Progressive Metal vs Progressive Rock
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99536
Printed Date: April 28 2024 at 23:48
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Topic: Progressive Metal vs Progressive Rock
Posted By: Rihanna
Subject: Progressive Metal vs Progressive Rock
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 12:15
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Which genre do you enjoy the best? For me Progressive Metal, i like band like Opeth, Dream Theater and Tool alot, they create awesome music, i still like Progressive rock mostly Porcupine Tree, Blue Oyster Cult, Supertramp and Pink Floyd alot, but for Progressive Metal are better and better aggression! |
Replies:
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 12:19
   ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: Rihanna
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 12:23
| i like to compare alot. Thats why. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 12:39
Definitely this. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
PrognosticMind wrote:Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 12:45
Please, be my guest:  fill yer boots. ------------- What? |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 13:14
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I have an apple and orange every day - and I like them both, same with progressive metal and symphonic prog - both appeal to me but at different times of the month....But my prog menstrual cycle is chaotic...and I don't bleed either !!! ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 13:59
I thought Prog Metal was also Prog Rock. And I don't see lack of agression in ELP's The Barbarian or KC's 20th Century Schizoid Man. Anyway, I enjoy Metal but usually I enjoy other sub-genres more.
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Posted By: PJ20
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:34
Yes, Lets talk bout both, compare, argue and get offended. :) |
Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:36
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Progressive house ------------- "Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl." |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:41
| I'm going with Progressive Metal for the 2st century as that's where I feel the next wave of real progression will spring from. I'm very impressed with U.S. extreme metal rocker's Cynic right now who I've had a chance to meet personally and I feel that they along with some other prog metal groups are looking forward to breaking conventions instead of staying within them. Progressive Rock has had it's glorious day. Long live the king is all I can say. |
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:44
Cynic is phenomenal. Saw 'em in Boston. ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:56
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Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:58
Agreed. What's your favorite Cynic album? Mine might still be Focus, even though everything they've done is beyond incredible. ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 09:04
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Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 09:19
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^Well said! I've got a nostalgic bias for the year 1993 and all those amazing Roadrunner Records records that came out, lol. Even then, Focus was ahead of its time. Cynic and Pestilence inspired me to get my Roland GR55 guitar synthesizer  .------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 09:21
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Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 09:26
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Progressive rock any day of the week. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 09:29
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Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 10:16
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^Metal is often denser than rock afterall. No vote in this poll. ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: musitron
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 12:29
Is dream theater metal?  ------------- “One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.” Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 12:33
| Only recently have I begun to appreciate metal and prog metal. My preference still is for regular prog rock though. |
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 12:48
^Win. ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: Claypool90s
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 18:41
| I always considered Tool to be progressive art rock more than prog metal |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 05 2014 at 06:08
| djent |
Posted By: Phaolrym
Date Posted: September 05 2014 at 11:12
| I've spent more time with listening to prog metal, yet I love them both. (And recently I can say that I tend to listen prog rock more often.) |
Posted By: Aragon
Date Posted: September 05 2014 at 14:22
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Progrock for sure....i hate progmetal and all the DT clones!
------------- http://postimage.org/" rel="nofollow">  http://postimage.org/" rel="nofollow - picture hosting |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 02:29
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I`ll be a little so so as I`ve been into DT, Tool but not many others as I`m not a fan of the metal prog like most of you all... but its not that I`m in to the metal side of prog. so I`m saying I`m a fan of both styles... so no vote... ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 09:10
| "....It's all Rock n Roll to me" |
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 09:29
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I love progressive metal, but I don't particularly care for Dream Theater. I've always fancied the likes of Symphony X. ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 10:03
| It's progressive rock. Prog metal isn't subtle enough for my tastes. People tell me to initiate a listening with Queensryche (misspelled, I'm sure), and I have a feeling I'll have to dabble in that direction soon enough because I've played all the old stuff to death. It's nice to know that 'ryche is a domestic band, though. Saw its lead singer on an episode of That Metal Show and he came off intelligent, assured, and focused, so I'll be checking them out soon enough. |
Posted By: Green Shield Stamp
Date Posted: September 18 2014 at 15:39
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I often think that progressive metal is an oxymoron. It is metal with lots of twiddly, noodly bits. So, prog rock for me is vastly superior. ------------- Haiku Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic.... |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 18 2014 at 16:10
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Prog was described exactly like that in the 70s. ------------- What? |
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: September 18 2014 at 16:52
This is kind of what I was just thinking. Metal is technically a progression from rock itself, but I feel that's a whole separate argument. ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: addictedtoprog
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 13:24
U feel so cause u love ProgMetal more.. And i too feel quite similar.  
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: September 20 2014 at 04:25
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As someone who's into both metal and prog-rock, I find a lot of better
known prog metal's fusion of the two to come across as rather kitschy
perhaps by being very literal in the way it combines the two. I suspect the reason is that most prominent progressive metal groups combine styles from after progressive rock and heavy metal had diverged even further than they did in the 1970s. Even back then, I gather there was something of a culture clash between the two: The progressive rock movement tended to emphasize the interplaying instrumental dynamics and usually had detailed philosophical or ideological worldviews underlying either the individual record or entire career project's conceptual ethos; the early hard rock/heavy metal groups on the other hand tended towards emphasis on the instrumental prowess of individual musicians in the band, and they also make a point out of moral or ideological ambiguity in their artistic ethos. This means that the tropes from the disparate styles stick out more, when there isn't developed a newer fluid musical grammar in order to provide a coherent synthesis between the two. That's my best guess as to why groups like Dream Theater and Opeth don't do that much for me, their songs' narrative structures don't strike me as quite as logically consistent as if they had stuck to either genre's rules as either an ideal to live up to or main target to subvert. My favourite prog metal groups are usually just more ambitious and complex than usual for their respective subgenre (e. g. early Fates Warning), or they come at both metal and prog from a sort of "sideways perspective". (e. g. Virus, Voivod) ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: September 20 2014 at 09:29
A very thorough, graspable analysis Toaster Mantis. Also, Fates Warning (particularly Awaken The Guardian) and Voivod rules. ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: Friday13th
Date Posted: September 20 2014 at 12:01
| Yeah, I started with progressive metal, but the more I listen the more I like the rock stuff. Even the best prog metal bands don't have fluid range of emotions and textures that make prog rock amazing. I actually prefer straight-up heavy metal like Judas Priest to most prog metal. Of course I love the heavy sound, so "heavy" prog like King Crimson and Rush usually do the trick for me. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 00:40
Ditto, except I had started with prog rock. It's indeed the textures that make the difference to me. The constant heavy textures in prog metal gets a bit oppressive after some time whereas the contrast in prog rock provides a breather. And also that since prog metal artists, at least of the DT era, tend to be heavily influenced by the 80s, they channel 80s pop or hair metal in their soft/ballad singing which I don't like. I too like straight up metal more because I listen to it purely for crushing riffs. In prog metal it gets difficult to focus on the riffs with all the changes.
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 06:08
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Had completely forgotten about the role of contrasting or building up
layers of texture in progressive rock songwriting, and how that's
something many progressive metal groups neglect. I wonder if that has to
do with that stylistic divergence between prog/psych-rock and HR/HM in
the mid-1970s that I mentioned earlier, probably one that had been
building on account of the difference in artistic ethos between the two
scenes. An amusing coincidence is that recently, it's become more commonplace for the more introverted metal subgenres like the psychedelic end of doom metal (e. g. Electric Wizard) or the types of black metal (e. g. Drudkh) that emphasize atmosphere over riffing to go over in the opposite pitfall: Id est songwriting that focuses entirely on development of texture at the expense of a clear sense of narrative structure in the composition. In the case of Electric Wizard it's clear they're a stylistically metal band who are closer to 1960s/1970s psychedelia in both ideological outlook as well as visual aesthetic, but what's the excuse of the Eastern European ultranationalists in Drudkh? A misappropriation of Varg Vikernes' interest in Krautrock? ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 06:27
| I think the trend in doom metal owes more to the development of ambient music than anything to do with prog rock. Ambient music also focuses heavily on texture at the expense of narrative or, basically, momentum. Prog rock at its best in the 70s could attain a sweet spot that balanced both momentum and textural variety and depth. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 06:48
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I think that's more the case on the black metal side of things, the atmosphere-over-riffing style being strongly informed by ambient electronic music with mid-era Burzum as the missing link. Maybe also Darkthrone's Transilvanian Hunger, which goes in a similar direction and not surprisingly Vikernes receives a songwriting credit for several of the tracks. Regarding Electric Wizard and similar groups, not only does their image and visual aesthetic come across as more "hippie" than "biker" but their songwriting style is as much "Hawkwind in slow motion with bigger amplifiers" as derived from Black Sabbath. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 07:00
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I never noticed Hawkwind in Electric Wizard but yes, you are right, there's a lot of psychedelic in their music and a lot of the stoner side of doom metal as such. But being doom metal, they feel compelled to play slow all the time. Metal has this unique predicament of boxing itself in with all kinds of compulsions. Which works in straight up metal and not so much otherwise, leaving aside the out and out experimental side of metal like Cynic.
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 09:16
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A while ago I came across a lengthy review on RateYourMusic of a
prog metal record that the reviewer in question was not just dissatisfied with, but also used as an example for a
review-as-thesisto explain why so many artists get that angle of combining the
two styles wrong. A shame I can't find it right now.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 10:58
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Progressive rock for me......there are only a handful of prog metal things I can listen to and one of them -Rush- isn't even listed here as prog metal. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 11:11
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Rush have been admitted unto the Metal-Archives, though, and that site is infamous for being extremely uptight about including groups in ambiguous genres.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 11:49
| IIRC it was clarified (either in the FAQ or by one of their mods in a heated exchange on inclusion-related grievances) that Rush were so classified because of their tremendous influence on prog metal and even some straight up metal bands. Iron Maiden do exhibit some influence of Rush, for instance and they are themselves one of the most influential metal bands. But it was understood that they weren't tr00 metal, strictly speaking. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 21 2014 at 11:52
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Interestingly, it is categorically explained in the FAQ of metal archives that they would not include bands who are already commonly classified in a different genre (i.e. non-metal). So it is acknowledged, as an example, that KC had elements of metal but since they are already referred to as prog rock, it would be counterproductive to include them on a metal website. In other words, they saw progressive metal as a metal sub genre rather than a prog rock sub genre. One of their mods had even commented to me that he didn't understand how PA would deal with including prog metal in their database.
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Posted By: addictedtoprog
Date Posted: September 22 2014 at 14:38
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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: September 22 2014 at 14:43
Alrighty then. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: September 22 2014 at 14:45
This has been the Macneil Lehrer Report. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: September 22 2014 at 15:30
When I think of progressive rock I don’t really think of Blue Oyster Cult, Supertramp or Pink Floyd. More like:
Yes Genesis Gentle Giant King Crimson ELP PFM Van der Graaf Generator National Health
Although I do enjoy progressive metal my preferences are: Progressive rock Fusion Jazz Zuel / Avant prog Progressive Metal |