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Steve Vai added to bands list !!!

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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9728
Printed Date: August 20 2018 at 05:27
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Topic: Steve Vai added to bands list !!!
Posted By: Tony R
Subject: Steve Vai added to bands list !!!
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:23

Someone has added Steve Vai.

I'm appalled and totally against this.

Anyone able to convince me otherwise or do we all agree that the rot has set in......




Replies:
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:24
I'm not so sure about Steve Vai... he's a fantastic guitarist and I love his solo work, but I don't really feel that he's done anything truly "progressive".

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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:24
I'm more upset that Coheed and Cambria were added, then removed, than I am about Steve's addition...  then again, the only Vai I ever heard was Vai's work with Zappa.  

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Posted By: Retrovertigo
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:25
We'll have to poll then.  He's a prog-fusion composer.


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:26
I'm ok with it. The net has been cast very wide on the Archives and I think he may be "proggy " enough!

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:32
He`s far more progressive than bands like Queen or Nightwish;)

Now really: I glad he`s added because he is a prog/fusion artist


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http://www.lastfm.pl/user/tomash33 - Last.fm


Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:33
Prog or not - he's completely crap, which is enough in my book to get him tossed out of the archive.























Actually, I don't think he's prog at all. Just another overschooled, fret shredding bore. Out damn spot, out I say!


Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:38
Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Prog or not - he's completely crap, which is enough in my book to get him tossed out of the archive


Actually, I don't think he's prog at all. Just another overschooled, fret shredding bore. Out damn spot, out I say!


Dream on boy. Not in this lifetime. Have you even hear the guy?
 

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http://www.lastfm.pl/user/tomash33 - Last.fm


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:38
just because he was on tour with petrucci doesn't make him prog. i think he is more of a w**king soloist than petrucci on Train of Thought.

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:48
Originally posted by Wolf Spider Wolf Spider wrote:

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Prog or not - he's completely crap, which is enough in my book to get him tossed out of the archive


Actually, I don't think he's prog at all. Just another overschooled, fret shredding bore. Out damn spot, out I say!


Dream on boy. Not in this lifetime. Have you even hear the guy?
 


I have had the unfortunate experience of hearing Vai on a number of occasions  - it was similar to having root canal surgery: long, painful and barely endurable and you'll pay anything to get out of that room.

The criteria by which one judges whether something is progressive or not should not be based on the technical skill of the musician - which I think forms a lot of the requests for the inclusion of shredders. Speed of light legato does not a prog musician make.
Why put Vai and leave out Joe Satrian (maybe he's in already too - oh the shame), or Frank Gambale or any number of big-haired plank spankers.

Just as Queen are not prog, just as Muse are not prog, just as ELO or Kate Bush or whoever are not prog - neither is Steve Vai.

Please remove him




Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 13:55

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Originally posted by Wolf Spider Wolf Spider wrote:

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Prog or not - he's completely crap, which is enough in my book to get him tossed out of the archive


Actually, I don't think he's prog at all. Just another overschooled, fret shredding bore. Out damn spot, out I say!


Dream on boy. Not in this lifetime. Have you even hear the guy?
 


I have had the unfortunate experience of hearing Vai on a number of occasions  - it was similar to having root canal surgery: long, painful and barely endurable and you'll pay anything to get out of that room.

So you don't like virtuoso guitar playing - what does that have to do with his progressiveness? Do you like Zappa? Do you know what Avant-Prog is? Have you even listened to Flex-Able?



Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:05
Yes I have heard Flex-Able. It was, to me, boring, pointless and soulless. I never, ever, in a million blurred notes associated it with prog. I just though it was dull heavy metal played by an egomaniac who had spent too long locked away in a rehearsal room practicing his scales. Sorry.


Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:08
Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Yes I have heard Flex-Able. It was, to me, boring, pointless and soulless. I never, ever, in a million blurred notes associated it with prog. I just though it was dull heavy metal played by an egomaniac who had spent too long locked away in a rehearsal room practicing his scales. Sorry.


Freak
 

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http://www.lastfm.pl/user/tomash33 - Last.fm


Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:10
Fantastic riposte


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:13

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Yes I have heard Flex-Able. It was, to me, boring, pointless and soulless. I never, ever, in a million blurred notes associated it with prog. I just though it was dull heavy metal played by an egomaniac who had spent too long locked away in a rehearsal room practicing his scales. Sorry.

To me Flex able is a very Zappa like album, for that reason maybe he should be included.



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:17
Sorry, Snowy, just not for me - he's about as prog as Joey Tempest


Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:19

Originally posted by Wolf Spider Wolf Spider wrote:

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Yes I have heard Flex-Able. It was, to me, boring, pointless and soulless. I never, ever, in a million blurred notes associated it with prog. I just though it was dull heavy metal played by an egomaniac who had spent too long locked away in a rehearsal room practicing his scales. Sorry.


Freak
 

That's very constructive.

How about?

"Arcer:

I disagree with your post because........."

I know it is difficult being a teenager,but seeing as you are 20 tomorrow,I think it is time you grew up,dont you.



Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:22

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Yes I have heard Flex-Able. It was, to me, boring, pointless and soulless. I never, ever, in a million blurred notes associated it with prog. I just though it was dull heavy metal played by an egomaniac who had spent too long locked away in a rehearsal room practicing his scales. Sorry.

Then I assume you're not a Zappa fan either?



Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:22

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Sorry, Snowy, just not for me - he's about as prog as Joey Tempest

Joey Tempest? Is that Troy's brother?



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:23
Wasn't he in that Shakespeare play?


Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:28
oh dear god! WHY VAI? WHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYY?

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The Worthless Recluse


Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:29
* yes i know the irony in this, since i was the first guy to add a band that weren't prog but... shut up

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The Worthless Recluse


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:29

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Wasn't he in that Shakespeare play?

This is the only Troy Tempest I know!



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:30
since when is genesis prog?

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:30
Originally posted by Wolf Spider Wolf Spider wrote:

He`s far more progressive than bands like Queen or Nightwish;)

Now really: I glad he`s added because he is a prog/fusion artist


canned soup is more prog than those bands! (i bet it turns out there is an actual proggy band called canned soup now!) bah humbug!

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The Worthless Recluse


Posted By: JCProg
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:31
Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

boring, pointless and soulless


The holy trinity of progressive rock. So, he fits right in.


Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:42
Dear arcer,
I disagree with your post because I think that Steve Vai is indeed a prog artist, not because he played with Zappa and Petrucci, but working with Zappa left a mark on his character and playing style. Zappa teached him the courage to express his every thought and idea through music. His albums contain very well composed and arranged rock songs with strong metal/jazz/fusion /experimental/even pop infuences. And that is why I`m so damn happy he has been finally added to bands list.
Yours trully


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http://www.lastfm.pl/user/tomash33 - Last.fm


Posted By: Shack Man
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 14:50

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:


Just another overschooled, fret shredding bore. Out damn spot, out I say!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!! I agree



Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 15:34

Originally posted by Wolf Spider Wolf Spider wrote:

Dear arcer,
I disagree with your post because I think that Steve Vai is indeed a prog artist, not because he played with Zappa and Petrucci, but working with Zappa left a mark on his character and playing style. Zappa teached him the courage to express his every thought and idea through music. His albums contain very well composed and arranged rock songs with strong metal/jazz/fusion /experimental/even pop infuences. And that is why I`m so damn happy he has been finally added to bands list.
Yours trully

That's better!

Now point me to an album of his that is 100% prog and I'll support you.

BTW: Happy Birthday for tomorrow.

 



Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 15:38

Vai is awesome, but not Prog.



Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 15:40
steve vai makes children cry


(rule #374 page 24 of Lidney... if it rhymes it must be true.)

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The Worthless Recluse


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 15:41

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

I'm more upset that Coheed and Cambria were added, then removed, than I am about Steve's addition...  then again, the only Vai I ever heard was Vai's work with Zappa.  

If you liked that, check out Flex-Able and Flex-Able Leftovers. Great music, great comedy.



Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 15:42
Start with his anthology "The infintive" and you should get the picture. Or you can try "passion & warfare", "sex & religion", "flex-able" or "reflections". Have fun.

oh and thanks


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http://www.lastfm.pl/user/tomash33 - Last.fm


Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 15:49
steve vai's name in the progarhcives section of the main site has been changed to "under evluation" (im not kidding about that typo). this is a first!

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The Worthless Recluse


Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 15:54
WHAT?? Why?

Please God give me strenght.


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http://www.lastfm.pl/user/tomash33 - Last.fm


Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 16:19

Vai is certainly progressive, but that does not equal prog rock. I'll go back and relisten, but I don't think he's done anything that could be considered prog.

Unlike Queen.



Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 16:41
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Unlike Queen.

Yeah whatever Cert! keep on bangin' that drum!



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: nimrodel
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 16:41

lets add michael angelo batio too!



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We want... a shrubbery!


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 16:51
Originally posted by nimrodel nimrodel wrote:

lets add michael angelo batio too!

 Would you please only about music that you really know? You'll compare Vai to Malmsteen next ...



Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 16:53
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by nimrodel nimrodel wrote:

lets add michael angelo batio too!

 Would you please only about music that you really know? You'll compare Vai to Malmsteen next ...

Who is this Michael Angelo person, Mike?



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 17:03
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by nimrodel nimrodel wrote:

lets add michael angelo batio too!

 Would you please only about music that you really know? You'll compare Vai to Malmsteen next ...

Who is this Michael Angelo person, Mike?

Entirely not my cup of tea - this is what I would describe as "mindless shredding". His technique is flawless, but I can find nothing interesting in his songs. Listen to Vai's Flex-Able, or "Lucky Charms" - a difference like day and night.

http://www.angelo.com - http://www.angelo.com

http://www.angelo.com/No_Boundaries.mp3 - http://www.angelo.com/No_Boundaries.mp3

 



Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 17:04
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Unlike Queen.

Yeah whatever Cert! keep on bangin' that drum!

I will, until someone comes up with a good reason to the contrary.

Which they haven't.

The only reason so far is "I don't think Queen are prog so they can't be". How long did it take to come up with that one then?

You're one of the worst culprits. What was your argument again.

Oh yes.

"No they're not".

You shot me down, man...



Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 17:14
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Unlike Queen.

Yeah whatever Cert! keep on bangin' that drum!

I will, until someone comes up with a good reason to the contrary.

Which they haven't.

The only reason so far is "I don't think Queen are prog so they can't be". How long did it take to come up with that one then?

You're one of the worst culprits. What was your argument again.

Oh yes.

"No they're not".

You shot me down, man...

That wasn't my argument, that was just my reaction. I've been into Queen all my life and never ever thought of them as prog as such. I'm not going to define why their not, thats just the way I feel. The 70's were a great time, with music exploring in all sorts of ways and Queen certainly weren't part of the Prog scene then! Not to my recollection anyway.
    They were  more "theatrical rock", and OK Queen II is possibly a bit Proggy, but ANATO, I can't see it myself!

  Furthermore you're overzealous overating of these albums just seems to me like you have something to prove!



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 17:25

It's not overzealous - I explain my ratings precisely and with factual detail that could be disagreed with.

But no.

The disagreements are "just my reaction", "never ever thought of them as prog as such", "thats just the way I feel".

So what if you didn't think they were prog at the time? Now is not then, and prog is viewed very differently these days. Times change.

"theatrical rock"??? You just made that up.

Weren't Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd and ELP all theatrical?

Let me think...

Give me a hard one



Posted By: Ruglish
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 17:30

Queen are an interesting paradox -- all of their '70s (and some of the '80s + "Innuendo") albums contain geniune prog, but only about two or three songs out of 10. 

Queen II is probably the most proggy, with "The March of the Black Queen," "Fairy Feller's Master Stroke" and "Ogre Battle" as highlights.  But it also has whatever that Roger Taylor tune is in the middle.

"Sheer Heart Attack" has "Brighton Rock" on it.

"A Night at the Opera" -- "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "The Prophet's Song" and definitely prog; "Good Company," "I'm in Love With my Car," etc. most certainly are not.

And it pretty much goes on like this:

"Day at the Races" has proggy "Millionnaire's Waltz" but a bunch of other stuff that's not prog.  "Jazz" has "Bicycle Race" and "Mustafa."  Even the really awful and mostly not progressive "A Kind of Magic" has a respectable prog song in "Princes of the Universe."  "Innuendo" -- their proggiest since "Queen II" has the title track, "Bijou," "The Hitman" and "All God's People."

The lion's share of Queen's prog was written by Mercury; the remainder by May.

If you put all of the songs I mentioned together, you get a really nice, long, intricate prog album.  But Queen was always about variety of sounds. 

For me personally, the consistent presence of prog in Queen's body of work makes up for the occasional "I'm in Love with My Car" or "Pain is So Close to Pleasure."  And if we're admitting Radiohead, for Christ's sakes, why not Queen?  At least 20 percent of Queen's songs are genuine prog.  Radiohead has, what, "Paranoid Android" and -- well, that's about it, isn't it?

 



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I danced along the colored wind
Dangled from a rope of sand
You must say goodbye to me


Posted By: bmorgan
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 18:07
Steve Vai also played with Al di Meola.......wait a minute, Al's not on here. If Steve is, why not Al, huh?

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The universe is wider than our views of it. - Thoreau


Posted By: Aerosol Grey
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 18:22

Steve Vai has no appeal to anybody who does not play guitar, therefore he should not be included here.  He gets enough worship on guitar technique websites.

Cmon guys, lets get this sit back to its intended purpose which is getting prog-metal dorks to buy Magma and Gentle Giant albums.



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Prog is the new punk, becuase kids who shop at Hot Topic don't know Bill Bruford is God.


Posted By: Chris88
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 18:27
Originally posted by Aerosol Grey Aerosol Grey wrote:

Steve Vai has no appeal to anybody who does not play guitar, therefore he should not be included here.  He gets enough worship on guitar technique websites.

Cmon guys, lets get this sit back to its intended purpose which is getting prog-metal dorks to buy Magma and Gentle Giant albums.

 

Ok I love steve vai more than life itself but I do agree with you. Put simply his music is only acsessable to musicians. As I said before he is my hero but he does not belong here.



Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 18:35
Take the Queen discussion elsewhere guys.  Or better yet, stop it.  They're here to stay, deal with it.

As for Vai, it's looking at the moment like we won't be keeping him much longer, so those of you upset with the current state of affairs need not worry.


Posted By: Hemispheres
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 19:00
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

 

To me Flex able is a very Zappa like album, for that reason maybe he should be included.

Yah Because ripping off other musicians is so progresive



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Posted By: Revan
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 19:07
I think he's prog enough...

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Posted By: herbie53
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 19:21

Steve Vai is decidedly not prog! And he is not a Jazz Fusion Rock musician!!! Why is he in this site??? Only because put some stupid effects in his music??? Or because began his career with the Master FRANK ZAPPA ???

I hate masturbatory instrumentists, and for me Vai is the biggest one in this territory... The guy is a joke... anyone saw him in his last dvd, with a ventilator in the front of him, only for shake his horrible hair, full of a japanese cream for bad hair??? When he did came in Brazil for some shows with G3, he did made a scene, only because the production of the show did not find his japanese cream for bad hair...

Don't make me laugh... this guy is a joke !!!

 



Posted By: Lyzarrd
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 19:24
First off...let me add this. Al Di Meola needs to be in above all others.

Secondly, Vai is so close to being good enough and well-rounded enough to be in the archives however, he is holding hiself back. If the man would focus on writing and composing the way he does with his abilities instead of doing technical wank-off, speed-runs, than he could possibly be considered an all-time great.

I don't understand how he can write absolutely beautiful, tear-jerking, genious pieces such as Tender Surrender and For the Love of God and yet completely destroy all that by doing rediculously stupid things such as The Audience is Listening.

Honestly I think he is phenomenal and has great ability that he just doesn't put to full use. Its a real shame and I think that perhaps his music needs more time to mature in order to be considered for the archives.




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Can you tell me where my country lies...


Posted By: Chris88
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 19:26
All he is doing with songs like the audience is listening is showing he has a sense of humor and I think he does a pretty good job at it! Music is about fun also.


Posted By: con safo
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 20:04
I dont know how you CAN't call him prog!

../Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=8542" title="Go to Vai Steve under evaluation The Ultra Zone album review, Mp3, track listing - The Ultra Zone
Studio Album
199

He's obviously very ahead of the times!



on a serious note tho, i havent heard much by him and cant make any valid comments, instead i bring you this picture:



KILLER MULLET DUDE!


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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 20:23
[QUOTE=Certif1ed]

It's not overzealous - I explain my ratings precisely and with factual detail that could be disagreed with.

Sorry, but its how I see it. You're review of ANATO, giving it 5 stars, and you're review of Queen II, talking about it as if it was some long lost prog masterpiece that you just rediscovered.

But no.

The disagreements are "just my reaction", "never ever thought of them as prog as such", "thats just the way I feel".

" Just My reaction" is not a disagreement in this argument. Just an explanation for a previous post. The rest are my personal opinions. Ok, so its the way I feel, sometimes thats what you go on, like a detectives hunch! I've read many of your posts and you always make a strong argument, but I have no facts to back me up. Just opinion.

So what if you didn't think they were prog at the time? Now is not then, and prog is viewed very differently these days. Times change.

Not just me, I don't think anyone considered them prog. Times do change I agree, which is why I said in a previous argument with you that I didn't consider Iron Maiden or Def Leppard Heavy Metal. By today's standards they're not!

"theatrical rock"??? You just made that up.

Of course I made it up! I'd hardly deny it. Journalists make things up all the time. I have heard them called something similar though. This is what happens when a band is difficult to catagorise.

Weren't Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd and ELP all theatrical?

Yes, but not in the same way I meant. Queen are a kind of Vaudeville act. Or were at least..............so some jopurnos said anyway!

Let me think...

Give me a hard one

Sorry I'm not that way inclined!

[/ QUOTE]

We ain't gonna agree on this, thats obvious. You are always so convinced you are right for a start! I'll say this, Queen II is Proggy, but is it the genuine article?  You are convinced it is, I have my doubts, but ANATO I really don't think is prog at all!



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Lateralus_66
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 20:48
Steve Vai @ ProgArchives ..?

 Yabadabadou but... I do like his discography, specially “Flex-Able”, “Sex & Religion” (with Devin Townsend) and “Real Illusions: Reflections” with some Progressive Metal drops, but IMO he isn’t a Prog-Rock guy… 




Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 22:26
ugh.  please. not vai.
He's technically brilliant, but I hate his style and he is not progressive.  My friend is a huge fan of Vai and he made me watch this live DVD.  it was awful.  he's there on stage with a skin-tight shirt, glitter on his face and an industrial-strength fan on stage to blow his hair back while he plays so he can look cool. 
I like self-indulgent music, but please, lay off the glitter, man.


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http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic
ALTAIC

"Oceans Down You'll Lie"
coming soon


Posted By: Damen
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 22:41
Adding Vai will just open the doors for other guitarists like Malmsteen and Satriani who aren't prog at all. By the same token Queen needs to get the boot as well, or we'll start adding every 70's classic rock band (just look at the people harping for Deep Purple now).

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"It's amazing that we've been able to put up with each other for 35 years. Most marriages don't last that long these days."

-Chris Squire


Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: August 07 2005 at 23:43
We could do with Vai, he has had a number of fusiony sounding stuff, especially his latest album Illusions is quite proggish......What I'm worried about is that this will open the floodgates to many other virtuoso guitarists, who are no more than just that.... Satriani, Micheal Angelo, Jason Becker, etc....They definitely have no business on a prog site!


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Album of the week:
Being
7/30/05 Remedy Lane
7/24/05 Pawn Hearts


Posted By: LiquidSeBarrio
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 01:37

GUYS! I´M HERE JUST TO SAY THAT VAI IS ONE OF THE BIG COMPOSERS IN THIS TIME. DID YOU HEAR ULTRA ZONE ? PASSION AND WARFARE?. YOU MUST HAVE THIS AWASOME ARTIST IN YOUR LIST.

BECAUSE I DON´T SPEAK ENGLISH VERY WELL, I´LL PUT THIS IN SPANISH: Vai ha creado increíbles sonidos en su guitarra, ha explorado nuevos caminos y eso lo convierte, sin duda alguna, en un artista progresivo, porque despues de todo, a eso se le llama progresivo: El buscar nuevos horizontes y no limitarse a lo normal. A la vez, es muy virtuoso, PERO NO POR ESO DEJA DE SER PROGRESIVO, de lo contrario Yngwe Malmsteen se encontraría en esta pagina.

PLEASE, KEEP VAI ON YOUR PAGE.

CHEERS FROM BARILOCHE, PATAGONIA, ARGENTINA.



Posted By: ScreminFlea
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 02:09

Got this from the "Prog" definition on this very web site.

"Progressive rock artists sought to move away from the limitations of radio formatted rock and pop, and "progress" rock to the point that it could achieve the sophistication of jazz or classical music. It is admired by its fans for its complexity, requiring a high level of musical virtuosity to perform. "

I would say that encompasses Vai's work. He definately pushed the limits of the guitar as an instrument. While wild and unruly; there is definately an elevated level of sophistication to his playing, and I don't believe that anyone would argue that a "high level of musical virtuosity" is required to play it. Not just anyone can pick up a guitar and coax those sounds out of it.

He's not my favorite axe master, not even close really, but I would have to say that his work does fit within the definition of "progressive" music, and therefore, appears to belong here as much as any other artist in that category.



Posted By: ScreminFlea
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 02:19

Incidentally, our friend LiquidSeBarrio was saying that Vai has created new sounds with his guitar, and explored new methods, and that, that fact "without a doubt" qualified him as a "progressive"

He says Vai searches for new horizons and does not limit himself to the norm, and the fact that he is a virtuoso does not disqualify him as a progressive.

 

Loosly translated. I speak it a hell of a lot better than I read or write it lol. 



Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 02:29

Originally posted by GoldenSpiral GoldenSpiral wrote:

ugh.  please. not vai.
He's technically brilliant, but I hate his style and he is not progressive.  My friend is a huge fan of Vai and he made me watch this live DVD.  it was awful.  he's there on stage with a skin-tight shirt, glitter on his face and an industrial-strength fan on stage to blow his hair back while he plays so he can look cool. 
I like self-indulgent music, but please, lay off the glitter, man.

As if Peter Gabriel never used make-up.



Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 03:27
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

[QUOTE=Certif1ed]

It's not overzealous - I explain my ratings precisely and with factual detail that could be disagreed with.

Sorry, but its how I see it. You're review of ANATO, giving it 5 stars, and you're review of Queen II, talking about it as if it was some long lost prog masterpiece that you just rediscovered.

I haven't reviewed ANATO yet.

Queen II does seem like a long lost masterpiece of prog that I've just rediscovered, and I justified why. I'm not just saying "it's how I feel, man", I hear the prog elements and present them - for discussion if necessary.

But no.

The disagreements are "just my reaction", "never ever thought of them as prog as such", "thats just the way I feel".

" Just My reaction" is not a disagreement in this argument. Just an explanation for a previous post. The rest are my personal opinions. Ok, so its the way I feel, sometimes thats what you go on, like a detectives hunch! I've read many of your posts and you always make a strong argument, but I have no facts to back me up. Just opinion.

If you have no facts to back your hunch up, then wouldn't it be better to can the argument until you do?

I work on hunches too, of course - music being subjective. It's only by injecting some objectivity that a discussion really has any merit. Otherwise it's just "yes it is, no it isn't". Which is a waste of time.

So what if you didn't think they were prog at the time? Now is not then, and prog is viewed very differently these days. Times change.

Not just me, I don't think anyone considered them prog. Times do change I agree, which is why I said in a previous argument with you that I didn't consider Iron Maiden or Def Leppard Heavy Metal. By today's standards they're not!

And by today's standards, Queen are prog. Touche!

Steve Vai (remember!!!), however, does not seem to be.

"theatrical rock"??? You just made that up.

Of course I made it up! I'd hardly deny it. Journalists make things up all the time. I have heard them called something similar though. This is what happens when a band is difficult to catagorise.

Why go with other people's opinions and thoughts?

I certainly don't.

Weren't Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd and ELP all theatrical?

Yes, but not in the same way I meant. Queen are a kind of Vaudeville act. Or were at least..............so some jopurnos said anyway!

Weak, very weak...

Let me think...

Give me a hard one

Sorry I'm not that way inclined!

Tried Viagra?

[/ QUOTE]

We ain't gonna agree on this, thats obvious. You are always so convinced you are right for a start! I'll say this, Queen II is Proggy, but is it the genuine article?  You are convinced it is, I have my doubts, but ANATO I really don't think is prog at all!

I haven't analysed it yet, but from memory, it "feels" like a prog album to me.

I'm only "convinced that I'm right" because so few people come back with arguments based on any kind of fact. I know it's difficult with something as subjective as music - but it's not impossible, and you don't need training, just ears, thoughts and an interest in the subject matter.

This latter is relevant to the discussion on Vai too, otherwise I would have ignored another "I don't know why but I don't agree" type response.

Just because you think I think I'm right all the time doesn't mean I share the same opinion of myself

If you DO hear the prog, what makes it prog for you? You don't have to be right, just hold an opinion and discuss it and see what others think. Yes, there are gits like me who will tear it apart - but that's part of the point of a discussion. Every argument and theory has its holes. It's just a question of finding them.

What do you think of "Passion and Warfare"?



Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 04:49
So Vai is narcistic... BIG DEAL almost every virtuoso is. I don`t know how you can pretend you can`t hear jazz/fusion/metal influenaces in his music? His not just anothe guitar player like satriani, Malmsteen or Impellitteri - now don`t get me wrong they are great musicians but definetly NOT PROG. You can`t say that adding Vai means that every guitar player can now be added. Petrucci`s album "Suspended Animation" is great but not prog and I didn`t hear anyone complaining about adding him to Prog Arch. Playing in a prog metal band doesn`t mean that everything they do is prog! If yes we should add even Yellow Matter Custard - project of Neal Morse and Mike Portnoy playing Beatels covers. To me it`s obvious that Vai is a progressive artist and you don`t have to be a musician to enjoy his music- I love his music and I don`t even know how to hold guitar properly
LEAVE VAI ALONE!

BTW: Al DiMeola plays jazz.


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http://www.lastfm.pl/user/tomash33 - Last.fm


Posted By: ScreminFlea
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 05:15
Al Demiola can play just about anything actually. The man is amazing.


Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 05:21
I agree but that doesn`t change the fact that he plays mainly jazz.

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http://www.lastfm.pl/user/tomash33 - Last.fm


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 05:51
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

[QUOTE=Certif1ed]

It's not overzealous - I explain my ratings precisely and with factual detail that could be disagreed with.

Sorry, but its how I see it. You're review of ANATO, giving it 5 stars, and you're review of Queen II, talking about it as if it was some long lost prog masterpiece that you just rediscovered.

I haven't reviewed ANATO yet.

Sorry, my mistake, but you called it a prog album in a thread.

Queen II does seem like a long lost masterpiece of prog that I've just rediscovered, and I justified why. I'm not just saying "it's how I feel, man", I hear the prog elements and present them - for discussion if necessary.

You do it well!

But no.

The disagreements are "just my reaction", "never ever thought of them as prog as such", "thats just the way I feel".

" Just My reaction" is not a disagreement in this argument. Just an explanation for a previous post. The rest are my personal opinions. Ok, so its the way I feel, sometimes thats what you go on, like a detectives hunch! I've read many of your posts and you always make a strong argument, but I have no facts to back me up. Just opinion.

If you have no facts to back your hunch up, then wouldn't it be better to can the argument until you do?

I work on hunches too, of course - music being subjective. It's only by injecting some objectivity that a discussion really has any merit. Otherwise it's just "yes it is, no it isn't". Which is a waste of time.

Hard to be objective about whats Prog or not. Anything could be prog if you wanted it to be! (wthin reason of course!)

So what if you didn't think they were prog at the time? Now is not then, and prog is viewed very differently these days. Times change.

Not just me, I don't think anyone considered them prog. Times do change I agree, which is why I said in a previous argument with you that I didn't consider Iron Maiden or Def Leppard Heavy Metal. By today's standards they're not!

And by today's standards, Queen are prog. Touche!

Steve Vai (remember!!!), however, does not seem to be.

Since discovering the Archives, I've seen many things that I had never previously thought of as Prog! But, going by the definitions I've read here, I'd say that Vai scrapes in.

"theatrical rock"??? You just made that up.

Of course I made it up! I'd hardly deny it. Journalists make things up all the time. I have heard them called something similar though. This is what happens when a band is difficult to catagorise.

Why go with other people's opinions and thoughts?

I certainly don't.

I do if I agree with them!

Weren't Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd and ELP all theatrical?

Yes, but not in the same way I meant. Queen are a kind of Vaudeville act. Or were at least..............so some journos said anyway!

Weak, very weak...

Just trying to be lighthearted here!

Let me think...

Give me a hard one

Sorry I'm not that way inclined!

Tried Viagra?

You want the "hard one", not me!

[/ QUOTE]

We ain't gonna agree on this, thats obvious. You are always so convinced you are right for a start! I'll say this, Queen II is Proggy, but is it the genuine article?  You are convinced it is, I have my doubts, but ANATO I really don't think is prog at all!

I haven't analysed it yet, but from memory, it "feels" like a prog album to me.

I'm only "convinced that I'm right" because so few people come back with arguments based on any kind of fact. I know it's difficult with something as subjective as music - but it's not impossible, and you don't need training, just ears, thoughts and an interest in the subject matter.

This latter is relevant to the discussion on Vai too, otherwise I would have ignored another "I don't know why but I don't agree" type response.

Just because you think I think I'm right all the time doesn't mean I share the same opinion of myself

If you DO hear the prog, what makes it prog for you? You don't have to be right, just hold an opinion and discuss it and see what others think. Yes, there are gits like me who will tear it apart - but that's part of the point of a discussion. Every argument and theory has its holes. It's just a question of finding them.

What do you think of "Passion and Warfare"?

I like it, and I think it could fit in this site, acording to the definitions written here. The fact that he's a virtuoso player is irrelevant to the merits of it's caterogisation.
Zappa is here, and there are many similarities between the 2, especially in the case of Flex-able. Sex and Religion, on the other hand could fit in under Progmetal! IMO oof course!



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Posted By: dkearns
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 06:02
Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:


Ok I love steve vai more than life itself but I do agree with you. Put simply his music is only acsessable to musicians. As I said before he is my hero but he does not belong here.



Does that mean that this non-musician has been deluding himself?


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 06:29
Originally posted by dkearns dkearns wrote:

Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:


Ok I love steve vai more than life itself but I do agree with you. Put simply his music is only acsessable to musicians. As I said before he is my hero but he does not belong here.



Does that mean that this non-musician has been deluding himself?

Yeah... I didn't understand Chris' post either!



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: bmorgan
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 06:35

If Steve Vai, then why not Buckethead!!!



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The universe is wider than our views of it. - Thoreau


Posted By: Gatot
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 06:54
Next will be: Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, Yngwie Malmsteen.


Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 07:30

Originally posted by Gatot Gatot wrote:

Next will be: Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, Yngwie Malmsteen.

Yippeeeee



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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT


Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 07:42

Originally posted by Gatot Gatot wrote:

Next will be: Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, Yngwie Malmsteen.

Swiftly followed by Uli John Roth, no doubt...

Then Michael Schenker and Bo Diddley.



Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 07:56

I wouldn't have expected that much ignorance in a prog rock forum:

Lucky Charms.

'nough said.



Posted By: M. B. Zapelini
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:20

Originally posted by Gatot Gatot wrote:

Next will be: Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, Yngwie Malmsteen.

Maybe Yngwie Malmsteen deserved to be here before Vai... At least he wrote some symphonic rock... Vai's one and only credential to be at ProArchives is "former Frank Zappa guitarist".



Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:27
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by GoldenSpiral GoldenSpiral wrote:

ugh.  please. not vai.
He's technically brilliant, but I hate his style and he is not progressive.  My friend is a huge fan of Vai and he made me watch this live DVD.  it was awful.  he's there on stage with a skin-tight shirt, glitter on his face and an industrial-strength fan on stage to blow his hair back while he plays so he can look cool. 
I like self-indulgent music, but please, lay off the glitter, man.

As if Peter Gabriel never used make-up.

PG used makeup/costumes for artistic purposes.  Vai is just being lame and glittery for glitter's sake.  PG came across as sort of an artsy weirdo (but lovable all the same), whereas Vai's style is more of "Hey! look at me! I can play guitar!  look at my hair blowing in the breeze!  aren't I pretty!"

also, the Ibanez Jem (his signature guitar) is probably the ugliest friggin guitar I've ever seen.

so unprog!



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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:32

It's unreal - I have no idea why you guys are so sure that you're right. Preferring Malmsteen to Vai when it comes to Symphonic music ... that's one of the sickest statements I've ever read.

But we don't have to agree - I know that I'm right and you're wrong (IMHO of course).

So excuse me while I'm listening to some fascinating music - have a look at Steve who makes a facial expression similiar to mine at this moment:



Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:34

Originally posted by con safo con safo wrote:

I dont know how you CAN't call him prog!

The Ultra Zone
Studio Album
199

He's obviously very ahead of the times!



on a serious note tho, i havent heard much by him and cant make any valid comments, instead i bring you this picture:



KILLER MULLET DUDE!

...I added that album.My mistake....it has since been corrected to 1999



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Posted By: Gedhead
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:53


Vai has more reason to be here than that band whose name starts with Q.  I don't have as much of a problem with this one.  He did put some quality time in with Zappa and prog influences are definitely in his music. 


Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:55
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It's unreal - I have no idea why you guys are so sure that you're right. Preferring Malmsteen to Vai when it comes to Symphonic music ... that's one of the sickest statements I've ever read.

But we don't have to agree - I know that I'm right and you're wrong (IMHO of course).

So excuse me while I'm listening to some fascinating music - have a look at Steve who makes a facial expression similiar to mine at this moment:

^^EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!

with his stupid sunglasses tucked neatly into his frilly shirt.  and that damn ugly guitar.  I dont think he got enough attention as a child.



-------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:56

That better?



Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:02
much.  thanks.

-------------
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Posted By: M. B. Zapelini
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:03
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It's unreal - I have no idea why you guys are so sure that you're right. Preferring Malmsteen to Vai when it comes to Symphonic music ... that's one of the sickest statements I've ever read.

But we don't have to agree - I know that I'm right and you're wrong (IMHO of course).

Great picture, MikeEnRegalia - but let me make something clear: I said that "at least Malmsteen wrote symphonic rock", but I didn't say that he wrote good symphonic rock! BTW, I think that Vai is a better guitarist and composer than Malmsteen (and singer too, but happily Malmsteen doesn't sings very often) - and I have more Vai CDs in my collection than Malmsteen. I must assume that you are a Zappa fan; if I'm right, could you recommend me a good Zappa CD featuring Vai (never listed to any, and I'm curious).



Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:07
Originally posted by GoldenSpiral GoldenSpiral wrote:

^^EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!

with his stupid sunglasses tucked neatly into his frilly shirt.  and that damn ugly guitar.  I dont think he got enough attention as a child.



So that is your argument against Vai? Having a Frilly shirt and ugly guitar (?) doesn`t mean his music is not prog.
 

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Posted By: Chris88
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:09
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by dkearns dkearns wrote:

Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:


Ok I love steve vai more than life itself but I do agree with you. Put simply his music is only acsessable to musicians. As I said before he is my hero but he does not belong here.



Does that mean that this non-musician has been deluding himself?

Yeah... I didn't understand Chris' post either!

 

All I was saying is that from my experience only people who play guitar find his music apealing. Whats not to understand about it?



Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:10
Originally posted by M. B. Zapelini M. B. Zapelini wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It's unreal - I have no idea why you guys are so sure that you're right. Preferring Malmsteen to Vai when it comes to Symphonic music ... that's one of the sickest statements I've ever read.

But we don't have to agree - I know that I'm right and you're wrong (IMHO of course).

Great picture, MikeEnRegalia - but let me make something clear: I said that "at least Malmsteen wrote symphonic rock", but I didn't say that he wrote good symphonic rock! BTW, I think that Vai is a better guitarist and composer than Malmsteen (and singer too, but happily Malmsteen doesn't sings very often) - and I have more Vai CDs in my collection than Malmsteen. I must assume that you are a Zappa fan; if I'm right, could you recommend me a good Zappa CD featuring Vai (never listed to any, and I'm curious).

I'd recommend You Are What You Is and Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch. But you'll have a hard time recognizing Vai on those recordings, because he really just played what Zappa told him to. I'd recommend his album Flex-Able, it's very much influenced by his time as Zappa's guitarist. It features some songs that he often plays on tour even now, more than 20 years later: Call it Sleep and The Attitude Song.

BTW: If you want to get to know Zappa, I'd strongly recommend buying live recordings or even better: Live DVDs. There's a nice Zappa DVD available on Ebay, it's called "The Torture Never Stops". It's an entire concert (about 2 hours) from 1981 featuring - among others - Steve Vai.



Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:12

yea, I dont really mean hes not progressive, he probably is, and I like many metal-fusion guitarists.  I just have a personal problem with Steve.  he just annoys me.  hes a great musician and all, his image problem just rubs me the wrong way I guess.  Im not saying he shouldnt be included.  Im just venting my frustrations.

it also could be that I'm jealous.

but probably not.



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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:15
Originally posted by GoldenSpiral GoldenSpiral wrote:

yea, I dont really mean hes not progressive, he probably is, and I like many metal-fusion guitarists.  I just have a personal problem with Steve.  he just annoys me.  hes a great musician and all, his image problem just rubs me the wrong way I guess.  Im not saying he shouldnt be included.  Im just venting my frustrations.

it also could be that I'm jealous.

but probably not.

I thought you were a bass player - if any, you might be jealous of Billy Sheehan (he has been touring with Steve for years).



Posted By: M. B. Zapelini
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:20
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by M. B. Zapelini M. B. Zapelini wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It's unreal - I have no idea why you guys are so sure that you're right. Preferring Malmsteen to Vai when it comes to Symphonic music ... that's one of the sickest statements I've ever read.

But we don't have to agree - I know that I'm right and you're wrong (IMHO of course).

Great picture, MikeEnRegalia - but let me make something clear: I said that "at least Malmsteen wrote symphonic rock", but I didn't say that he wrote good symphonic rock! BTW, I think that Vai is a better guitarist and composer than Malmsteen (and singer too, but happily Malmsteen doesn't sings very often) - and I have more Vai CDs in my collection than Malmsteen. I must assume that you are a Zappa fan; if I'm right, could you recommend me a good Zappa CD featuring Vai (never listed to any, and I'm curious).

I'd recommend You Are What You Is and Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch. But you'll have a hard time recognizing Vai on those recordings, because he really just played what Zappa told him to. I'd recommend his album Flex-Able, it's very much influenced by his time as Zappa's guitarist. It features some songs that he often plays on tour even now, more than 20 years later: Call it Sleep and The Attitude Song.

BTW: If you want to get to know Zappa, I'd strongly recommend buying live recordings or even better: Live DVDs. There's a nice Zappa DVD available on Ebay, it's called "The Torture Never Stops". It's an entire concert (about 2 hours) from 1981 featuring - among others - Steve Vai.

Thanks!! I will search for those albums. "The Torture Never Stops" - one of my favourite titles ever, I always use it when somebody plays awful music (there is a Brazilian musical style called "pagode" which is the best definiton to tortue).



Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:25

eh, I prefer stu hamm to sheehan, though he is really good.

I just think maybe there are some people more deserving than Vai.  Satriani is better than Vai IMO, and Buckethead is more progressive and original.  I think a recent headline in The Onion summed Vai up nicely "STEVE VAI IMPRESSES THE HELL OUT OF NEIGHBORHOOD 12 YEAR OLDS"

 (I can't find a link sadly, they make you pay for it these days )



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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:30
Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by dkearns dkearns wrote:

Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:


Ok I love steve vai more than life itself but I do agree with you. Put simply his music is only acsessable to musicians. As I said before he is my hero but he does not belong here.



Does that mean that this non-musician has been deluding himself?

Yeah... I didn't understand Chris' post either!

 

All I was saying is that from my experience only people who play guitar find his music apealing. Whats not to understand about it?

Thats what I don't understasnd, it simply isn't true!



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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:31
Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:36

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

Once agian I agree with everything Mike has been saying, this is becoming a habit!

To me Satriani's music is far more "Straightforward" than Vai's. The Pupil has become greater than the Master!



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:37
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:

All I was saying is that from my experience only people who play guitar find his music apealing. Whats not to understand about it?

Thats what I don't understasnd, it simply isn't true!

He has a point. I'd say that the basic (prog) music fan either likes virtuosity, or he doesn't. If he doesn't like it, it may cloud his judgement of what else the artist has to offer. The other way round, people who love virtuosity are influenced by that also - they might overrate the artist because his virtuosity might distract them from other qualities that are more important.

I think that originality, emotionality and artistical integrity are the most important qualities of artists. Vai has all that AND the virtuosity, and that's why he's my favorite guitarist.



Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:40
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

Once agian I agree with everything Mike has been saying, this is becoming a habit!

To me Satriani's music is far more "Straightforward" than Vai's. The Pupil has become greater than the Master!

I agree with you also - I guess the phrase that I highlighted is synonymous to "far less progressive".



Posted By: Chris88
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:55

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

vais fire garden suite is based on the phrygian dominant scale and so is satrianis oriental melody then it moves to the phrygian scale then minor pentatonic. Not complex? I think satriani could play with an orchestra but he just chooses not to. And I can see how you call him shred which he is but if you disect his music it is so much more, some examples Flying in a blue dream song, Rubina, and my favorite starry night. He puts so much feeling into his music maybe emo shred fits him.



Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 10:00
Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

vais fire garden suite is based on the phrygian dominant scale and so is satrianis oriental melody then it moves to the phrygian scale then minor pentatonic. Not complex? I think satriani could play with an orchestra but he just chooses not to. And I can see how you call him shred which he is but if you disect his music it is so much more, some examples Flying in a blue dream song, Rubina, and my favorite starry night. He puts so much feeling into his music maybe emo shred fits him.

I did say that I like Satch, and although I called him "Shred", he's far from being a "mindless shredder" like Michael Angelo Batio or Yngwie Malmsteen. I really love his ballads and acoustic songs, and laid back blues variations like the last track on The Extremist.

You can't reduce the Fire Garden Suite to scales. Phrygian dominant is indeed a scale that's heavily used by Shredders in the Metal domain. Consider Lucky Charms, if the oriental influences distract you from the other means of symphonic composition.



Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: August 08 2005 at 10:00
Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

vais fire garden suite is based on the phrygian dominant scale and so is satrianis oriental melody then it moves to the phrygian scale then minor pentatonic. Not complex? I think satriani could play with an orchestra but he just chooses not to. And I can see how you call him shred which he is but if you disect his music it is so much more, some examples Flying in a blue dream song, Rubina, and my favorite starry night. He puts so much feeling into his music maybe emo shred fits him.

emo shred?  I think not, but other than that you hit the nail on the head .  Satch's music to me comes across as much more honest and meaningful and well-composed.  Vai's "hey, look at me I'm a badass" antics make Satriani look humble in comparison.  let me clarify that i'm not crying "unprog" at vai, just stating my preferences.



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