Early Prog music without synthesizers?
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Topic: Early Prog music without synthesizers?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Early Prog music without synthesizers?
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 14:04
| If monophonic and polyphonic synthesizers like the Moog, Poly Moog, Arp soloist and String ensemble had never been invented, would prog music have still flourished in the early 1970s? If so, how do you think the music would have been different? The Mellotron, Fender Rhodes and clavinets are still available as are other non synth electronic keyboards. Is this a totally theoretical question that can accept any answer? Yes. But who else except the members of Prog Archives could envision an early Prog music world without synths? |
Replies:
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 14:08
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They probably could have gotten a similar music across with acoustic/electric pianos, tuned percussion, and Mellotrons, and the absence of synthesizers would have just enabled a more thorough exploration of the possibilities of the kazoo. As it is, it's been relegated to the role of novelty instrument.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 14:11
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HolyMoly wrote:Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 15:16
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Perhaps I'm pedantic here but the String Ensemble was not a synth strictly speaking. I think Prog would have happened anyway, bands like Deep Purple got close to Prog with just a Hammond, a Rhodes or an RMI Electra Piano and a Clavinet, and in the absence of synths the Mellotron would have probably got more exploited with a bigger diversity of tapes. Of course the richness of sounds offered by synths was very important to the genre but the Prog mentality transcended instruments and sounds.
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 15:21
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Most early prog (c. 1966-72) was made without synths. ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 18:14
| Albums as "Aqualung", "Days Of Past Future", "Sargent Pepper", "In The Court Of The Crimson King" and many others did not include synthesizers, and among the best you can find |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 20:14
| Dave Stewart and many others wrangled some amazing, other-worldly tones out of their Hammonds (or Farfisas, Yamahas, Lowreys etc) by using various effects. Sounds just as cutting edge and interesting as synthesisers. Funny how you can pick a mini-moog, no matter which keyboardists used them. Somewhat generic, but still adorable. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 20:42
| Gnidrolog. |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 21:41
I think so. The first two King Crimson albums didn't have synth on them(neither did the Wetton Bruford era) and neither did the Nice or early Jethro Tull, most proto prog and lots of other stuff. I think you still would have had the long song format and other ways for bands to be creative. The truth is there is plenty of prog that doesn't have synth but it depends on what you like and what you go looking for. |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 21:42
That's because most of the albums you just mentioned were released before the synth became in vogue. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 21:48
As previous posters have already stated, the likes of the Nice, King Crimson, Jethro Tull and much later (cough) Queen have all made very successful albums without recourse to any analogue Synths. I believe that the so-called 'Symph biggies' say, Yes, ELP and Genesis would still have been popular and successful without Synthesizers as their music is certainly embellished by their use but not necessarily dependent on them. By way of contrast, it's hard to imagine how someone like Tangerine Dream or Kraftwerk would have subsequently developed without the advent of Synth technology (though I am aware that both made albums without them at the outset) Keith Emerson once said that he considered himself primarily an organ and piano player with the Synths just being 'some icing on the cake' and that maybe sums up their role in much Prog music. (i.e. it's not silenced by The Utah Saints Unplugged scenario) ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 11 2014 at 21:56
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I like the early and latter day synths in prog. What the hell is the matter with you???
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 02:36
Yeah, remember that most of those synths in the first half of the 70's were monophonic so they were not the base of the music but were mainly used only for solo lines and adornments, the keyboards 'thick' music was played on organs, Mellotrons etc. And indeed Queen's infamous 'No Synthesizers' quote remained until (if I'm correct) The Game
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 03:50
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What this thread needs is some wild RPI. Something that proves the sub isn't all about Italian Symphonic prog (I hate that term) : Cervello - Melos Procession - Frontiera These two are all about the rock. It's raw and melodic at the same time, much credited to the umphh of a guitar attack. I do think I spot a shy mellotron on both albums, but it's a rare thing. Happens on one track in both albums. While Melos has a wild yet highly welcoming fusion twist to it and Frontiera sounding altogether more earthy and rocking, you still feel a shared fling for the endemic melodic fingerprint of early RPI. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 04:08
------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 04:58
| Aphrodite's Child 666 is probably my favourite 'keyboard album' that doesn't have synths. Vangelis didn't start using them until he moved to England in 1975. I think that album proves that prog would still have thrived without synths. A lot of the appeal of the synth was visual with those massive keyboard stacks used by Emerson and Wakeman. Both those musicians could function perfectly well without them although I suspect that Emerson would have been happier with just an organ and piano than Wakeman. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 06:57
Yep, blues shorn of analogue synth technology = blues with a wistful look in it's eye. Robert Moog was an unwitting slave trader. -------------
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 11:30
PC time. It's a Jaw's harp. As in used in the mouth and supported by the jaw. Just saying. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 11:36
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Oh, and all the talk above about original Prog bands not using synths and faring very well..What they said! Plus, as was witnessed by a few in the late sixties and still the early seventies, my guess would be that more of them would have taken to using the orchestra proper as the synth sections. Much innovation has been done with acoustic instruments over the years. Is Harry Partch prog?? ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 11:43
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 12:32
$$$ talks. If you can't afford a Porsche then you are not going to drive one to work. Whatever prog bands who wanted to use synth tech only did so when they could afford it; the same way some bands used a Mellotron instead of hiring a whole orchestra. In some cases, as in the first Gentle Giant album, a synth will be used on the studio albums (because the studio had one) but the band would not perform live with one (because they didn't own one). So, GG wanted to experiment with synth tech from the get-go but could only afford to tour with a synth in the mid-70s. ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 12:37
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Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 12:42
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70's Queen... don't know about you but definitely for me, period. ------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 12:47
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 13 2014 at 02:37
| What about Deep Purple? I'm not sure Jon Lord used synths , perhaps he did but nothing springs to mind. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 14 2014 at 08:12
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 14 2014 at 09:59
| Genesis' Trespass had no synthesizer and no mellotron. Organs and 12-strings can create big sounds. Organs have quite a range of timbre. Guitars can create all sorts of sounds that do not sound like guitar. Very simple filtering can make a guitar sound like some classic synth sounds. Effects pedals were coming out at the time, and they would simply have been relied upon (even more) without mellotrons and synths and some more fringe effects like ring modulation would have been more thoroughly explored. Use of the e-bow would have been more extensive. Multiple chorus and reverb and delay pedals would have been used to thicken the sound. |
Posted By: uvtraveler
Date Posted: July 14 2014 at 11:40
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Led Zeppelin's "Song Remains the Same" off Houses of the Holy is "prog rock" disguised as hard rock...Even "Four Sticks" from IV unless you have to have a keyboard to be "prog rock" in which case the question is circular. As a guitarist, I find Jimmy Page to have probably been the first high-profile rock guitarist to write prog rock without keyboards. I'm sure many people here will disagree...but from a harmonic and rhythmic point of view, I don't see much difference in these two songs from a lot of early 70s prog rock. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 14 2014 at 13:42
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 14 2014 at 23:30
Thank you. Filtering in the form of wah wah pedals was first employed on record by Frank Zappa, if I remember correctly, on his first record, Freak Out. The energy bow (e-bow) was invented in 1969, not bad timing for Prog. Reverb was built into amplifiers starting in the 1950s. This was of course the slap back version of reverb. I'm not certain when the modern "room" or "hall" reverbs came out. Chorus effect pedals came along, if I recall, in 1968. Ring modulation goes back to the 1950s (or maybe the 40s ?). Stockhausen used it in a composition sometime in the 50s. Ring modulation was also used in Dr. Who in the early 60s. Ring mod pedals were available in the Prog era, although they were never a popular item. There were other pedals available throughout the Prog era that I hadn't mentioned as well (e.g. distortion pedals and octave dividers, phase shifters, and flangers). Nothing digital. Everything was analog. Anyone familiar with effects knows that it's not just individual effects themselves that are really special, but the odd combinations thereof that make things really interesting. They were not just for guitarists. Tony Banks was known to use effects to extend the sounds of his organ. |