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Updated releases information for "Outer Space" by Sunchild.

From the album: Synesthesia

Composer: Sunchild
Producer, Mixing, Mastering, Lyrics: Antony Kalugin
Producer: William Mackie

Released: May 12, 2015
Format: Digital
Label: Caerllysi Music


Progarchives - https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=50137

- E&O Team: Thanks, done.


Edited by NotAProghead - September 06 2023 at 14:33
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Updated releases information for "Glimpse of Love" by Sunchild.

From the album: Synesthesia

Composer, Producer, Mixing, Mastering: Antony Kalugin
Producer: William Mackie
Lyrics: John Sleeper

Released: May 12, 2015
Format: Digital
Label: Caerllysi Music


Progarchives - https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=50136

- E&O Team: Thanks, done.


Edited by NotAProghead - September 06 2023 at 14:36
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Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Lots of intrusive Ã's. I wish the server admin would get this annoying error fixed. :_:
What do you mean? I don't see any error or strange characters.


It's back to normal now. Weird.
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Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by mbzr48 mbzr48 wrote:

https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81963
https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81973

Duplication

E&O Team: OK... hmmm... let's see... We don't have 1 nor 2 nor 3... but 4 options here!!!! It's either Karfagen, Sunchild, Hoggwash or Antony Kalugin. Since the latest is the link between all bands, I guess we should keep him as the main artist for this entry?

I think we should keep the Karfagen release https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81973 because according to Antony's bio, "ANTONY KALUGIN is the only person to have participated on his solo albums. He has played every instrument and wrote every song, making this a totally solo project".


If you check his albums under his name on the list of musicians there are always other musicians playing with him! I added this album there cause Karfagen / Sunchild/ Hoggwash are ALL his bands and if I posted it under Karfagen then I should do under Sunchild and Hoggwash too and that makes no sense so that's why I posted it under Antony, my opinion

E&O Team: I feel some explanation would be helpful.
We know Antony Kalugin is the mastermind of all his bands. But I think he releases albums only by his name in order to distinguish between his personal works and group efforts. Thus if we see Karfagen, Sunchild or Hoggwash on the album cover it's not Antony Kalugin's solo album.

Closest parallel would be Ian Anderson. Cats and dogs know Ian Anderson = Jethro Tull. But Ian explained that when works on Tull album he thinks how to leave space for other band members creativity, solos etc. While when he makes Ian Anderson's album it's just his vision, other musicians' voices don't count.


Edited by NotAProghead - September 06 2023 at 14:57
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Lots of intrusive Ã's. I wish the server admin would get this annoying error fixed. :_:
What do you mean? I don't see any error or strange characters.
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^ Thanks Mayer, fixed.
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https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=82002

I made a mistake, sorry the album's name is "Solar Island"
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Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Thanks, David, I've corrected names in the bio and changed the year of the debut album's digital version.

As for dividing New Name / ex Old Name bands' pages, I still strongly against it because in my opinion it brings more confusion than we have now. Probably I don't completely understand your idea, but I feel it's the last thing in life I'd like to be a part of. Smile
Additionally, in my opinion to start this "revolution", admins' request would be necessary. Yes, technically we can do it, but ethically it's the "admins' case".
 I think it might also be worth adding in that there is the February 21st 2020 digital re-release of the debut album as The view Inside (on Bandcamp, Spotify, Apple Music etc, but not included on Discogs at the moment) with 11 tracks instead of 12, which is the one that our tracklist and musicians line up is based on.

So maybe it should read:

Digital album (2019, as BRIAND BOURSIN ROHR)
Digital album (2020, as THE VIEW INSIDE)

This, of course, once again brings into confusion the year when the name change actually occurred, so I'd also be tempted to edit that opening line of the biography to say: "Formed as BRIAND BOURSIN ROHR in 2019, subsequently changed name to THE VIEW INSIDE" - and leave it at that!

The line below in the biography really needs to be changed too, since when I wrote the original submission for this artist several weeks ago, I had not really looked thoroughly at all the Discogs releases, and had based my resumé of the band's history on the Bandcamp date for release of their debut album:

Line 7-8: The arrival of 'The View Inside' in February 2020 marked his debut as a full fledged lead singer (date needs changing to June 2019).

This really has been a difficult artist to resolve, but I think once those changes are done we'll be more or less there!

E&O Team: Thanks, David, done. Hope I missed nothing.

As for your thoughts regarding my suggestion regarding bands who've changed names in general, I hear you loud and clear, but if you wanted to get a feel for how it would work, just create a temporary entry for Briand Boursin Rohr using a spare unused artist page (previous deletion) with this text written there: BRIAND BOURSIN ROHR was the band name previously used by THE VIEW INSIDE when they were formed in 2019. You can always ask admins to delete the page again if you don't like the way it works. Smile

And that's all you would need to include there. This 'placeholder' entry would then show up in the alphabetical list of all the artists that have been added to the site, and anyone finding it in the list and visiting the page would be redirected via the hyperlink to the current one for The View Inside, where all the relevant information is available. Same would apply to any artist that has changed their name at some point if a similar new page was created for them under their old name.

I think it would be a dead simple modification to the site really, and if it was applied to all the artists that have changed their name at some point, it would do away with the need for all these 'New Name / ex Old Name' page headings that we have. Admins would need to be consulted about something like this for sure, but if it's the last thing in life you'd like to be a part of, then I fully understand where you're coming from. Your job here is tough enough as it is lol!

Edit: I think the existence of a separate page for Briand Boursin Rohr would make Mayer a lot happier too. It would pretty much address all his comments in his chicken and egg post a few days ago! Embarrassed

E&O Team: I think no need to disturb admins, I hope I can imagine how it will look. 
But once again, if we decide (I still hate the idea Smile) to change all New Name / ex Old Name bands, it should be universal solution for all of them (Julien, using his tool, can say how many bands).

Let's suppose some band released several albums under old name and several albums under new name. And then - lots of possible cases, like re-releasing old material under new name, making compilations etc, then some member leaves new band and decides to proceed under the old band's name. Something we can't predict is also possible. Do we need this headache? I think no.

P.S. I don't know who I "love" more - The View Inside band or Antony Kalugin with all his projects and you suggest to handle a new bunch of namechangers. Have mercy to an old man. LOL


Edited by NotAProghead - September 06 2023 at 15:47
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Lots of intrusive Ã's. I wish the server admin would get this annoying error fixed. :_:
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^ Thanks, David, I've corrected names in the bio and changed the year of the debut album's digital version.

As for dividing New Name / ex Old Name bands' pages, I still strongly against it because in my opinion it brings more confusion than we have now. Probably I don't completely understand your idea, but I feel it's the last thing in life I'd like to be a part of. Smile
Additionally, in my opinion to start this "revolution", admins' request would be necessary. Yes, technically we can do it, but ethically it's the "admins' case".
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Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

David, please look at the album page. I've added whitespaces, changed the release year to 2019 (because of this entry on Discogs, its backcover reads: 2019) and added writing-production-mixing etc credits to the Release info.
Additionally, I've added the line "Formed as BRIAND BOURSIN ROHR in 2019, changed name to THE VIEW INSIDE in 2023" in the band's bio (actually I don't know was the name changed in 2023 or earlier).
That's great Eugene, thanks! The only consequence of editing the bio is that a couple of spurious characters have been re-introduced in paragraph 3 after Cristi had originally fixed them last week (William BALD�, Christophe MA�, - which should read William BALDÉ & Christophe MAÉ).

It does appear that the band name had already been changed by late September 2022. I don't know if you use facebook, but there was an event posted on there advertising an album release show by American bass player Marco Mendoza featuring his new band line up at the Cherrydon Club in La Penne-sur-Huveaune, France on 10th October 2022, at which The View Inside performed under that name as the opening act: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10160186989452829&set=a.113497347828.

And yes, the digital version of the debut album was released in 2019...In fact the first batch of CDs were received by the band as early as May 29th 2019, but the CD version of the album doesn't seem to have been officially released until Feb 2020. CD unboxing video on facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=364000687435112.

Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Probably makes sense, but let's think of the consequences if we'll change the policy.
It's a pretty long list of New Name / ex Old Name bands. If we divide all of them someone has to do the following:
- add "new" artists;
- move albums under new names to new pages;
- rework all bios;
Changing name may also mean the change of the subgenre. If so Genre Teams have to be involved.

I don't think this kind of revolution worth time and effort.
I don't think it would be quite as complicated as that. No bios would need altering, and no albums would need moving under new names to new pages. All that would need to be done is to create a new page for each artist that has changed their name at some point with a heading corresponding to the old name, and write one line of text there saying that this was the previous name of whatever their new band name is (with the details of when the change occurred included if known).

A hyperlink embedded under the text of the current band name on that old band name page would then take the reader to the current band name page. All information (bio, albums etc) on the existing current band name page would remain unaltered - all that would need to be done with this existing page would be to remove the "ex - old name" part from the page heading, since the very simple new page that has been created under the old band name would bring you to it via the hyperlink embedded there.

It should hopefully only take a few minutes to do for each artist. No need even for a band photo there - these old band name pages would simply exist as markers (and pointers) that would show up in the database's alphabetical list to indicate to a visitor to the site who was searching for the old band name that an artist that has used the name at some point does exist here, and enable them to easily find the entry for the artist under their current band name when they open up the old band name page.

Hope that makes sense lol!
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Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

  I'm sorry that I've caused so much discussion here over this artist's addition, but since it was my original submission, and I put a fair amount of time into making it, I was rather disappointed to see Mayer's two posts here on the very same day that the band was added to the database.
In his first post here he pointed out that the original CD version of the album was released under the band name Briand Boursin Rohr, quoting the discogs link to the CD where Tumble Down & Faerie Lights are listed as two separate tracks and there are 12 tracks altogether, yet the Line-up/Musicians list he provided was just my original one for the later 11 track digital version of the album, but with the contributing guests listed in a different order (albeit he had also removed the spaces I had originally included in between the commas, and condensed down any runs of sequential tracks that were there by using a hyphen between the first and last numbers rather than listing each number individually as I had originally done, which was fair enough).

He had also added "- Matt Rohr / mixing" into the key musicians section, which I thought was totally out of order, since although Matt is one of the three guys who created the project, and his name features in the original band name, he is the technical wizard and co-writer of the trio, and doesn't actually play any instruments. On the occasions where we do include details of the people who mix, master, produce etc in an album's credits on PA, it is always at the very end of the list of guest musicians and singers who actually perform on the album.

The change of band name in 2023 was mentioned in the biography, and the very first line of my suggestion thread read: "The View Inside (formerly known as Briand Boursin Rohr)", so it really did seem as though Mayer's first post was somewhat unnecessary, never mind being inaccurate as well. The band's official website was also changed on our page at this time, which I didn't see as being the correct thing to do either.

Then in his second post here, he said that the list of musicians for the second album was different on their Bandcamp page to the one on our page (which I had provided). Bandcamp doesn't always list the full line-ups for an album - that site just includes the info that the artist supplies to them when the album is added there, and is not checked against the full definitive list of musicians who contribute to it. If Mayer had bothered to also check the discogs page for that album as well as the first one, he would have seen the full list of guest musicians there, so this second post of his was totally unnecessary, and thankfully Julien didn't make any changes as a result of it.

I have no objection whatsoever to the band name being changed to 'The View Inside / ex Briand Boursin Rohr', though I stand by my previous comments regarding why I feel it is unnecessary to create such an unwieldy PA name for the band in this instance. The debut album's details now point out the existence of the earlier CD release of the that album under the original band name, and mention the slight difference in the earlier track listing too. To add "Formed as BRIAND BOURSIN ROHR in 2020, changed name to THE VIEW INSIDE in 2023" at the start of the biography would be an excellent idea though, so I wholehearted agree with this. Approve

Despite originally releasing released their debut CD under a band name consisting purely of their own surnames, it seems the guys eventually came to the conclusion that this wasn't an ideal name for the band - not least because one of them doesn't actually contribute any instruments or vocals to the material - so when they changed the name to something more original for the release of the second album, they also re-released the first one (digitally rather than on CD) under the new band name.

Mayer says that if this band had been added in 2020 to PA it would clearly be "Briand Boursin Rohr" since nobody here has a crystal ball. That's true enough - and the entry for the debut album would have been the 12-track original CD version of it - but the name would obviously have had to be changed now to The View Inside (either with or without the 'ex Briand Boursin Rohr' part, which is not really particularly important now, bearing in mind what has happened since 2020). We didn't add the band in 2020 though, we added it in 2023, and in my opinion the addition should concentrate on the 'now' rather than the 'what used to be', with the latter merely being included for completeness.

That's my last word on this. I'm sorry again for causing you guys here a lot of unnecessary wasted time with my earlier comments, and with the benefit of hindsight, maybe I should have just kept quiet and let Mayer do what he wanted to unopposed.

David, please look at the album page. I've added whitespaces, changed the release year to 2019 (because of this entry on Discogs, its backcover reads: 2019) and added writing-production-mixing etc credits to the Release info.
Additionally, I've added the line "Formed as BRIAND BOURSIN ROHR in 2019, changed name to THE VIEW INSIDE in 2023" in the band's bio (actually I don't know was the name changed in 2023 or earlier).

Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Edit: On the more general subject of bands who have existed under two completely different band names, I really think that Progarchives goes about accommodating the different names in the database in the wrong way completely. I originally raised this subject here in early February this year, when I asked if there was an approved and accepted format for labelling a band's single page here on PA.

This latest case has really brought home to me the fact that the rationale of having just a single page on PA for bands who have existed under different names is somewhat flawed, and other websites such as Proggnosis do it much better by creating an entirely separate page for each incarnation of the band.

Why is that method better?

Let's say someone has just bought the original 'The View Inside' CD that was released under the band name 'Briand Boursin Rohr', and they like it. That person then looks in the alphabetical list of artists on PA under 'B' for them but can't find the band there. What does that person do? A Google search would take them to the View Inside's page of course, but wouldn't it be so much better if there was a separate entry for Briand Boursin Rohr which (for now at least) just said something like: "The original name used by 'The View Inside' (with hyperlink to their current page) when the band was created in 2020"?

That would be all that was required on that 'Briand Boursin Rohr' page, since the full discography and details of the sequence of events would be available to read on 'The View Inside' page, but you could also add something like: "Band name changed to 'The View Inside' with the release of the second album in 2023; digital re-release of the debut album under the new band name" if you wanted to, and you could even include the original CD version of the album with 12 tracks instead of 11 on that page if you wanted to be really thorough.

That method of accommodating previous band names on the site on a separate page does away with the need to have these unwieldly combined headings with both band names separated by a forward slash. In the case of The View Inside's debut album, although the details are clearly mentioned in the text of that page, a note in brackets could also be added to the title of it on the main page which read: "(originally released under the band name Briand Boursin Rohr)" to make this doubly plain (and something similar was indeed done after Mayer pointed out the name change in the first of his two posts) but with the unwieldy 'The View Inside / ex Briand Boursin Rohr' band name, the album itself appeared before as: "The View Inside (as Briand Boursin Rohr) The View Inside / ex Briand Boursin Rohr", which just looked ridiculous really.

Having separate pages for a band that has existed under two (or more) names thus does away with the need to have these unwieldy combined headings, makes a successful search for the original band name possible in the alphabetical listing on PA, and to me is a far more satisfactory way of doing things. Have a look at the way Proggnosis handles the matter if you don't believe me lol, though their method segregates a band's albums over the two pages rather than including all the information on the later band name page (which I feel is a better way of doing things - the old name page just containing a line or two of text and a link to the new one).

Just my thoughts, of course... Embarrassed

Probably makes sense, but let's think of the consequences if we'll change the policy.
It's a pretty long list of New Name / ex Old Name bands. If we divide all of them someone has to do the following:
- add "new" artists;
- move albums under new names to new pages;
- rework all bios;
Changing name may also mean the change of the subgenre. If so Genre Teams have to be involved.

I don't think this kind of revolution worth time and effort.


Edited by NotAProghead - September 05 2023 at 00:13
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Originally posted by mbzr48 mbzr48 wrote:

https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81963
https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81973

Duplication

E&O Team: OK... hmmm... let's see... We don't have 1 nor 2 nor 3... but 4 options here!!!! It's either Karfagen, Sunchild, Hoggwash or Antony Kalugin. Since the latest is the link between all bands, I guess we should keep him as the main artist for this entry?

I think we should keep the Karfagen release https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81973 because according to Antony's bio, "ANTONY KALUGIN is the only person to have participated on his solo albums. He has played every instrument and wrote every song, making this a totally solo project".




Edited by NotAProghead - September 05 2023 at 01:11
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Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

Originally posted by Prog Network Prog Network wrote:

Updated bio for Daniel Cross.

DANIEL CROSS is a multi-instrumentalist from the United States that made his first appearance in the prog scene in 2023 with the release of his debut EP titled A Descent into the Unknown. This EP consists of only two tracks, one being over thirty minutes in length. Additionally, DANIEL CROSS is listed as the only performer on the entire album, making this a truly solo album. The album is also fully instrumental, with keyboards being almost exclusively the lead instrument. Though being instrumental, the album tells the story of a crew navigating the unpredictable seas, encountering a diverse range of challenging situations. In the same year, DANIEL CROSS unveiled his inaugural album, "Tales from the Forgotten Realm," featuring four tracks ranging between three and eleven minutes in length. While not strictly a concept album, this record subtly weaves its tracks around medieval imagery. The transformation from his debut EP to this first full-length offering is distinctly evident in the album's stylistic nuances. While it maintains its core of keyboard and mellotron-dominated compositions, "Tales from the Forgotten Realm" embraces a darker undertone, marking a noticeable departure toward a less sanguine musical direction. DANIEL CROSS' music will best appeal to fans of instrumental symphonic prog, especially those who have a strong preference for keyboard-driven compositions.

Progarchives - https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=12449

Can you provide a picture for DANIEL CROSS?

I would like to update this page. A capital "D" would be nice at the beginning of the bio... Wink
Unfortunately, I do not have a picture for Daniel Cross. However if/when one becomes available I will submit it.

E&O Team: OK, I just added a "D" then... Tongue


Edited by projeKct - September 04 2023 at 17:02
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Originally posted by Prog Network Prog Network wrote:

Updated bio for Daniel Cross.

DANIEL CROSS is a multi-instrumentalist from the United States that made his first appearance in the prog scene in 2023 with the release of his debut EP titled A Descent into the Unknown. This EP consists of only two tracks, one being over thirty minutes in length. Additionally, DANIEL CROSS is listed as the only performer on the entire album, making this a truly solo album. The album is also fully instrumental, with keyboards being almost exclusively the lead instrument. Though being instrumental, the album tells the story of a crew navigating the unpredictable seas, encountering a diverse range of challenging situations. In the same year, DANIEL CROSS unveiled his inaugural album, "Tales from the Forgotten Realm," featuring four tracks ranging between three and eleven minutes in length. While not strictly a concept album, this record subtly weaves its tracks around medieval imagery. The transformation from his debut EP to this first full-length offering is distinctly evident in the album's stylistic nuances. While it maintains its core of keyboard and mellotron-dominated compositions, "Tales from the Forgotten Realm" embraces a darker undertone, marking a noticeable departure toward a less sanguine musical direction. DANIEL CROSS' music will best appeal to fans of instrumental symphonic prog, especially those who have a strong preference for keyboard-driven compositions.

Progarchives - https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=12449

Can you provide a picture for DANIEL CROSS?

I would like to update this page. A capital "D" would be nice at the beginning of the bio... Wink
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https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81532

1. Mankind (6:42) 2. August in September (6:20) 3. Eight Billion Heartbeats (9:23) 4. New Man (8:31) 5. Neighborhood of Spirits (7:52) 6. Peaceful Planet (5:33) 7. A Thousand Men (10:01)

Total Time 54:22

E&O Team: Thanks Mayer, done.


Edited by projeKct - September 04 2023 at 17:23
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Points: 2330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbzr48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2023 at 12:07
https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81963
https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81973

Duplication

E&O Team: OK... hmmm... let's see... We don't have 1 nor 2 nor 3... but 4 options here!!!! It's either Karfagen, Sunchild, Hoggwash or Antony Kalugin. Since the latest is the link between all bands, I guess we should keep him as the main artist for this entry?


Edited by projeKct - September 04 2023 at 17:22
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Points: 2330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbzr48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2023 at 12:04
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ To this and other Antony Kalugin's releases - they start scaring me because when I see suggestions to update them this always means: headache guaranteed. LOL Shocked

In case of "Phantasmagoria" and "Dragon Island" I agree, some consistency will not hurt.
Either "Phantasmagoria (Images, Sketches, and Elements 1)" and "Dragon Island (Instrumental symphonic art rock suite)" 
or "Phantasmagoria" and "Dragon Island" with notes in the release info "Subtitled ...."

What do you, guys, prefer?

P.S. Left unmarked Antony Kalugin's releases on the previous page for near future, because each update raises questions and takes too much time.


When it comes to Antony Kalugin he likes to change his mind all the time (he's a genius so why not) , since he has a bunch of bands it gets confusing at the end, IMHO "Phantasmagoria" and "Dragon Island" would be good enough but I really don't care, the only thing is like I pointed out, consistency!
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Points: 2330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbzr48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2023 at 09:25
https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=81661

- Samuele Scandario / guitars
- David Caretti / drums
- Massimiliano Dionigi / bass
- Riccardo Iacono / keyboards
- Alessandro Parigi / vocals

With:
- Dina Simona Isimiglio / flute
- Francesca Merli / vocals

Label: Loud N’Proud Records (LNPR 005)
Format: CD, Digital
February 25, 2023

E&O Team: Thanks Mayer, done.


Edited by projeKct - September 04 2023 at 17:13
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Points: 8090 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2023 at 05:10
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by mbzr48 mbzr48 wrote:

https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=12546

I just saw that my suggestion for the original bands name that was accepted by Julien was changed to the original after David brought up all kind of reasons, well here is my take on it! Briand Boursin Rohr in 2019 came up with an idea and a single which then became an album in 2020 with a CD that was called "The View Inside" on the CD cover you can clearly see 12 songs not 11 and the name of the band was very clear "Briand Boursin Rohr" they even appear on a seperate page on "Discogs" than the later band "The View Inside" that have their own page! let's say that this band would have been added in 2020 to PA it would clearly be "Briand Boursin Rohr" since nobody here has a crystal ball and can see the future that in 2023 they'll have an album and the band's name will be then changed to "The View Inside" the list of the songs on the original CD should be 12 songs and NOT 11 songs as it shows now which is taken from Bandcamp much later in time, I'm sorry that you guys had a very long debate about it but the outcome is 100% wrong! it should be on top of the page The View Inside / ex Briand Boursin Rohr and on the 2nd album the title should be The View Inside: Strange Destinations IMHO! David and many others in different arguments bring up Discogs so why now with all the photos of the front and back of the 1st album on Discogs we wasting time and debating the obvious and Discogs is not the final outcome? David's argument is based on 2023 Bandcamp my argument is based on a CD (Discogs) from 2020 it's NOT "the chicken or the egg" argument

I agree The View Inside / ex Briand Boursin Rohr would be a better name.
I would also add in the beginning of the bio:
Formed as BRIAND BOURSIN ROHR in 2020, changed name to THE VIEW INSIDE in 2023.

Regarding 11 or 12 tracks, I think the album page explains it well.
Though I don't mind if Mayer would like to correct track numbers in this short list: Smile
- Ludovic Briand / guitars, vocals, percussion (4,8), trumpet (3), bass (11), mandolin (2,11)
- Julien Boursin / piano (1,2,4,5,8,9,11), backing vocals (4,8), synthesizer (3,7), bass (7), strings (8), organ (5), percussion & programming (11)

With:
- Matt Rohr / mixing
- François Gomez / bass (2,3)
- Hadrien Féraud / bass (6,9)
- Serge Arèse / bass (1,4,5,8)
- Christophe Briand / drums (4), percussion (4,9)
- Gregg Bissonette / drums (5)
- Nicolas Viccaro / drums (3,6,7)
- Simon Phillips / drums (2,8,11)
- Vinnie Colaiuta / drums (9)
- Sibylle Liévois / cello (2,4,8,9,10,11)
- François Gomez / double bass (10)
- Levon Minassian / duduk (4,10)
- Matt Wong / electric piano (6)
- Jean-Louis Hennequin / flute (10)
- Jérôme Buigues / guitar (2)
- Nicolas Baudino / horns (7)
- Tanya Michelle Smith / lead & backing vocals (8)
- Julien Osty / percussion (4)
- Phillipe Jardin / percussion (8)
- Sebastien Lhermitte / percussion (1,2,3,4,7)
- Yannick Chavatier / percussion (4)
- Thomas Rebois / piano (10), synthesizer (6)
- Nicolas Baudino / saxophone (2,3,7)
- Marc Borlet-Hote / trumpet (3,7)
- Camille Briant / violin (2,4,8,9,10,11), cello (1)
- Luca Rohr / vocals (1,3)
- Adeline Briand / backing vocals (5,7)
- Jacky Zomero / backing vocals (6)
- John James / backing vocals (5)
- Magalie Ponsada / backing vocals (5,7)
- Patrice Carmona / backing vocals (5)
- Sabrina Briand / backing vocals (8)
- Valerie Ghent / backing vocals (5,7,8)


P.S. I didn't make changes before knowing David's opinion (after all in case of this band's bio he's the main contributor).


I'm sorry that I've caused so much discussion here over this artist's addition, but since it was my original submission, and I put a fair amount of time into making it, I was rather disappointed to see Mayer's two posts here on the very same day that the band was added to the database.

In his first post here he pointed out that the original CD version of the album was released under the band name Briand Boursin Rohr, quoting the discogs link to the CD where Tumble Down & Faerie Lights are listed as two separate tracks and there are 12 tracks altogether, yet the Line-up/Musicians list he provided was just my original one for the later 11 track digital version of the album, but with the contributing guests listed in a different order (albeit he had also removed the spaces I had originally included in between the commas, and condensed down any runs of sequential tracks that were there by using a hyphen between the first and last numbers rather than listing each number individually as I had originally done, which was fair enough).

He had also added "- Matt Rohr / mixing" into the key musicians section, which I thought was totally out of order, since although Matt is one of the three guys who created the project, and his name features in the original band name, he is the technical wizard and co-writer of the trio, and doesn't actually play any instruments. On the occasions where we do include details of the people who mix, master, produce etc in an album's credits on PA, it is always at the very end of the list of guest musicians and singers who actually perform on the album.

The change of band name in 2023 was mentioned in the biography, and the very first line of my suggestion thread read: "The View Inside (formerly known as Briand Boursin Rohr)", so it really did seem as though Mayer's first post was somewhat unnecessary, never mind being inaccurate as well. The band's official website was also changed on our page at this time, which I didn't see as being the correct thing to do either.

Then in his second post here, he said that the list of musicians for the second album was different on their Bandcamp page to the one on our page (which I had provided). Bandcamp doesn't always list the full line-ups for an album - that site just includes the info that the artist supplies to them when the album is added there, and is not checked against the full definitive list of musicians who contribute to it. If Mayer had bothered to also check the discogs page for that album as well as the first one, he would have seen the full list of guest musicians there, so this second post of his was totally unnecessary, and thankfully Julien didn't make any changes as a result of it.

I have no objection whatsoever to the band name being changed to 'The View Inside / ex Briand Boursin Rohr', though I stand by my previous comments regarding why I feel it is unnecessary to create such an unwieldy PA name for the band in this instance. The debut album's details now point out the existence of the earlier CD release of the that album under the original band name, and mention the slight difference in the earlier track listing too. To add "Formed as BRIAND BOURSIN ROHR in 2020, changed name to THE VIEW INSIDE in 2023" at the start of the biography would be an excellent idea though, so I wholehearted agree with this. Approve

Despite originally releasing released their debut CD under a band name consisting purely of their own surnames, it seems the guys eventually came to the conclusion that this wasn't an ideal name for the band - not least because one of them doesn't actually contribute any instruments or vocals to the material - so when they changed the name to something more original for the release of the second album, they also re-released the first one (digitally rather than on CD) under the new band name.

Mayer says that if this band had been added in 2020 to PA it would clearly be "Briand Boursin Rohr" since nobody here has a crystal ball. That's true enough - and the entry for the debut album would have been the 12-track original CD version of it - but the name would obviously have had to be changed now to The View Inside (either with or without the 'ex Briand Boursin Rohr' part, which is not really particularly important now, bearing in mind what has happened since 2020). We didn't add the band in 2020 though, we added it in 2023, and in my opinion the addition should concentrate on the 'now' rather than the 'what used to be', with the latter merely being included for completeness.

That's my last word on this. I'm sorry again for causing you guys here a lot of unnecessary wasted time with my earlier comments, and with the benefit of hindsight, maybe I should have just kept quiet and let Mayer do what he wanted to unopposed.

Edit: On the more general subject of bands who have existed under two completely different band names, I really think that Progarchives goes about accommodating the different names in the database in the wrong way completely. I originally raised this subject here in early February this year, when I asked if there was an approved and accepted format for labelling a band's single page here on PA.

This latest case has really brought home to me the fact that the rationale of having just a single page on PA for bands who have existed under different names is somewhat flawed, and other websites such as Proggnosis do it much better by creating an entirely separate page for each incarnation of the band.

Why is that method better?

Let's say someone has just bought the original 'The View Inside' CD that was released under the band name 'Briand Boursin Rohr', and they like it. That person then looks in the alphabetical list of artists on PA under 'B' for them but can't find the band there. What does that person do? A Google search would take them to the View Inside's page of course, but wouldn't it be so much better if there was a separate entry for Briand Boursin Rohr which (for now at least) just said something like: "The original name used by 'The View Inside' (with hyperlink to their current page) when the band was created in 2020"?

That would be all that was required on that 'Briand Boursin Rohr' page, since the full discography and details of the sequence of events would be available to read on 'The View Inside' page, but you could also add something like: "Band name changed to 'The View Inside' with the release of the second album in 2023; digital re-release of the debut album under the new band name" if you wanted to, and you could even include the original CD version of the album with 12 tracks instead of 11 on that page if you wanted to be really thorough.

That method of accommodating previous band names on the site on a separate page does away with the need to have these unwieldly combined headings with both band names separated by a forward slash. In the case of The View Inside's debut album, although the details are clearly mentioned in the text of that page, a note in brackets could also be added to the title of it on the main page which read: "(originally released under the band name Briand Boursin Rohr)" to make this doubly plain (and something similar was indeed done after Mayer pointed out the name change in the first of his two posts) but with the unwieldy 'The View Inside / ex Briand Boursin Rohr' band name, the album itself appeared before as: "The View Inside (as Briand Boursin Rohr) The View Inside / ex Briand Boursin Rohr", which just looked ridiculous really.

Having separate pages for a band that has existed under two (or more) names thus does away with the need to have these unwieldy combined headings, makes a successful search for the original band name possible in the alphabetical listing on PA, and to me is a far more satisfactory way of doing things. Have a look at the way Proggnosis handles the matter if you don't believe me lol, though their method segregates a band's albums over the two pages rather than including all the information on the later band name page (which I feel is a better way of doing things - the old name page just containing a line or two of text and a link to the new one).

Just my thoughts, of course... Embarrassed


Edited by yam yam - September 04 2023 at 08:55
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