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Artists who are more influential than popular

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Topic: Artists who are more influential than popular
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Subject: Artists who are more influential than popular
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 10:19
I've for a long time thought of Captain Beefheart as the epitome of this phenomenon as far as music is concerned. He's nowhere as popular as sometimes-collaborator Frank Zappa if you just look at album sales, but he seems at least as influential. It could also be relevant that many of his followers belong to styles most people don't think of when progressive/psychedelic music is mentiond. In addition to being one of Tom Waits' biggest inspirations, there's also his considerable impact on the more eccentric varieties of punk: The Birthday Party, The Fall, Minutemen, Public Image Ltd. and so on. Not to mention that he played a big part in launching Ry Cooder's career.

It might be a similar case with the bigger Krautrock names other than Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream, at least outside Germany/Austria/Switzerland. Acts like both Amon Düüls, Can, Faust or Neu! do seem to be mentioned most often as sources of inspiration from artists that don't quite belong to the same subcultures or generation as they do... and hence not share that much of the same audience. Not just referring to the aforementioned artsier punk groups, but also newer alternative/indie music that in turn was inspired by them. Sometimes I even think Tangerine Dream could be getting there... I've met a lot of fans of electronic music TD helped pave the way for who still find TDs own sound too old-fashioned.

Then there's how Wishbone Ash inspired many early heavy metal groups like Thin Lizzy and Judas Priest to use the entire duelling lead guitars trope as a major element, but today are rather obscure.

Other artists who come to mind for you?


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"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" - Alexander Solzhenitsyn



Replies:
Posted By: WeepingElf
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 10:31
Karlheinz Stockhausen.



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... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."


Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 10:51
King Crimson are hugely influential, of course.  But not many people realise that, compare with the multiple chart successes of the other 'Big Six' bands in the early 70s, King Crimson were not that popular, in the real sense of multiple chart hits.After their first two albums they never had a Top 10 hit.  Compare this with Pink Floyd, all of whose studio albums were Top 10 hits, or with Yes (9 Top 10 hit albums)


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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 11:07
I'd throw Jeff Beck into the mix even though he's not widely influential or popular by the standards of many others that will be mentioned here, he is often regarded as the guitarists' guitarist and that counts for something.

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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 11:12
Dream Theater


Posted By: Earthmover
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 11:50
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Dream Theater
I don't see it at all.

Silver Apples I guess.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Bequeathed" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 11:57
^ humor......can you see that?


Posted By: Earthmover
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 12:08
oh

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http://www.last.fm/user/Bequeathed" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 12:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'd throw Jeff Beck into the mix even though he's not widely influential or popular by the standards of many others that will be mentioned here, he is often regarded as the guitarists' guitarist and that counts for something.



I quite agree with this.      I saw him perform once as part of B.B. King's Festival of Music, which most people thought of as a festival of Blues. B.B. himself kept making reference to "the great Jeff Beck." Jimi Hendrix could also fall into this category - extremely well known but his record sales were never on par with his notoriety and influence.

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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 12:21
Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

King Crimson are hugely influential, of course.  But not many people realise that, compare with the multiple chart successes of the other 'Big Six' bands in the early 70s, King Crimson were not that popular, in the real sense of multiple chart hits.After their first two albums they never had a Top 10 hit.  Compare this with Pink Floyd, all of whose studio albums were Top 10 hits, or with Yes (9 Top 10 hit albums)

only in the UK though...


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Michael678


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 13:03
Lou Reed?

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I like the music of any era, regardless of when it was made.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 14:22
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'd throw Jeff Beck into the mix even though he's not widely influential or popular by the standards of many others that will be mentioned here, he is often regarded as the guitarists' guitarist and that counts for something.
Approve
 
My friend Bill has been saying that for years but then he's a huge Jeff Beck fan.
 
 


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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 15:12
Terry Riley, David Axelrod, Bert Jansch, It's A Beautiful Day, Fabrizio De Andre, Area. Each influential in different genres.



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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 15:20
Good call on Jeff Beck, he's still nowhere the household name that Hendrix or Page are. I can see where the King Crimson mention is coming from. There's a reason they're nowhere as commercially successful as Genesis or Jethro Tull or Pink Floyd: Most of their music isn't as immediately accessible as many of the other big '60s/'70s UK prog groups. Certainly took much longer for me to get into them than most other groups of their time and generation.

What about Vanilla Fudge? They were one of the earliest bands to fuse rock with classical, but aren't mentioned today as often as Deep Purple, Genesis, Procol Harum when it comes to pioneering that fusion. Not sure they were quite that historically important, though.


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"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 15:22
I can't really think of influence on the wider world of music, but in terms of my own compositions, I'd have to say Kayo Dot and Alcest. Neither are extremely popular, but both have a very very distinct style that is just so unique that if you've heard them it'll just seep into your compositions. Even though they're not my favourite bands, I take more influence from them than Porcupine Tree or Riverside, simply because they have such unique styles.

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LAST.FM: http://www.last.fm/user/gallifrey337
RYM: http://rateyourmusic.com/~Gallifrey


Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 15:25
Alcest's main historical impact on music overall seems to have been getting metalheads into shoegaze and 1980s indie rock in general, but I'm not sure that'll be more than a passing fad.

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"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 21:53
Kraftwerk
every album by Kraftwerk
every song by Kraftwerk
every compilation by Kraftwerk
and every DVD by Kraftwerk


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Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 22:26
I feel like VDGG would fit into this category as well. In their heyday, they only had widespread acclaim in Italy, from what I've heard (correct me f I'm wrong on this). Progheads I know who don't frequent this site are significantly less likely to have heard of them than their 70s contemporaries. But if you look at the number of prog groups and individual musicians who were influenced by that group and Peter Hammill in particular, the lasting influence is undeniable.


Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 22:37
I'd say many of the "just under the radar" bands. Here's a few that come to mind:

Gentle Giant
Van der Graaf Generator
Camel
Magma
Gong
Hawkwind
Caravan
Soft Machine
Tangerine Dream
PFM
Marillion

There are more but those are the most obvious ones imo.


Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 23:04
Originally posted by Neo-Romantic Neo-Romantic wrote:

I feel like VDGG would fit into this category as well. In their heyday, they only had widespread acclaim in Italy, from what I've heard (correct me f I'm wrong on this). Progheads I know who don't frequent this site are significantly less likely to have heard of them than their 70s contemporaries. But if you look at the number of prog groups and individual musicians who were influenced by that group and Peter Hammill in particular, the lasting influence is undeniable.

Good call.  Interesting example, when Marillion 1st appeared on the scene the press assumed Fish was influenced by Gabriel because of the makeup but he actually admitted Peter Hammill was his biggest influence Wink


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I'm using the chicken to measure it.


Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 23:06
Originally posted by Neo-Romantic Neo-Romantic wrote:

I feel like VDGG would fit into this category as well. In their heyday, they only had widespread acclaim in Italy, from what I've heard (correct me f I'm wrong on this). Progheads I know who don't frequent this site are significantly less likely to have heard of them than their 70s contemporaries. But if you look at the number of prog groups and individual musicians who were influenced by that group and Peter Hammill in particular, the lasting influence is undeniable.

Good call.  Interesting example, when Marillion 1st appeared on the scene the press assumed Fish was influenced by Gabriel because of the makeup but he actually admitted Peter Hammill was his biggest influence Wink


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I'm using the chicken to measure it.


Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 23:34
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Lou Reed?
yeah except he's really popular


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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: November 16 2013 at 23:37
can

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The greatest record label of all time!


Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 00:05
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Neo-Romantic Neo-Romantic wrote:

I feel like VDGG would fit into this category as well. In their heyday, they only had widespread acclaim in Italy, from what I've heard (correct me f I'm wrong on this). Progheads I know who don't frequent this site are significantly less likely to have heard of them than their 70s contemporaries. But if you look at the number of prog groups and individual musicians who were influenced by that group and Peter Hammill in particular, the lasting influence is undeniable.

Good call.  Interesting example, when Marillion 1st appeared on the scene the press assumed Fish was influenced by Gabriel because of the makeup but he actually admitted Peter Hammill was his biggest influence Wink

Thank you sir Handshake

And that definitely gives me some major incentive to check out Marillion. Gosh, I'm behind LOL



Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 03:45
Originally posted by paganinio paganinio wrote:

Kraftwerk


I think they're about the only historically important Krautrock group who don't qualify. Well, maybe among people who only listen to newer music, but don't almost everyone who's serious about music admit KW are one of the most influential music groups of the past 40 years?

Now, a band like Hawkwind or Van der Graaf Generator whom others mentioned... that's more like it. Neither has become more than a cult band and still had most of their influence on scenes that didn't exist until long after either group's agreed "golden age". HW in particular seem to have inspired punk more than anything overtly prog/psych, until the jam band revival and stoner rock movements of the 1990s which were often strongly indebted to the Hawks.

By the way I can't believe I haven't mentioned 13th Floor Elevators or Roky Erickson in general for that matter. I think 13FE were the first music group to call their own output "psychedelic rock". They clearly influenced The Doors, Jefferson Airplane and Pink Floyd but never became anywhere as popular.


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"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 04:15
Arthur Brown, he influenced Alice Cooper and Peter Gabriel to do theatrics on stage, there have a foot in the invention of shock rock,

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Acting on your best behaviour
Turn your back on mother nature
Everybody wants to rule the world


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 04:30
Someone will mention Clouds and Billy Ritchie so it might as well be meTongue

Tangerine dream were very popular in the seventies and were still charting in the UK up to 1984 so I'm not sure how they could be considered not popular although they were certainly influential.




Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 04:35
Many fans of electronic music I've met can't get into TD because their music is either too closely rooted in progressive/psychedelic rock and 20th century classical, or too technologically primitive.


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"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 04:43
Gentle f++++++ Giant . Talk about deathly underrated

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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 04:56
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Gentle f++++++ Giant . Talk about deathly underrated
maybe, but not influential either.

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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:19
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Gentle f++++++ Giant . Talk about deathly underrated

maybe, but not influential either.

If they are not influential. Its a damn shame!!

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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:30
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Gentle f++++++ Giant . Talk about deathly underrated

maybe, but not influential either.

If they are not influential. Its a damn shame!!
probably, Derek Shulman on the otherhand was, and still is, very influential in the music industry.

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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 10:55
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Gentle f++++++ Giant . Talk about deathly underrated
maybe, but not influential either.
Yet one reads where bands claim influence from them...and Haken ( as well as other bands like Spocks Beard when Morse was with them) have used their vocal multiple part vocal  acapella things on the new one.
maybe not a huge influence but influence nevertheless.

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Et In Arcadia Ego


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 11:06
Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Lou Reed?
yeah except he's really popular


The Velvet Underground are perhaps the ultimate "artists who are more influential than popular". Every kid who ever went to see a gig with The Velvets later on formed his/her own band, or so the legend goes. I do think there's some truth in that statement though...


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 11:22
I think KC is the perfect example; hugely influential yet the masses don't get a chance to hear their brilliance. The same goes for Peter Hammill!!

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A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!


Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 11:47
Some bands and artists that have been influenced by Gentle Giant are Neal Morse, Spock's Beard, Echolyn, Beardfish and Haken.


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In a place where nothing is real, let me tell you how I feel.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 11:57
Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:

I quite agree with this.      I saw him perform once as part of B.B. King's Festival of Music, which most people thought of as a festival of Blues. B.B. himself kept making reference to "the great Jeff Beck." Jimi Hendrix could also fall into this category - extremely well known but his record sales were never on par with his notoriety and influence.
 
Bzuh? You are completely misinformed on Hendrix.
 
His three original studio albums, the Smash Hits greatest hits package and the live Band of Gypsys were all in the top ten in both the UK and the States during their original releases (Electric Ladyland was a #1 album for a couple weeks in 1968), and all have since gone multiple platinum. His post-humous rereleases have also sold extremely well; in fact the latest People, Hell and Angels went to #2 on the Billboard charts in 2012. Hendrix was not only influential, but a rock superstar during his short life.


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Please pay a visit to my blog... http://darkelffile.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Dark Elf File ...a slighty skewed journal of music reviews, literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.


Posted By: surrogate people
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 18:42
Of course it all depends on what we call "popular" and "influential". King Crimson are relatively popular even if they never achieved platinum status. I could think of Nick Drake, who died without knowing success but influenced much more known artists such as Kate Bush, Robert Smith or even Mikael Akerfeldt. Five leaves left is a really beautiful album, quite progressive in its own way. 

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We don`t see things as they are, we see them as we are...but Pablo Picasso was never called an a****le!


Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: November 17 2013 at 20:58
I'd toss Blue Oyster Cult into this mix too. I don't really know how popular they ever became, but I'm under the impression that their popularity was small and brief. However, they've certainly had plenty of influences inside and outside the prog world.


Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: November 18 2013 at 00:03
Originally posted by Metalmarsh89 Metalmarsh89 wrote:

I'd toss Blue Oyster Cult into this mix too. I don't really know how popular they ever became, but I'm under the impression that their popularity was small and brief. However, they've certainly had plenty of influences inside and outside the prog world.

Blue Oyster Cult became huge in the US after "Don't Fear the Reaper" and were playing the mega-stadium concert circuit circa 1978.  Before that, I'd say they were bigger than a cult following though rarely heard on radio.  When MTV hit they got some decent video play with "Burning for You" but I don't think they ever recaptured the huge audience that came to them because of Reaper...


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I'm using the chicken to measure it.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 18 2013 at 01:41
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Many fans of electronic music I've met can't get into TD because their music is either too closely rooted in progressive/psychedelic rock and 20th century classical, or too technologically primitive.

Perhaps you need to point them in the direction of Poland or Kyoto or other later releases even? . I'm not a fan of their earlier stuff (pre Ricochet) either.


Posted By: AndreaStagni
Date Posted: November 18 2013 at 06:35
In my opinion It Bites (in their original lineup) is one of those.

A.


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www.altaviamusic.com


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 18 2013 at 12:47

This is a very tough subject, as it would be much easier to say that different things happened in different places that made it more valuable and interesting all the while.

I'm of the opinion that English Film and Theater, was very important and influential between 1955 and 1965 and that it eventually took form in music. After this, I would say American Film was an influence. All of these can find threads in the wording and feelings, and even influence in the music itself.

I would think that France was pretty independent, but more open to weirdness than most folks around us. I don't think that a Heldon would have gotten released in London, because of its hardcore approach to music, which is something that Melody Maker and other magazines in London used to trash so well, including Tangerine Dream, and any bands that did not suit their definition of rock/pop/blues in music!

One other thread that runs through and is still ignored for the most part, is that the beginning of Pink Floyd and Soft Machine are tied to a house where many dignitaries lived for a while and shared more than just food and shelter. It also included various actors and actresses. And while there is a taboo about sex, there is no secret that one was gay, the other was picking up boys, and one other was making sure he scored on all the ladies and the wives! Both of these bands, and the following "Canterbury" design, was quite open musically in the style that this all came from. It's called "beat poetry" and folks like Robert Wyatt still live by it, regardless of how weird and different it is! Daevid Allen is the Ken Kesey of rock (progressive) music!

It's too easy for us to think that one is more influential than the other, but I sincerely do not think that anyone was more important in terms of lyrics, than Bob Dylan, and I find it strange that he was dis-regarded, specially when so many folks went out of their way to show this to the whole world. He is now accepted, but the influence is more on the lyrical side than musical side and it is "hidden", so to speak.

Of the less known variety, I would say Peter Hammill and Van der Graaf Generator, who are NOW, revered, but weren't in the early days, and I can tell you that for anyone around Southern California I have ever heard, I can count on one finger how many folks played his music, and he was my roomate at the time and continued to play his work even after I was gone. And I have a recording of one of the other guys on the station saying it was weird, but getting better about the album "Still Life" ... which kinda tells you how "still" their life was already centered around hit radio and top ten ... and this was a number one FM station!

The LA area, had its "big names", but of the "underground", I would say that the best influence of all was the "LA FREE PRESS" who was always given credit for being a troublemaker, but in the end, they were the ones that brought you history, when recognized a few years later! They were single handedly responsible for Frank Zappa's survival for some time until he finally hit the big time a bit later. We're talking 1968/1969 and 1970. Likewise the other wordsmiths at the time, would be the Firesign Theater in that area with the clever wording and well designed stuff satirising radio and television. They never got the credit they probably should have, but comedy is not appreciated in the "progressive" music circles, and The Goons were a huge influence on the Beatles, which you can not enjoy or appreciate until you listen to the 7 Beatles Christmas shows, and later them all having fun with Spike Milligan and Peter Sellers, in various affairs.

The Firesign Theater, in LA, if it can be said, became a sort of "symbol" for what was hip and cool and neat, and unffortunately the music for the housewives took over by the new owners of the FM stations that all sold out to the huge conglomerates, which made the study of "influence" a lot more difficult.

I can not, speak fluently the language of New York. So far, the only book I have read that is really with it, and more than clear about it's scene, is the one by Patti Smith, that you FINALLY, get the feeling that you were there! As much of the New York writers as I have read from the 1950's and 1960's, none of them are as valuable, as the bullsh*t that Andy Warhol became. And yet, you can look at Lou Reed, John Cale, and many other musicians as being influential in NY, but none of us has ever spent enough time finding out what all the bruhaha was about. In many ways, some movies tell an interesting story that we have a hard time seeing, and can not find (it's a movie?), but the similarities are still there. Hard living, etc etc.

Lastly, a lot of folks dismiss the strength and work of a lot of literature and how it affected things. If you EVER have a chance to see the film "The Trip" about Ken Kesey, you will see a very nice wonderful quote towards the end ... that is the most important part of it all and defines the difference between an "artist" and "everyone else".

It says (paraphrased) ... "... in the end, we were afraid, of experience, and learning! It wasn't the drugs."

And guess what most bands and crappy music ended up stuck on? Not the value, but the crap!



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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 18 2013 at 14:28
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Many fans of electronic music I've met can't get into TD because their music is either too closely rooted in progressive/psychedelic rock and 20th century classical, or too technologically primitive.

Perhaps you need to point them in the direction of Poland or Kyoto or other later releases even? . I'm not a fan of their earlier stuff (pre Ricochet) either.


Thing is, I find TD's 1980s output to sound more dated than their 1970s records for some reason. Of course this is more a matter of personal comfort zones than anything else, and they do seem to have regularly modernized their sound on a regular basis. It's just that I think Poland's sound screams "1980s" in a way Ricochet's doesn't scream "1970s" loudly.

Also, as usual moshkito's post about how the innovations in music and how they fit into the greater cultural context of its day - this time concerning the people who were influential on the extra-musical factors behind prog history - is well worth the time reading.


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"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: November 18 2013 at 18:28
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'd throw Jeff Beck into the mix even though he's not widely influential or popular by the standards of many others that will be mentioned here, he is often regarded as the guitarists' guitarist and that counts for something.
Approve
 
My friend Bill has been saying that for years but then he's a huge Jeff Beck fan.

I never really understood the guitar hero worship for Jeff Beck, not into fusion so his most well known 70's work doesn't interest me...then I saw this a few months ago and was really impressed...certainly the coolest cover of A Day in the Life I've ever heard Clap



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I'm using the chicken to measure it.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 19 2013 at 01:25
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Many fans of electronic music I've met can't get into TD because their music is either too closely rooted in progressive/psychedelic rock and 20th century classical, or too technologically primitive.

Perhaps you need to point them in the direction of Poland or Kyoto or other later releases even? . I'm not a fan of their earlier stuff (pre Ricochet) either.


Thing is, I find TD's 1980s output to sound more dated than their 1970s records for some reason. Of course this is more a matter of personal comfort zones than anything else, and they do seem to have regularly modernized their sound on a regular basis. It's just that I think Poland's sound screams "1980s" in a way Ricochet's doesn't scream "1970s" loudly.

Also, as usual moshkito's post about how the innovations in music and how they fit into the greater cultural context of its day - this time concerning the people who were influential on the extra-musical factors behind prog history - is well worth the time reading.

Ok I seeSmile To me anything with Mellotrons sounds dated but actually that isn't a 'problem' as I see it. I also like the retro approach TD have taken on recent albums.

Yep Moshkito can be very good to read when he isn't talking down to peopleWink


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 19 2013 at 09:26
Quote
...Also, as usual moshkito's post about how the innovations in music and how they fit into the greater cultural context of its day - this time concerning the people who were influential on the extra-musical factors behind prog history - is well worth the time reading.
 
Thanks a bunch. I try my best, but this is one area that's really hard to discuss in a pop music board, when folks do not go to movies, theater, concerts (except their favorite beat (off?), or have any inkling that there are many other arts out there other than American Idol or English Hero or Italian Goon!
 
Quote
...
Yep Moshkito can be very good to read when he isn't talking down to peopleWink
 
I only like to kick the high heels and watch them fall. It's lots of fun! And a great laugh. On top of it I learned it from Monty Python and the high kicking antics which were perfect for that! Don't blame me. Blame them boogers!
 
If they were quoting Shakespeare I probably wouldn't care. But if they are quoting the telephone book or the top ten list, then yeah ... it's fun!
 
NP: Mother Gong - Wild Child


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Glimmung
Date Posted: November 20 2013 at 19:12
Magma!!!!! They spawned an entire genre. Not to mention most of the bands that formed in their wake are almost all excellent.


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 20 2013 at 21:36
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

Arthur Brown, he influenced Alice Cooper and Peter Gabriel to do theatrics on stage, there have a foot in the invention of shock rock,

Excellent!  I was going to suggest Alice Cooper myself....I saw his "School's Out" Chicago show in Chicago, 28 July, 1972 with Captain Beyond opening the show!  The theatrics employed were amazing, and, for that era, a bit shocking (Alice hanging himself onstage). 

Actually, by the OP's criteria, Alice might not count, as they were hugely popular and financially successful.  

In the USA, the band MC5 is credited as influencing many heavy metal, punk and hard rock acts.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MC5" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MC5


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: November 20 2013 at 21:51
Jade Warrior is often cited for influence but was only barely a cult group



Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 23 2013 at 15:51
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

Arthur Brown, he influenced Alice Cooper and Peter Gabriel to do theatrics on stage, there have a foot in the invention of shock rock,

Excellent!  I was going to suggest Alice Cooper myself....I saw his "School's Out" Chicago show in Chicago, 28 July, 1972 with Captain Beyond opening the show!  The theatrics employed were amazing, and, for that era, a bit shocking (Alice hanging himself onstage). 
...
 
I am not sure that a song that got your rox going, and spoke for all the things you did not like in your high school is a good choice for this. Even I, bought the album for it! AND I was already out of high school, but the song spoke for a voice that I still had and some of the sad/disgusting things that happened to me in high school, with teachers that are better fit to be garbage collectors, than they are instructors for children!
 
Shock rock was around for a lot longer, and even Elvis was a serious problem. The TV set would NEVER shoot or film anything from his waste on down, because it was considered lewd. And of course, the movies took that and sensationalized it even more, until it got to the 60's and we didn't care anymore, and saw many musicians do a lot more than just swing their butt! And women, too!
 
I like to say that "shock" has been a part of theater and film for hundreds of years. And of course, there is no better "shock" than Orson Welles, that got a whole country scared poopless in America! That ought to tell you how intelligently gullible the majority of the audience really was and is capable of being, which STILL is an issue today!
 
But hidden artists, or those who were not quite known, I do think that we have to go back the the beginning of the century to give you a good description, but not mentioning the film maker that aimed a gun at your face in the film and shot ... and half the audience screamed and walked out ... means you have no idea!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com



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