Led Zep - Prog Side - Complilation
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99556
Printed Date: April 29 2024 at 06:14
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Led Zep - Prog Side - Complilation
Posted By: musitron
Subject: Led Zep - Prog Side - Complilation
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 14:14
 Of course that disk doesn't exist. But you can make you own compilation of crossover prog or prog related songs from Led Zep.For fun, here is my list. Show me your list. Dazed And Confused The Rain Song No Quater In the Light Kasmir Stairway to Heaven I'm Gonna Crawl Second disk (maybe) Thank You That's the Way Hats Off to Roy Harper The Battle of Evermore Four Sticks ------------- “One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.” Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun |
Replies:
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 14:31
I don't get it M, But I love Zep so my picks are sides 1 and 2 of LZ2. 
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 14:32
Are you giving PA a mixed CD (tape)? Does this mean we're going steady
 ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 14:34
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JD wrote:Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 14:35
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It means he's too chicken to ask us out.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 14:37
| ^or too cheep! |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 14:37
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^No Achilles Last Stand? That's surprising coming from a progger wanting to make a proggy Zep-comp. ------------- 
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 14:38
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Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 15:34
There's probably a few more from Houses Of The Holy you could put on. "Over The Hills And Far Away" is quite sophisticated, "Dancing Days" has some awesome chord progressions, "The Ocean" has like a 15/8 verse or something, and maybe even "The Crunge" for being so offbeat. That's pretty much the whole album though 
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 15:35
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 16:04
Yeah, my very first reaction. |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 16:12
Don't forget "the song remains the same" which has about a two minute instrumental introduction. There are also some proggy things on Physical Graffiti like "in the light." The initial list also didn't include "Carosalambra" which is arguably LZ's most prog sounding track ever. |
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 17:10
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The Battle of Evermore and possibly Fool in the Rain and/or All My Love can go here too. ------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 17:28
Groaner  ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 17:32
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I've whittled my entire Zep collection down to 3 comp. CD's. Having a double one isn't really that tough. Now, if you want to do a comp thread let's put a little more pressure on. One CD no longer than 60 min., any prog artist. Let the games begin. I'll post my first one once I do a running time check. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 17:39
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Running time = 59:46 Genesis - Then (Gabes) Return of the Giant Hogweed Harold the Barrel Watcher of the Skies Supper's Ready The Knife Firth of Fifth ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: musitron
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 18:09
Holy moly! I said 'for fun'  I run a Internet Radio Station and sometime I like to add some good songs by non-prog bands. That's why.
------------- “One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.” Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun |
Posted By: GentleJonny
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 01:50
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 03:30
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Seeing as Led Zeppelin never were a prog band (residing in prog related), I took the liberty of moving this to the non-prog part of the forum. Carry on gents. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 04:08
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Zep is Zep, 99,9/100 prog bands would kiss their lotus feets, to be half as good as Zep, so why attempt to “progify” them. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 04:20
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I agree. It's just a little strange that people keep insisting on posting these threads in the prog lounge. If you take a look at the first page of the prog lounge, you'll see just how many threads we've had to move (the ones with a green arrow), because people just use it regardless of the topic. My guess is that it's because the prog lounge threads also feature on the frontpage, and perhaps moreover because people don't give a feck. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 04:26
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I just think it because they dont think much about where to but it right. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: musitron
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 05:30
'How does Led Zeppelin fit into a progressive site as Progarchives is an ongoing debate, with many in favor, but also some objections. Basically Led Zeppelin wasn't a progressive rock band, but they used progressive textures and progressive elements in their music, but above all they influenced many progressive bands over the years, from YES, to JETHRO TULL, from RUSH to SPOCK'S BEARD, without Led Zeppelin rock and progressive music wouldn't be the same' It is not from me but from PA  ------------- “One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.” Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 05:39
They were very progressive for their day, I totally agree, but they were more of a progressive blues rock band than an actual prog band. That's also why we have them located in prog related (and why I moved the thread ). Led Zeppelin were no more a prog band than say The Doors, The Beatles, Queen or David Bowie - acts who all are featured on PA, but in prog related because of their occasional flirts with our much beloved genre, and perhaps more importantly how some of them influenced prog rock and on some occasions even helped it being pushed forth. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 09:46
I've been meaning to make a thread about this for a while. Game on! ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 10:41
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I like my Zep raw and bluesy (Zep I and II), or the Jimmy Page does Joni Mitchell/Sandy Denny act (Zep III). When Zep got proggy, that's when they're least credible....they always pushed the Dungeons and Dragons shyte and the Tolkienesque, but I never bought it. Seemed an easy way to reel in the teenage zomboids. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 10:48
Ya sure, but what im saying is that to me it makes no sence to look for the progg'ish tracks. Most Zep tracks is just great, no matter if they have some prog elements or none at all. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 11:03
It does on a prog rock site!
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 13:46
| Zep great? Yes. Prog? No. Can't understand why people don't appreciate them for what they are. |
Posted By: musitron
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 14:14
Huh! Can't understand why you think that I don't appreciate what they are? Did you take the time to read my posts? This is your sixth comment in that topic. If you don't like it just pass bud One day before my post someone started a topic titled http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99517" rel="nofollow - The most proggy songs by The Who? Nobody gave him sh*t. Well! I hope you won't now. ------------- “One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.” Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 15:15
Led Zeppelin was as proggy as Pink Floyd. Or The Who. Or Jethro Tull. Or Queen. They played whatever the hell they liked whenever the hell they wanted to because they sold a sufficient enough amount of albums during their heydays to be able to dictate to the record companies -- Zeppelin even formed Swan Song to get more freedom...and cash. Some Zep albums have prog elements just like some Tull albums have very little prog elements, yet people get their panties in a wad about artificial record industry categorization and try to pigeon hole bands when it's likely the bands themselves cared little for such restraints at the time. If you look at an album like Physical Graffiti, I don't see how anyone would assume it was not progressive. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 22:23
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 22:26
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: musitron
Date Posted: September 04 2014 at 23:17
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yes dr. And I like your favorite 'proggy' Who track..... Baba...  ------------- “One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.” Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: September 05 2014 at 11:07
No it still does not TO ME ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 05 2014 at 22:23
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: SquonkHunter
Date Posted: September 05 2014 at 22:49
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As an old Led Zeppelin fan, I saw them as a multi-talented and multi-faceted band. They could wail out electric blues, play straight ahead rock and roll, get all folksy and "pastoral" or do proggy fantasy with the best of them. Each of these sides appealed to me in a "different styles for different moods" kind of a way. In short, they were four very talented musicians that could successfully turn their hand to many styles/genres whenever they wished. I will admit that I favored the more proggy pieces myself though. ------------- "You never had the things you thought you should have had and you'll not get them now..." |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 09:52
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 10:20
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"Steve G : Time to stop bending groups that Prog members appreciate into pseudo Prog groups. The fact that Zep would have laughed at the comparison back in the day should say it all. Did they have prog elements, sure, so did the Beach Boys with Good Vibrations. "
I don't disagree with that and many of the bands that are listed under 'prog related' here have never really sounded proggy at all to me compared to actual progressive rock groups, but then I suppose that's why they are listed under 'prog related'.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 10:22
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Posted By: musitron
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 10:37
True. I'm a huge fan of Zep. I did a compilation of their Blues cuts as well. Another one about their Folky songs and finnally about their most commercial tunes. Like you I favored the more proggy pieces.  ------------- “One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.” Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 10:45
| ^The folk singer Phil Ochs made a 10 minute suite like song in the 60's called Crucifixion about the murder of JFK. Should that song be considered proggy? And should the artist be considered Prog related? |
Posted By: musitron
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 12:56
???? I don't know. But as long as that kind of comment make you feel better, it's ok with me. ------------- “One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.” Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 13:17
| ^It does not. I was only trying to show you what giving some s&*^ to a topic from me would really sound like. I don't things that seriously was the point. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 06 2014 at 13:32
I don't know because I haven't heard it; however, Roy Harper's Stormcock is an album of lengthy acoustic songs that I certainly would consider prog. What's your point? ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 07 2014 at 09:29
And to me a lot of his work, I'm a big fan, is definitely proggy
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 07 2014 at 09:49
I'm quite aware of Harper's status on PA, thanks, but that was not my point. Steve referred to a 10 minute-long Phil Ochs song rather snidely. I was m merely pointing an album of 10 minute-long songs that was indeed proggy. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 07 2014 at 10:21
and for my 2 cents Harper is far more proggy than the Beach Boys.
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 07 2014 at 10:26
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Ironically, the very proggy Stormcock has Jimmy Page playing his best Zeppelinesque prog on it. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: peril912
Date Posted: September 08 2014 at 17:00
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I would've chosen maybe Ten Years Gone for that list, too, but al of those are great though. |
Posted By: musitron
Date Posted: September 08 2014 at 17:02
Yes, Ten Years Gone and a couple of other. ------------- “One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.” Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 18 2014 at 14:14
But do you seriously view Stromcock as a Prog album because it has four long acoustic songs? I do not. They are simply four long folk songs that contain a few different movements. I go to other Harper albums to get Prog. Definitely not Stromcock or it's immediate predecessors or followers. HQ was the first true Prog album by Harper and that's the truth And that was said without any snide intention like the Phil Ochs question. Song length does not equal progressive just repetition. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 18 2014 at 23:08
In regards to song length, I was parroting your snark regarding the Ochs song. And yes, Stormcock is certainly progressive folk. The song structures, orchestration, and even the vocals were highly progressive, and a step beyond folk rock of that era. Tull's A Passion Play is obviously indebted to Stormcock regarding Ian Anderson's acoustic work. The chording on the Chateau D'Isaster sessions strongly evoke Harper. In addition, Jimmy Page is referred to with a Latin pseudonym. You can't get more prog than that. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 10:06
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^Sorry Greg, but as much as I like Harper, it would take a month of Sundays and a bribe for me to consider Stormcock prog. Your argument just doesn't do it for me and I've heard countless others over the years also. And countless others also agreeing with me. No snark, but the psued S. Flavious Mercurious used for Page is a contractual trick that goes back decades. Now how progressive is that? ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: aaroncliftmusic
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 11:49
Third that. I also would have included "When the Levee Breaks." It's such an epic closing song even if it's not strictly speaking a "progressive" song.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 13:07
I will have to politely call you nuts, and then defer to a critic who referred to Stormcock as "epic progressive acoustic", which to me perfectly defines the album. I don't know how one can listen to a song like "Me and My Woman" and not hear progressive folk. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 14:20
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^These are only different opinions Greg which every one has and I respect yours, so I will not politely call you deaf. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 22:22
Some opinions carry more weight and are part of a general consensus of informed listeners, critics and musicians; whereas other opinions are lonely outliers, forlorn and whimpering in the wild. Prog Archives recognizes Stormcock as prog folk, as does Rate Your Music and even wacky Wikipedia. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: September 20 2014 at 03:43
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This debate revolves around individual person's definition of prog. Clearly our debaters have different definitions. It doesn't help debate when people redefine their opponent's definitions. As for me, I see 1973-onwards Zep as being prog-tinged. As they did with everything, they hoovered up the prog 'sound' (and I know it's questionable what exactly that is, which is why I have used a generalisation) and stuck it in their stew. So you get No Quarter, Kashmir, In The Light and Achilles Last Stand, which incorporate elements not unfamiliar to prog ears. That, to me, makes a great argument for incorporating them on the site as prog-related - which is where they are. I've put together a LZ compilation based on personal taste. I favour later LZ precisely because of the prog tinge - I'm not a big fan of their early sloppy blues. Side 1 Nobody's Fault But Mine When The Levee Breaks In My Time Of Dying Side 2 Stairway To Heaven The Wanton Song The Ocean Kashmir
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 20 2014 at 09:38
What PA deems as Prog is of no consequence to me. PA are experts on Progressive Rock music, not American Folk music of which Stormcock is based on. I know an extended folk song when I hear it regardless of it's climatic coda, no matter how well it is played or who is playing it. Who is really the uninformed listener in this conversation? ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 20 2014 at 13:16
Not wishing to demean your internet credentials, but if you'd like to discuss Alan Lomax or the Library of Congress recordings, I am sure we can discuss those elsewhere. However, to say Stormcock is based on American folk is a misnomer. It owes much more to Bert Jansch, Ralph McTell and Harper's affiliation with Floyd and Zeppelin. British, not American folk. It's rather like saying Liege and Lief is due to Bob Dylan because Fairport's first album or two was influenced by him. No sir, Harper at that point was influenced by British folk and prog rock. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 20 2014 at 14:32
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^And where did Davy Jones, Jansch, McTell, John Renbourn et al, aside from Moroccan style tunings, get their influences from? Let it go now, Greg. This could go on until we reveal who actually invented the drum. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 20 2014 at 14:49
Surprisingly enough, Moroccan tuning came from Morocco, and was brought over from Africa by Brit Davey Graham, who was inspired by the tuning of an oud player. That's what inspired Jansch, Richard Thompson and even Page. What that has to do with American folk escapes me. You as well, obviously. But that really has nothing to do with direct influence on Stormcock, which I maintain has far more Brit folk and prog influence. Again, not saying Leadbelly and Guthrie were not early Harper influences, but his direct influences had radically changed by 1971. P.S. Steve, again, it's rather like saying Liege & Lief was influenced by Bob Dylan because Fairport was indebted to Dylan on their first two albums. But the influence for the album lies elsewhere. Harper himself said that he wanted to take contemporary folk to places it had never been. If you look where and who he was with in the period prior to Stormcock, his manager also managed Pentangle, he was discussing co-writing a rock opera with Pink Floyd, etc. His mind certainly wasn't on composing an American folk album as you assert. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 22 2014 at 09:22
I left my last question to you as leading. You supplied the exposition that I do not have to, but I will expand on it a bit. The 11 stringed Moroccan oud (al-oud) does not have true corresponding tuning notes to those of an acoustic guitar (perfect fourths and fifths vs. equal temperment), so Graham used alternate tunings that fit more closely with an oud so he could jam with Moroccan players when he lived there at the time. Obviously DADGAD worked the best but he also used others. I not sure why I refered to him as Jones in my last post, probably due to aggravation, but all things pass. Any how, Graham's style included diverse souces such as American folk and blues records, Celtic music, the live music of American blues and folk artists such as Big Bill Broonzy, Gary Davis and Guthrie clone and disciple Rambling Jack Elliot, all who regularly toured the U.K. in the early sixties. On Graham's breakthrough EP titled 3/4 AD, the title track was a thinly disguised version of Miles Davis' song "All Blues". After Jansch and Renbourn figured out Graham's alternate open tunings, Both made solo albums in 1965 that were based on the standard American folk and blues forms either in original form or in their own compositions. Their exploration of incorporating jazz into the folk and blues stew would come in their joint 1966 album titled Bert And John, with their duel guitar renditon of Charles Mingus' Pork Pie Hat, as well their own syncopated fusion style improvosations like Tic-Tockative. Pentangle and history would soon follow when they would combine all these elements with traditional British folk songs. No small feat as Trad. British folk was sung acapella. As for Roy Harper, his connection with all of this was actually playing at the same London folk venues such as the famous Les Cousins club in Soho. Aside from picking up alternate tunings, Double Dropped D and Open C were his favorites, Harper, not surprisingly, was not interested in following Jansch and Renbourn's path and went the Topical Protest Song based route. An American form of folk music that was popularised by Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, The Alamanac Singers and his contempories like Dylan, Phil Ochs and Tom Paxton. Subsequently, Harper also employed other folk music forms like ballads and others that were that were a part of the American folk song canon. The easiest example of this is Harper's take on the "I'm leaving but don't you grieve" American style folk song on his 1970 album Flat, Baroque and Beserk. The lead off song (Judas) Don't you Grieve was a parody of the 1940 Woody Guthrie folk song Sally Don't You Grieve. Musically different but lyrically similar in it's intention. Simply, Harper, unlike his British contemporaries like the ones stated above, along with Michael Chapman who took Arabic scales raga to its end conclusion on the album Rain Maker, was simply not treading the path of other 60's artists of the British Folk Scene. Stormcock may be the natural end conclusion of Harper's American folk style of music with its elaborate long suite like songs but that to me is an evolutionary growth, not a progression. If you feel that it is, as I've said many posts ago, is fine with me. I simply don't agree. BTW, studying something that you love on and off for 20 plus years does not give one a credential or a free bus ride. It gives one the ablity to construct an informed opinion and the right to express it. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |