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100 years since The Great War

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Topic: 100 years since The Great War
Posted By: Svetonio
Subject: 100 years since The Great War
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 04:11



















On this day a century ago started the First World War, a month after the assassination in Sarajevowhich killed throne, Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife

Austria-Hungary was the 28th of July  2014, declared war to Serbiaand thus, as it turned out, he started the First World WarA declaration of war was sent to Belgrade in the morningan ordinary telegraph post. The telegramcontained three sentences

The first stated that the Serbian government is not "satisfactorily responded to the letterin Viennasubmitted on 23 July, that the ultimatumThen followed the view that hence the Austro-Hungarian Empire "forced to rely on the forceof arms," and the thirdthe last sentence was: "Austria-Hungary believe that as of this moment is at war with Serbia." 

The next day, Franz Joseph, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungaryreleased a declaration of war "people" of his countryin which he stated that he was forced "to tackle the sword in defense of honor"and that "the imperial-royal government attempted to calm way to resolve the dispute, "but without success, and to someone else's guilty".The goverment officials in Vienna were assassinated in Sarajevo used them as an excuse to go to the showdown with Serbiaconvinced that Serbia would be quickly defeated, and it would be a "small war "that will very soon to be completed successfully

Therefore the text note or ultimatum Baron Giesl delivered the Serbian government on July 23, was worded so that meant it is almost impossible that any sovereign country to accept what it is required. The goalcertainlywas it to be rejectedas evidenced by the fact that Baron Gieslwhen he was on July 25, Nikola Pasić, gave a veryconciliatory response serbian government immediately responded that he was "not satisfactory". 

This was followed by an official letter to the Austrian Minister Serbian Ministry of Foreign Affairs of identical content, and embassy staff and Baron Giesl soon after that night left the territory of the Kingdom of Serbia. As to this act took the severance of diplomatic relations, the government of the Kingdom of Serbia announcedalso in a veryconciliatory tonea manifesto in which he stated: 
"Trusting in the help of Godin his justice and friendship in the great country that we are convinced they want also tokeep the peace, we hope that it will end the conflict peacefullybut as the Austro-Hungarian Minister said tonight on behalf of his government was not satisfied with our response, and finally breaks off diplomatic relations, the government of the Serbian forced tojust in case, just take the most necessary military measures to defend the countryconsidered a duty to invite the people to defend the homeland, believing that our patriotic call each happy tooblige. If we were attacked, the military will do my duty ... "

The following day, on July 26, followed by the mobilizationon the same day it announced the mobilization. Actaully decree on the mobilization of the entire army was issued on July 25 to 22 hours, and for the first day of mobilization was determined after 26 jul. Promptly formed the Supreme Command of the serbian army led by general found Stepa Stepanovićas agent currently absent Duke Radomir Putnik; team immediately moved into the interior of the countryin Kragujevac, as Belgrade was located right on the border line

At the same time came the order is that the court, the government, state government officesthe vaults of the National Bank, State Archives and Press officeoperating inside of country. A decision of the government in Viennato go to war was preceded by the support of Germanysuch as the 7 July at the ministerial meeting Vienna decided to send a note with Serbia would be unacceptable contentwhich is then worked out at a meeting. It was supposed that Berlin and Vienna was that they be able to instantly make the mobilization and concentration of powerbeforethe French, especially the Russians. 

It was intended to be a lightning thrust through Belgium, broke France. The German goverment believed to be repeat scenario of the Franco-Prussian war of 1870/71. when France defeated tremendouslyOnly then they were going to get all the power to direct Russia. A day after the declaration of waron July 29regent Aleksandar Karadjordjević issued a proclamation to the people:
 
"In our Serbia assaulted is a great evilAustrougarska has declared war (...) I am compelled to call all my dear andbrave Serbs under the Serbian flag ..." That on July 29the Russian Tsar Nicholas II issued a partial mobilizationThe next day30 JulyGermany has introduced a general mobilization on 1 August declared war to Russia. Already on August 2, Germany invaded Luxembourg, andon August 3, declared war to France. Because Belgium rejected the German request for transit through its territory, Germany declared war on August 4 and Belgiumthen immediately United Kingdom, due to non-compliance withthe German neutrality of Belgiumon August 4, 1914. declared war to Germany. The Great War beginslater known as the First World War.



Replies:
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 11:08
We only have to thank WWI for making a few minor things possible (or for speeding them up): the Bolshevik revolution, Nazism, Fascism, WWII, the collapse of the British empire, the end of empires in Europe altogether, etc. So this war was really rather uneventful.... 







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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 14:01
It was another stupid war in a succession of stupid wars, there is no honour or glory in warfare, it is pointless and barbaric and above all else, stupid. There is no better word to describe war than stupid, it is a measure of the stupidity of mankind, the stupidity of nations and stupidity of those that govern them. The first world war was a stupid loss of life for stupid reasons. The assassination of Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo was the stupid excuse for the stupid war but it wasn't the cause; the causes were far more stupid and the stupid reasons why it escalated to a world-war were the most stupid of all

We must remember the 18 million dead and morn them but in the same voice denounce all those that started it, all those that escalated it and perpetuated it and all those who would glorify it.


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What?


Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 14:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It was another stupid war in a succession of stupid wars, there is no honour or glory in warfare, it is pointless and barbaric and above all else, stupid. There is no better word to describe war than stupid, it is a measure of the stupidity of mankind, the stupidity of nations and stupidity of those that govern them. The first world war was a stupid loss of life for stupid reasons. The assassination of Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo was the stupid excuse for the stupid war but it wasn't the cause; the causes were far more stupid and the stupid reasons why it escalated to a world-war were the most stupid of all

We must remember the 18 million dead and morn them but in the same voice denounce all those that started it, all those that escalated it and perpetuated it and all those who would glorify it.

My thoughts precisely! I have studied warfare and military matters not because of an aggressive or racist disposition (polar opposite really) but because it dawned on me from a very young age that war seems to have been the only ongoing idiocy since the caveman , has solved NOTHING and yet goes on undeterred, with a lovely industrial-military complex to feed it greedily. The current European borders are hardly different from 1918 and yet millions have died in the meantime. The border between France, Belgium and Germany, all the way to the Swiss border is an unending series of cemeteries that shockingly (you have to see this to believe it) are mostly 18 to 20 year old boys, surely thousands of future Nobel laureates in science, art, literature,music etc... among them. RIP 

Dean, the term stupid was created specifically for the notion of war.  WW1 created the NSDAP and the Hitlerian scourge and I must state for the record that WW2 at least had one virtue in eliminating the most inhumane militaristic mindset in history. It is sad to see that Nazism is still alive in 2014. 


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 14:21
"Wars not make one great." - Yoda

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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?


Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 14:35
Here in Belgium they pay a lot of attention to WW1, while in The Netherlands, where I grew up as a kid, I didn't know a lot about the war.
Quite logical, since Holland was neutral in WW1 and Belgium had all the horrors of WW1.
I was living close to Ypres some years ago and I saw the many, many cemeteries, which were all around, and I saw Ypres which was completely distroyed back in WW1, and I heard, saw and read about the war, and I visited sites in the north of France...

Such a waste of lives, such a horrible destruction of lives and cities...
One of the most horrible wars ever...


Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 14:40
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Here in Belgium they pay a lot of attention to WW1, while in The Netherlands, where I grew up as a kid, I didn't know a lot about the war.
Quite logical, since Holland was neutral in WW1 and Belgium had all the horrors of WW1.
I was living close to Ypres some years ago and I saw the many, many cemeteries, which were all around, and I saw Ypres which was completely distroyed back in WW1, and I heard, saw and read about the war, and I visited sites in the north of France...

Such a waste of lives, such a horrible destruction of lives and cities...
One of the most horrible wars ever...

Indeed! The Dutch really got nailed in WW2 though! 
BTW 2 great prog albums on the subject of the Great War

Xang- The Last of Lasts
Freedom to Glide- Rain


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 14:48
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

"Wars not make one great." - Yoda
wise words from a wise man...
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Indeed! The Dutch really got nailed in WW2 though!
:-[


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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 15:17
WWI started basically without a reasons, without a purpose, without anything. A series of alliances and treaties eventually ended putting nations that had nothing to against other ones in a deadly battle that up until then was the worst in history. Pieces of paper signed by politicians, nationalisms and stupidity were the only real reasons. 

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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 17:11
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Here in Belgium they pay a lot of attention to WW1, while in The Netherlands, where I grew up as a kid, I didn't know a lot about the war.
Quite logical, since Holland was neutral in WW1 and Belgium had all the horrors of WW1.
I was living close to Ypres some years ago and I saw the many, many cemeteries, which were all around, and I saw Ypres which was completely distroyed back in WW1, and I heard, saw and read about the war, and I visited sites in the north of France...

Such a waste of lives, such a horrible destruction of lives and cities...
One of the most horrible wars ever...
Indeed here in Belgium it's a big remembering, being born and raised in neutral Spain I did not get much about it when I was young but now living in Belgium I have understood a bit more about it. Let's hope humanity will not see anything similar again, but humans are animals and animals fight among them even in the same species, usually just for territory, mating couples and children, but on top of that humans have invented new reasong for fighting, religions, races, power, politics, money, moral beliefs...


Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 11:24
"This war, like the next war, is a war to end war."

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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 12:26
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

 
Dean, the term stupid was created specifically for the notion of war.  WW1 created the NSDAP and the Hitlerian scourge and I must state for the record that WW2 at least had one virtue in eliminating the most inhumane militaristic mindset in history. It is sad to see that Nazism is still alive in 2014. 
Sometimes you wonder whether the mindset has been eliminated. WW1 was an 18th century war fought by 19th century soldiers using 20th century weapons, WW2 became a 20th century war fought by 20th century soldiers with 20th century weapons - humans learnt fast and just got better at killing each other. The concept of "canon-fodder" has been replaced with "friendly fire" and "collateral damage" and the mindset remains; WW1 legitimised civilian casualties and WW2 legitimised civilian targets and that has not changed, the ability of a human to show his inhumanity to another human has not changed.


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What?


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 12:28
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

"This war, like the next war, is a war to end war."
Correction specifically applied to WWI: "This war, unlike many wars before or after, is a war to generate a ton of other wars, both larger and smaller". 

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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 12:52
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

 
Dean, the term stupid was created specifically for the notion of war.  WW1 created the NSDAP and the Hitlerian scourge and I must state for the record that WW2 at least had one virtue in eliminating the most inhumane militaristic mindset in history. It is sad to see that Nazism is still alive in 2014. 
Sometimes you wonder whether the mindset has been eliminated. WW1 was an 18th century war fought by 19th century soldiers using 20th century weapons, WW2 became a 20th century war fought by 20th century soldiers with 20th century weapons - humans learnt fast and just got better at killing each other. The concept of "canon-fodder" has been replaced with "friendly fire" and "collateral damage" and the mindset remains; WW1 legitimised civilian casualties and WW2 legitimised civilian targets and that has not changed, the ability of a human to show his inhumanity to another human has not changed.

Again, spot on! Napoleonic wars were extremely brutal (Leipzig and Borodino especially) , pitting hundreds of thousands of bright uniformed troops and cavalry , literally an orgy of killing with cannon, bayonet and musket, cavalry charges and countless dying and unattended wounded. Civilians casualties ? negligible. In fact, the local populace would watch from afar the slaughter and then move in to pillage whatever remained, looting each and every body. 
WW1 also introduced aerial city bombing, artillery barrages aimed at towns, gas attacks, the machine gun, the tank, the airplane and buried trenches (in Verdun, there is a " tranchee des baionnettes" , a buried trench where soldiers died asphyxiated and their bayonets still stick out from the ground. 


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 12:57
Quite literally a turning point in world history

All the horrors and negative things that were associated with it, well sounds quite familiar even now in 2014. 
I reckon physical things and motives change, so much comes and goes...but human nature is immutable 


Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 13:08
The greatest single money-making machine in history, immune to ideology, race, creed, colour, religion and common sense. 

This explains my signature below 


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 13:20
Similar to your quote, I've often said "Cats > humans". In fact, in spite of my allergies to them, I'd much rather have contact with felines than with humans.

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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 14:39
Animals including spiders > humans 




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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 14:51
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Here in Belgium they pay a lot of attention to WW1, while in The Netherlands, where I grew up as a kid, I didn't know a lot about the war.
Quite logical, since Holland was neutral in WW1 and Belgium had all the horrors of WW1.
I was living close to Ypres some years ago and I saw the many, many cemeteries, which were all around, and I saw Ypres which was completely distroyed back in WW1, and I heard, saw and read about the war, and I visited sites in the north of France...

Such a waste of lives, such a horrible destruction of lives and cities...
One of the most horrible wars ever...

Indeed! The Dutch really got nailed in WW2 though! 
BTW 2 great prog albums on the subject of the Great War

Xang- The Last of Lasts
Freedom to Glide- Rain

Yes, I grew up with a lot of WW2 stories, both from books as from my grandfather.
I later heard that both my parents were into the resistance.

There's another prog album on WW1: 1914 by Dutch (!) neo prog band Arkus.
The album is musically not very challenging but it has good melodies.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:00
The History Channel recently had a multi-part documentary titled The World Wars that followed the major players of WWII from their involvement in WWI through their involvement with WWII.  I found it to be quite fascinating.  Items that I learned (which others more knowledgeable may have already been aware of) included that Hitler could have been killed by a British soldier after a battle in France, but the British soldier took mercy and let him go.  And that Hitler's mustache was a result of him not being able to fit his gas mask over his large, bushy mustache while in the trenches of WWI and him almost dying from ingesting mustard gas.  (Not sure if this was factual or Hollywood-ized dramatic effect, but I found it interesting).


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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:44



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Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 30 2014 at 17:28
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

"The more I analyze the human race, the more I love my dog" Mme de Stael

That's unfair. Give a dog the ability to understand how effective your new advanced weapons can purify and clean up a place from invasive ugly postmen, he'll probably rush on them.

Now can cybernetics / natural selection cleanse next generations from the biomecanics of potentially tagging others as unbearable and "must be annihilated" (like when someone pushes the one too many button) ?


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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 30 2014 at 17:53
John McCain would like to get us into more wars.  They don't have to be "Great"...

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: August 01 2014 at 13:11
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

"The more I analyze the human race, the more I love my dog" Mme de Stael

That's unfair. Give a dog the ability to understand how effective your new advanced weapons can purify and clean up a place from invasive ugly postmen, he'll probably rush on them.

Now can cybernetics / natural selection cleanse next generations from the biomecanics of potentially tagging others as unbearable and "must be annihilated" (like when someone pushes the one too many button) ?

That's unclear. What do you mean, precisely? En francais, peut-etre? Wink


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: August 01 2014 at 15:50
Your're right it's really an awkward post ! The french translate reads awkward as well:


First section

"Plus j'analyse la race humaine, plus j'aime mon chien" Mme de Staël 

C'est injuste. Donnez à un chien la capacité de comprendre comment vos [ "vos": pour autant que l'interlocuteur soit citoyen d'une nation puissante qui fabrique des armes h-tech] nouvelles armes sophistiquées peuvent purifier et "nettoyer" un endroit de vilains facteurs [employés de poste] envahissants, il [le chien] va probablement se précipiter sur elles  [lesdites armes] ."

(Donc on résumé on donne une arme à un chien, et s'il sait l'utiliser il dégommera tous les employés de poste qu'il voit !)


So it means: give a dog a weapon, if he can use it he'll fire at every postman he sees.


Second section

"Cela dit: la cybernétique / la sélection naturelle peu(ven)t-elle(s) soulager les prochaines générations [humaines] du bio-mécanisme d'étiqueter d'autres personnes comme "insupportables" ou "doit être annihilée" (comme cela arrive lorsque quelqu'un presse le bouton de trop)"

Peut-on par la science (la cybernétique) débarrasser l'humanité de ses pulsions de mort, ou du sentiment que des gens ou des choses puissent paraître insupportables ? À moins que la sélection naturelle ne s'en charge: les futures mamans et papas seraient incapables de trouver quiconque insupportable et de vouloir l'éliminer; ou de trouver une situation insupportable et de vouloir se suicider.

(Can science eradicate humanity from its deadly impulses, or from the feeling that people or things come across as unbearable ? Or else natural selection would do the job, so that future mums and dads would be unable to consider anybody as unbearable to the extent they want to bump him/her off; or to the extent  they'd be pushed to suicide by anything.)

********************

Thanks for that second chance ! How many tries do I get ?...


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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: August 01 2014 at 16:07
[QUOTE = Jayem]
Your're right it's really an awkward post! The french translate reads awkward as well:


First section

"The more I analyze the human race, the more I love my dog" Madame de Staël 

This is unfair. Give a dog's ability to understand how your  ["your" as long as the person is a citizen of a powerful nation that produces h-tech weapons]  new sophisticated weapons can purify and "cleanse" a naughty place factors [postal workers] pervasive, it [the dog] will probably rush on them  [such weapons] . "

(So ​​we summary is given a weapon to a dog, and he knows how to use it dégommera all employees post it shows!)


So it means: give a dog a weapon, if he can use it he'll fire at every  postman he Sees.


Second section

"That said, cybernetics / natural selection bit (Fri) Does (s) relieve future generations [human] bio-mechanism to label others as "unbearable" or "must be annihilated" (as this happens when someone presses the button too) "

Can the science (cybernetics) rid humanity of his death instincts, or feeling that people or things may seem unbearable? Unless natural selection is supported: the future moms and dads would be unable to find anyone unbearable and want to eliminate it; or find an unbearable situation and wanting to commit suicide.

(Can Eradicate science icts humanity from deadly impulses, or from the feeling That people or things come across as unbearable? Or else natural selection Would do the job, so mums and dads future That Would Be Unable to Consider anybody as unbearable to the extent They want to bump him / her off, or to the extent they'd be pushed to suicide by anything).

********************

Thanks for That second luck! How many tries do I get? ...
[/ QUOTE]

How many official languages in Suisse? Wink


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: August 01 2014 at 16:45
It's not three, it's four: although romansch language has never been used (as far as I know) on swiss supermarket products like the three others, kids are still being taught in romansch in canton of Graubünden.


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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 01 2014 at 16:57
Let's hope we don't see another GREAT WAR in our lifetimes....Ouch


Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: August 01 2014 at 16:57
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

It's not three, it's four: although romanch language has never been used (as far as I know) on swiss supermarket products like the three others, kids are still being taught in romanch in canton of Graubünden.
Yes, I knew that because I was educated in St-Gallen , so I know all about your homeland. Clap
Since I am fluent in the other three, I would love to learn romansch! LOL


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: August 02 2014 at 13:37
Ah..."Romansh". "Romansch"...OK.

I admire your talent for speaking languages, then.

Now I still find your de Stael quote to be unfair. Give a dog a weapon, if he can use it he'll fire at every postman he sees.


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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: August 02 2014 at 13:59
The point is not about a dog's intelligence but his devotion. What I call unconditional love. 

If you tell your wife/girlfriend that you will be home at 6pm and you show up at 3am , drunk like s kunk, you will pay dearly.
If you tell your dog that you will be home at 6pm and you show up at 3am , drunk like a skunk, you will be licked from head to head, happy that you are home. 

Mark Twain also used a variation on Mme de Stael's quote. 


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: August 02 2014 at 14:44
I don't believe love to be separate from emotional/analytical intelligence: "I hear a noise...That smell I built my sense of belonging to a team on...MY MASTER !! The life in Him...The familiar taste of His skin...I won't be alone anymore...SO good !!"

The loving dog would allow himself to lick my face, covering it with his saliva. It can be felt as uncomfortable, but he won't care. Also the dog didn't understand that, as a drunk man, I may end up in jail and he'd be left alone for long, by my fault. Give him the intelligence to understand that, and I'm not sure he'll rejoice the same.

Also let's consider female dog's mating availability: an average of two mating periods a year isn't much is it.

I find de Stael / likers unfair, because I suspect they've been partial in analyzing both dogs and the human race.



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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: August 02 2014 at 14:48
I am not a MMe de Stael liker, I just feel that its a quote (which can be debated ad infinitum) that can be used when the human condition raises its head. 
How about Einstein's quote "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" ? 



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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: August 02 2014 at 15:00
Of course I won't like Einstein's quote better, because it'd tend to get me down.

Not that I'm particularly proud to be a human, for sure !!


Thanks for your answers and time...


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