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paganinio 
Forum Senior Member
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 Topic: "Rewards repeated listening"
Posted: November 29 2010 at 19:43 |
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I see this phrase in reviews a lot. X album "invites and rewards repeated listening", as if other albums didn't.
Stop using this phrase! Every album rewards repeated listening! You're losing credibility as a critic when you put this phrase in a review!
By the way, I really don't like critics who listen to an album only five or six times and then write a review. When they do that, their opinions are horribly immature and uninformed. Unlike video games and movies, music is meant for repeated listenings, over a long period of time.
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 19:50 |
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Six times is a lot of times to listen to an album in a short period of time. And some albums are much less suited for repeats than others.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 19:54 |
Well, it seems like about five to six is generally good to get your mind around an album to write a review. I guess it really is a matter of how attentive you have been listening to it. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 19:56 |
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It usually means the album will only be properly appreciated after listening to it several times. Or it could also mean it won't get boring after many sessions. Some albums grab you from the get-go.
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thellama73
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:02 |
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In fact there are albums that seem to get worse the more times you listen to them. For example, I used to be a big fan of They Might Be Giants, but the more I listened to them, the less clever they seemed. Also, some albums take a long time to get into, while others are pretty accessible from the first listen. It's going to take most people longer to "get" Trout Mask Replica than Wish You Were Here. I think that is what the phrase refers to.
As for your second point, again it depends on the album. Five or six listens is more than enough for some albums, but barely scratches the surface of others.
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zappaholic
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:04 |
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One-word translation: grower.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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paganinio
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:28 |
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okay, I disagree with some of you. I think every album is a grower, especially since we're discussing in the "Prog Music Lounge" forum. I can't think of any prog music that doesn't reward repeated listenings. Therefore, it's redundant to mention it in a prog album review, don't you think?
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:29 |
 paganinio wrote:
okay, I disagree with some of you. I think every album is a grower, especially since we're discussing in the "Prog Music Lounge" forum. I can't think of any prog music that doesn't reward repeated listenings. Therefore, it's redundant to mention it in a prog album review, don't you think?
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The more I listen to Porcupine Tree the more I dislike it and Steve Wilson, so no, I would say that rewarding repeated listens is a matter of a opinion, even in prog.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Proletariat
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Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 1882
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:33 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
paganinio wrote:
okay, I disagree with some of you. I think every album is a grower, especially since we're discussing in the "Prog Music Lounge" forum. I can't think of any prog music that doesn't reward repeated listenings. Therefore, it's redundant to mention it in a prog album review, don't you think?
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The more I listen to Porcupine Tree the more I dislike it and Steve Wilson, so no, I would say that rewarding repeated listens is a matter of a opinion, even in prog. |
seconded. the more I listen to FOABP the worse it gets at first it was great and relatable to my childhood, then it was condesending but still good, then it was mediocre at best, then it became aggrivating and now it belongs to my brother and remains unchecked in my itunes library, even though my ipod would have space for it
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Tapfret
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:43 |
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I'm sorry, there are more than a few albums I want as far away from me as possible after the first listen. So no, not every album deserves repeated listens. And really, I see little problem with the statement in a review. You are welcome to your own criteria on the validity of reviews. I do not, however, share the same opinion that music is subject to different chronological context constraints than any other art form for the sake of review.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:11 |
paganinio wrote:
...
Unlike video games and movies, music is meant for repeated listenings, over a long period of time.
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I like how you mandate how we're not intelligent enough to listen to music ... to say that.
I won't take offense, but you have to know when someone is jingling your bells or simply adding words to a review ... if you didn't like someone's review, read another for crying out loud, because that is not the guy/gal that you want to learn something from ...
One last thing ... if you don't like reviews, why don't you find out for yourself, then?
It is way too easy to criticize reviews ... but have nothing to replace them with. Suggestion from a very experienced reviewer with many reviews of films in the Internet Movie Database ... shut up! and write your own!
In the end, why do you have to be told something is good or not? ... you can't tell? ... just admit it ... or you're lazy? ... what's the issue here?
We're people, just like you. So, if you don't like (for example) my review for King Crimson's first album, at least you know I didn't tell you to go listen to it 100 times to finally find out what that 31/32 beat was, because to me that is not a review ... that is someone telling you that they know music and that they don't think that the specific piece of music is not good enough! And I will tell you that person didn't listen to the music at all!
Example ... in school in Santa Barbara, the Theater department had a massive issue with the English department ... you know why? ... the turkeys in the English department never came to see a play because they all thought that the English or Iambic pentameter was incorrect ... they don't believe in theater ... just their scholarship ...and we all thought that all the professors in that department had small stix and din't know sex from a play from anything else in their life! We used to joke that most of those professors just needed to get laid! ... maybe even stoned once in a while! ... how's that for bad some 30 years ago!
It isn't the same here? ... oh my word!
Edited by moshkito - November 29 2010 at 21:17
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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thellama73
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:21 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
paganinio wrote:
okay, I disagree with some of you. I think every album is a grower, especially since we're discussing in the "Prog Music Lounge" forum. I can't think of any prog music that doesn't reward repeated listenings. Therefore, it's redundant to mention it in a prog album review, don't you think?
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The more I listen to Porcupine Tree the more I dislike it and Steve Wilson, so no, I would say that rewarding repeated listens is a matter of a opinion, even in prog. |
I feel that way about Frank Zappa.
paganinio wrote:
Unlike movies and video games, etc.
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I just noticed that. You don't think movies reward repeated viewings? There are classic films that I've seen a dozen or more times and still find something new in them every time. You're just being silly. Also, video games are intended to be played over and over again, although I'll admit that many of them don't have the subtlety of music or film. Also, why can't you rent CDs? You can rent movies and borrow books, but you can't rent CDs. (Don't give me that nonsense about there being CDs at the library. That doesn't count. No library I've ever ben to had more than a dozen titles.) I know it's irrelevant in the era of downloads, but before the internet I always wondered why there wasn't a Blockbuster for music instead of movies.
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paganinio
Forum Senior Member
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:24 |
I'm hoping someone will agree with me in this thread. I don't see any yet 
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:30 |
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To say albums are ready for you to review after five or six listens is not contradictory to albums growing on you more and more after that.
Edited by Slartibartfast - November 29 2010 at 21:31
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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paganinio
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:31 |
thellama73 wrote:
why can't you rent CDs? You can rent movies and borrow books, but you can't rent CDs.
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Because, unlike movies and books, music always requires (and rewards) repeated listenings over a long period of time, usually more than two years. If you rent it without owning it for a long time, you will get very little out of the music. You can finish a book and return it to the library. You can watch a movie once, and return it to Netflix. You can't do that with music. That's why you can't rent CDs. 
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RMR
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Joined: November 27 2010
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:35 |
Sometimes repeated listens are not a matter of choice.
Years ago, when I bought Yes' "Tales," I was completely broke, and money for a new album was not in cards, and I didn't have a large back catalog of CD's, so I spun "Tales" daily for weeks if not months. I thought it was completely boring for the first week or two, then all of a sudden, it all made sense.
So, I often wonder if I would like it as much as I do, if I had more cash at the time.
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WalterDigsTunes
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:38 |
paganinio wrote:
I'm hoping someone will agree with me in this thread. I don't see any yet
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No one's going to agree with someone that's wrong (ie, the guy with the annoying sun avatar). Let's face it: Some albums do reward repeated listens. Other albums lose their luster after various plays. And then there's those rare ones that will always leave you indifferent.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 23:13 |
thellama73 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
paganinio wrote:
okay, I disagree with some of you. I think every album is a grower, especially since we're discussing in the "Prog Music Lounge" forum. I can't think of any prog music that doesn't reward repeated listenings. Therefore, it's redundant to mention it in a prog album review, don't you think?
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The more I listen to Porcupine Tree the more I dislike it and Steve Wilson, so no, I would say that rewarding repeated listens is a matter of a opinion, even in prog. |
I feel that way about Frank Zappa.
paganinio wrote:
Unlike movies and video games, etc.
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I just noticed that. You don't think movies reward repeated viewings? There are classic films that I've seen a dozen or more times and still find something new in them every time. You're just being silly. Also, video games are intended to be played over and over again, although I'll admit that many of them don't have the subtlety of music or film.
Also, why can't you rent CDs? You can rent movies and borrow books, but you can't rent CDs. (Don't give me that nonsense about there being CDs at the library. That doesn't count. No library I've ever ben to had more than a dozen titles.)
I know it's irrelevant in the era of downloads, but before the internet I always wondered why there wasn't a Blockbuster for music instead of movies.
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There were a couple in my town....and lot of tapes...this is why they were just a couple and didn't last long.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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00ubermensch
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 01:57 |
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@WalterDigsTunes I agree with your point, but look who's talking about having an annoying avatar. Charlie Sheen?
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Tapfret
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 02:06 |
RMR wrote:
So, I often wonder if I would like it as much as I do, if I had more cash at the time. |
Aha! What a wonderful paradox. Your lack of excess led you excessively
listen to TfTO, prog's icon (in the minds of many, not necessarily mine)
of excess.
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
"Rewards repeated listening"
