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Sex=/=Prog: Yes? No? Good? Bad? Why?

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Topic: Sex=/=Prog: Yes? No? Good? Bad? Why?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Sex=/=Prog: Yes? No? Good? Bad? Why?
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 11:31
WWNT? What would Nietzsche think? That's a hard question as philosophers write one thing and many other people over many years try to decipher what they actually meant.

But the 19th century philosopher that hyperbolic-ally stated that "God is dead" was also adverse to the asceticism of Christianity, and had he lived long enough to experience rock 'n roll would probably have found rock 'n roll a dumb ed down version of a purer black American art from and would probably have applauded The Stones for their overt sexuality and would have been put off by Prog's nonsexual lyrical stance; a type of unwritten rule that centers on all topics except the celebration of the sexual.

Is Progressive Rock music actually nonsexual compared to other forms of rock music. if so, why do you think this unwritten rule exists? And does it matter to you if prog is nonsexual or not?





Replies:
Posted By: Friday13th
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 11:53
You lose me here, SteveG. If Nietzsche would dislike prog, that's one more reason to love it. Considering sex constitutes for 99% of popular music, it is a breath of fresh air that prog generally avoids the topic. 


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 12:07
Nietzsche would reject any kind of popular movement having once written that popular opinion is always wrong.  Always.  He would also reject any and all overtures of popularity in Prog as he rejected the popularity of German unification.  At one point in time, Nietzsche lauded the music of Wagner for its sophistication and elevating qualities, but then came to despise Wagner himself - for accommodating popular opinion.  And let's face it - this is a commercial form of music, just one that sells in relatively low numbers.  I doubt that any one of our beloved artists would bewail any significant gain in popularity.  Remember that many of the classic artists went populist.  I do not think he would really care that much about an individual's opinion but he would challenge whether that person was being truly individual or not.  And this is the too-often missed aspect of his philosophy.  Mastery is not master over others, it is mastery of oneself. 
 
As to the second issue, Prog is not overtly sexual, but themes of love and romance exist.  There are those of us who are neither attracted nor titillated by the booty shaking nature of current pop music and find Prog and other genres far more stimulating in that manner (as well as intellectually).  I find the music of Vangelis far more sexy than that of Beyoncé.  So, no, Prog is not nonsexual, but it approaches the subject in a sophisticated and intelligent manner, nor is that its only subject.


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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 12:41
^I agree with your view regarding Nietszche and philosophy being one's individual take or Nietszche's constantly changing views, but in order not to turn this into a philosophical debate, I had to dumb down that aspect.

As for prog music being romantic and sensual, that was not the question. Being overtly sexual was the question and there is a distinsct difference beween the two. Pining for a lost love and "I've got to have you! Now!" are quite different. Yes or no?

And as for modern Prog being popular, I'll leave that to your own judgement.


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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 12:46
How can you say prog's not sexy?



(with apologies to Mr Howe)


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 12:51
^LOLLOLLOL

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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 13:05

There is nothing sexy about prog...does not matter how you package up depressing, dark, sci-fi, fantasy, dungeons and dragons, Lord of the Rings, melancholic music and lyrics...

Babies are not made to this music........

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 13:07
^Now that's not philosophy, that's the sad truth! LOL

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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 13:08
Frank Zappa


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 13:13
Progressive rock is rock music (and much else, but that is a topic for another thread) and like rock music in general, there is sometimes a sexual aspect to the beat of the music.
                        And lyrically, too, there is sometimes a sexual aspect.
                  for instance,

                                 "Don't you think
                                   I still long coming down
                                   Making love to you

                                   When we ride on tomorrow
                                   I know I'll find someone new
                                   So look what you do"

                                   Triumvirat-"Lucky Girl"

                 Sexuality is an important part of being human, so it's bound to crop up.


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 13:23
I like prog.

My wife says I am sexy.

Therefore, prog is sexy.

That is about the most serious response I can provide for one of the silliest things I have ever seen.

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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 13:26
I imagine prog sex would be extremely long, kind of confusing, and in a room decorated with rainbows, purple clouds and random elephants. And the climax would sound like Jon Anderson. 

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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 13:38
There are few of sexy album jackets, though.


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:00
^ Roxy Music Wink

How about someone move this thread to "Just for Fun" Tongue


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:01
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I like prog.

My wife says I am sexy.

Therefore, prog is sexy.

That is about the most serious response I can provide for one of the silliest things I have ever seen.
Ask a silly question and you get a silly answer. Amazing!
 
In case you haven't noticed Laz, my questions, with humorous overtones, regard Prog's obvious disassociations from main stream rock and the possible reasons why. That you feel this is not worthy of your interest is not important to me.


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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:03
I guess it depends what kind of "prog" we're talking about.

I've had sex to all these tracks, and none of the girls I entertained got their panties in a twist (That happened before, but that was entirely my doing).





Music is about as sexy as the people performing it though. If the musician is using up all of his/her brainpower on playing a fugue, then it'll probably be quite difficult shaking dat ass at the same time. 

As for Nietszche? I've always enjoyed his beard, his Thus Spoke Zarathustra and his joy joy way of re leaving God of any power, and I think he'd be sporting a giant erection if he were to attend an Amon Düül ll concert. Call it a hunch. 


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- Douglas Adams


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:03
My first time "doing it" was to Thick as a Brick, so that's something.


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It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

-Kehlog Albran


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:04
LOL

Thick as a Brick: The luv soundtrack


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- Douglas Adams


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:05
Thick, indeed. Haw Haw.


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It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

-Kehlog Albran


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:06
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ Roxy Music Wink

How about someone move this thread to "Just for Fun" Tongue


DoneBig smile


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:09
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

My first time "doing it" was to Thick as a Brick, so that's something.
My God! That's a loooong song, dude!

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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:09
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ Roxy Music Wink

(...)
 
Yes I know, but http://katalog.kupindoslike.com/Sta-Bi-Dao-Da-Si-Na-Mom-Mjestu_slikaKatalog_L_8234.jpg" rel="nofollow - Bijelo Dugme are the champions..


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:10
Roxy Music. Dance or prog? or both?

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Posted By: bloodnarfer
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:11
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

My first time "doing it" was to Thick as a Brick, so that's something.
My God! That's a loooong song, dude!
Did he have to take it to side 2??


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https://open.spotify.com/user/1211221845" rel="nofollow - https://open.spotify.com/user/1211221845


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:12
Originally posted by bloodnarfer bloodnarfer wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

My first time "doing it" was to Thick as a Brick, so that's something.
My God! That's a loooong song, dude!
Did he have to take it to side 2??
LOL

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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:15
Knowing Steve-o, he probably played that sucker twice!

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:24
Really don't mind if you sit this one out...


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My other avatar is a Porsche

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

-Kehlog Albran


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:31
Tongue

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:31
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ Roxy Music Wink

(...)
 
Yes I know, but http://katalog.kupindoslike.com/Sta-Bi-Dao-Da-Si-Na-Mom-Mjestu_slikaKatalog_L_8234.jpg" rel="nofollow - Bijelo Dugme are the champions..

Didn't know them, but they deserve the prize Tongue

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Roxy Music. Dance or prog? or both?

None. Dance and Prog are Roxy Music LOL


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:37
Kidding aside, this is an interesting thread question that's digs deeper than it first may appear.  I'll just need time to think up a serious answer.


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My other avatar is a Porsche

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

-Kehlog Albran


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:44
"Hub-boy."
   
        -Fred Flintstone


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 14:47
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Kidding aside, this is an interesting thread question that's digs deeper than it first may appear.  I'll just need time to think up a serious answer.
No problem Steve. Take your time with this sticky subject. Tongue

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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 15:03
Yes please! You can send your proposals through PM.


Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 15:16
Univers Zero made a song about a guy who raped a lot of girls so i guess there's something to say for that.

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 15:37
^Shocked

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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 15:38
Originally posted by twseel twseel wrote:

Univers Zero made a song about a guy who raped a lot of girls so i guess there's something to say for that.
I've heard that all girls secretly wish to be raped.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 15:42
^ShockedShocked

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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 15:47
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by twseel twseel wrote:

Univers Zero made a song about a guy who raped a lot of girls so i guess there's something to say for that.
I've heard that all girls secretly wish to be raped.
by Daniel Denis

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Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 15:52




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https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 15:56
^Dead

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Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:00
You never said the sexual appeal had to be "good"

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https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:08
^True. True.

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Posted By: hridis
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:11
Originally posted by Luna Luna wrote:





dat split balls ...

no girl could ever tell us again that prog isn't sexy


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:14
^I think we're going to have to get Kati's opinion on this one.

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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:26
Originally posted by Luna Luna wrote:




don't post this without warning pls, now i have to change my pants


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:28
^ LOL


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:32
^LOLLOLLOL I forgot about A Person. My apologies my dear.

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Posted By: hridis
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:42

Red hair, blue shirt and a nice soft touch on a beautifull keyboards ... if we can add one or two cats we surely can invide and conquer the internet of sexiness


Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:44
I'll give you wine and food too, and something special after if you like...

EDIT: Also from the same album!

The horses were ready, sensing trouble ahead
But the trouble didn't start until the men were in bed!


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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 16:46
^And then there were three!  The Lady Lies?

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Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 17:15
Yup! The second one is Ballad of Big. Although that one is obvious joking about, the band had some other sexual themes about. The Musical Box springs to mind.

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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 17:15
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 18:11
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Frank Zappa

Colony of Slippermen - the slipperman costume itself - and really all of the lamb.
Gong - Prostitute Poem
What I'm saying is I don't think that there is any un-written rule as suggested in the OP. I do think that efforts to be more creative led to more open territory for lyrics. I agree with someone else that, if you're playing a fugue, you don't gyrate your butt a whole lot. But, then again, Hawkwind didn't need to. They had their very own naked dancing groupie.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 19:24
^I concide Frank Zappa to you HF. (Rats!)  "Gona stick it up your..."


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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 19:25
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmm
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 19:33
"...I'll be harder than yer husband to get along with
Harder than yer husband every night
I'll be harder than yer husband
Harder than yer husband
An' I don't want our love affair
To end with a fight..."


Frank Zappa, Harder Than Your Husband from You Are What You Is (1981)






Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 19:36
^I concide Frank Zappa to you, Svetonio. (Rats!)  "Gona stick it up your..."


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 19:41
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ Roxy Music Wink

(...)
 
Yes I know, but http://katalog.kupindoslike.com/Sta-Bi-Dao-Da-Si-Na-Mom-Mjestu_slikaKatalog_L_8234.jpg" rel="nofollow - Bijelo Dugme are the champions..

Didn't know them, but they deserve the prize Tongue

Of course, and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/50/Smak_Dab_in_the_Middle_cover.jpeg" rel="nofollow - this is for a silver medal.


Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: October 14 2014 at 21:15
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


"...Prog's obvious disassociations from main stream rock and the possible reasons why"
 
Could you describe them?
  
For me prog couldn't stand anymore his 'boyfriend' (the main stream rock) always doing the same thing.Wink
  
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Babies are not made to this music........



This strangely reminded me of what engineers often said: "architects are not made to structured calculation."



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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 01:03
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^I concide Frank Zappa to you, Svetonio. (Rats!)  "Gona stick it up your..."

Oh, thanks, Steve.. What about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qd77uYU64g" rel="nofollow - Wet T-Shirt Nite ?


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 03:27
Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:

Nietzsche would reject any kind of popular movement having once written that popular opinion is always wrong.  

...

Wrong as in popular opinion itself is wrong or wrong as in when someone makes an opinion simply because popular opinion says so?

Back on topic, about a year ago, I tried playing Sabotage by Black Sabbath to my father, and while he didn't make it all the way (not because of the music, he just likes to talk a lot and wasn't paying attention, which I don't mind), he made a quip on how Tony Iommi's now famous guitar tone has an almost sexual feeling to it, having a very masculine sound.


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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 06:20
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I like prog.

My wife says I am sexy.

Therefore, prog is sexy.

That is about the most serious response I can provide for one of the silliest things I have ever seen.

Ask a silly question and you get a silly answer. Amazing!
 
In case you haven't noticed Laz, my questions, with humorous overtones, regard Prog's obvious disassociations from main stream rock and the possible reasons why. That you feel this is not worthy of your interest is not important to me.




Fine. Then kindly put these "humorous" overtones where they belong, in Just For Fun, instead of a prog lounge so that, as a certifiable grumpy git (I have a LOT on), I can safely ignore them.

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Posted By: TheRollingOrange
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 06:47
If you go to Tumblr you'll find that many of the prog fans there finds some sexy elements in this music genre...

But in all seriousness, I find prog lyrics refreshing compared to the lyrics of other kinds of music. I like how it's about different things.


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 08:20
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I like prog.

My wife says I am sexy.

Therefore, prog is sexy.

That is about the most serious response I can provide for one of the silliest things I have ever seen.

Ask a silly question and you get a silly answer. Amazing!
 
In case you haven't noticed Laz, my questions, with humorous overtones, regard Prog's obvious disassociations from main stream rock and the possible reasons why. That you feel this is not worthy of your interest is not important to me.




Fine. Then kindly put these "humorous" overtones where they belong, in Just For Fun, instead of a prog lounge so that, as a certifiable grumpy git (I have a LOT on), I can safely ignore them.
Does Humour Belong in Prog Lounge? Wasn't that the name of a Zappa album?


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 09:10
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Frank Zappa

Colony of Slippermen - the slipperman costume itself - and really all of the lamb.
Gong - Prostitute Poem
What I'm saying is I don't think that there is any un-written rule as suggested in the OP. I do think that efforts to be more creative led to more open territory for lyrics. I agree with someone else that, if you're playing a fugue, you don't gyrate your butt a whole lot. But, then again, Hawkwind didn't need to. They had their very own naked dancing groupie.

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^I concide Frank Zappa to you HF. (Rats!)  "Gona stick it up your..."

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Is Progressive Rock music actually nonsexual compared to other forms of rock music. if so, why do you think this unwritten rule exists? And does it matter to you if prog is nonsexual or not?

I agree that Prog is relatively less sexual than other forms of rock. But I don't think there's any unwritten rule that causes it. I think if there is a good idea that it fits into, then I don't expect that there's any unwritten rule that it needs to buck. But a problem exists incorporating sex into good non-stereotypical lyrical ideas (e.g. The Gong Trilogy, The Lamb), and we all know the little pecker's normally not terribly multi-dimensional. Zappa's off the standard line of descendancy in Prog, and he simply defied any unwritten rule he could find. Even in Zappa's case, however, the sexual references were couched within satire. The purpose was different from elsewhere in other forms of rock.


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 09:16
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Frank Zappa

Colony of Slippermen - the slipperman costume itself - and really all of the lamb.
Gong - Prostitute Poem
What I'm saying is I don't think that there is any un-written rule as suggested in the OP. I do think that efforts to be more creative led to more open territory for lyrics. I agree with someone else that, if you're playing a fugue, you don't gyrate your butt a whole lot. But, then again, Hawkwind didn't need to. They had their very own naked dancing groupie.

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^I concide Frank Zappa to you HF. (Rats!)  "Gona stick it up your..."

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Is Progressive Rock music actually nonsexual compared to other forms of rock music. if so, why do you think this unwritten rule exists? And does it matter to you if prog is nonsexual or not?

I agree that Prog is relatively less sexual than other forms of rock. But I don't think there's any unwritten rule that causes it. I think if there is a good idea that it fits into, then I don't expect that there's any unwritten rule that it needs to buck. But a problem exists incorporating sex into good non-stereotypical lyrical ideas. Something elaborate or clever is needed (e.g. The Gong Trilogy, The Lamb), and we all know the little pecker's normally not terribly multi-dimensional. Zappa's off the standard line of descendancy in Prog, and he simply defied any unwritten rule he could find. Even in Zappa's case, however, the sexual references were couched within satire. The purpose was different from elsewhere in other forms of rock.


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 09:23
Sorry, It seems I added a post when I thought I was just editing, and I'm not able to delete. I'll correct this when I'm able.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 10:26
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I like prog.

My wife says I am sexy.

Therefore, prog is sexy.

That is about the most serious response I can provide for one of the silliest things I have ever seen.

Ask a silly question and you get a silly answer. Amazing!
 
In case you haven't noticed Laz, my questions, with humorous overtones, regard Prog's obvious disassociations from main stream rock and the possible reasons why. That you feel this is not worthy of your interest is not important to me.




Fine. Then kindly put these "humorous" overtones where they belong, in Just For Fun, instead of a prog lounge so that, as a certifiable grumpy git (I have a LOT on), I can safely ignore them.
Agreed, old chap. Will do so in the future. Big smile But I think a  lot of Zappa albums will have to shuttled off  there in the future as well, and I don't think many Zappa fans will take kindly to that.


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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 10:32
Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


"...Prog's obvious disassociations from main stream rock and the possible reasons why"
 
Could you describe them?
 ...

The funny thing about the word obvious is that no one should have to point them out to you. Did a prog group ever concoct a song called "Let's spend the night together"?


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 11:54
Joking aside, that non-sexuality of the vast majority of lyrics in prog songs is not exclusively reserved for the prog rock bands only. There are a bunch of great non prog bands and solo artists who have not a distinct sexuality in their lyrics, nor in their image in general.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 14:42
^True Sventonio. I was listening to early Fairport last night and that was far from a sex fest but by the time I came to Leige and Lief, the trad. song Matty Groves was all sex and intrigue. Same for many trad. British songs covered by Pentangle. The Victorians really seemed to put the sex brakes on in England in the 1800's, whan a lot of these bawdy trad. songs were almost forgotten.

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 14:54
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Frank Zappa

Colony of Slippermen - the slipperman costume itself - and really all of the lamb.
Gong - Prostitute Poem
What I'm saying is I don't think that there is any un-written rule as suggested in the OP. I do think that efforts to be more creative led to more open territory for lyrics. I agree with someone else that, if you're playing a fugue, you don't gyrate your butt a whole lot. But, then again, Hawkwind didn't need to. They had their very own naked dancing groupie.

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^I concide Frank Zappa to you HF. (Rats!)  "Gona stick it up your..."

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Is Progressive Rock music actually nonsexual compared to other forms of rock music. if so, why do you think this unwritten rule exists? And does it matter to you if prog is nonsexual or not?

I agree that Prog is relatively less sexual than other forms of rock. But I don't think there's any unwritten rule that causes it. I think if there is a good idea that it fits into, then I don't expect that there's any unwritten rule that it needs to buck. But a problem exists incorporating sex into good non-stereotypical lyrical ideas. Something elaborate or clever is needed (e.g. The Gong Trilogy, The Lamb), and we all know the little pecker's normally not terribly multi-dimensional. Zappa's off the standard line of descendancy in Prog, and he simply defied any unwritten rule he could find. Even in Zappa's case, however, the sexual references were couched within satire. The purpose was different from elsewhere in other forms of rock.
True HF. I had to think about Zappa'a satirical take on sex when I posted my answer, but satirical or not, sex is overtly in the lyrics. Try saying that with another Prog artist or group and I think you will hard pressed. (pardon the pun).  Hawkwind, to the best of my knowledge was too busy with inner and outer space travel to focus on sex, so I think they left that up to the concert show girls to break up the monotony. I saw Hawkwind live in the late seventies and I'm still not sure what I heard or saw, for that matter. But then I again, I don't think I really care.

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Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 17:46
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


"...Prog's obvious disassociations from main stream rock and the possible reasons why"
 
Could you describe them?
 ...

The funny thing about the word obvious is that no one should have to point them out to you. Did a prog group ever concoct a song called "Let's spend the night together"?
 
yeah obviously not, but I thought the possible reasons for Prog's obvious disassociations could result in another thread, even though this subject must have already been exhaustly discussed. Anyway those were just wonderings of mine, no more worth further discussion in my point of view.


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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 15 2014 at 18:35
^Sorry RR. I didn't mean to come off sounding so condescending, just truthful.

Except for F13, noting very early in the post, the respite from oversexed hard rock and heavy metal that prog offers,  no one's offered a sound answer to the posted question. A lot of fun posts though, which was the intent.


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Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: October 16 2014 at 02:07
First off, someone is letting their Firefox dictionary define how they spell and separate words in the posts they make. And then sometimes they're not paying attention at all to that silly, squiggly red line.

Second, why try to conjure unintended meaning and purpose at all, regardless of the genre? I mean, beyond what the manufacturer intended.

Third, Pain of Salvation and Steve Vai and Marvin Gaye explore sexuality in-depth.


Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: October 16 2014 at 02:08
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Joking aside, that non-sexuality of the vast majority of lyrics in prog songs is not exclusively reserved for the prog rock bands only. There are a bunch of great non prog bands and solo artists who have not a distinct sexuality in their lyrics, nor in their image in general.

Also, this x bunches.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 16 2014 at 02:42
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^True Sventonio. I was listening to early Fairport last night and that was far from a sex fest but by the time I came to Leige and Lief, the trad. song Matty Groves was all sex and intrigue. Same for many trad. British songs covered by Pentangle. The Victorians really seemed to put the sex brakes on in England in the 1800's, whan a lot of these bawdy trad. songs were almost forgotten.
Whether due to the Victorian heritage or not, it is obvious that the white artists' music contains much less of sexuality than the music of black artists.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: October 16 2014 at 10:33
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


"...Prog's obvious disassociations from main stream rock and the possible reasons why"
 
Could you describe them?
 ...

The funny thing about the word obvious is that no one should have to point them out to you. Did a prog group ever concoct a song called "Let's spend the night together"?

Did the Stones ever want to "ram it up your poop chute"?


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 16 2014 at 10:56
Originally posted by *frinspar* *frinspar* wrote:

First off, someone is letting their Firefox dictionary define how they spell and separate words in the posts they make. And then sometimes they're not paying attention at all to that silly, squiggly red line.

Second, why try to conjure unintended meaning and purpose at all, regardless of the genre? I mean, beyond what the manufacturer intended.

Third, Pain of Salvation and Steve Vai and Marvin Gaye explore sexuality in-depth.
Why should being mute conjure unintended meaning?

That there is litttle overtly sexual lyrics in Prog is self evident.

The reason for such a question may help to establish why modern Prog is still no more than a cult phenomenon.

I think that's reason enough for the posted question.

Let me know if you have any others.Wink


Posted By: bloodnarfer
Date Posted: October 16 2014 at 11:07
The Musical Box is alarmingly pretty damn sexual. Kid gets his head knocked off and comes back as an old man... first thing he wants to do is molest a little girl??

Daniel Gildenlow has an entire album devoted to having a sexual encounter at age 10

Also, Comus.

Seems like when prog explores sex it tends to be in a dark and disturbing kind of way rather than a boink some shawtys kind of way


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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 16 2014 at 15:42
Originally posted by bloodnarfer bloodnarfer wrote:

The Musical Box is alarmingly pretty damn sexual. Kid gets his head knocked off and comes back as an old man... first thing he wants to do is molest a little girl??

Daniel Gildenlow has an entire album devoted to having a sexual encounter at age 10

Also, Comus.

Seems like when prog explores sex it tends to be in a dark and disturbing kind of way rather than a boink some shawtys kind of way
Agreed, but as my signature states: Even a broken watch is right twice a day. That doesn't turn the whole situation around.


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Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: October 20 2014 at 20:08

Overt sexuality in lyrics or not, any music can be suitable for “getting it on.”

 

Now, having made that great insight…

 

I’m surprised no one brought up Locomotive Breath.

 

And let’s not forget the Strawbs, with their

 

I feel her nipples at my fingertips... (Fingertips)

 

and

 

I sucked on your breasts, your legs opened wide
I could scarcely believe all the pleasures inside
But now I know how it feels to be old
Out in the cold. (Out in the Cold)

 

And how about Barclay James Harvest:

 

You rip up my heart you just tear it apart

As I shoot all my love into you…

Lovin’ is easy with both eyes closed

Just get a hold and watch how it grows. (Loving Is Easy)



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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 09:35
Frankly....I don't really care if there is any overt sexual content in prog rock or in pop rock either for that matter, though it probably is ubiquitous in pop since sex sells to the masses and it's easy to write lyrics about bangin' yer main squeeze.
 
 
ed for spelling


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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:03
Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

Overt sexuality in lyrics or not, any music can be suitable for “getting it on.”

 

Now, having made that great insight…

 

I’m surprised no one brought up Locomotive Breath.

 

And let’s not forget the Strawbs, with their

 

I feel her nipples at my fingertips... (Fingertips)

 

and

 

I sucked on your breasts, your legs opened wide
I could scarcely believe all the pleasures inside
But now I know how it feels to be old
Out in the cold. (Out in the Cold)

 

And how about Barclay James Harvest:

 

You rip up my heart you just tear it apart

As I shoot all my love into you…

Lovin’ is easy with both eyes closed

Just get a hold and watch how it grows. (Loving Is Easy)

Yes, I know of these two songs but as I stated in another a post, they are rarities and not the general lyrical trend that's fond in Prog.


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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:08
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Frankly....I don't really care if there is any overt sexual content in prog rock or in pop rock either for that matter, though it probably is ubiquitous in pop since sex sells to the masses and it's easy to right lyrics about bangin' yer main squeeze.
To be truthful Doc, at my age and level of maturity, overtly sexual content is not important to me either. The post was only a way to view one of the obvious differences in Prog vs other rock and pop forms and frankly, I thought more members would have approved due to the sexual over kill found in the other music forms.


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Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:11
You don't find a lot of sex in prog because proggers follow that famous piece of writing advice and write about what they know.

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:17
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

You don't find a lot of sex in prog because proggers follow that famous piece of writing advice and write about what they know.
 LOL

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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 12:46
"Jumbo" by Curved Air, "Think Of Me With Kindness" by Gentle Giant, and "I'm Hoping Love Will Last" by Steve Hackett touch upon the romantic side to relationships...(I believe?)...I believe "Jumbo" could be about missing someone in particular and wanting to arrive home and exit the plane to see them..although John Lennon once said something about everyone adapting a song  to their own experience if they like and that it was perfectly okay to do that. 

Sex in relation to Rock music has been taken to the extreme over decades anyway and for me it's a burden to explain to people in the audience that it isn't always that way. Many original Blues masters from the Mississippi delta and Chicago had been deprived of sex through the tragic environment of slavery. It may also have been out of desperation that they wrote such lyrics because of the times they were living in where upon sex was bad and disrespectful just as Ray Davies quote in "Victoria" that sex was bad and making reference to life in the pretense in England or complaining about the current lifestyle and rules of the British in THOSE times. Also take into account that a white man would not be judged for rape , but a black man would.All these tragic experiences seemed to be evident in the Blues. The stories of sex and the unfairness of it in the South or the desperation to have sex and a world of their own which no man ruled over.   Blues and Rock n' Roll ruled over these trials when it became appealing to a white audience. You wouldn't be discussing who you had sex with to a slave owner from the South unless you wanted to be abused or punished. Maybe not in all cases, but it certainly seemed that way to me. I assume if you protested against the rape of your girlfriend/backstreet girl/wife by a slave owner you would be executed and I've discovered Blues lyrics relating to that. Some of the sexy lyrics in Blues contain references to voodoo/mojo, witchcraft, and a desperate cry to be with a woman.  Words like "honey bee" and so on...were sexual. 

In the past...Prog has covered the areas of Gnosticism where it was not thought of as kindly measures to be feeling proud of an imperfect world and an imperfect body or flesh garment. Prog has also spoken of Satan in a ritualistic way. It has often made reference to having sex with demons or even Satan himself. Prog touches upon the subject of sexual intercourse through a religious or supernatural experience. Blues touch upon the same ideals , but was more "down to earth" with riddles and sexual references in the style of street talk. 

 


Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 13:43
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

You don't find a lot of sex in prog because proggers follow that famous piece of writing advice and write about what they know.
I'm proud to know more about shining flying purple wolfhounds than sex.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 15:16
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

"Jumbo" by Curved Air, "Think Of Me With Kindness" by Gentle Giant, and "I'm Hoping Love Will Last" by Steve Hackett touch upon the romantic side to relationships...(I believe?)...I believe "Jumbo" could be about missing someone in particular and wanting to arrive home and exit the plane to see them..although John Lennon once said something about everyone adapting a song  to their own experience if they like and that it was perfectly okay to do that. 

Sex in relation to Rock music has been taken to the extreme over decades anyway and for me it's a burden to explain to people in the audience that it isn't always that way. Many original Blues masters from the Mississippi delta and Chicago had been deprived of sex through the tragic environment of slavery. It may also have been out of desperation that they wrote such lyrics because of the times they were living in where upon sex was bad and disrespectful just as Ray Davies quote in "Victoria" that sex was bad and making reference to life in the pretense in England or complaining about the current lifestyle and rules of the British in THOSE times. Also take into account that a white man would not be judged for rape , but a black man would.All these tragic experiences seemed to be evident in the Blues. The stories of sex and the unfairness of it in the South or the desperation to have sex and a world of their own which no man ruled over.   Blues and Rock n' Roll ruled over these trials when it became appealing to a white audience. You wouldn't be discussing who you had sex with to a slave owner from the South unless you wanted to be abused or punished. Maybe not in all cases, but it certainly seemed that way to me. I assume if you protested against the rape of your girlfriend/backstreet girl/wife by a slave owner you would be executed and I've discovered Blues lyrics relating to that. Some of the sexy lyrics in Blues contain references to voodoo/mojo, witchcraft, and a desperate cry to be with a woman.  Words like "honey bee" and so on...were sexual. 

In the past...Prog has covered the areas of Gnosticism where it was not thought of as kindly measures to be feeling proud of an imperfect world and an imperfect body or flesh garment. Prog has also spoken of Satan in a ritualistic way. It has often made reference to having sex with demons or even Satan himself. Prog touches upon the subject of sexual intercourse through a religious or supernatural experience. Blues touch upon the same ideals , but was more "down to earth" with riddles and sexual references in the style of street talk. 

 
I no expert on American slavery Todd, but I find it hard to imagine that sex for black slaves was discouraged as that would have produced free salves that than could be sold to other slave owners for what I'm sure would have made them some big bucks.

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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 15:58
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

You don't find a lot of sex in prog because proggers follow that famous piece of writing advice and write about what they know.
I'm proud to know more about shining flying purple wolfhounds than sex.


The dates with the ladies must be... interesting. Wacko


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: October 23 2014 at 03:24
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

I imagine prog sex would be extremely long, kind of confusing, and in a room decorated with rainbows, purple clouds and random elephants. And the climax would sound like Jon Anderson. 


Pros And Cons of Hitchiking perhaps... the closest I can think (for the time being about) sex and prog rock. (no, more than just the album cover!)

How about when that pic gets censored. I do find the pop music world very prudish at times. Ironic, amusing and yet, stupid.

Oh I know, Lamb Lies Down for one of the most bizarre sex comedies, not forgetting Gabriel's notes on Live.... Or Phil's dirty ;) commentaries in concert, replacing the more surreal ones of Gabriel. Non PC days but still equality based...

When broached, the subject is still more cerebrally based so no one should feel things are getting ... prog related.... lofty distance from the earthy can still be maintained. Phew, close call.


Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 23 2014 at 07:36
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

"Jumbo" by Curved Air, "Think Of Me With Kindness" by Gentle Giant, and "I'm Hoping Love Will Last" by Steve Hackett touch upon the romantic side to relationships...(I believe?)...I believe "Jumbo" could be about missing someone in particular and wanting to arrive home and exit the plane to see them..although John Lennon once said something about everyone adapting a song  to their own experience if they like and that it was perfectly okay to do that. 

Sex in relation to Rock music has been taken to the extreme over decades anyway and for me it's a burden to explain to people in the audience that it isn't always that way. Many original Blues masters from the Mississippi delta and Chicago had been deprived of sex through the tragic environment of slavery. It may also have been out of desperation that they wrote such lyrics because of the times they were living in where upon sex was bad and disrespectful just as Ray Davies quote in "Victoria" that sex was bad and making reference to life in the pretense in England or complaining about the current lifestyle and rules of the British in THOSE times. Also take into account that a white man would not be judged for rape , but a black man would.All these tragic experiences seemed to be evident in the Blues. The stories of sex and the unfairness of it in the South or the desperation to have sex and a world of their own which no man ruled over.   Blues and Rock n' Roll ruled over these trials when it became appealing to a white audience. You wouldn't be discussing who you had sex with to a slave owner from the South unless you wanted to be abused or punished. Maybe not in all cases, but it certainly seemed that way to me. I assume if you protested against the rape of your girlfriend/backstreet girl/wife by a slave owner you would be executed and I've discovered Blues lyrics relating to that. Some of the sexy lyrics in Blues contain references to voodoo/mojo, witchcraft, and a desperate cry to be with a woman.  Words like "honey bee" and so on...were sexual. 

In the past...Prog has covered the areas of Gnosticism where it was not thought of as kindly measures to be feeling proud of an imperfect world and an imperfect body or flesh garment. Prog has also spoken of Satan in a ritualistic way. It has often made reference to having sex with demons or even Satan himself. Prog touches upon the subject of sexual intercourse through a religious or supernatural experience. Blues touch upon the same ideals , but was more "down to earth" with riddles and sexual references in the style of street talk. 

 
I no expert on American slavery Todd, but I find it hard to imagine that sex for black slaves was discouraged as that would have produced free salves that than could be sold to other slave owners for what I'm sure would have made them some big bucks.


Not discouraged and not going out of their way to discourage male slaves from having sex, but humiliating them after it was assumed that they were already having sex in a relationship by raping their women and expecting the male slave to live with that reality as a means of psychological torture. Just acting mean about it. Taking advantage of a woman who was in love with a male slave basically. But hardly anything about a slave's life was encouraged or validated anyway, so I don't visualize a male slave working in a cotton field or on a pea farm, strolling into work and discussing what he had been doing with his woman without getting slapped around or even beaten. It was important to produce free slaves and I agree with you on that point, but I seriously doubt if the majority of slave owners allowed the slaves to enjoy the idea....which was to converse about it to others...and that's precisely what is discussed in Blues songs.


Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 23 2014 at 08:14
One particular Blues lyric that strikes me as strange is..."I don't want no woman, I want every downtown man she with". Proper diction never fits into Rock n' Roll or Blues anyway, but this must mean that the man wants to fight every man who has had sex with his woman. 


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 23 2014 at 10:55
^Exactly. Jealousy and revenge are prevalent motifs in blues songs


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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 23 2014 at 12:20
The interesting aspect to sex related lyrics in Blues music is that they surround a different time period. To understand the various morals in people during those times... or the prejudice attitudes, you'll find that both scenarios enter into the concept of the sexual related stories in the Blues songs.In that sense it makes the music more interesting to me. There's signs of Folklore in the sex stories and a bit of voodoo/mojo from the Blues masters culture. The culture that was home to them ..prior to being unmercifully dragged into ours.  


Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 23 2014 at 13:23
I've Got a tombstone hand
and a graveyard mine
I'm just 22
and I don't mind dying


I've traveled the road in the music business for decades and every musician I've ever met....even in the present,. has a different interpretation for these lyrics. It could be that the word tombstone is making reference to death, the past, or a connection to it. The word hand could be a reference to coldness of the hands and a dark or black heart. Graveyard mine could be taken literally or a meaning of connection to death and possibly suicide. "I'm just 22 and I don't mind dying" is Satanic and can be attributed to a phrase used by witches who discover rituals which tell of rebirth and entrance to another world. 

It's a Hoodoo type of song . Hoodoo.spells.. dating back to the 1800's basically tells us to engage with supernatural forces in order to gain power to progress with one's life.The lyrics can be connected to a form of expression through Hoodoo social environment. The song is also taken by many folks to be a plea to a woman for sex. 


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 23 2014 at 14:38
^I've seen the above song with one subtle variation. Instead of 'and a graveyard mine', I recall seeing 'and a graveyard mind' which put's a completely different spin on the song, I. E. the narrator is  a murderous type. I'll see if I can recover more from my files.

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 23 2014 at 15:37
^Yes. Lightning Hopkins version of Who Do You Love.

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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 24 2014 at 05:51
Yes....I've seen that too



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