Phil Collins: A Nasty Man?

It is the bands job to please their fans?  No, no, no.  Once you pay for the cd, the deal is done, you gave the artist your money for their record.  Thats all their is to it... that seals the deal, the band does not owe you anything in addition like more albums that will appeal to your particular taste.

That's what RIAA wants, people buying albums without listening them first, so the deal is closed and we have to keep the trash or use it as a coaster.

Who said anything about paying for it without listening to it?  People that do that are the exact ones I blame for supporting artists even where their career turns to crap.

But yes, a lot of more humble artists recognize THEY OWE EVERYTHING THEY GOT TO THE FANS, and that's the true, because without fans there's no albums or cocerts and without albums and concerts there's no fancy cars, million dollars houses or rich & famous life style.

No sh*t?  And without the artists, the fans wouldn't get that music... so by your logic the fans must owe something to the artists for the albums they made?

They are not forced to make the musc we want, but they are forced to show some respect to the loyal fans that put them where they are, that suppotrted them for almost 10 years and not tell to all the press thatthe music they played and the bands that we love are like rotten apples that fall from the trees.

Sorry but the fans got what they payed for, albums.  The artists got what they sold those albums for, money.  The fans pay their rich and famous lifestyle because they want the music, not for the ability to force the band to respect them.  Sorry, you don't become a share holder of the band when you purchase an album.

You are essentially saying that when you buy an album, you suddenly own those band members, and you should get to control what they do and their artistic direction. 

No, I'm not saying that, but we deserve some respect at least is nis statements to the press. He didbn't had the heed to say that we listen crap or that he was happy that bands like Yes and Pink Flotd were overthroned by Punk.

He even insulted the public in one show because they asked for older stuff (You can do a search on Google).

I wasn't defending any public statements he made, only his and the bands right to record whatever they want, progressive or not.

So when one of your clients pays you for your service, should they get to decide what job positions you have, what services you provide, what you do with your own future?

No, but if I go to the press and tell them "Hey, my client didn't paid XXX bucks of taxes. or my client is an idiot", I won't go back and ask him for job again.

If I say in the press that I'm against bullfighting (And I done it even here), I won't go and ask to the Organizatopn of "Corridas" to let me take their case before the Congress.

Phil Collins said publicly that Prog is almost trash, and now that nobody cares for Illegal Alien or I Can't Dance comes with a new story about the Proghead he always was deep in his heart.

See, again, I was not defending anything other than his right to record what he wants.  If people want to insult him based on his public statements then go right ahead.  I can't see how he can possibly be so short on money that he needs to kiss ass to get it.

f fans are disappointed with their direction then why continue to be loyal?  When bands I like release albums I dont like, I dont buy them, and I don't waste my time whining that they didn't record an album just to cater to what I like.  Sorry, but its not Phil Collins or anyone elses job to record albums for any particular group of people, they just record what they want to record.

He can release whatever he wants, In my case I didn't bought any post ATTW3 album, except 3 Sides Live what I regret today because one side is not worth for 3 sides of crap (IMO).

But after his clear statements against early Genesis, Yes and Pink Floyd,  it's almost an insult to listen him (now that POP Genesis is history and nobody cares for them) saying things like The Lamb was always my favorite band or Yes was always my favorite band.

Well thats your problem if you find the music you like insulting to listen to because of public statements.  For me, if I liked the album, I'd buy it and think of it as paying for music I like.

As good as PG1, 2, 3 are, you've got to admit it is poppy... and not nearly as progressive as his Genesis work.  Its not like he left and outdid what he was already doing.

Nothing is nearly as Progressive as early Genesis except Steve Hackett (Most of his albums), but IMO the first three PG albums are very Progressive and even if not, what's the probblem? The music is good, adventurous and he didn't sold out, that's enough for me.

You must not have the same idea of selling out as I do.  I have heard Solsbury in a horrendous amount of movie previews and commercials and what not, and to me, to let your music be perverted by that association is selling out.

I think that he has a very long time playing music. He has lived almost all of his life working in music, so, maybe when he looks back to some things that he did in his youth, maybe he doesn`t like them anymore. He played Progressive Rock for many years. He needed a change. Maybe he was tired of singing "I Know What I Like" tour after tour. Persons grow and change. The same is for many musicians.

The film "Buster" has some good things, but other things are not funny.

I remember Peter Gabriel saying in interviews that  rejoining Genesis could be for him like "going to school again" or something like that. He also grew and changed. He maybe is very critical about his past work, like Collins.

Yes Guillermo, but the problem is the constant contradictions depending in what's more profitable at a determined moment:

• I rather listen Punk than Yes or Pink Floyd albums....... Yes was always my favourite band?
• I Never undersstood The Lamb.......The Lamb is the best album ever written
• I will never let Peter rejoin Genesis....I will only rejoin Genesis if Peter sings.
• Thanks God that punk came and shake the tree, the Prog bands fell like rotten apples....I want to rejoin the Classic Progressive Genesis lineup????

 I think that Collins wants a reunion of the Genesis quintet with Hackett and Gabriel more than Gabriel, because his voice has changed a lot and maybe he couldn`t reach higher notes as 20 years ago, so he only wants to play the drums.

I believe that the problem is that he's afraid of the reaction of the fans, if the show is full of Progheads, he will not be well recieved, and if the hall is full of POP fans they will shout for Collins to replace Peter, in any of both cases, he wins with Peter singing.

BTW: His voice is not the problem, I believe it's his audition.

Gabriel is not interested in the idea, maybe because the music he composed and recorded with Genesis is not as interesting as his music today for him, or maybe, like Collins, his voice also changed and he couldn`t reach higher notes as in the seventies.

Peter is a better singer today than in the 70's, he was never able to reach high tones, that's why he used his falsetto.

The problem is that Peter keeps evolving and doesn't want to loose everything, he has a big work with the Workl Cup and new projects. Phil hasn't made anything remotely decent for many years.

 Even in the "Six of the Best" concert in 1982 with Genesis, he couldn`t reach some of those high notes.

According to Mike, everybody sucked that night, they almost didn't rehearsed and Steve joined for the encores without any rehearsal. Peter was just reaching his peak at Milton Keynes, he was only 32 years old!!!!!!!! At that age you don't loose voice, you get better.

I can`t understand why many people despise Phil Collins.  I never have seen too much despise for other musicians, including Michael Jackson, Madonna, Sting, etc.

Because Wacko Jacko, Madonna and Sting neverplayed in a Prog band and nobody cares about them here. Outside the Forum, Sting is respected (Inside also) he's a correct man and a good artist, Madonna is fashion once each 3 or 4 years, the mutant is considered a freak everywhere.

Some people doesn`t know that even John Lennon didn`t like very much some albums he recorded with The Beatles. For example, he didn`t like the "Abbey Road" album, and he once described the "Sgt. Pepper" album as "crap"*. He never was totally happy even with his solo albums. What`s wrong with that? If Collins was bored of playing Progressive Rock, what`s wrong with that?

After The Beatles, John never talked, he only moved his lips and Yoko spoke through him. Plus John was tottally dissapointed with The Beatles and the path Paul took.

BUT, I think that Collins`lowest point is to compose music for Disney`s films. I agree with the people who criticizes his work for these films. I despise Disney`s ideology, which is always there in their films.

Drumming with N'Sync wasn't precisely a high point  But I agree Disney represents the lowest point ofhis career

* If someone is interested, those commentaries are available in "The Beatles:Recording Sessions" book, written by Mark Lewisohn, Harmony Books, 1988.

I'm short of bucks now

Iván