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Hemispheres
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 22 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 533
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Posted: December 22 2005 at 22:03 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Hey guys, Punk was created as a reaction against Prog', all their official sites bash Prog', they are against anything lñonger han three minutes or three chords.
I never saw a prog', blues, jazz or pop site wasting their space in writting against the other genres. Yes in forums there's a lot of that, but never in an official site.
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When Dinosaurs Roamed The Earth... |
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Know thine enemy. While Glam at least was proving some light relief from bands who had grown massive like the Stones, Who and Led Zeppelin there were an even more pretentious wave of bands who espoused the view that rock was serious and who were dominating the serious weekly music papers. Prog-Rock was mostly listened to by grubby polytechnic students who wore flares and dufflecoats and never had any girlfriends and who would sit cross-legged at gigs on the floor bonged out of their brains. They would gather in bedsits drinking coffee out of chipped mugs and ponder the meaning of the universe while listening to Yes, Van Der Graaf Generator, Camel, Gentle Giant, Caravan, Greenslade and a thousand others. These people knew what they wanted ..lots of windswept guitar histrionics, gushing key boards, lyrics full of mystical allusions and song titles bearing no relation to the music and almost as long as the music itself ! As you read these you can see why punk had to happen. Weighed own by the weight of its own pretensions the scene was set for someone to point out that the emperor in fact had no clothes on. Read on and learn the horrible truth.......... | |
What serious site would write this crap to promote themselves as the salvation of themusical world? If it wasn't for forums, probably you won't see the word Punk in Progressive sites, because we are sure enough of our taste to worry abouit the rest and waste valuable space in criticizing the rest of the world.
They call us the enemy, most of us don't even care enough about them to consider Punk as an enemy.
Genesis Were a full blown prog-rock band, inspired by musical bluster and arcane philosophies, capable of churning out as much barking nonsense as any of their early Seventies contemporaries, including the magnificently daft Yes. Under the direction of the consummately eccentric Peter Gabriel, Genesis indulged in all manner of theatrical buffoonery and special effects. While the group turned on the pomp and pyrotechnics, Gabriel would nonce around the stage in a variety of costumes as illustrated. The peak of their absolute foolishness came with the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, a virtually incomprehensible narrative about spiritual awakening spread over a double album. beloved of sixth formers with long hair and greycoats who had too much time on their hands.
Emerson, Lake And Palmer. Even the name sounds like a gang of lawyers or estate agents. They were prog rocks most vulgar trawler men. Their first public appearance, at the Isle of Wight Festival was prefaced by a thunderous cannonade loud enough to wake the long time dead. This was an appropriate fanfare for a group that would be become internationally famous for its bombastic extravagance. ELP produced the ugliest music the world has yet to endure "Pictures at an Exhibition", Brain Salad Surgery and even a triple live album of dross. Everything they did as dragged own by the weight of their own bloated pretensions, their vivid idiocy, the stupifying grossness that was their unique contribution to early seventies rock. Tipping over a Hammond and stabbing it with a knife to make distorted sounds does not excitement make. For the punter so far back he can see f**k all it might as well be a baboon jumping down on the keyboards. Unable to come up with anything resembling a decent tune, they regularly vandalised the classics sending several dead Europeans spinning in their graves. The ridiculousness of their music is just so far fetched that you can't help but laugh and wonder at Mark P and Danny Baker who praised them . God ELP were stupid.
Yes . Like Genesis they managed to produce an extra b*****d son to terrorise good taste in the shape of Rick Wakeman. Without doubt the stars of the progressive genre if only for the sheer long windedness of everything they have ever done. The icon for the era has to their magnum opus Tales from Topographic Oceans luckily they made every album identifiable with the godawful Roger Dean designed covers so there was no way you could buy one by accident and you could warn your mum. If by chance you do want to buy them its a credit to Yes that you can buy their whole back catalogue in secondhand record stores for about £5 as people realizing later on in life what sh*te they had bought turned them in their thousands. Topographic Oceans had all of prog rocks defining characteristics in spades. |
| http://www.punk77.co.uk/punkhistory/whendinosaursromaedtheea rth.htm |
How this a$$holes dare to talk about drugs in prog??

Or stupid costumes?

Or idiocy?

What serious musical site will criticize a band to show the world how good they supposedly are?
Punk is in essense anti prog, how can you mix both and believe in the possibility of Prog Punk?
Iván
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Hey Richard Hell And Devo were great in there day maybe if u would actually listen to some of this music before judging it you would no i think the average prog fan could enjoy Richard Hells Blank Generation theres some great guitar playing going on there the same goes for Devo they were higly influenced by Captain Beefheart,Zappa,Krafwerk and others i wouldnt really call them punk though and for there fashion sence who cares there clothes were kind of funny and werent spousto be taken seriously well actually i think there was some sort of social commentary going on there with there concept of de evolution but im not getting into that Rick Wakeman wore stupid clothes too but u probbably love him (im not dissing wakeman)
 
now sid viscuous represents whats wrong with punk even most punks hate him except the trendy ones
i think progpunk can exist because i think punk is about being yourself and not caring what others think so if u mix the two u know alot of people wont like it but if u like it and dont care what others think then in my mind its punk.Punk isnt or shouldnt be about fashion or anarchy it should be about being yourself and not being something youre not
so i think punk shouldnt really be a genre it should be a way of approaching music same with prog
now ive confused myself oh well
thats for u ivan u antipunk Prog Hipster 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: December 22 2005 at 20:57 |
Hey guys, Punk was created as a reaction against Prog', all their official sites bash Prog', they are against anything lñonger han three minutes or three chords.
I never saw a prog', blues, jazz or pop site wasting their space in writting against the other genres. Yes in forums there's a lot of that, but never in an official site.
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When Dinosaurs Roamed The Earth... |
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Know thine enemy. While Glam at least was proving some light relief from bands who had grown massive like the Stones, Who and Led Zeppelin there were an even more pretentious wave of bands who espoused the view that rock was serious and who were dominating the serious weekly music papers. Prog-Rock was mostly listened to by grubby polytechnic students who wore flares and dufflecoats and never had any girlfriends and who would sit cross-legged at gigs on the floor bonged out of their brains. They would gather in bedsits drinking coffee out of chipped mugs and ponder the meaning of the universe while listening to Yes, Van Der Graaf Generator, Camel, Gentle Giant, Caravan, Greenslade and a thousand others. These people knew what they wanted ..lots of windswept guitar histrionics, gushing key boards, lyrics full of mystical allusions and song titles bearing no relation to the music and almost as long as the music itself ! As you read these you can see why punk had to happen. Weighed own by the weight of its own pretensions the scene was set for someone to point out that the emperor in fact had no clothes on. Read on and learn the horrible truth.......... | |
What serious site would write this crap to promote themselves as the salvation of themusical world? If it wasn't for forums, probably you won't see the word Punk in Progressive sites, because we are sure enough of our taste to worry abouit the rest and waste valuable space in criticizing the rest of the world.
They call us the enemy, most of us don't even care enough about them to consider Punk as an enemy.
Genesis Were a full blown prog-rock band, inspired by musical bluster and arcane philosophies, capable of churning out as much barking nonsense as any of their early Seventies contemporaries, including the magnificently daft Yes. Under the direction of the consummately eccentric Peter Gabriel, Genesis indulged in all manner of theatrical buffoonery and special effects. While the group turned on the pomp and pyrotechnics, Gabriel would nonce around the stage in a variety of costumes as illustrated. The peak of their absolute foolishness came with the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, a virtually incomprehensible narrative about spiritual awakening spread over a double album. beloved of sixth formers with long hair and greycoats who had too much time on their hands.
Emerson, Lake And Palmer. Even the name sounds like a gang of lawyers or estate agents. They were prog rocks most vulgar trawler men. Their first public appearance, at the Isle of Wight Festival was prefaced by a thunderous cannonade loud enough to wake the long time dead. This was an appropriate fanfare for a group that would be become internationally famous for its bombastic extravagance. ELP produced the ugliest music the world has yet to endure "Pictures at an Exhibition", Brain Salad Surgery and even a triple live album of dross. Everything they did as dragged own by the weight of their own bloated pretensions, their vivid idiocy, the stupifying grossness that was their unique contribution to early seventies rock. Tipping over a Hammond and stabbing it with a knife to make distorted sounds does not excitement make. For the punter so far back he can see f**k all it might as well be a baboon jumping down on the keyboards. Unable to come up with anything resembling a decent tune, they regularly vandalised the classics sending several dead Europeans spinning in their graves. The ridiculousness of their music is just so far fetched that you can't help but laugh and wonder at Mark P and Danny Baker who praised them . God ELP were stupid.
Yes . Like Genesis they managed to produce an extra b*****d son to terrorise good taste in the shape of Rick Wakeman. Without doubt the stars of the progressive genre if only for the sheer long windedness of everything they have ever done. The icon for the era has to their magnum opus Tales from Topographic Oceans luckily they made every album identifiable with the godawful Roger Dean designed covers so there was no way you could buy one by accident and you could warn your mum. If by chance you do want to buy them its a credit to Yes that you can buy their whole back catalogue in secondhand record stores for about £5 as people realizing later on in life what sh*te they had bought turned them in their thousands. Topographic Oceans had all of prog rocks defining characteristics in spades. |
| http://www.punk77.co.uk/punkhistory/whendinosaursromaedtheea rth.htm |
How this a$$holes dare to talk about drugs in prog??

Or stupid costumes?

Or idiocy?

What serious musical site will criticize a band to show the world how good they supposedly are?
Punk is in essense anti prog, how can you mix both and believe in the possibility of Prog Punk?
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Rashikal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 07 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 546
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Posted: December 22 2005 at 18:32 |
a good punk-prog band is The Fall of Troy.
they are extremely skilled and they use very unique time signatures.
theyre coming out with a 6 part song called "ghost ship" where each
member of the band will play a character in the story. i would call the
fall of troy hardcore/prog. they sond like at the drive-in on speed
with the jamming solos of the mars volta.
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Hemispheres
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 22 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 533
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Posted: December 22 2005 at 17:55 |
Moogtron III wrote:
Dick Heath wrote:
spo1977 wrote:
The Damned is great punk.
Check out Machine Gun Ettiquette, Black Album, Strawberries, Phantasmagoria. Is it prog? no, but who cares?
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Captain Sensible is on record as a devoted Soft Machine fan
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And he makes some great music himself. Like his 1989 album Revolution Now! with even a 15 minute - epic! One of the many cross-fertilizations between prog and punk.
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What about on the Damned Black Album they did a 17 minute epic called curtain call but honestly i didnt really enjoy maybe if i gave it more time but i think machine gun ettiquette is one of the best albums of all time and definetly the best early british punk album imo that album has more psyhc influences like early Soft Machine,Love,The Doors amd other boys i love that album you gys should check it out if you havent already
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: December 22 2005 at 17:13 |
Dick Heath wrote:
spo1977 wrote:
The Damned is great punk.
Check out Machine Gun Ettiquette, Black Album, Strawberries, Phantasmagoria. Is it prog? no, but who cares?
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Captain Sensible is on record as a devoted Soft Machine fan
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And he makes some great music himself. Like his 1989 album Revolution Now! with even a 15 minute - epic! One of the many cross-fertilizations between prog and punk.
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Rosescar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 07 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 715
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Posted: December 22 2005 at 17:09 |
Punk is the most progressive of any genre. Regression is a type of progression too.
Anyway, punk itself isn't so bad (though not anything I'd listen to often). Pop-punk is terrible.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: December 21 2005 at 14:27 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Dick Heath wrote:
Dick Heath wrote:
[QUOTE=ANDREW]
Absolutely not!
Sorry but i don't agree with you.
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And check out who is supporting John Lydon on post-punk PIL's Compact Disc.
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oooh oohh...sir...sir......I know this......its Steve Vai sir!
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Problem is the liner note give you zilch - and it is Lydon least favourite album. However, with Vai, add Ginger Baker (and a couple rumours suggest Tony Williams), Jonas Hellborg - e.g. part of the musical collective Bill Laswell (i.e. Compact Disc's producer), had on his label Axiom and Jonas Hellborg had on his label Day Eight Music! In other words, musicians you don't normally associate with punk!
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: December 21 2005 at 13:09 |
T-BONE wrote:
what ever slim ass country you crawled out of |
Shut it.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: December 21 2005 at 11:22 |
Dick Heath wrote:
Dick Heath wrote:
[QUOTE=ANDREW]
Absolutely not!
Sorry but i don't agree with you.
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And check out who is supporting John Lydon on post-punk PIL's Compact Disc.
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oooh oohh...sir...sir......I know this......its Steve Vai sir!
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T-BONE
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 77
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Posted: December 21 2005 at 11:17 |
to Rashikal::::go back to what ever slim ass country you crawled out of.punk rock was a big part of music history. but you wounldnt know that because you mother was too busy wiping your dumb ass..............
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krusty
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1777
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Posted: December 21 2005 at 08:51 |
Syzygy wrote:
Hemispheres wrote:
Prog Punk Bands
Pere Ubu
The Cardiacs
Wire
Swell Maps
The Stranglers
The Pop Group
The Fall
The Birthday Party
Television
Nomeansno
Primus
Inner City Unit
Butthole Surfers
Listen To These Bands And Tell Me There Not Progresive
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All of them a lot more interesting than anything released by Yes, Genesis or Pink Floyd after 1980.
As for prog punk - try Ruins, who blend hard core punk with prog musicianship to amazing effect. |
Hehehe... Totally agree!!!!  And as can be seen by Dick Heaths posts exactly how fine the line is between various genres of music.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: December 21 2005 at 06:25 |
Dick Heath wrote:
ANDREW wrote:
Absolutely not!
Sorry but i don't agree with you.
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Sorry Andrew, such comments piss me off and provoke the reaction: you haven't heard enough prog or understand what it is about! Prog fans shouldn't be so close minded - prog musicians aren't:
Live in Concert [Live] The Stranglers & Friends (Artist) 1. Introduction - Jet Black, The Stranglers 2. (Get A) Grip (On Yourself) - Hazel O'Connor, Robert Smith, The Stranglers 3. Hanging Around - Hazel O'Connor, Robert Smith, The Stranglers 4. Tank - Robert Fripp, Peter Hammill, The Stranglers 5. Threatened - Robert Fripp, The Stranglers 6. Toiler on the Sea - Phil Daniels, Robert Fripp, The Stranglers 7. Raven - Basil Gabbidon, Peter Hammill, The Stranglers 8. Dead Loss Angeles - Phil Daniels, Wilko Johnson, The Stranglers 9. Nice 'N' Sleazy - Basil Gabbidon, The Stranglers, Nicky Tesco, Nik Turner 10. Bring on the Nubiles - Richard Jobson, Wilko Johnson, The Stranglers 11. Peaches - Ian Dury, Wilko Johnson, Davey Payne, The Stranglers, Toyah Wilcox 12. Bear Cage - Ian Dury, Mathieu Hartley, Wilko Johnson, Davey Payne, The Stranglers, 13. Duchess - The Stranglers, Toyah Wilcox 14. No More Heroes - Richard Jobson, The Stranglers 15. Five Minutes - Richard Jobson, The Stranglers, Larry Wallis 16. Something Better Change - Steve Hillage, The Stranglers, Toyah Wilcox 17. Down in the Sewer - Jake Burns, Jake Burns & The Big Wheel, Phil Daniels, Ian Dury, Robert Fripp, Basil Gabbidon, Peter Hammill, The Stranglers
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Just reminded myself that the late great Ian Drury, although dubbed 'punk pub rock' originally, continued the traditions of the British musical hall into pop and rock, very much as Genesis and many other prog bands did. He and his co-writer, were also heaviliy influenced by jazz: Sex & Drugs & Rock'n'Roll, has a bass riff directly lifted from an Ornette Coleman tune.
Further. Chris Spedding, from being in a seminal jazz rock group Nucleus, formed Sharks (rock blues with a West Indian feel) with Andy Frazer (ex. Free), is found on Roy Harper's progressist album HQ (having replaced Dave Gilmour - Bill Bruford is there too) and then his session work took him to work with the Sex Pistols. It's claimed the first single by that band released, in fact has an opening riff invented by Spedding. Spedding was attracted by punk to the extend he worked with the Vibrators and had a few hits himself, e.g Get Outta My Pagoda.
XTC appeared on the back on punk (Making Plans For Nigel was a major punk hit in the UK), and look at the praise they get on this site. The Police also appeared with the rise of punk, and look at their roots: Soft Machine, Curved Air and a NE English touring jazz rock group - they evolved regatta d'blanc (aka 'blue eyed reggae') at the height of punk, a form of which Rush experimental with after Police folded.
And check out who is supporting John Lydon on post-punk PIL's Compact Disc.
Edited by Dick Heath
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Hemispheres
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 22 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 533
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Posted: December 20 2005 at 22:11 |
Syzygy wrote:
Hemispheres wrote:
Prog Punk Bands
Pere Ubu
The Cardiacs
Wire
Swell Maps
The Stranglers
The Pop Group
The Fall
The Birthday Party
Television
Nomeansno
Primus
Inner City Unit
Butthole Surfers
Listen To These Bands And Tell Me There Not Progresive
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All of them a lot more interesting than anything released by Yes, Genesis or Pink Floyd after 1980.
As for prog punk - try Ruins, who blend hard core punk with prog musicianship to amazing effect.
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I Agree these bands are more progresive as in progressing music to something new and innovative than 70% of the bands listed on this site sorry it is true
does anybody hear like Crass i wouldnt say they are prog at all but they have a kind of noise experimental side and i think some of it reminds me of Gong for some reason
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: December 20 2005 at 20:00 |
spo1977 wrote:
The Damned is great punk.
Check out Machine Gun Ettiquette, Black Album, Strawberries, Phantasmagoria. Is it prog? no, but who cares?
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Captain Sensible is on record as a devoted Soft Machine fan
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: December 20 2005 at 19:58 |
ANDREW wrote:
Absolutely not!
Sorry but i don't agree with you. |
Sorry Andrew, such comments piss me off and provoke the reaction:
you haven't heard enough prog or understand what it is about!
Prog fans shouldn't be so close minded - prog musicians aren't:
Live in Concert [Live] The Stranglers & Friends (Artist)
1. Introduction - Jet Black, The Stranglers
2. (Get A) Grip (On Yourself) - Hazel O'Connor, Robert Smith, The Stranglers
3. Hanging Around - Hazel O'Connor, Robert Smith, The Stranglers
4. Tank - Robert Fripp, Peter Hammill, The Stranglers
5. Threatened - Robert Fripp, The Stranglers
6. Toiler on the Sea - Phil Daniels, Robert Fripp, The Stranglers
7. Raven - Basil Gabbidon, Peter Hammill, The Stranglers
8. Dead Loss Angeles - Phil Daniels, Wilko Johnson, The Stranglers
9. Nice 'N' Sleazy - Basil Gabbidon, The Stranglers, Nicky Tesco, Nik Turner
10. Bring on the Nubiles - Richard Jobson, Wilko Johnson, The Stranglers
11. Peaches - Ian Dury, Wilko Johnson, Davey Payne, The Stranglers, Toyah Wilcox
12. Bear Cage - Ian Dury, Mathieu Hartley, Wilko Johnson, Davey Payne, The Stranglers,
13. Duchess - The Stranglers, Toyah Wilcox
14. No More Heroes - Richard Jobson, The Stranglers
15. Five Minutes - Richard Jobson, The Stranglers, Larry Wallis
16. Something Better Change - Steve Hillage, The Stranglers, Toyah Wilcox
17.
Down in the Sewer - Jake Burns, Jake Burns & The Big Wheel, Phil
Daniels, Ian Dury, Robert Fripp, Basil Gabbidon, Peter Hammill, The Stranglers
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7129
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Posted: December 20 2005 at 05:14 |
Hemispheres wrote:
Prog Punk Bands
Pere Ubu
The Cardiacs
Wire
Swell Maps
The Stranglers
The Pop Group
The Fall
The Birthday Party
Television
Nomeansno
Primus
Inner City Unit
Butthole Surfers
Listen To These Bands And Tell Me There Not Progresive
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All of them a lot more interesting than anything released by Yes, Genesis or Pink Floyd after 1980.
As for prog punk - try Ruins, who blend hard core punk with prog musicianship to amazing effect.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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Retroventuremod
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 12 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 66
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Posted: December 20 2005 at 04:02 |
Gentle Ronnie wrote:
matti meikäläin wrote:
if joy division is punk it must be progressive punk. any way it is amazing band, perhaps more 80' s new wave. mars volta has some punk influences especially on de loused in the comatorium |
They are Post Punk, which is hardly the same thing.
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Can someone explain this post-punk thing, I dont quite get it. a lot of stuff i listen to is deemed post-punk, like I dont get it at all whats so post and what makes it punk?
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I asked Bobby Dylan
I asked the Beatles
I asked Timothy Leary
But he couldn't help me either
They call me the seeker
THE WHO!
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Gentle Tull
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 13 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 518
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Posted: December 19 2005 at 14:33 |
Someone earlier mentioned Primus as prog punk!!! Maybe prog, but deffinitly not punk! Anyway, I don't think there can be prog punk, because if it was really complex and long or anything, it would no longer be punk.
I hate punk, by the way.
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Cygnus X-1
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 06 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 653
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Posted: December 19 2005 at 14:04 |
I enjoy some punk music like the Clash or the Sex Pistols. have to say there is no such thing as punk prog.
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spo1977
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 285
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Posted: December 17 2005 at 23:17 |
The Damned is great punk.
Check out Machine Gun Ettiquette, Black Album, Strawberries, Phantasmagoria. Is it prog? no, but who cares?
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