Phil Collins: A Nasty Man?

[QUOTE=JusLisn]I think many are too rough
on him. At the time that Genesis swayed toward pop-rock, it was better
(proggier) than anything else being played on the radio (remember, no
internet). Maybe we should give Genesis credit for keeping progressive-
rock alive and not completely dissapearing from the music scene.[/
QUOTE]

Sorry to disagree, but IMHO he did nothing remotely Progressive with
genesis (low case is not a mistake in this case), he didn't helped to keep
Prog alive.

That honor is for Neo Prog who  kept Progressive Rock alive despite
being underrated, simpler bands not accepted by mainstream listeners
and seen as second class by progheads. But hey did good Prog Rock,
simpler than Symphonic, but some very good.

This were the guys that kept Prog Alive, because a bald guy who sings
crappy ballads is doing nothing to save the genre only to fill (rhymeds
with Phil) his pockets.

But that's not the only problem, when he saw Prog was not profitable
he helped to throw trash to Prog, his interviews were really incredible.

• I rather listen Punk than a Pink Flloyd or Yes album.
  
• I never understood The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
  
• I would never let Peter rejoin Genesis (Genesis a History)
  
• If we were ever remotely popular is when Peter left.
  
• Yes genesis music is boring, but boring is good also....he, he.
[/
LIST]


But 15 years after, when only Prog fans care for Genesis, he changes
his argument for:





• My all time favorite album is The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
  
• I would only rejoin Genesis (Now with high case) if Peter sings.
  
• Yes was always my favorite band.



He's a wonderful drummer (A top 10 IMHO), a very good backing
vocalist and a decent singer, but a lousy songwritter that spoke in the
most contradictory way possible.




So sorry for Phil, but he got what he deserved.




Iván

Q: In retrospect, how much did punk rock really affect your life?
Well, I always felt that, hey, this big shake up ain't going to affect us, because there's substance to what we're doing. I never really felt threatened by it. But what I did feel was that it was going to get rid of a lot of that crap that was around.

Q: Like who?
Let's name names (laughs). Well, I mean, I had never been a fan of the bands that we'd always been compared to. I never really liked Jethro Tull that much. I never liked ELP at all. I was a big fan of the early Yes, but after Fragile I kind of lost interest. And the Floyd I've never loved apart from Arnold Layne. But we did this gig on Saturday at Cowdray Park for King Edward VII Hospital, and it was Queen, us, Clapton and the Floyd, and actually I went to the soundcheck and I was listening to the Floyd and a couple of the things they played I thought; I quite like that. There's a couple of things in there that, you know ...

http://www.philcollins.co.uk/q1293.htm

"Personally," admitted Phil. "I don't like any of those groups - so it angers me and frustrates me when we got compared to them. because I don't think . . . well. we've got a lot more substance and a lot more balls. and we're constantly questioning ourselves much more than any of them. And we've tried - and succeeded - to develop over the years, we've changed our music, because we keep our ears to the ground more than, say. the Moody Blues."

http://www.philcollins.co.uk/sounds251282.htm

I don´t think it´s fair to judge someone by 30 year old (or even 5 years) quotes but in this thread there are a lot of things Phil supposedly said. Here are some qoutes from the book - do they change our opinions of why Genesis sounded prog then but later evolved to something else?

• Steve: "I was an innocent bystander on the Lamb... It happened despite me, not with me... The nightmarishly long sides - everything linked to everything else... I couldn´t quite get to grips with it or contribute something great in a guitar sense...I don´t think Tony has ever done a finer album."

Steve said he didn't participated too much in The Lamb, but he believes it's Tony's finest musical job in other words, he always liked The Lamb, this is coherent with his behaviour, he never ceased to do Progressive Rock albums and was the first and only Genesis member to do a tribute ("Genesis Revisited" and "Tokyo Tapes").

He even invited Tony who first accepted and after a while refused (Taken from the same site where the Steve Hackett interview was copied at the end of this post). 

• Tony(about the Lamb): "...Pete went off and wrote lyrics and everyone else wrote the music."

What about this? He saiid something that is not new for anybody, Peter did the whole lyrixcs, Tony made the music and his words about "everyone else wote the music" prove how humble he is, because even Steve mentions the music of The Lamb as TONY'S FINEST JOB

• Mike(about the Lamb): When it came out it was a commercial failure. People talk about it now as a classic, but at the time, it died a death.

He prepares the ground, The Lamb was not popular when relased, but it's popular now, something we all know. Can't find the relevance of this quote, Mike is saying nothing new.

It's important to notice that Mike says nothing about the musical quality, he says it was a commercial faillure, something we all know.

• Phil(about the Lamb): "It certainly wasn´t my one of my favourite albums at the time but I can see now that it´s one of our better recordings...still suffering from bad production..."

We know Tony made the music, Peter the lyrics and stiry, probably the rest madse some arrangements but nothing else, but Phil said that he didn't liked The Lamb when it was unpopular and he was gaining millions with his music, but now that The Lamb is 100 times more popular than any thing done by Three  men Genesis (And of course much more profitable) jhe discovers a hidden love for it.

Remember that the guy said on many interviews (When his POP music was cool) that he hated Prog', the quotes are here, he disliked Yes, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and ELP.....HE CALLED THEM CRAP!!!!!!!

But even worst, he  felt embarrased when he listened the albums that now says he loves.....Phil's behaviour is clear, he knows where the bucks are and his natural contradictions work in the same direction as the market.

• Peter(about I know what I like): "We always tried to avoid writing hits...actually now I think it was really dumb."

What about this? He left Genesis with almost no money, he spent the few bucks he had in a non profitable but artistically acclaimed WOMAD, so it's normal that making some hits without compromising the quality would have been economically better.

But check something, Pete offered a huge amount of money to any person or company who had a full copy of The Lamb for 30 years, The Lamb was his concept, his child, I see nothing incoherent in his behaviour and/or words.

Reading the book it seems like Mike and Tony were the most proggish, both playing and composing in that manner. 

What??? Mike's first 100% own composition was Your Own Special Way, his work with the Mechanics and even his own is mostly POP.

Tony was Prog oriented, but Peter set the path for the band, use The Lamb as an example, he created the concept and made the lyrics before the music and everybody followed him.

Phil didn´t like confrontations and therefor(?) he´s liked by the other ones, of course his drumming, composing and singing skills plays in as well .

Sorry, but Phil barely did anything except More Fool Me until ATTW3, not even in ATOTT and much less in W&W which was mainly a Banks (At least 70%) - Hackett product with one Rutherford track

Steve was never really a part of the Genesis sound. Noone(even Gabriel) really understood the Lamb lyrics.´

What?? Steve created the Atmospheric trademark of Genesis, Genesis really grows when he joins and changes to POP whe he leaves. And please, Peter created The Lamb concept and lyrics, he had to understand them

What is the truth? Does it matter? All I know is that I like Genesis in the 70´s more than I like them in the 80´s or 90´s(even if they still have their moments). The change of direction - who is to blame? All of them

Of course, the three of them, but if

• Prog fans blame Phil for the change,
• POP fans credit Phoil for the change and
• Collins solo work is almost identical to Genesis late work,

Then the answer is clear, Phil lead the change.

 - I´m sure they would have changed directions even with PG and Hackett in the band. It´s not Phils fault!

Yes, but I0m sure that Peter and Steve would never allowed things as Illegal Alien, Misunderstanding or Who Dunnit?

Steve felt that W&W was weak and left his music was much more similar to early Genesis than any other member's stuff, so imagine what he would have thought about lñater albums?

In case yoiu don't know, here is a quote from him:

WOG: Do you recall a particular moment when you were in Genesis when you felt that it just wasn't worth staying in the band anymore? SH: Basically, the deciding factor was the fact that I had material that I felt was very strong, but I felt was outside the capability of the group to perform. Like, for instance, the song that Randy Crawford sings, "I Think Love Will Last," on Please Don't Touch!, which was the opening track of side two of that album. I thought the whole musical extravaganza of that side was strong, and I still do. I was really edging away from the group at that point. I was getting tired of bringing ideas into the group which I felt they weren't going to do. If the ideas were more radical, they weren't necessarily going to do them. I felt that the band was heading towards an area that was becoming very safe.   (...) WOG: There have been all sorts of rumors and speculation that particular members of the band sort of steered Genesis into a different musical direction. Was there a natural progression into another style of music or was there a conscious effort to do something more commercial? SH: Well, nobody said, "Let's do something more commercial." Not at that point. The last studio album I had done with the band, which was Wind & Wuthering, was still very much in the spirit of the albums which had preceded it. I think when I left it was another matter. http://www.worldofgenesis.com/SteveHackettInterview2001.htm

His point of view is clear, he didn't liked the path that Genesis was taking, and he's pretty nice to use the expression SAFE AREA to describe what Genesis was doing.

Then he said that until W&W the spirit of the reak Genesis was still alive, and when he left everything changed.

So yes, probably Genesis would have changed with Hackett and Gabriel, but never to something as embarrasing as they did.

I don't know about Phil Collins....but I hear Robert Fripp is a real jerk. Not busting the guy, I actually have a lot of respect for him, I'm just saying what I heard.  

Can anyone confirm this?