Heaven and Earth damage control / spin has begun
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99546
Printed Date: July 26 2025 at 09:47
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Topic: Heaven and Earth damage control / spin has begun
Posted By: tarkus1980
Subject: Heaven and Earth damage control / spin has begun
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 21:22
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http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/09/02/it-was-all-fair-in-love-and-war-inside-yes-decision-to-complete-heaven-and-earth-without-roy-thomas-baker/
You know how pretty much every album by any group above a certain age goes through a cycle where the band initially touts it as something their fans will enjoy but is referred to in dismissive terms by the time a subsequent album from the band comes out? Well, Yes has started the process by throwing Roy Thomas Baker under the bus. ------------- "History of Rock Written by the Losers." |
Replies:
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 22:00
No scandal there at all! 
Simply says Roy didn't quite mix the band the way Yes usually sound. No need for `damage control' either, the album is nowhere near the dog some people are making it out to be. It may be soft and tame, but that's to be expected from a band their age. Anyone expecting the band to be producing genre-defining classics like `Topo' and `Close to the Edge' at this point in their career....after, you know, actually establishing some of the the hallmark porgressive rock styles, is fooling themselves! Besides, at least it wasn't a covers album! |
Posted By: tarkus1980
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 22:19
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This is the first pebble in the avalanche. In two years Howe will be pretending this album never happened. ------------- "History of Rock Written by the Losers." |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 22:40
I hope I will in 2 years ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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tarkus1980 wrote:Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: September 02 2014 at 22:45
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What avalanche?!
Some people seem to be going on about the album like it's some almighty clusterf**k that will bring not only Yes, but the prog genre itself to a crashing grinding collapse! It's just a matter of putting it into perspective. The band is mostly comprised of a bunch of (more or less) 70 year old men, who are simply not going to have the drive or the imagination to offer much different that what the album ended up like. Bands like Van der Graaf Generator, Eloy, Nektar - all of them are oldies prog acts who've put out lousy albums in recent years. `Heaven and Earth' reflects their age, it's mellow, sedate and winding down. If you like a whole ton of the different Yes eras, there's enough on there to enjoy for what it is. It's had just as divisive a reaction from groups of fans that pretty much all their albums from `90125' onwards has provoked. Usually each new album comes predictions this wil be their final death knell as well! Howe shouldn't complain...what's he got to fall back on, more Asia albums no-one wants?! 
By the way, I'm not a president of a Yes fan club that fawns all over everything they do lol, just a casual fan who can appreciate the album for what it is. Melodic, well played and an easy undemanding background listen! 
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 01:24
| This album can be approached from 2 sides : a) - comparing it to the amazing creativity of the fertile 70's stylings, or, b) taking it in the here and now and enjoying the 'refined and mature' focus of composing. Heaven And Earth is not a bad album at all, it's just not that great, either. Are the band members thinking with their hearts, or their heads ??? |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 16:38
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Reading that article it seems they took someone on who they knew didn't get involved with the composition side of things to mix their album, and then got annoyed because he was only involved with the mixing and wasn't producing a very specific sound that is the hallmark of somebody else. Makes me wonder why they bothered in the first place!
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 22:42
| Well, it seems to me that their changing of producer and bringing Sherwood in to finish the job didn't help at all. It doesn't sound Yes at all, and now that I read those things, at leas a bit of what sounds wrong with this album may be the mixing itself. Most of the songs are rather weak anyway, but I sort of like the first and last ones at least, however they still sound sound kind of tired... and particularly on the last one, which starts really nice, just as soon as the vocals kick in the song is dragged down quiet a bit... and I understand that Sherwoods main work on the album were the vocals themselves (and from the different albums I've heard in which Sherwood is involved, it's the vocal melodies that usually put me off the most). I wonder if this two songs are the ones being played live, and if they will sound better that way. On the other hand, what I've disliked from this album isn't because I'm expecting a new CttE, since I did rather enjoy Fly from Here (though mainly because of the songs inculded on the so called "epic" or "suite", plus the last song). I guess that if they had somehow managed to stay with Trevor Horn as producer the album might have turned out better. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 00:01
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I don't mind the instrumentals as much as the lyrics. Very insipid.
Pity, as I like Jon Davison very much and was hoping he would succeed in this band. As far as Roy Thomas Baker goes, he didn't do any favors for my chums in Starcastle either! I don't know why he is hailed as such a damn genius. It's sad to see a band age and wind down, isn't it? I wish they had done so with grace and dignity. Meanwhile, I rather enjoy what I'm hearing from the Anderson Ponty project, that might be very interesting! They have some hot musicians on board. |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 00:56
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It's strange, the only band that Roy Thomas Baker has been a fit with was Queen, where the results turned out very well on that run of early to mid seventies albums! But was a looooooooooong time ago now!
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 04:22
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RTB is 'winding down' too.....
Just listened to H&E again, and it's getting better as the material is sinking in, but they may as well have re-named the band Crystal Wrench or something....... |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 05:31
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 00:19
| Best song on the album is far and away Subway Walls, but even this track is only paying 'lip service' to their better selves. Light Of The Ages is also decent. |
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 07:45
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i don't find the album to be that bad, and something tells me the sessions back in the late 70's were the reason this time. oh, so unfamiliar (i read the article btw lol). ------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 18:33
| I'm thinking that the members of Yes don't give a hoot about what Proggers want, they have enough of a loyal fan-base to keep the ball rolling. They are just composing songs they believe in, and that's that. There's enough classic Yes influenced bands doing amazing things out there (Magenta come to mind) that it doesn't really matter to them anymore. |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 19:09
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You make an interestng point, Tom, and I'll go you one further...
We all know Pink Floyd have a MASSIVE fanbase, the majority of which (I think) have no idea what the F `Prog Rock' is. They're just a big band known for `arty' rock music. Now, I think there's probably more Yes fans that know what prog is, but I'm wondering...Are more Yes fans supporters from the 80's pop/commercial period, so that's why albums like `Heaven and Earth' - and `The Ladder', `Open Your Eyes', etc - are mostly based around commercial/straightforward compositions as opposed to more proper progressive workouts? I actually assumed that there's much more vintage 70's fans these days that their 80's fans, hence the reason so little material (except `Owner...', of course) from the 80's is performed live anymore... 
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 19:13
Lordy lordy... ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 19:15
Ah crap, and of course, I've most likely cast that thought out into the universe and jinxed us all! Covers album coming in 2015!
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 23:03
| I don't dislike the idea of covers albums so much. Plus, back in the early days, the covers Yes made were really great, making the songs their own. However, I somehow doubt they have the energy to transform a song that way anymore. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 23:10
Yeah, Subway Walls may just as well be (almost) the saving grace of this album (though I actually kind of enjoy the first song too), but it falls just short of being a great song. However, I think that's a bit more a matter of interpretation more than writing... and even more, perhaps even the sound engineering might have something to do. The song strarts just great, but as soon as the vocals kick in it is dragged quiet a bit. The vocals sound as if Davison didn't care at all, almost as if he were falling asleep while singing, and the backing vocals don't help at all. Then there's a keyboard solo that might just as well have moved things a bit more, but it's also played as if Downes was just bored. At the end the song gets a bit better again, but it frustrates me that it could have been so much better. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 23:17
Yeah, I would too think that right now there are more fans of Yes music from the 70's than the 80's, and I would assume that they know it, since that's the music they play the most live. I would guess that the music thay have made is more because of what they are feeling and what they are capable of doing anymore. They must have a rather critical shortage of ideas, since they had to make use of some 80's leftovers for their last album, and they were rather happy about getting a new singer who could actually write music (suposedly). |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 23:43
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I frankly do not really care. I rarely listen to the classic Yes period because I know it by heart. Fly From Here was interesting and at times even great (the suite) but I gave up on Yes after Talk! So whatever they do is of little consequence. The real sad part is that Alan White's recent Yes drumming sucks , while he kicks total ass on Levin/White/Torn (go figure)! Sorry, they are milking the cow dry for quite a long time now. Nice cover though ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: September 07 2014 at 11:37
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I haven't heard their new album yet, but when I bought Fly from Here a few years back, I didn't put on Close to the Edge before I give it a listen to compare the two. I just put it on to see how it sounded. It started great, and then the new vocalist completely took me by surprise. I didn't even bother to find out that someone else would be singing on it. At first I didn't particularly like him. I came back a year or two later and tried it again, and enjoyed it much more. Anyway, I'll give go check out Heaven and Earth once the finances allow for it. ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 08 2014 at 01:05
Lone Star's debut album was very good to be fair Anyway I agree with most of what you say on Yes. Its a good album if expectations are kept in check.. What concerns me more is the damage to Glass Hammer since Davison became only a part time member as Ode To Echo is their weakest album for a long time. Yes are a spent force as regards 'prog rock' but GH still have something to offer.
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: September 08 2014 at 01:15
Haven't heard the Lone Star album, thanks Richard! Glass Hammer's `Ode'...I have been spinning this every day for the past couple of weeks....yes, it's well played, well sung, well performed...yet there's something so safe, predictable and really quite unthrilling about it. I can't quite put my finger on what is wrong with it yet...I don't think it helps that they're putting out an album every single year....I guess they're just taking advantage to their raised profile due to Yes....speaking of which.... Glass Hammer disappointed me recently on their Facebook page. They are no doubt a little bitter about the reduced role Davison gets to have with them now, but they posted a rather cheap remark in regards to `Heaven and Earth'. When the first few negative reviews started showing up for it, they posted a link to them on their FB page with an `Ouch!' comment...I thought they were a little gutless, and it was a real cheap shot. If it were not for Davison and his now association with Yes, a ton of Yes fans would never have looked into Glass Hammer, and their profile in prog circles would still be at the exact point it was at years ago.... 
By the way, Richard, your `Three Cheers for the Broken Hearted' review really helped me write mine, so thanks!
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: September 13 2014 at 04:10
Sure they all can play, but maybe these guys don't wish to re-visit their youthful selves ?? I dunno, I am truly enjoying this album, I do believe Davison invigorated the band (I love Glass Hammer). But if these guys produced something the calibre of Close To The Edge, many critics would slam them of repeating themselves and trying to re-capture the glory days ??? Poor guys can't win........ |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 13 2014 at 09:26
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: September 13 2014 at 11:46
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That The Cars will soon be added to the site in crossover prog? ------------- 
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