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Triumvirat

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Discription: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98178
Printed Date: September 18 2014 at 17:16
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.69 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Triumvirat
Posted By: Kirillov
Subject: Triumvirat
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 09:43
I bought 'Illusions on a Double Dimple' last week and spent the whole Bank Holiday weekend listening to it! Which album of theirs should I get next? Cheers



Replies:
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 10:55
I congratulate you for this actually great acquisition. I'm not a Triumvirat specialist as for example presdoug, but for sure Mediterranean Tales, Spartacus are the other "must have" Triumvirat albums, and I would also include Pompeii, even if my favourites oscilate between MT and Spartacus.  In Pompeii there are nice melodies too, the orchestral parts are also nice and there are some amazing tracks as well.

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"Going on means going far. Going far means returning. (Tao Te Ching)"


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 16:20
^yeah, Ric is right, two other "must haves" are Mediterranean Tales and Spartacus. I couldn't live my life without those albums, and Illusions.
           Later on down the road, if you wish, Pompeii and Old Loves Die Hard, which are more transitional records, and not up to the quality of Tales, Illusions and Spartacus, but have some of their own appeal, and are worth listening to.
                 Illusions On A Double Dimple is simply the greatest prog album of all time, imo. Glad to hear you're listening to it.
              Their last two albums A La Carte and Russian Roulette sound like a completely different band. After listening to a live boot recording featuring material from those albums, I was able to see some merit in them. The songs sound more gutsy live, and I was able to appreciate those albums more after that live sound experience.


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"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 18:31
Illusions is still my favorite.  The other two are still essentials. Big smile  I put Pompeii in fourth.

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Posted By: zachfive
Date Posted: May 06 2014 at 20:48
Another shout out for Old Loves Die Hard. A solid album in my opinion.


Posted By: Kirillov
Date Posted: May 07 2014 at 02:51
Thanks for the responses. I've ordered 'Spartacus'.


Posted By: Inceptional
Date Posted: August 25 2014 at 20:21
Hi Presdoug. I just discovered this site. I have been a major prog fan all my life and you seem to be keen on Triumvirat. I definitely need some advice from you. I have searched high and low all over the net and I can't find what I have anywhere. In fact everything I have read indicates the performance is lost or destroyed. I have an audio recording of Triumvirat on ABC In Concert from the mid 1970's in my personal collection. I actually hooked a tape recorder up to my TV the night it was broadcast. Now I have to think somebody else must have done the same thing but I sure can't find anyone. Here is where I need your advice. Is this super rare? Is it valuable? I don't want to just post it if it is going to cause a problem with legal issues. I also would hate to give it up if it has high value to someone who can legally publish it. I have no experience with posting to youtube but it would be nice to be able to share this with other Triumvirat fans. I have a large prog collection and many rare items. The bottom line is I need to know just how rare this is. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks in advance and all the best. 


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 00:21
Mediterranean Tales for sure


Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 01:10
I don't think you can really for wrong with the first three albums (especially `Illusions...'), but definitely `Old Loves' and `Pompeii' have plenty of great moments mixed in with some smoother AOR vocals.

A very talented and tasteful band!


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 01:13
Originally posted by Inceptional

Hi Presdoug. I just discovered this site. I have been a major prog fan all my life and you seem to be keen on Triumvirat. I definitely need some advice from you. I have searched high and low all over the net and I can't find what I have anywhere. In fact everything I have read indicates the performance is lost or destroyed. I have an audio recording of Triumvirat on ABC In Concert from the mid 1970's in my personal collection. I actually hooked a tape recorder up to my TV the night it was broadcast. Now I have to think somebody else must have done the same thing but I sure can't find anyone. Here is where I need your advice. Is this super rare? Is it valuable? I don't want to just post it if it is going to cause a problem with legal issues. I also would hate to give it up if it has high value to someone who can legally publish it. I have no experience with posting to youtube but it would be nice to be able to share this with other Triumvirat fans. I have a large prog collection and many rare items. The bottom line is I need to know just how rare this is. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks in advance and all the best. 

unless its a high quality audio recording then I wouldn't get your hopes up.

With all due respect to Triumivirat they were never a 'front line' prog band and therefore the interest will be limited as well.

Doug may offer you a good price for it thoughSmile


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 06:32
Hi, Inceptional, and welcome to PA.
              Richard has some points, there.
                  I have seen a fragmentary recording of that concert you taped on a couple of existing bootleg recordings of Triumvirat, "Live Tour 1974-1975" and "Flashback". It is only about 12 minutes of the first Illusions suite played. To answer your question, yeah, a complete concert of this is quite rare.
                   Unless it's really, really great sound, it would not be a real hot item of interest. There are also other concerts in their entirety from that same tour already existing out there, but are just bootlegs due to their sound quality issues, and probably will always remain so.
                       I would not encourage you to make it available on youtube or made available as several copies for sale due to copyright issues. An occasional copy made to someone for their own use is not problematic for you though. I qualify as someone from that latter category, I would give you something for a copy, which would be used for my own personal listening. PM me if you are interested in doing that.


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"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               


Posted By: Inceptional
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 10:17
Thank you for the welcome and the quick reply. Your answer is pretty much what I expected. I don't know how old you are but because of my age and background, I might be able to shed some light on the ABC In Concert broadcast.  You mentioned you have heard a fragmented version of the show running about 12 minutes. The entire broadcast ran 11:08. The annoucer starts off "From theGerman school of progressive music". I was always under the impression that this was the entire performance, just for ABC. It was a share the stage kinda thing with other artist much like Midnight Special.  I guess I was wrong if you are indicating this was only a portion of a full concert. Please verify if you can.

The quality is TV of the day so it is poor by audiophile standards. Which brings up a sore point with me about reissues with very poor quality bonus cuts or any bonus cuts at all. I much prefer an album be presented as originally intended. It is like putting a moustache on the Mona Lisa. The Van Der Graaf reissues come to mind in particular. (Off topic-sorry).

Anyway, you are welcome to a copy if you would like one for free. I used to be a keyboard player (of no fame at all) back in the day so I am used to not making money with music. At least not very much. We actually used to play an excerpt from Dimple in the local nightclubs.

One last thing. I found you comments about the last 2 Rat albums very interesting. I too find some merit in them albeit of a more commercial nature. They almost appeared to be looking for a hit record by impersonation on Ala Carte." Late Again" sounds like Billy Joel while" I Don't Even Know Their Name" sounds like Toto. The craziest of all is" Darlin'" which sounds exactly like The Four Seasons. Listen to those songs with that in mind and give me your take. I personally like" Waterfall and A Bavarian In New York" the best.

Anyway, thank you again. Very nice place here indeed.
All the best.


Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 11:06
Illusions is the only album I own by said act - and a solid record it is indeed!

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His excited eyes from within the dark interior glazed;
watered in appreciation of his thoughtful preparation.


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 11:27
Spartacus!


Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 12:06
Illusions is my favorite as well, but I think Old Loves Die Hard is under-rated. It might be because it was the first one I heard and I have great memories, but I prefer it to Spartacus and Pomeii. The parts that get a little "poppy" remind me of Supertramp, which to me is a good thing. It's also about 50 minutes long, which is longer than most vinyl albums of the time. I remember I couldn't fit it on one side of a 90 minute cassette.


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 16:40
Originally posted by Inceptional

Thank you for the welcome and the quick reply. Your answer is pretty much what I expected. I don't know how old you are but because of my age and background, I might be able to shed some light on the ABC In Concert broadcast.  You mentioned you have heard a fragmented version of the show running about 12 minutes. The entire broadcast ran 11:08. The annoucer starts off "From theGerman school of progressive music". I was always under the impression that this was the entire performance, just for ABC. It was a share the stage kinda thing with other artist much like Midnight Special.  I guess I was wrong if you are indicating this was only a portion of a full concert. Please verify if you can.

The quality is TV of the day so it is poor by audiophile standards. Which brings up a sore point with me about reissues with very poor quality bonus cuts or any bonus cuts at all. I much prefer an album be presented as originally intended. It is like putting a moustache on the Mona Lisa. The Van Der Graaf reissues come to mind in particular. (Off topic-sorry).

Anyway, you are welcome to a copy if you would like one for free. I used to be a keyboard player (of no fame at all) back in the day so I am used to not making money with music. At least not very much. We actually used to play an excerpt from Dimple in the local nightclubs.

One last thing. I found you comments about the last 2 Rat albums very interesting. I too find some merit in them albeit of a more commercial nature. They almost appeared to be looking for a hit record by impersonation on Ala Carte." Late Again" sounds like Billy Joel while" I Don't Even Know Their Name" sounds like Toto. The craziest of all is" Darlin'" which sounds exactly like The Four Seasons. Listen to those songs with that in mind and give me your take. I personally like" Waterfall and A Bavarian In New York" the best.

Anyway, thank you again. Very nice place here indeed.
All the best.
There is a PA  member  with the username of TODDLER who claims that he saw the In Concert performance, and that it ran for 40 minutes. I have not seen audio or video of that to verify, though. I did e-mail the host of In Concert at that time, Don E. Branker, and he said the tape of that concert  was thrown out, and nothing extant exists to verify the length, except for the existing bootleg excerpt which is 12:02 exactly. That is cool that you were a keyboard player, and doing some of Dimple!Cool I would love a copy of what you have. I will relisten to those tracks from A La Carte.


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"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 17:15
^the bootleg fragment I have has no announcement, so that would be cool to hear!

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"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               


Posted By: Inceptional
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 19:17
Hi again. I can tell you for a fact it was just the 11 to 12 minutes you know of as far as the broadcast is concerned. I recorded it at the time and that was all there was. The entire show was 90 minutes and had several other artist. Factor in commercials and just by logic alone there is no way it could run even close to 40 minutes. Cool and the Gang and several other commercial artist were on the same show. They make mention of the other artist at the end of my recording. Even though I only have the audio I still remember the show quite well. I could swear it was filmed on ABC's stage with the In Concert  logo behind the drums.

Normally I am not into boots at all. The only reason I brought this whole thing up is because I saw the thread about the show being lost and I could not find anything else about it until I stumbled onto this site. Triumvirat was always one of my favorite bands and not much prog rock made it onto television back in the 70's. That was why I recorded it. I was not aware of other Triumvirat boot recordings until you told me. I only collect official releases except for a few rare occasions.

Thanks again. I bothered you enough. I'll wait to hear your new response on A La Carte. Also, if you listed hard enough, there are some classic Triumvirat elements still present on Carte. Russian Roulette on the other hand is totally commercial. To restrain Fritz to that degree was difficult for me to endure. However, still better pop music then most though.


Posted By: Inceptional
Date Posted: August 26 2014 at 19:40
The exact announcement is "From the German school of progressive music, please welcome to In Concert, the sounds of Triumvirat". If the boots that are out there do not have this then how does anyone know it came from In Concert? There is a beginning and ending to the performance I recorded that clearly indicates its origin and completeness.


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: August 27 2014 at 10:32
That could be a whole new thread: '70's prog acts that were on either ABC's In Concert or NBC's Midnight Special. Anyway, I missed Triuvirat on the former but did actually see a billboard along the freeway leading into Fresno, Calif. during a mid-'70s camping trip to Yosemite that advertised the band's Old Loves Die Hard album.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 27 2014 at 11:04
Originally posted by Rednight

That could be a whole new thread: '70's prog acts that were on either ABC's In Concert or NBC's Midnight Special. Anyway, I missed Triuvirat on the former but did actually see a billboard along the freeway leading into Fresno, Calif. during a mid-'70s camping trip to Yosemite that advertised the band's Old Loves Die Hard album.


Those were the days!

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Posted By: Inceptional
Date Posted: August 27 2014 at 12:27
Hi Rednight

I don't remember too many actual prog bands being broadcast. Rock bands yes but prog was few and far between. I remember seeing Focus and Procol Harum and I think PFM. I also vividly remember a special concert that was broadcast of Rick Wakeman doing the entire Journey LP. It was complete with orchestra and the narrator who was sitting in a big suspended wicker chair reading the narrative. The old movie with Pat Boone was playing on a big screen in the background. Pretty cool as I remember.

In line with your billboard memory I also have one. I remember being stunned when a local newscast was using Wall of Doom as lead out music before a commercial for an entire summer. The first time I heard it I could not believe it. Everything was so mainstream on TV back then.  I was floored when I heard it.


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 27 2014 at 16:42
^^Those are interesting memories, guys. I am 51, so was too young around the early to mid seventies to really understand things the way you older blokes did. I do have a dvd with some footage of Gentle Giant from 1975 with the In Concert backdrop. It's called Giant On The Box, and also a dvd with a bit of Wishbone Ash In Concert footage from 1973 which is called Phoenix Rising. My only direct tv prog memories from the early seventies were Edgar Winter doing Frankenstein around '73, and a snippet of ELP with Emerson going at his keyboard in around '73, as well. I did not discover T'rat until around 1985, after they stopped touring and recording.


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"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: August 28 2014 at 10:20
Originally posted by Inceptional

Hi RednightI don't remember too many actual prog bands being broadcast. Rock bands yes but prog was few and far between. I remember seeing Focus and Procol Harum and I think PFM. I also vividly remember a special concert that was broadcast of Rick Wakeman doing the entire Journey LP. It was complete with orchestra and the narrator who was sitting in a big suspended wicker chair reading the narrative. The old movie with Pat Boone was playing on a big screen in the background. Pretty cool as I remember.In line with your billboard memory I also have one. I remember being stunned when a local newscast was using Wall of Doom as lead out music before a commercial for an entire summer. The first time I heard it I could not believe it. Everything was so mainstream on TV back then. I was floored when I heard it.


Your memories are my memories, although I believe I did see Yes on a Midnight Special once (I have a feeling there's some website on the show's broadcasts that may prove me wrong). As for Rick Wakeman's Journey', it was the late English actor David Hemmings who provided the narration on the recording and, I believe the In Concert special. With the word "believe" being used here, I could be wrong again, but were talking about 40 years ago here. Bring me my rocking chair.


Posted By: Inceptional
Date Posted: August 28 2014 at 21:09
Hold off on the rocking chair.  I BELIEVE you are right about Hemmings although I don't remember Yes. You might want to lend me the chair though because I now believe I remember 2 more. Hawkwind (doing Master of The Universe) and Strawbs (Hero and Heroin era). I just can't remember if it was TV or a very early video cassette. Help if you can.


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: August 29 2014 at 07:29
I only have the 'classic 3', Illusions, Spartacus and Mediterranean Tales, all of them great albums, Illusions being my favourite.


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 30 2014 at 13:02
I just listened to A La Carte in it's entirety, and concur and agree with Inceptional's observations. My fave songs are Waterfall and For You as they are structurally the most broad and expansive songs on the album, and A Bavarian In New York, where Fritz's keyboard skills come to the fore the most, and OCSID where there is the greatest instrumental "group synergy" present. The album is well produced, accessible and has a good flow to it musically. The vocals are nice as well.


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"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: August 30 2014 at 17:43
Originally posted by Inceptional

Hold off on the rocking chair. I BELIEVE you are right about Hemmings although I don't remember Yes. You might want to lend me the chair though because I now believe I remember 2 more. Hawkwind (doing Master of The Universe) and Strawbs (Hero and Heroin era). I just can't remember if it was TV or a very early video cassette. Help if you can.

I'd like to back up and say it was on Don Kirshner's Rock Concert where I saw Yes, not the Midnight Special. I think the former was where you might have seen at least the Strawbs, eh, sonny!


Posted By: Inceptional
Date Posted: August 30 2014 at 19:19
Thank you for backing me up. I also wanted to mention one other observation on Ala Carte. I consider all aspects of an album. Each has a unique personality. Although the music is the most important part, the other elements somehow should reflect or enhance the listening experience. Having said that I will now make my point. Sometimes the album cover can contribute to what you are about to listen to and the cover for A La Carte is so very spot on. The music on A La Carte has a very festive, out for a elegant evening  feel to it that the cover photo captures perfectly. Doug, I would like to know if it hit you the same way.


Posted By: Inceptional
Date Posted: August 30 2014 at 19:20
Ehh? What did he say?


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 30 2014 at 20:19
Originally posted by Inceptional

Thank you for backing me up. I also wanted to mention one other observation on Ala Carte. I consider all aspects of an album. Each has a unique personality. Although the music is the most important part, the other elements somehow should reflect or enhance the listening experience. Having said that I will now make my point. Sometimes the album cover can contribute to what you are about to listen to and the cover for A La Carte is so very spot on. The music on A La Carte has a very festive, out for a elegant evening  feel to it that the cover photo captures perfectly. Doug, I would like to know if it hit you the same way.
Yes, it does. I will add that the cover and music both have what I feel is a "Continental European vibe" to it. Though I've never visited Europe, that album's music and cover remind me of what I envisage Europe to feel like, in a way. I would love to visit Germany!


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"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               


Posted By: Inceptional
Date Posted: August 30 2014 at 22:48
It seems we are in accord. Even the title indicates what to expect in a way. Rather than a set that is pre determined like a meal, each song has a different influence and it is like a pick and choose order of songs, hence, A La Carte.




Posted By: JellySucker
Date Posted: August 31 2014 at 05:38
Regarding to Triumvirat, i'm curious. Have you tried their first album before? It's named "Mediterranian Tales" if i am not mistaken. It's quite good in my opinion

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