Guitar Centric Prog Rock?
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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98963
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Topic: Guitar Centric Prog Rock?
Posted By: uvtraveler
Subject: Guitar Centric Prog Rock?
Date Posted: July 16 2014 at 12:36
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Hi All, As one who has played guitar and composed for many years now, I'm always interested in seeing how to create "prog rock" material with little to no keyboards. For about 20 years, I have trying to figure out how to arrange ELP's KarnEvil IX, Imp I, Pt I for guitar/bass/drums (to no avail so far unfortunately). As this forum has a lot of people who seem truly interested in music, I'd like your opinions on what you feel about guitar-centric prog rock. Do we need keyboards, etc. to truly get the aestheticof prog rock? If not, what are the best examples of music in this style. My opinion, of course, is guitar/bass/drums alone can create valid "prog rock"....and of course late 70s Rush is the prime example....but is that all that is popular? |
Replies:
Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: July 16 2014 at 18:14
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Metal based artists such as Tool or Karnivool spring to mind.
King Crimson later era have little to no keyboards but do rely on guitar effects/exotic extended range guitars to create a wider pallette. ------------- "There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about" MJK |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 16 2014 at 19:27
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There are a lot of new bands that perform as a trio who create such a magnificent prog. Prog Metal band http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7690" rel="nofollow - Lazer/Wulf comes in mind.. Two days ago Lazer/Wulf released http://lazerwulf.bandcamp.com/album/the-beast-of-left-and-right-2" rel="nofollow - a new CD titled The Beast of Left and Right. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 08:12
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Quintorigo has no guitar, no keys and no drums. ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 08:59
And today no vocals either, if Wiki is right. But that hardly makes them a guitarcentric band, does it?  ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
octopus-4 wrote:Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 09:26
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But this means that you can make good prog regardless the instruments you use, isn't it? ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: uvtraveler
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 10:05
| Thanks, I hadn't heard of them |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 11:07
This is a Japanese trio called Baraka. Promo video for "The Definition." (Note the comment left by Djam Karet's Gayle Ellett.) ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 11:12
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Cynic: Kindly Bent To Free Us. A little use of keys or guitar synths for atmosphere but this is guitar centric prog at it's cutting edge best. |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 15:49
| Jade Warrior had next to nothing in the way of keyboards, though they did have flute and sax. Edhel - Oriental Christmas had token contributions from synth (and other instruments). It was heavily guitar driven with a Hackett-like sound. Frank Zappa's guitar parts were certainly never unequal to the other instruments. I'll think of others. Genesis was not all as keyboard dominated as people make it out to be (dominating the song writing is not the same as having more parts to play). Normally, it's just hard to keep track of whether Hackett or Banks was playing any given passage. Hackett was able to vary the timbre (and techniques) of the guitar so successfully that it was hard to tell. The range of effects available to guitarists today is staggering. There are few limits. |
Posted By: waluigithewalrus
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 16:17
| Does Primus count, since they kind of skirt the line of being prog vs. non-prog? They definitely make the guitar/bass/drum formula work, with a lot of emphasis on the bass part. Plus, absolutely nutty lyrics! |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 16:49
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Anybody remember Maximum Indifference? Had the pleasure of seeing them live in 2001 (the last time they released an album, I believe). MI was (?) a blistering hi-energy instrumental prog rock trio, influenced (of course) by Rush and other bands. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 17:23
FYI, on a Greg Lake live DVD, guitarist, Florian Epahle, played the lead portion of Karn Evil 9 on guitar, which of course was originally played by Emerson on keyboard. Keyboards, however, were covering other parts. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 19:14
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I've never thought prog as needing any particular instruments to be progressive rock. That versatility in instruments and expression is part of what being prog means to me. The symph sound of course is much more likely to have keyboards than other types of prog, but an Italian band such as Cervello with Melos, which I consider on the symph side, uses other means. In Avant Prog there are many bands that make music regularly without keyboards. I'm no math rock expert (or post rock for that matter), but I think there are many that are guitar-centric without keyboards. The first band that came to my mind is Don Cabellero. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDzSp5MABl4" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDzSp5MABl4 Edited for terrible typos. I'll just add that I'm sure I have heard quote a lot that have a King Crimson sound/ are influenced by KC which don't use extensive keyboards. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am very into: a youtube playlist with two tracks per act |
Posted By: theUnRealMe
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 19:32
| IMO a very good example of prog rock with no keyboards is "The Art Of Navigating By The Stars" by Sieges Even |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 20:53
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David Sancious
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 21:20
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Henry Kaiser Adrian Belew Both creators of pure solo Prog guitar albums. Adrian Belew used guitar synthesizers. Synthesizers, we should be reminded, are not synonymous with keyboards. We have a wide array of guitar synthesizers and waveshapers. |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 23:08
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The Mars Volta (at least up until their most recent) is an obvious example; although they used a variety of instruments including sound manipulation electronics, their style is very guitar-centric. Russian Circles is a good example of a guitarist using loops and effects to fill up the space that the keyboard would usually take in a progressive rock band. Tech/Extreme metal has plenty of guitar-centric material. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: uvtraveler
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 23:51
Really? Do you know the name of the DVD...I have to see that. Thanks HackettFan |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 00:31
| The eighties King Crimson and RUSH(much of the time anyway). |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 01:19
The original track also has lead guitar parts which are very prominent. I'm not sure you are right about this especially as Lake employed 2 keyboard players on that tour including one Dave Arch of Strictly Come Dancing fame. Carl Palmer Band has been playing the entire ELP repertoire for years without any keyboards. Worth checking out.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 01:23
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=14639" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=14639
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 03:34
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7557" rel="nofollow - The DRX is an avant prog act from Brooklyn who released a great album titled http://thedrx.bandcamp.com/album/thesis" rel="nofollow - Thesis in 2011 - without keyboards. personnel: Dean Capper - Electric Cello Ryan Hare - Electric Guitar/Vocals Dan Romans - Drum Set/Vocals Dan Stevens - Electric Bass/Vocals |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 10:58
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How could we forget these guys? One of their best compositions, from III: Tragic Symphony. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 11:25
@uvtraveler: That's it. @richardh: ELP is more your domain than mine, it just conflicts with my memory, and it may just be my memory that's at issue. On the extras CD, I seem to recall a comment from Lake about Epahle having to learn some keyboard parts and translate them to guitar, and I was fairly certain that the part Epahle played on Karn Evil 9 was a case of that. But if I'm wrong, so be it (I'm out of town on vacation for a couple weeks, so I won't checking on it too soon). The DVD should still be worth uvtraveler's perusal in any case. I think I'll follow up on the Carl Palmer band as you suggested myself. Thanks. |
Posted By: lop
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 11:47
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Karnivool has no keyboards, yet they still create complex chords and moods. i like some of the songs on the album 'sound awake'. aside from that a band called Animals as Leaders is amazing. I'm sure some of there songs have no keyboard, and i think some of them have no bass either (tosin plays an 8 string guitar with low notes). Their self titled album is really good guitarcentric prog. haven't heard the rest though
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Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 12:34
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The Aristocrats fit the criteria very well. SQ on their recordings is excellent, play it on a good system and crank it up. http://the-aristocrats-band.com/music/" rel="nofollow - http://the-aristocrats-band.com/music/
http://the-aristocrats-band.com/gear/" rel="nofollow - GUTHRIE GOVAN GUITARS: Charvel USA Guthrie Govan Signature Model, Vigier Surfreter fretless guitar AMP: Victory Amplification V50 The Earl 50w all-tube (EL34) head CABINET: Victory Amplification 2×12 with Celestion V30 speakers EFFECTS: Suhr Koko Boost (for buffering) PICK: Red Bear Big Jazzer Heavy Gauge with Speed Bevel STRINGS: Rotosound Roto Yellows .010-.046 http://the-aristocrats-band.com/media/2014/02/1148810_576495145727595_1530835340_n.jpg" rel="nofollow"> http://the-aristocrats-band.com/media/2014/03/Aristocrats-20121028-KC0_2002__mark-copy.jpg" rel="nofollow"> http://the-aristocrats-band.com/media/2011/07/12280883083_62866e4df8_b.jpg" rel="nofollow"> http://the-aristocrats-band.com/media/2011/07/12280880783_a4f1e3f512_b.jpg" rel="nofollow"> ************ BRYAN BELLER BASSES: Mike Lull Modern 5, Mike Lull Modern 5 Fretless, Mike Lull P/J 5 AMPS: Gallien-Krueger Fusion 550 (main head), Gallien Krueger 2001RB (for extended power) CABS: Gallien-Krueger Neo 4×12′s (2) EFFECTS: Boss FV-50 Volume Pedal STRINGS: D’Addario Pro Steels, .045-.105 with .130 tapered B http://the-aristocrats-band.com/gear/attachment/aaa_3145/" rel="nofollow"> Bryan Beller with Mike Lull Bass and GK Amp Rig http://the-aristocrats-band.com/gear/attachment/bryan-pedalboard/" rel="nofollow"> Bryan’s Pedalboard Here is a link to Bryan’s interview with http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2011/Dec/Rig_Rundown_The_Aristocrats_Bryan_Beller.aspx" rel="nofollow - ************* MARCO MINNEMANN DRUMS & HARDWARE: DW Collector’s Series Maple Drums in Natural Lacquer Custom over Olive Ash Burl Exotic with Chrome Hardware 18×22 Bass Drum 9002 Double Bass Drum Pedal CYMBALS: Zildjian DRUM HEADS: Evans DRUM STICKS: Pro Mark Marco Minnemann Signature Series MICROPHONES: Audix http://the-aristocrats-band.com/gear/attachment/olympus-digital-camera-10/" rel="nofollow"> Photo by Naoju Nakumura http://the-aristocrats-band.com/gear/attachment/marco-minnemanns-drums-by-ivan-chopik/" rel="nofollow"> Marco’s Kit for Show at the BPC in Boston – Sep 29, 2011 http://the-aristocrats-band.com/gear/attachment/dsc_9667/" rel="nofollow"> Marco In Action with DW at Montreal – Oct 3, 2011 |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 12:42
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Hi,
I was thinking that NEKTAR should be listed in this thread? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 18 2014 at 12:46
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http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1327" rel="nofollow - Circus ------------- |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: August 13 2014 at 20:19
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Definitely early Queensr˙che. Degramo and Wilton just fly and take over with Jeff's soaring vocals. It's a beautiful thing. :) ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 14 2014 at 22:31
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I really enjoy the band "Scale the Summit," these kids really burn up the wires! |
Posted By: Wheelspawn
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 20:25
| Queen's early albums didn't have any keyboards. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 10:39
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Dysrhythmia Korekyojinn ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 10:45
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 11:36
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From the late sixties, John du Cann's band Andromeda is a mainly guitar/bass/drums format with vocals. Their self-titled debut album is a brilliant record and very progressive and ahead of it's time. Du Cann's guitar is especially striking throughout. I would also recommend Dzyan's second album Time Machine from 1973. Similar format to Andromeda, but no real vocals, and just as sublime. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 18 2014 at 23:29
I believe the phrase was "No synthesizers"!! Great wisecrack by the way!
 |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: August 18 2014 at 23:50
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