Not prog

OK, my first post - so I think I'll throw the cat among the pigeons here, as there is a large cross-section of prog that is missing from this site, namely progressive metal - the 1980s variety.

Those missing include Diamond Head and Budgie - without either of whom Metallica might not have come about. And what about Metallica themselves? Surely Master of Puppets is a prog album if ever there was one? Or Justice for All - over the top, maybe. Pretentious, definitely. But still very progressive. Even Ride the Lightning and Kill 'em All deserve a better label than simply "thrash".

Now I've touched on the borders of NWOBHM, I'd like to be brave and suggest that early Def Leppard (High and Dry and On Through The Night) are prog, as with the early Judas Priest albums. We can forgive Priest their technical ineptitudes and poor production due to the high quality of the riffs they produced and developed.

Queen, undoubtedly are one of those bands that people overlook when thinking about prog - and everyone says "Oh, maybe Queen II is proggy". What about Queen I? A Night At the Opera - Bohemian Rhapsody is probably so familiar to us through over-exposure that we dismiss it. But it's a remarkable piece - and truly progressive in every sense of the word. Innuendo, too, is their last-gasp look back to their roots without alienating their "pop" audience. Sheer brilliance, if you ask me.

There seem to be a lot of threads here on "Is X prog" or "Is X not prog", but none that discuss what prog is. I hereby volunteer to start that thread

In that respect, there is little that we cannot embrace under the umbrella term "prog" - which is good, as truly great music includes as much as possible from "other genres" and knows that it is ignorance to exclude.

I don't go for sub-dividing prog as I don't really like labels. Prog is label enough, in my opinion - and I'm very guilty of expressing my opinion at every opportunity - hope I don't cause any offence in my first posting!

Cheers!

Cert

JOURNEY!...Hard for me to consider this band as prog rock...I think that their self title album is brilliant...also few others from their jazzy period...however it generaly sounds to commercial for my ears...their 80s albums are just disappointing.

Scafell wrote: The following artists have appeared on websites such as this illustrious one and also in prog books and I have a real issue with their inclusion. I know the classification of music encompasses lots of grey areas and is the matter of great subjectivity. Roxy Music; Kate Bush; Queen; David Bowie

I am not going to defend the others mentioned but QUEEN & BOWIE, in my mind, definately belong in the "Art Rock" subcategory of progressive rock.

My personal opinion (worth what you paid for it) is that we unfairly exclude several bands from that category as is.  Example: JOURNEY, before Steve Perry completely took over and they fired Aynsley Dunbar.

Scafell wrote: ... In fact, the only dark period for prog seems to have ben the eighties but lets face it, that was a cultural desert for all art forms, especially music...

Just like you, I consider that the eighties is a period of "decadence" musically speaking...however many believed that a new prog scene emerged during that period...with numerous bands which mix melodic hard rock songs to prog spirit...Saga, Asia and others...I personnaly doesn't think that they can enterily be estimated as prog...but the category itself can't stop enlarging.  

My first posts seem to be moans - so let's continue in that vein - I'll be more positive, honest.

The following artists have appeared on websites such as this illustrious one and also in prog books and I have a real issue with their inclusion. I know the classification of music encompasses lots of grey areas and is the matter of great subjectivity.

Roxy Music; Kate Bush; Queen; David Bowie

All pop, pop, pop and nothing more (ok Queen started as a straight up ri=ock band but soon sold their souls for the filthy lucre)

Pekka Pohjola; Terje Rypdal - Jazz

It's a bit like classing George Gershwin as classical when his music was also plainly Jazz !!!

I re-iterate, it is a matter of opinion but prog has to have more than just intelligence in the writing.

Another bone of contention which we've all seen is the accusation of prog being self-indulgent and consisting, in the main, of long solos. Whereas this can occasionaly be valid it is not what prog is about and never has been. It is the only modern music form which has the freedom to express itself fully but without (and here's an important point) becoming avant garde.

Another important factor overlooked by the critics of the genre is the wealth of talent currently producing prog music. I cite The Flower Kings, Spock's Beard/Neal Morse, Ritual, White Willow, RPWL, In The Labyrinth, Clepsydra to name but a few. It has moved on enormously from the early days of King Crimson, ELP and Genesis. The oft mentioned exponents were instrumental in the creation of the genre but played only a very small part in it's inception. Many bands have carried the banner since those times. In fact, the only dark period for prog seems to have ben the eighties but lets face it, that was a cultural desert for all art forms, especially music.

I don't expect people to agree with me - we all have our opinions and this is just mine. Happy listening!!