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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Online
Points: 18509
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 19:19 |
Hi,
There is enough from this band that fits the "prog" description far better than a lot of bands listed as prog, that are only using a sound effect.
First of all, the thing that made LZ so big and good, was that there indeed was a lot of care to detail and the work for each of them in the band came together because of it. It was a time where the ability and desire to define new feelings and musics were a lot more important than simple/boring pop music, or commercial sounding songs, which 90% of all music in the radio is ... and "progressive music" is NOT.
That said, there are a lot of songs that really get the blood boiling and that stand out not only because of its strength and design but also its total lack of care if someone called it rock'n'roll or not ... it was about the feeling they had and how they expressed it, and that is what "Whole Lotta Love" is all about, itself a massive progressive rocker, were it not that we ... specially when compared to a lot of things we call progressive that are mere copies of the original, and just a sound effect ... this was real music done right before your eyes and they could tear your heart out dancing in concert! Led Zeppelin bootlegs remain the testament to some of the best live concerts you will ever hear ... and the most special is the series around Bonzo's Birthday Party and Live on Blueberry Hill boots. The strength, the power, the connection and their ability to stay with each other, is by far one of the most powerful things anyone could ever see in music that is not appreciated a whole lot.
But it also showed the one side of things that many people don't like in music and specially progressive ... the improvisational side, which in this case, Jimmy states in "It's Gonna Get Loud" was really a result of the combination of really good folks and artists that worked together very well. And were not afraid to try different things.
I always thought that Physical Graffiti could have been one album only and it would have been even better, but it's still very good and shows an experimental side and Kashmir would be a progressive anthem if it were done by someone else instead of Led Zeppelin.
Presence, is a bit different for me. I liked Achiles' Last Stand at the time, when some folks thought that Jimmy was merely trying to keep up with Jeff Beck who had started doing some really far out things on his own solo albums and simply just exploding on the guitar. I disagreed ... I thought that this was actually a very good composition almost classical in every aspect, except the guitar was going to play the parts ... and it stands up! But rockers and fans that like Stairway to Heaven don't usually care for it ... what's it about? Like they knew what Stairway to Heaven was all about!
In many ways, things like this really helped progressive music get a better ear ... because it was different and special in its own way ... and that was one of the most glorious things in music in those days. There was a desire to do more with the music ... way more ... and way more adventurous and progressive than what is being done in New York or London today ... which is copycat music!
Edited by moshkito - May 28 2010 at 19:42
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Ronnie Pilgrim
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: The South of TX
Status: Offline
Points: 771
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 13:26 |
mr.cub wrote:
Song Remains the Same, Rain Song, No Quarter. HOH was the nearest they came to prog
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Agreed!
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 971
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 12:33 |
Song Remains the Same, Rain Song, No Quarter. HOH was the nearest they came to prog
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 09:56 |
Being an ELP fan I do love Carouselambra which sounds like ELP plus guitars. Not sure whether Over the Hills and Far Away is prog but it's definitely one of their best. I love the structure with the acoustic opening which eventually leads into the funky electric guitar riff. Kashmir and No Quarter are prog classics for sure.
Edited by Cactus Choir - May 28 2010 at 09:56
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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EatThatPhonebook
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2009
Location: Norwich, VT
Status: Offline
Points: 788
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 09:02 |
How about Caroulesambra? Sounds pretty progish to me
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 08:30 |
Black Dog has a proggy feel too
Immigrant Song is great
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Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1029
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 05:28 |
I agree with 'Achilles Last Stand'. That is possibly Zep's most proggy song. Bonham's drums sound incredible on that, true. And there's a lot of complex multi-layered guitar work on that track, too.
And the Houses Of The Holy album may be the closest they've come to becoming a prog band. No Quarter, The Rain Song, The Song Remains The Same, all PROG.
Also, the track in my username is more than a little proggy, too... 
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Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 30119
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 01:21 |
Achilles Last Stand as already mentioned is a great prog track.Bonzo's drumming is what stands out for me. One of the most incredible performances from him or anyone for that matter. There's also a brilliant live version on the DVD.
A bit off topic,but Led Zep used to rehearse at Advision studios often with ELP using the top studio at the same time. Apparently Zep held some wild parties (no surprise there!) as mentioned in Keiths autobiography. Also Emmo mentions a time when both bands were recording in Switzerland and Bonzo came round to his house and knocked on the door carrying a bottle of Jack Daniels and several Led Zep albums tucked under his arm. They spent a boozy night listening to Zep!!
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 18026
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 23:36 |
Led Zeppelin = Blues band with a serious attitude. Progressive in that they can take a '30s folk song like Gallows Pole and turn it into a hard rocking blues classic.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65780
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 19:03 |
^
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 18:52 |
Boogie With Stu
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65780
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 18:36 |
'The Song Remains the Same' 'In the Light' 'Ten Years Gone' 'Nobody's Fault But Mine' 'All My Love'
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 18:24 |
I really don't think Zeppelin can be pigeonholed into one category. A lot of their "blues" songs were not really blues songs, more like blues with a hard rock or psychedelic twist. They were not a prog band no but they had a lot of songs with progressive elements especially from IV and onwards. Houses of the Holy is the closest they have ever been to prog.
Of all the 70s hard rock bands I certainly consider Zeppelin the most diverse. I absolutely hate it when people write them off as just being "cock rock". They ventured further beyond hard rock than every other band that has been given that title, except maybe Queen.
Edited by boo boo - May 27 2010 at 18:28
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Nightfly
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 01 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 3659
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 17:51 |
WatcherOfTheSkies88 wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
WatcherOfTheSkies88 wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
I think we're in danger of mistaking long songs as prog here. While I agree that the likes of Stairway, Achilles, The Rain Song etc have prog elements Dazed And Confused, When The Levee Breaks and In My Time Of Dying are all blues songs. |
Disagree... "In My Time Of Dying" has multiple sections and has a pretty complex structure... it may be blues, but it is also progressive. "Dazed and Confused" also has a prog-ish structure to it with the long middle section composed of the part in which Page uses the bow (usage of a bow in any song is almost an automatic qualifier of a song being progressive by itself) and then the fast rock section.
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Admittedly In My Time Of Dying does have a few different sections, though not particularly complex IMO, (great kick drum pattern from Bonham by the way) but that doesn't make it prog. It goes from the slow blues start into an up tempo extended guitar solo before the vocals return to close. That's not enough to make it prog. If we are to start calling songs prog just because it strays from a typical verse-chorus-verse-chorus-midd 8-solo-chorus structure then that opens the floodgates to call just about every sixties and seventies rock band prog. Don't know if you were around back then but it was the norm, particularly in the live arena for bands to go off on endless musical jams, no better example than the Grateful Dead. Dazed and Confused live also got very long but was just a jam. To address your violin bow on guitar justification as a qualifier as being prog. Well it may be a bit different but I don't see how that makes it prog. Incidently Page wasn't the first to do that. I beleieve he ripped the idea off Eddie Phillips, guitarist with The Creation who used it back in 1966. |
I agree that a jam isn't progressive... if In My Time of Dying was just a jam, then it wouldn't be progressive, no matter how long it is. But I don't consider it a jam at all... it is very structured IMO. I think the multiple different sections and the length are enough to qualify it as progressive... but I think you have a more stringent policy on what is prog and what is not, so we'll have to agree to disagree. 
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I didn't say In My Time Of Dying was a jam, they certainly had a plan and yes it is structured, it was Dazed and Confused when they played it live where the jamming came in that I was reffering to. You are right though, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. 
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WatcherOfTheSkies88
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 22 2010
Location: Hawaii
Status: Offline
Points: 79
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 15:25 |
Nightfly wrote:
WatcherOfTheSkies88 wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
I think we're in danger of mistaking long songs as prog here. While I agree that the likes of Stairway, Achilles, The Rain Song etc have prog elements Dazed And Confused, When The Levee Breaks and In My Time Of Dying are all blues songs. |
Disagree... "In My Time Of Dying" has multiple sections and has a pretty complex structure... it may be blues, but it is also progressive. "Dazed and Confused" also has a prog-ish structure to it with the long middle section composed of the part in which Page uses the bow (usage of a bow in any song is almost an automatic qualifier of a song being progressive by itself) and then the fast rock section.
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Admittedly In My Time Of Dying does have a few different sections, though not particularly complex IMO, (great kick drum pattern from Bonham by the way) but that doesn't make it prog. It goes from the slow blues start into an up tempo extended guitar solo before the vocals return to close. That's not enough to make it prog. If we are to start calling songs prog just because it strays from a typical verse-chorus-verse-chorus-midd 8-solo-chorus structure then that opens the floodgates to call just about every sixties and seventies rock band prog. Don't know if you were around back then but it was the norm, particularly in the live arena for bands to go off on endless musical jams, no better example than the Grateful Dead. Dazed and Confused live also got very long but was just a jam. To address your violin bow on guitar justification as a qualifier as being prog. Well it may be a bit different but I don't see how that makes it prog. Incidently Page wasn't the first to do that. I beleieve he ripped the idea off Eddie Phillips, guitarist with The Creation who used it back in 1966. |
I agree that a jam isn't progressive... if In My Time of Dying was just a jam, then it wouldn't be progressive, no matter how long it is. But I don't consider it a jam at all... it is very structured IMO. I think the multiple different sections and the length are enough to qualify it as progressive... but I think you have a more stringent policy on what is prog and what is not, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Alberto Muņoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 15:21 |
Prog songs of LD? Well Achille's Last Stand, stands on his own.
Also Hatts off to Roy Harper a very weird prog folk song.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 14:58 |
I can definitely see Dazed and Confused as a case of "early progressive" but anyway I think their "prog" output came in the maturity phase, from Houses Of The Holy onwards. This is why I think they were influenced by prog, not vice versa.
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Nightfly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 01 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3659
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 14:46 |
WatcherOfTheSkies88 wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
I think we're in danger of mistaking long songs as prog here. While I agree that the likes of Stairway, Achilles, The Rain Song etc have prog elements Dazed And Confused, When The Levee Breaks and In My Time Of Dying are all blues songs. |
Disagree... "In My Time Of Dying" has multiple sections and has a pretty complex structure... it may be blues, but it is also progressive. "Dazed and Confused" also has a prog-ish structure to it with the long middle section composed of the part in which Page uses the bow (usage of a bow in any song is almost an automatic qualifier of a song being progressive by itself) and then the fast rock section.
|
Admittedly In My Time Of Dying does have a few different sections, though not particularly complex IMO, (great kick drum pattern from Bonham by the way) but that doesn't make it prog. It goes from the slow blues start into an up tempo extended guitar solo before the vocals return to close. That's not enough to make it prog. If we are to start calling songs prog just because it strays from a typical verse-chorus-verse-chorus-midd 8-solo-chorus structure then that opens the floodgates to call just about every sixties and seventies rock band prog. Don't know if you were around back then but it was the norm, particularly in the live arena for bands to go off on endless musical jams, no better example than the Grateful Dead. Dazed and Confused live also got very long but was just a jam. To address your violin bow on guitar justification as a qualifier as being prog. Well it may be a bit different but I don't see how that makes it prog. Incidently Page wasn't the first to do that. I beleieve he ripped the idea off Eddie Phillips, guitarist with The Creation who used it back in 1966.
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WatcherOfTheSkies88
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 22 2010
Location: Hawaii
Status: Offline
Points: 79
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 13:50 |
Nightfly wrote:
I think we're in danger of mistaking long songs as prog here. While I agree that the likes of Stairway, Achilles, The Rain Song etc have prog elements Dazed And Confused, When The Levee Breaks and In My Time Of Dying are all blues songs. |
Disagree... "In My Time Of Dying" has multiple sections and has a pretty complex structure... it may be blues, but it is also progressive. "Dazed and Confused" also has a prog-ish structure to it with the long middle section composed of the part in which Page uses the bow (usage of a bow in any song is almost an automatic qualifier of a song being progressive by itself) and then the fast rock section.
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Nightfly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 01 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3659
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Posted: May 27 2010 at 13:18 |
I think we're in danger of mistaking long songs as prog here. While I agree that the likes of Stairway, Achilles, The Rain Song etc have prog elements Dazed And Confused, When The Levee Breaks and In My Time Of Dying are all blues songs.
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