Ukraine
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Topic: Ukraine
Posted By: LSDisease
Subject: Ukraine
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 11:55
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It's almost a civil war over there now. But one thing is really interesting. Who finances that riot? Possible answers The European Union : they want to expand their influence in Europe. Russia: they provoke the conflict to divide Ukrainian society because it's easier to control a divided nation. International Monetary Fund (inspired by the US and possibly the EU): because they need more borrowers as Romania and Hungary are no longer interested in loans that create an extra debt. USA: American government who wants to control shale gas fields in the western part of Ukraine, which is possible after Ukraine signed $10 billion shale gas deal with American company Chevron. Common people: after propaganda spread in media "Ukrainians want freedom". Of course media create that image for political purposes Any other ideas? ------------- "Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!" |
Replies:
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:01
| All of them. |
Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:04
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yeah it's possible
------------- "Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!" |
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:20
I'm afraid that that kind of scenario is way too hard for Russian government  Really, you have to live here to understand how lame the Russian government is.Actually, the whole Eastern Ukraine is on pro-Russian positions and the Western Ukraine is on more nationalist side. That's been this way for more than twenty years. Both parties are almost equally influential, so sometimes pro-Russian parties take control over Ukraine and sometimes the nationalists do so. The Russian intention is of course to have influence on Ukrainian politics, but rather by lobbying the already existing pro-Russian side. ------------- This night wounds time. |
LSDisease wrote:Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:31
Objectively speaking, Russian government is pretty well organized and influential. At least in comparsion with other governments in Eastern Europe. It's better for Ukraine to stay where they are. The EU is deader than dead. ------------- "Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!" |
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:44
Ahh, it's still quite influential but it's barely well-organized. During the past few years the State Duma is getting more and more idiotic and every political desicion or adopted law could be done in a dramatically different (and smarter) way. Honestly, the political life in Russia looks more like a circus than any conscious form of ruling apparatus. As for Ukraine, I don't support nor pro-Russian, nor pro-EU party. I just never lived there and I can't judge what would be the better way for their country. ------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:45
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Oh yippee, another pointless conspiracy conspiracy. ------------- What? |
Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:50
There's no stupider law than the one being created in the EU offices. Trust me. ------------- "Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!" |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 13:12
 ------------- 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 13:12
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I'm not convinced anyone is 'funding the riots' That's not so say that uprisings are never influenced and part funded by outside parties. I've not been following the problems in Ukraine very closely, but it appears - from the outside - that the majority want EU membership and don't want to go backwards into Russias sphere of influence. Not that the EU is a great bet right now..  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 13:42
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You forgot about the possibility of an extraterrestrial funding. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 14:00
Yes, of course. Conspiracy theories are hatched by government operatives to make the 'official line' on anything seem more credible...  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 14:12
Conspiracies are then hatched by the targets of conspiracy theories to make the official conspiracy a little less conspiratorial...  -------------
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 23 2014 at 14:40
I think that comrade Stalin made mistake due to Galitzia wasn't republic in USSR. In that case, Galitzia would be an independet state now, as for example Moldova, and everything be quiet up there. But who could have know in advance, even Stalin could not have to know that. Thus, Ukraine will forever be at dangerous seesaw between Russia and EU (NATO). |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 24 2014 at 04:16
Then the original conspiritors make sure that the more seemigly plausible conspiracy theories are always juxtoposed in the media - which they obviously control - with obviously ridicuouls theories - the queen is a lizard, the moonlanding was shot in Nevada etc etc - to detract crebility from them...  Complex isn't it... ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: January 24 2014 at 04:31
Eastern Galicia wouldn't be an independent state, it would be Polish same as the Western Galicia is. Stalin didn't want that. ------------- "Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!" |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: January 24 2014 at 04:49
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The most insightful http://takimag.com/article/pity_the_poor_ukrainians_scott_locklin/print#ixzz2nP1TXHqu" rel="nofollow - English-language overview of the political situation in Ukraine that I've read so far comes from oddly enough the usually hit-and-miss, and almost always cranky, right-libertarian webzine Taki's Magazine. Then again it's a guest contribution from Scott Locklin who's one of my favourite bloggers rather than one of their regular columnists.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: January 24 2014 at 23:13
I have some Ukrainian friends. Horrible proxy conflict going on there. Good luck to them. 
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: January 27 2014 at 14:23
All of them are wrong: the riots are financed by the FEMEN!  |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 06:10
Personally, I believe it's the fault of an extra-terrestrial Marxist (and therefore racist) feminist movement funding the riots to convert the Ukraine to capitalism. There - that should tick all the boxes, can we close the thread now please? -------------  Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 10:11
Ha, I knew it!
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 10:13
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Extra-terrestrials can't be feminists because they are gender neutral, and they can't be Marxists because they are class neutral. So if they are funding this whom Ukraine thing is out of some particular interest in conquering Kiev and make it the first bastion for their upcoming invasion or something... -------------
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 11:03
Of course, you haven't considered who in turn may be funding the extra-terrestrials... ------------- Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 11:19
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I'm getting tired of all this Earthism and the blaming of other planet's peoples... Earthists should have no place in a forum like this. -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 13:57
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 14:14
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 15:07
 I should have remember that legendary moment (what Seinfeld moment wasn't?) -------------
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 15:34
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There is an old Eastern/Central European joke that goes something like this "When you live between The Germans on one side and the Russians on the other, you hide your women and your alcohol." Enough said.
Which of course, also explains my edited avatar
 ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 16:07
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In England we only have to hide our sheep and our alcohol. ------------- What? |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 16:28
You should move here to Wales, Dean. We shag our sheep whilst drinking a damned good pint of Cwrw. No wonder I became a citizen here Of course, the said sheep are completely behind the present problems in Ukraine. Bloody Trots, eh? ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 16:32
But you don't have Cossacks and Huns around you.... the UK lies between an ocean and.. an ocean... Are pirates still around in your area?  -------------
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 16:34
Only the robbing b*****ds in Westminster and Whitehall  ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 17:27
Ah, Teo. You fell into that Americanism of regarding England as the whole island. I was very specific in stating England and not Great Britain. If I do the complete substitution into Thomas's quote you (and Steve ) will see things a little differently: "When you live between The Welsh on one side and the Scots on the other, you hide your sheep and your alcohol." Enough said. ------------- What? |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 17:31
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Point taken -------------
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 28 2014 at 17:49
Enough said, indeed ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: March 02 2014 at 06:10
Is it going to be the 3rd world war?!
And so close to our bordedrs... And to think we were planning to visit Crimea with our Ukrainian friends on holidays... ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: March 02 2014 at 06:24
And this was posted by my bro on FB:
I wholeheartedly agree! ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: March 02 2014 at 11:19
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Actually Crimea is Russian. It became a part of Ukraine during the cold war period and USSR reign. ------------- "Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!" |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: March 02 2014 at 11:40
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^ Actually, it's neither Ukrainian nor Russian but Tatar. Russians conquired it and later the Soviets threw them out and killed. But some of them returned. And it's true that Crimea was given to Ukraine after the II WW by Nikita Khrushchev (an Ukrainian BTW). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev#cite_note-pronunciation-1" rel="nofollow - ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 02 2014 at 11:43
Yes, this is correct. Khrushchev had a great affinity for Ukraine as he governed the "republic" under Stalin. The ceding of Crimea to Ukraine was of course mostly symbolic in the days of the USSR. However, the region has always been critical to the Soviets and Russians mostly due to the naval base that hosts their Black Sea fleet. I'm sure Russia would love to simply "have" the base rather than lease it from the Ukrainians. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 02 2014 at 18:26
| Some of my Ukrainian friends believe that Ukraine should be two countries, because there are significant differences between the two regions. For example, my Ukrainian friend from the Western part of the country doesn't speak Russian, while the Ukrainian friend from the Eastern part does not speak Ukrainian. One attends his local Greek Catholic Church, while the other attends the local Russian Orthodox Church. A clear separation in culture, in heritage and in mindset. One looks more towards Germany and Poland, while the other looks to Russia. |
Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: March 03 2014 at 07:19
60% of Crimeans are Russians ------------- "Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!" |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: March 05 2014 at 11:58
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We all know Russia has had a long, cold relationship with "The West" and that Russia is currently a USSR lite, out to maintain control of its old states. Soooo this all has been right in line with that Is a bad situation over there, if it means peace...Crimea is already heavily Russian, give it up to Russia perhaps? I know there is a better chance of me flying to the moon with my arms than this happening :( I believe polls have shown that slowly, ALL of Ukraine is moving away from the Russian sphere (obviously the Western areas much more so, but even the more pro Russian areas have seen slow progress). I'd like to see the country hold its own and build it's own identity, but with the bear waking up and being a bit pissy...
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 10 2014 at 06:04
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The bear is awakening and it's no coincidence that it is doing so at a time when western countries are cutting military spending, are over stretched militarily abroad, up to their eyes in debt and despite modest cosmetic upturns in GDP, are running an ultimately unsustainable economic model based around the acruement of ever increasing mountains of debt. Russia knows that the wests options for dealing with this crisis are limited. A military response is not on the table for blindingly obvious reasons. We can hurl sanctions at the Russians but these days they can easily respond in kind. The EU gets a third of its gas from Russia and these days our stock markets - unlike the cold war years - are joined at the hip. Russia collapses, the EU collapses, then the US then Asia. Russia are holding more aces than many of us realise. Putin is a shrewd character with alove of the way things were back in the good ole days, and he is clearly trying to cut himself another slice of Soviet pie, and in reality there is Bo Diddly we can do about it. If this Ukranian adventure goes well for Russia then expect to see them trying to claw back some other former territories in the years ahead. Expect also to see the west start to squander more on its military in response. I suspect Russia is getting jittery about us sticking missile defence sheilds in their former territories, helping to overthrow their allies in the Middle East and encircling them by attempting to pull eastern European states into the EU and/or NATO. The plan is coming apart for the wests 'New World Order' if you can call it that. We are having a run in with our competitor for world dominance, but it won't result in an actual world war. World wars will be fought in the stock markets, and by proxy in the form of manufactured coups and civil wars. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 10 2014 at 15:25
Dead on correct analysis, Blackie! The West foolishly likes to see Russia through their rose-colored sunglass expectations! Silly! A zebra is a not a white 'horse' with black stripes one day and a black 'horse' with white stripes the next. ITS A ZEBRA! In Russia, the culture DEMANDS a strongman, a Peter the Great, an Ivan the Terrible, Rasputin, Lenin, Stalin and now a Putin. We all love Gorby in the West but he was and is despised in today's Russia. If you have any doubts just ask the Poles, Czechs, Hungarians and yes, Russians on our site. They know what is going on! This is old Russia , not a new one!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 13 2014 at 08:38
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Russia masses 80,000 troops on Ukrainian border as well as large amounts of military hardware.. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579168/Ukraine-warns-scale-invasion-Russia-moves-artillery-close-borders-Kiev-security-chief-says-Putins-troops-run-three-hours.html" rel="nofollow - DM article ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: March 13 2014 at 08:57
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I am somewhat baffled as to why anyone would choose to become part of Russia knowing its history and such, but if a legitimate vote is put to the people and they vote to cede to Russia, then I don't necessarily see what the problem is. That being said, Democracy tends to only be the best method when you are in the majority and we get the results that we want. ------------- 
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: March 13 2014 at 09:02
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Looks like the usual "football-hooligans-like" war. Then: don't forget what happened to Yulia Timoshenko and to her husband before her don't forget the kind of silent dictatorship that Yanokovic and friends were about to put in place but also... don't forget the abolition of Russian as second official language in Ukraine as first act of the new government. There can be a design behind, but there's also a lot of stupidity. A joke: If Putin accepted to host Yanukovic in change of Crimea, do you think that "Sicily" will be enough to convince him to keep Berlusconi, too? ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 13 2014 at 11:55
Yeah, a calculated assault by Putin no doubt. I can hardly admire his intentions to say the least, but the timing is brilliant. I think he is going to play a wait and watch game, see how much squatting he can get away with and expand the Russian empire inch by inch all over again.
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: March 13 2014 at 12:04
And all the talks in poli sci classes at college about how Russia is basically a Soviet Union lite and wants to retake all their lands that we dismissed as "Well sounds kind of right and all, but a bit paranoid...we don't want to sound like hateful Americans!" may be more true than we wished to realize. Though as said well in the first post...major wars these days are economic. I'd ask why is Russia even doing any of this when they could just change slowly dominate economically, but as always...intl relations is a sickening, elitist game...power drunk maniacs flexing balls and moving their little pieces around
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 13 2014 at 19:54
| Well, it seems Russia have been using their newfound oil riches to restart all those factories which had gone to sleep in the Yelstin years. Now they have reached the limits of that strategy and cannot grow without fresh investment. Somebody, probably the Russian finance minister, estimated 1% growth on average at best for the next 20 years. So whisking away countries like Ukraine is one strategy for Putin to get out of this mess. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 13 2014 at 20:55
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Empirical attitude is as old as Mother Russia herself ! It was the czars that invaded first Central Asia and then the Far East, invaded Mongolia, tried to occupy Iran and Afghanistan, as well as swallowing the Baltics. It tried eating Finland but the hard-nosed Finns spanked them hard (twice) . Losing Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia and East Germany was a hard, hard blow that is still bitterly felt. Bullying is an old trait that has not disappeared from the ex-KGB man. The fact that his fortune is estimated to be 40 billion is quietly forgotten. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 13 2014 at 23:43
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http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/mar/06/ukraine-crisis-great-power-oil-gas-rivals-pipelines" rel="nofollow - http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/mar/06/ukraine-crisis-great-power-oil-gas-rivals-pipelines
A good article about this whole crisis. It's all about the oil and the gas!!!!
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 13 2014 at 23:59
ITS ALWAYS about the Oil and the Gas! Except Afghanistan , let us not forget , one of the only places on the planet where 4 nuclear powers meet, explaining why the USA and UK are around checking out the neighborhood!  ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 14 2014 at 00:41
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Former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said that what is happening in the Crimea is a violation of international law and admitted to the NATO attack on Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in 1999. that was also a violation of international law . " What is happening in the Crimea is a violation of international law ," said Schroeder in Hamburg at a meeting of the weekly " Die Zeit " , while not wishing to criticize Russian President Vladimir Putin. Schroeder , however , said that as German chancellor in the Yugoslav conflict violates international law . " That's where we sent our planes to Serbia (i.e. Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) and together with NATO forces bombed a sovereign state, and at the same time there was not a decision of the UN Security Council" Schroeder said , stressing that he was so careful with the "Raising forefinger , "and that in both cases formally a violation of the UN Charter . Schroeder showed skepticism when it comes to the motives of the former head of the Ukrainian government of Yulia Tymoshenko and , noting that no one knows what kind of material interests she has, warned of the danger that financial support , for which it stands , went the wrong channel . In the Ukrainian crisis Schroeder again criticized the European Union and said that leadership of the European Commission did not realize that Ukraine is one kulturološksi divided country . " I wonder if it was the right one culturally divided country such as Ukraine , to put before the alternative - Association Agreement with the EU or a customs union with Russia ," said Schroeder . |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 14 2014 at 00:54
That war is about oil as well! But also control of the world's opium and heroin supplies!!!!
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 14 2014 at 01:33
Few people actually know that NATO took Kosovo from Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (now Republic of Serbia) due to the vast mineral wealth of the local territory. Although unexplored until the end , mineral resources in Kosovo in recent years draws more and more attention to the domestic and global public . An increasing number of foreign companies that deal assessments of existing and potential mineral deposits in Kosovo. The corporations from the NATO members countries are the most interesting in quantities of precious and rare metals - silver, gold and platinum , indium , germanium , thallium , selenium , tellurium , rubidium - used in new technologies , in the airline industry and missile industries . And while the world's experts estimate that the value of deposits of zinc , silver, lead , nickel and some other so-called strategic minerals in Kosovo exceeds the value of 1.000 billion U.S. dollars , that equally important is ore reserves of lignite. According to the claims of many interlocutors " news " in the area of Kosovo has so far tested about 19 billion tons of coal that could be illuminating the whole of Europe within the next hundred years . Although lignite tested in the area of the central part of the province , it is assumed that it is far more in the area of Metohija around Kačanik village. The reserves of lead-zinc ores are found in the mines "Hajvalia" , "Rainwater" and "Old Square" , while it is estimated that the mine "Novo Brdo" has copper and gold, copper and manganese are spread throughout Prokletija mountains . Bauxite ore is found around Klina town , while , for example , reserves ferronickel around Glogoc estimated at fifteen million tons . At the same time , the area of Djakovica and Orahovac towns are deposits of chrome and magnesite in Goles mountain. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 14 2014 at 01:42
I've not read a single report of economic prosperity in Kosovo or the former Yugoslav republics. It seems that our wealthy US ogliarchs are benefitting mightily these days. I've read a statistic somewhere that the real unemployment for the US is almost 20% and if you count marginalized people, the underemployed and people struggling, it's 40%.. Once they boost military spending and put more debt on our backs, that statistic might explode.... I was thinking of relocating to where some of my relatives live (Singapore), but that's not entirely secure either these days with the rumblings of a new Cold War in Asia between the US and China... Maybe I'll get a job in Uruguay, they legalized some good green stuff and they're a peaceful, pacifist country!
 It seems that our futures are quite dim these days.... |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 14 2014 at 01:52
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 14 2014 at 02:14
| I also heard that Kosovo is also a depot for organ and slave trafficking into Europe. Since you live closer to Kosovo, do you know anything about that? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 14 2014 at 02:23
Serbia was investigating reports that Kosovar Albanian terrorists have been selling human organs of kidnapped Serbs to western countries since the 1998-99 conflict.
The investigative judge wants to interrogate Carla del Ponte and Florence Hartmann, former ICTY spokeswoman, regarding the fate of the kidnapped Kosovo Serbs. Both Del Ponte and Hartmann have stated during the past years that UNMIK officials have blocked the investigation. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 14 2014 at 02:28
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(Reuters) - China's top envoy to Germany has warned the West against punishing Russia with sanctions for its intervention in Ukraine, saying such measures could lead to a dangerous chain reaction that would be difficult to control. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/us-ukraine-crisis-china-idUSBREA2C0PB20140313" rel="nofollow - Reuters ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 14 2014 at 02:38
Interesting reports, but now there are reports emerging from several online sources detailing about Andrey Parubiy, who is the interim leader of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine, who might have been involved in the sniper shootings via support from US secret service groups. The interesting thing to have him in any position of power, because he was the founder of the Ukrainian Social National Party, who is the precursor to the much more milder far-right party Svoboda. Just for reference, many here might recognize this symbol immediately if any of their family members fought the Nazis:
 If anyone is offended by this symbol, I'll remove it immediately (I'm trying to prove a point here). Interesting coming after the leaked conversation between Catherine Ashton and the Estonian FM Paet....
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 15 2014 at 11:56
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Serbian fascists ( "chetniks" ), as Putin's fans at check point at Crimea, 2014  Chetniks with Nazi officers, Yugoslavia ( Serbia ) 1944. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 15 2014 at 15:23
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Referendum day tomorrow. I think we all know how the voting will go.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 16 2014 at 11:50
It seems like extremists are there in both sides... Let's hope one of them doesn't pull the trigger.
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 16 2014 at 11:51
Crimea shouldn't be part of Ukraine in my opinion. My Ukrainian friends says the whole place is very Russian anyways, but NATO wants that Black Sea presence due to vast oil and gas fields in the sea..
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 14:49
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/25/shooting-far-right-leader-tensions-ukraine" rel="nofollow - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/25/shooting-far-right-leader-tensions-ukraine
Ugh oh... Why are our governments going to sent these people more money?!?! This is crazy, this sounds like a targeted assassination....
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 14:58
We have a history of backing radical lunatics to further our own ends. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 15:12
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It was impressive that while EU/US etc. were debating on how illegal the referendum and Russia's actions are etc. etc., Russia has already annexed the territory and game over. No matter how much discussion is going to go on, this is a done deal. And we have seen examples of how powerless UN and EU are already so I have no doubts this whole matter is settled and we move on. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 15:39
It's not like anything since the interim government came anything is done "legally". Remember Yanukovych was voted in by the electorate and now there's no real central government. There are videos showing that armed militia are the ones in charge in many places...
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 15:50
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I would say this is not exactly ideal, but in a warped way it works out...If Russia wants Crimea so bad (and if they wanted to be Russia) then OK, and now Ukraine can maybe be more independent, with the pro Russian area no longer part of Ukraine. I heard in response to all this Ukraine was going to try to strengthen ties with the EU. I WOULD say all that, except I fear Russia isn't done :( :( If it stays like this though, well...guess it's better than alternatives.... |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 16:14
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It's ok now. Theres a solution: http://news.msn.com/offbeat/ukrainian-women-have-started-a-hilarious-campaign-to-deny-sex-to-russian-men" rel="nofollow - http://news.msn.com/offbeat/ukrainian-women-have-started-a-hilarious-campaign-to-deny-sex-to-russian-men ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 16:14
| The problem is that the two opposition sides in Ukraine were never really independent to begin with. The current interim authorities in Kiev are reliant on support from the US and the EU, while the older authorities' industrial base in the East relies on Russian markets.... I can see both sides trying to stir up instability in Ukraine (which is exactly what they have done). I can see a massive war breaking out in this region anytime soon.... |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 16:38
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I strongly believe in people's self determination. If Crimeans have decided to join Russia let's them do, it's their right..... ..... But now let's speak a bit about Chechnya... and why not...Tibet, Kurdistan, Uighuristan, Ulster and Basque Country. ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 16:49
Agreed. And also strangely enough the western powers had no real objections to the overthrow of the government; I doubt they were expecting things to move in the opposite direction. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 25 2014 at 18:35
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: March 26 2014 at 20:51
Yeah but who is... Everyone is under the strings of someone else. Even when you get to the big dogs like the US, we're just under the strings of (insert cabal of various seedy influences )so who is independent amirite? 
Well that is exactly the problem. We all probably feel that way deep down, and it IS what's "right" but as you point out...a whole lot of people would want out of their country and become their own. You forgot Quebec! Though some areas of the US I really would not mind (and would not stop) if they wanted to leave
Would never work. We all know that famous steely Russian will. Their men can probably go 40 years without sex, or masturbation or even relief of any kind. I bet the army is castrated just to resist any possible distraction from the glorious mission
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 27 2014 at 08:37
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Are there any Polish forum members here? I read an article in The Week (I''l try and find a link) that said thousands of Polish army reservists were being called up. Allegedly many young Poles working in the UK have recieved their papers. Is this true? It's for an unscehduled border exercise, apparently. Just interested. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: March 27 2014 at 10:20
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In their shoes I'd do the same, at least just to tell Putin that it wouldn't be too easy. There must be a reason if Obama has publicly announced that the OTAN is ready to move in support of the Baltic Republics. ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: March 27 2014 at 10:20
But it surely inspires more sympathy than that fascist ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: March 27 2014 at 16:18
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Ukrainians have spent almost their entire history being controlled by everybody and their dog in neighboring countries, so as unfortunate as the latest events here might be it's regrettably nothing new. That's why my family moved to Canada some 100 years ago. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 05:13
This is a GREAT idea.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 05:56
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that Putindog is hilarious, it barely looks like a dog, more like some ancestral tree dweller |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 06:05
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It's bonkers. The whole thing. It's like living in the Twilight Zone. While Soros - who is incidentally an economic terrorist, and a mass media owning propogandist on the scale of Goebells - is suggesting that we pull the rug from under Putins feet, the British are planning to buy gas directly from Russia for the first time ever, instead of getting it from EU reserve sites, where Russian gas had been stored. If you back Putin into a corner that's when the trouble will really start, and his response will benefit no one. Then this week we hear Obama saying that Russia's actions in Crimea were worse than ours in Iraq. If Bush had said that liberals would be rolling around roaring with laughter, or spitting fire in disbelief and rage but because it's daddy cool saying it, the media barely touch it. Why? well, I dunno but you may want to ask George Soros; take it up with Media Matters. I'm not siding with Putin, but our leaders and their hangers on in the media and industry are the biggest bunch of  ers, the post war world has ever seen. We should be very scared. The driver is drunk and his sat nav is f***ed. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 06:15
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A magnificent illustration on which is painted russian czar St. Putin who manipulated with putinoids. Sadly enough, Serbia is full of putinoids too. 
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 06:31
Putin's Russia actually does not in itself constitute a threat to the world. However, Putin's Russia is allied with Merkel's Germany now. This alliance is not official, but is easily visible when the media mimicry for the masses is ignored, and when it is known that Merkel's Germany and Putin's Russia are linked with hundreds of inter-state agreements, of which the most famous is the "Nord Stream". It actually fulfills the dreams of Russian fascist bloggers that Germany should be a "head" and Russia to be a "body". In that alliance, Erdogan's Turkey found its home too, and this alliance represents a real danger to the world. Due to these facts, there is a big responsibility on the U.S. and the UK goverments. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 07:12
Crimea per se and today in geo-strategic and (or) military sense is nothing. The same thing is with the minerals. In the waters of Azerbaijan they have already found a huge reserves of natural gas and crude oil and BP is already in the bussines with building the Trans Adriatic pipeline; also, there is Iraq as U.S. and UK gas station as same as post-Gaddafi's Lybia as well. So that territory in Black Sea does not mean anything for the U.S. and UK in the terms of raw materials. However, Putin's Russia and Merkel's Germany are making a division of Ukraine, and nobody can stop them - that is very dangerous. Further progression of Merkel's Germany, Putin's Russia and Erdogan's Turkey alliance can be prevented, but only by causing the massive protests in Moscow and Istambul, and destabilize the regimes of Erdogan and Putin. It would be calmed down that growed Merkel's ambitions too. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 07:19
Pretty much. Make it about 70 years ago for mine, and it was specifically some guy named Hitler that had something to do with it...but yup, very sad history, and sadder that independence has been anything but. I know it always takes a while for a country to really become independent, and it's a rocky road....but seems Ukraine is screwed. No one will leave it be  Shame is, I really believe it may be largely emotional for Russia. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't get it...is Russia still looking for that warm water port? As it was said, is Crimea that valuable for geo politics? We know Russia has basically wanted it's old lands back, can it be simply the conservative old "I want this land" deal? We all know imperialism is done with $ and business these days anyway!
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 07:30
Sadly, Russian foreign policy is completely incompetent, and it's only for keeping up that oligarch regime in Moscow. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 07:49
Sounds about right to me
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 22:14
| Crimea is extremely valuable for geopolitical purposes. The port at Sevastapool is one of the best naval bases in the Black Sea Region. This location has been fought over in many bloody wars (mostly notably the Crimean War and World War 2) and it's a location that NATO desperately wanted a footprint in. Crimea also holds enormous gas reserves in its waters, which is always great for Gazprom to produce more gas. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: March 30 2014 at 02:36
No, that's just a distraction from what is really going on. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 31 2014 at 12:04
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http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/march/30/aid-to-ukraine-is-a-bad-deal-for-all.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/march/30/aid-to-ukraine-is-a-bad-deal-for-all.aspx Good article on Ukraine from an American libertarian perspective Sorry broken hyperlink. I was reading articles online and I stumbled upon Ron Paul's response. Not exactly Obama's response, but I felt like it was the right response to such a waste of taxpayer money...
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: March 31 2014 at 12:15
| ^ Is it just me or is the video not actually there? |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: April 09 2014 at 12:11
| Phase 2 of the NATO/Russian proxy war in Ukraine. The question is: Will the Russians start their military incursion into Southern and Eastern Ukraine? |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 09 2014 at 12:26
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Russia claims US mercenaries are at work in Ukraine stirring sh*t.. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russia-claims-american-mercenaries-are-eastern-ukraine-n74571" rel="nofollow - US news article ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: April 09 2014 at 12:37
US mercenaries and Russian special forces have been in Ukraine for a long time now... Now they're finally showing their faces...
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: April 10 2014 at 09:16
The port of Sevastopool was lost its importance in the moment when Bulgaria and Romania went in NATO/OTAN. Also, Russian Black Sea fleet, as remains of Soviet Union, is http://rt.com/news/us-aircraft-carrier-ukraine-958/" rel="nofollow - obsolete in http://rt.com/news/us-truxtun-crimea-russia-849/" rel="nofollow - comparision with http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/08/politics/us-navy-ship-ukraine/" rel="nofollow - U.S. Naval facilities in Black Sea and Mediterranean basin. The problem is actually continental, which is an alliance of Putin's Russia and Merkel's Germany who are trying to divide Ukraine, following the insane plan to "save Europe" of which the Russian nationalists have been writing for years. This article from 2011 is just one of many:
http://rt.com/politics/russia-germany-alliance-panarin-315/" rel="nofollow - http://rt.com/politics/russia-germany-alliance-panarin-315/ |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: April 10 2014 at 19:11
| What about control of the Eurasian landmass as being strategic in control of the world? ZB's book on the Grand Chessboard anyone? |