side of that, I know for a fact that there are plenty that I can name off the top of my head that do not observe that "rule". Hence my earlier case for melodic prog still being created. I also believe the unmemorable, unmelodic stuff could have and most likely did exist back in the "golden age" (I don't care for this term personally) too. We probably just don't hear about it as much by comparison because those groups are not our contemporaries and probably didn't withstand the test of time like the 70s giants. Same thing with classical composers: the best and the most innovative (not always interchangeable, I must stress) get the recognition, and the ones that don't contribute anything memorable are more often than not lost to historic obscurity. Even the ones that do get remembered aren't guaranteed to be any more memorable in my book all the time. Example: One listen to The Mountain by Haken about two weeks ago, and I'm already captivated by the emotionally gripping melody and hauntingly beautiful lyrics of the last track. I haven't forgotten them at all. I sing them to myself daily. That was after one listen. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 01:35
I also think this is possible and said as much in the earlier post. The bands we refer back to the 70s are the ones that have stood the test of time. However, I remember that a year back or so there was a lot of buzz about Deluge Grander in the forum and I remember listening to it and finding it unmemorable (to me) gave up. After reading the comments of some of those who appreciated it, I wondered if perhaps there is a section of listeners today that are looking for a certain kind of sonic experience rather than 'hummable' motifs. And if that is the case, it is possible that some bands try to cater to that and are more involved in evoking a certain ambience than in searching for infectious hooks. I of course don't mean to imply all bands do this. I loved ACT's Imaginary Friends and Last Epic albums and have waited in vain (so far) for a follow up to the relatively more middling Silence. They can be somewhat cheesy at times but their tracks simply overflow with hooks. I am very selective about the music that I embrace totally (and hence can't throw out lots of lots of names that I dig) but that also applies to classic prog and there's a lot of old prog albums (even the 'greats') that I couldn't care to listen to one more time. And I also have no problems in embracing the crossover side of prog like Radiohead or Muse unlike some progheads. It is these things that have made me wonder if perhaps memorability is itself equated to commercial from a certain point of view. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 04:13
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I don't know if this has been touched on but prog in the seventies was part of a movement and therefore you could follow an evolution of ideas across several bands that were in competition with each other. If you take the last 10 years as 'modern' then this is not so apparent. In terms of what is on this site my favourite albums from the last 10 years are Deadwing (PT) , Aerial (Kate Bush) , Absolution (Muse) , Dreams Of Men (Pallas), The Inconsolable Secret (Glass Hammer) and Purgatorio (Tangerine Dream). These are bands/artists stretching across different sub genres and could hardly just be bundled together as 'prog'. This makes any discussion for me impossible.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 04:19
| ^^^ I wonder if that was the case in the 70s too but the greater awareness about music by a wide variety of artists today makes the divergence more apparent. I don't know what Can could have had in common with Camel or Magma with Strawbs. I am not even accounting for the likes of Art Bears or Henry Cow or the Berlin school of electronic music. It seems to me that in the 70s, symph prog was taken as the archetype of prog in general but in hindsight that may not necessarily be true and there were many bands following an approach divergent from symph prog. |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 08:52
 look i`m of the old watcher of the skies. `70`s progressive music connoisseur. but i`ve gotten a amazing listening for `80`s prog rock. musicians too. the tangent, spock`s beard,flower kings,iq, marillion,fish, po90d,
transatlantic etc. you can find great prog music everywhere.
not   . where see as clowns from those whom don`t listen to PROG ROCK!!!!!. ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 09:26
Of course, I have in mind that British progressive rock movement.
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 15:43
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I don't think I've heard a marillion song that I even liked. I think the only way I'd really like a band forming after 1975 would be if all composing members didn't care for hardly any music post 1983. What are the chances of that? Lol. Any music with a metal influence I can't take seriously ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Stromboil
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 19:54
| I kind of agree. I always try to find new progbands that are active today though, and there are a few I really like, Änglagård being the prime example. I feel they somewhat capture the mood of the mammoths of prog from the 70s (which probably always will be my music of choice) While still having a very unique sound. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 23:14
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I want to find a prog band with zero metal, punk and hip hop influence who don't sound like a copy of one of the old prog bands but who sound like a band from that era ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 23:20
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Thinking Plague ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: October 20 2013 at 00:09
Good call. I'd also suggest Anekdoten & Devil Doll. ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: October 20 2013 at 09:39
| Discipline too for sure. I'm also going to recommend iamthemorning. Although they may not sound much like the old stuff, there's no metal, and their debut does a wonderful job of demonstrating the ability to cover new ground in a pleasantly accessible yet emotionally interesting manner. No metal influence there either. |