Love for Trespass? (Genesis)
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98176
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Topic: Love for Trespass? (Genesis)
Posted By: Ruby900
Subject: Love for Trespass? (Genesis)
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 05:41
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Greetings! I have been re-visting all the Genesis albums after a very long rest, and what a joy it has been! In particular I've been blown away (again) by the brilliance of Trespass. What an album! So how do we feel about it? Many seem to conclude that Foxtrot and SEBTP are the peak of Genesis - but for me Trespass is where it's at! ------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |
Replies:
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 05:43
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Seems to me a gap in choices between "finest hour" and "good in parts", and my answer would fall in there. It is one of my favorite Genesis albums, so I'll go with the former option. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 05:47
Ditto ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
HolyMoly wrote:Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 05:54
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Not their finest hour, but somewhere in the middle part of my list of Genesis albums. Voted for option #2. ------------- 
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Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 06:07
| This album starts well and it ends well. Something is lacking in the middle ... |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 06:19
| .... their finest hour. |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 06:20
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Option 2. Fantastic album, but SEBTP stands out as their finest for me. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 06:26
Suggestion for title of category? ------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 06:42
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Oh look, ANOTHER Genesis poll. We haven't had one of those for a whole 10 minutes! And your missing the rather obvious option of "Good album all the way through, but not their best". ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: mrtngrnm
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 06:42
| Trespass is somewhere between "finest hour" and "good in parts". My favorite is Selling England by the Pound but I love all the Gabriel albums. |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 06:46
Nice tone to your post - very necessary  ------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 07:44
A very good album. Flawed in places but with an amazing atmoshphere. How can something sound ancient and yet 'fresh'..?  That's how my ears interpret it anyway. Stagnation is my favourite song on the album. 3.5 - 4 stars. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 08:27
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Meh. Just meh. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 09:07
| It is my fave Genesis album, does things for me the others don't. |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 09:28
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I'd have to give it another spin, since i didn't listened to it anymore since a long time ago. Anyway my fave was "Looking For Someone", listened to this track many times. However, Trespass didn't become my favourite, on the other hand The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway I consider my favourite for these more than 20 years since I first listened to it. -------------  "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 09:40
| There are some good songs but it never is going to be really good because the production is so bad--- |
Posted By: The-time-is-now
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 09:53
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One of their best albums. -------------  One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 10:07
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It's definitely in my top five Genesis albums
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 10:23
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I love it but it is not their finest hour, so I will opt for the curator's egg. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Kirillov
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 10:43
| Sometimes I think it might be their finest hour, so I've gone for the first option. |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 11:28
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Phideaux posted recently on FB that it's his favorite Genesis album. Been meaning to give it a proper listen since then. I admit I've never really listened to it - I mean, not really closely, for a period of time necessary to properly appreciate an album. Tragic, right? I'm kind of new to Genesis, only really coming to love their albums in the past few years...
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Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 11:28
It's alright 
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Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 14:30
| Not on the top 5 for me, but close. The best thing of Trespass is the atmosphere that the album transmits as a whole. Musically it's great but lacks of some maturity. Looking for someone and Dusk are the low points. The rest is great. So I choose the option 2. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 14:49
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Second option for me as I really like most of it. I actually prefer it to Nursery Cryme. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: the lighthouse keepe
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 15:13
| Poor production,and the drumming of John Mayhew,spoil this album.Some excellent compositions are on offer on Trespass,and the superb album cover is one of their best.B+ for me. |
Posted By: bloodnarfer
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 15:29
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Its in my top three. But I wouldn't say its my favorite. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ramza1316" rel="nofollow - www.last.fm/user/ramza1316 https://open.spotify.com/user/1211221845" rel="nofollow - https://open.spotify.com/user/1211221845 |
Posted By: The Jester
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 15:50
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Sorry, no vote from me. Trespass is a small masterpiece for me, and not 'good in parts'. In the other hand, it's not 'their finest moment' either. (again in my opinion). For me their finest moment would be 'Nurcery's Cryme'. not that all those matters really... We are all lovers of music afterall...  ------------- If anybody wants please visit: http://www.gfreedomathina.blogspot.com/ This is my Blog mostly about Rock music, but also a few other things as well. You are most welcome! Thank you. :) |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 16:09
Thanks, I do try my best. It would be nice if people used the search button, after 10 years there isn't a Genesis poll that someone hasn't thought of, heck I know I've made a couple of polls about Trespass myself. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 16:22
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I like eggs, so I'll go wit that option. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 19:36
I generally regard Trespass as my 3rd favorite behind those two. On the other hand, I do enjoy it more than any album by Yes or ELP to put things in perspective. ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 20:45
Give the OP a break.....yikes not all users on this forum have time to trawl through the most useless search function in internet history. New polls are fine and if your bored with them just don't visit them......just a suggestion ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 21:48
| None of the options are adequate for me. I wouldn't say it's their finest hour, since they did much better songs on latter albums, but on the other hand, as a whole, it's the album I like the best, because it doesn't have any song I really dislike either, which is more than I can say from any other album I've heard from them. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 22:12
Quite. Although I'm going to have to round up with protest!!!   I have to say, when I first started listening to in on my portable turntable with the attached speakers, I was severely moved by the music. It was Follow You Follow Me on the radio that turned be on to Genesis first and then I started to explore backwards through the discography. And oddly enough that you should mention this as I just got a copy of the 1970-1975 box set, which has the first decent copy of Trespass I've ever had. I had it on LP and a couple versions on CD. But the surround sound mix is very nice. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 22:47
| What's striking about Trespass is the absolute purity of Gabriel's voice. Sheer power on just about all of it. I'd definitely love to own the early 2000's (2006[?]) remaster of the album. Thing is, the album was just a stepping stone to better ones. |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 22:53
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I like Trespass pretty good, but it's nowhere near a favorite of mine. I prefer Nursery Cryme by a vast margin. Of course, things really start picking up around Foxtrot. I think Trespass is good in parts, but I'm not greatly impressed by Anthony Phillips as a band member. The drummer, John Mayhew, is only passable. Genesis needed Hackett and Collins to become a better band.
------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 23:16
This says it for me. |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 23:48
I'd choose Tresspass over Foxtrot. I do agree about Nursery Cryme and I'd like to change the poll to "one of their finest moments". Hackett and Collins were definitely essential for the band's growth musically. I'm especially happy to have Hackett in particular. But Trespass is a magnificent artifact in it's own right. Mayhew was not a great drummer, but I thought, with his timidness, he did a great job of not intruding on the ornate feel of the album. Collins would have provided a more authoritative performance, sure, but I think it would be an imposition on the final product. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 00:27
Seconded.
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Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 00:45
| This is my second favourite Genesis album. I've been playing it often in the last 2 or 3 years. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 04:20
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I'd go for that bit between good in parts and finest hour, which does not appear to be an option.Say, Good in parts as the additions of Collins and Hackett gave the band a strength they really needed, especially for concerts but also a more dynamic approach. But hey, in order to be progressive one has to progress from something to somewhere else. And I like the idea of many polls even on repeat subjects. They get out of date and it's good to see ideas come along with new forum people. Anyway, I don't want to use the search facility to find stuff. Oh, and I think Invisible Touch (with the unedited tracks and B sides included) is a fine album also. There would not be some sort of implication inherent therein? |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 07:21
"I guess I'm doing that..." also. |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 09:34
The problem I have in general with Trespass is it's just so lopsided. The Knife is a strong track, but being a guitarist myself I just yearned for Steve Hackett here. Surely, he would helped Trespass go into a different direction. I just thought this album lacked a certain edge that I get from those Hackett and Collins recordings and for that alone I could never rank it very highly. Just give me Nursery Cryme through Wind & Wuthering and I'm a happy man. All of this said, I do need to revisit Trespass as it's been far too long, but, as I mentioned, I'm not greatly impressed by Anthony Phillips and his contribution to the band.
------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 10:15
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There's a certain fragility to Trespass which is really kind of touching and moving. There's a feeling that the players aren't 100% sure of what they're doing, and that it may all crumble to the ground at any moment. It was a pretty new thing they were trying to do, and it seems like they knew it, and were pretty excited about it but nervous at the same time. This tension makes the quiet sections more vulnernable, and the loud sections exuberant and occasionally a tad over-eager. Foxtrot, by contrast, sounds like a group of confident experts who were proud and sure of themselves. Overall, the latter (Foxtrot) makes for a better album, but Trespass has that unique tension that never fails to grab me.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 10:26
Really good post 
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Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 17:20
Completely agree. I still regard the album as a huge success, even considering the feelings behind it. ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 22:49
Anthony phillips did do some interesting things, and, like Hackett, one can't always tell what's guitar and what's keyboard. There's a place I like to note where he plays a note and pulls up on the volume knob, then hammers on a note a whole step up while going down on the volume knob. The result doesn't sound guitar-like at all. It's a simple and primitive thing that Hackett took to new hights with his volume pedal experiments, true. Anthony Phllips didn't necessarily show a great deal of virtuosity, yet he usually threw in some sort of twist. The fingerpicking on Dusk is pretty straightforward, but uses a capo. It reminds me too of the alternate tunings Mike Rutherford would later play with. The twelve string harmonies he and Mike Rutherford would play often created composite chords. I don't think that Mike Rutherford would have developed to the same extent in the same way without his partnering up with Phillips. The album did lack a certain edge by and large, as you say, and Anthony Phillips did not have quite the same imagination and quirkiness and beautiful sustain in his leads as Hackett, but he was a colorist not unlike Hackett. There was an ornate and fairytale-like feeling to Tresspass that I have to attribute to him, and which also makes it click for me. Of course the best old Genesis album is whichever one you're in the mood for at a particular moment. Good to hear from you. |
Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: May 08 2014 at 14:33
Maybe with Hackett there could have been another musical direction , but I'm not sure that something better, yes different. Phillips contribution in Trespass surely was big. All those 12 strings are a trademark of him and Rutherford. The guitar solo on the Knife is from him too, Visions of Angels was written by him (one of the best tracks in the album IMO) and Dusk mainly too. I think that Ant can't be judged by this way because he almost had no time to develop his own contribution to the band. Was only one album. The contribution of Hackett in Nursery Cryme I think was just minimal, and was on some arrengements but almost nothing about the songwritting. He could develop his own contributtion in the following albums, polishing his owns style. If he would have left the band after Cryme his contribution would have been lesser than the Phillips one.
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Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: May 08 2014 at 20:15
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Curates egg - Good in parts.
------------- When he rides, my fears subside. For darkness turns once more to light. Through the skies, his white horse flies. To find a land beyond the night. |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: May 09 2014 at 16:03
Of course, album of the day for me  ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 09 2014 at 21:56
Who knows what would have happened had Phillips remained in Genesis? I think Phil Collins would have joined Genesis anyway since their drummer, John Mayhew, wasn't really a good drummer and the band were obviously going into more complex musical territory. Even Banks recognizes that Mayhew just wasn't right for the band and Mayhew really wasn't good enough to play the material they had already written like The Musical Box. Knowing many of Phillips solo albums, I don't think he was a powerful enough player. Sure, the pastoral, more tranquil moments of say The Music Box could be played well by Phillips, but when it came to giving the music some bone-crushing power, he wasn't the man for the job. For me, Hackett was also a better improviser than Phillips. If you put Trespass and Nursery Cryme back to back, there's no question that Hackett was just a more assured and confident guitarist. Anyway, I just don't think Phillips was right for Genesis, especially after the massive improvement of Nursery Cryme.
------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 09 2014 at 23:37
I think you're spot on with that. Phillips and Mayhew were not suited to the direction Genesis was headed. But were they suited to Trespass? I would say 'yes', but I can understand others saying 'no'. |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 11:11
This is true. Trespass really isn't a musically complicated album so it does suit Phillips and Mayhew, but thankfully the band pressed forward and found Hackett and Collins, which gave the band the assurance, and musical flexibility, it needed to become the influential band that everyone acknowledges now.
------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: King Manuel
Date Posted: May 11 2014 at 13:14
Couldn't agree more! Always thought this album sounds dam good for such an early work! Also favour stagnation above the other tracks. ------------- Don't Bore Us, Get To The Chorus |
Posted By: charles_ryder
Date Posted: May 11 2014 at 13:34
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My favorite Genesis' album with a magical atmosphere. ------------- om mani padme hum |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: May 11 2014 at 17:14
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A lot better than nursery. All the songs are pretty good. I can only say that for 3 songs on the next album ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: May 12 2014 at 18:28
| It's the start of their epic run but was bested by Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England, The Lamb and Trick... |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 05:43
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Like,not Love - The Knife is the killer track ------------- 
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Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 26 2014 at 21:42
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I've been listening to Trespass over the past few weeks or should I say since I made my rather negative comments about Phillips, Mayhew, and the overall music. I've come to the conclusion after several recent listens that this is a very good album overall. It's certainly not Genesis' 'finest hour' or anything, but it does show some interesting ideas, especially in regards to harmonies and rhythms. The overall atmosphere is also something that's appealing to me. So, while not as great of a success as I feel Nursery Cryme was, it does have it's own charms and judging this album on it's own merits and not comparing it to anything else, it's not a bad album. I've certainly been enjoying it. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: May 27 2014 at 10:21
With that hinted-at recommendation, now I have to get the remastered version of the album (CD). Just stellar vocals by Gabriel. By the way, is anyone else on this forum getting tired of all the self-indulgent graphics clogging up the screen. Enough, already. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: May 27 2014 at 10:24
(and I'm not talking about Rael on the rapids. That's subtle and well-done.) |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: May 27 2014 at 13:46
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Foxtrot was their finest hour. Trespass is a close second. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 27 2014 at 14:20
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What a coincidence - just started listening to the album. I feel it's only good in parts. I like only four tracks on it; the other two I don't care for that much.
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: May 27 2014 at 16:15
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Never understood why there isn't more love for this one. Sure there were better things to come but that doesn't mean Trespass isn't a wonderful album. What a dramatic leap from the first one too, which I also enjoy very much. It's the 80s where Genesis begins to lose its appeal for me, decreasing with each successive album. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 28 2014 at 09:49
Perhaps it has to do with the overall sound of Trespass is tranquil and atmospheric with a heavy reliance on 12-string guitars and less 'rocking' than their prior albums. I also think Collins and Hackett helped transform the band for the better, but I'm beginning to really admire what Anthony Phillips brought to the band. John Mayhew was expendable and I'll continue to hold this opinion. He did an 'okay' job but it's easy to see why he was dismissed from the band. He simply couldn't keep up with the band's complex arrangements. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 28 2014 at 13:17
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^I agree. Mayhew kept up only just barely. It has been said in interviews with the band that he did not learn new patterns quickly or easily. He also did not keep time for the band. He was more like a percussionist adding fills here and there when it sounded good. And it did sound good for Tresspass. It just wouldn't carry on into what was to come. White Mountain is frequently overlooked, but it really points the direction of the band going into Nursery Cryme more than anything else. Big orchestral sound with epic and mythic lyrics. There was an ornate fairy tale-like sensibility that resonated throughout the album. The only track I don't care a whole lot for is Visions of Angels. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: May 29 2014 at 00:25
| I've always been puzzled by the distinction made between Trespass and the two albums following it. I see all three as belonging together as a unit, one as good as the other two. |