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Moatilliatta 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3083
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 Posted: January 13 2006 at 18:18 |
 Man Overboard wrote:
Moatilliatta wrote:
Explain to me how Falling into Infinity is good. It does have some commedable material, but as long as I can remember, it lacked the top-notch musicianship throughout much of the record, and it was just boring. Maybe it's time I tried again. |
Progressive rock isn't so much about virtuosity as it is creativity... songs like Lines In The Sand and Trial Of Tears represent some of DT's most creative ideas and execution. |
True, but Dream Theater has always incorporated unmatched virtuosity into their music, while still being very creative. But I guess it is only one album, and like I said, they reinvent themselves every record. That album was just one of their experiements. I've probably been viewing it the wrong way. Though now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think it's a very consistent record. Songs like "You Not Me" and "Burning My Soul" aren't creative at all.
Edited by Moatilliatta
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www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
 
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21817
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 18:17 |
Man Overboard wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
My issue with Octavarium is that it is the album where they rip off other bands most blatantly, yet some people say that it is their favorite DT album or even the only DT album they like. And at the same time an album like ToT where they do few ripping off (except Metallica) gets bashed.
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Heh, yeah... though listen to the intro to Endless Sacrifice, then the intro to Michael Jackson's "Give In To Me" and proceed to cry. 
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I have 14 Michael jackson albums (Napster) but not that song ... so I can't comment. But I'm willing to bet that the similarity is accidental.
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 18:10 |
Moatilliatta wrote:
Explain to me how Falling into Infinity is
good. It does have some commedable material, but as long as I can
remember, it lacked the top-notch musicianship throughout much of the
record, and it was just boring. Maybe it's time I tried again. |
Progressive rock isn't so much about virtuosity as it is creativity...
songs like Lines In The Sand and Trial Of Tears represent some of DT's most creative ideas and execution.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Man Overboard wrote:
My main issue with Dream
Theater is that they have this deep, deep love for lifting riffs from
other bands. Octavarium (the track) is meant to reference lots of
bands, that's true, but does the "big ending" have to be the same "big
ending" that Kansas' 'The Wall' uses?  |
My issue with Octavarium is that it is the album where they rip off
other bands most blatantly, yet some people say that it is their
favorite DT album or even the only DT album they like. And at the same
time an album like ToT where they do few ripping off (except Metallica)
gets bashed.
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Heh, yeah... though listen to the intro to Endless Sacrifice,
then the intro to Michael Jackson's "Give In To Me" and proceed to cry.
Edited by Man Overboard
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21817
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 18:09 |
Man Overboard wrote:
My main issue with Dream Theater is that they have this deep, deep love for lifting riffs from other bands. Octavarium (the track) is meant to reference lots of bands, that's true, but does the "big ending" have to be the same "big ending" that Kansas' 'The Wall' uses? |
My issue with Octavarium is that it is the album where they rip off other bands most blatantly, yet some people say that it is their favorite DT album or even the only DT album they like. And at the same time an album like ToT where they do few ripping off (except Metallica) gets bashed.
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Moatilliatta
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3083
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 18:07 |
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Explain to me how Falling into Infinity is good. It does have some commedable material, but as long as I can remember, it lacked the top-notch musicianship throughout much of the record, and it was just boring. Maybe it's time I tried again.
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www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 18:06 |
My main issue with Dream Theater is that they have this deep, deep love
for lifting riffs from other bands. Octavarium (the track) is
meant to reference lots of bands, that's true, but does the "big
ending" have to be the same "big ending" that Kansas' 'The Wall'
uses?
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Moatilliatta
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3083
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 18:03 |
I can't say much about Queensryche or Fates Warning. I never really liked either of them, and consequently don't follow them. I do like some of their material, but I can't give a solid opinion on what they're doing or have done.
Dream Theater, however, I can. I think they are on a roll. None of the albums they've put out with Rudess have been bad. Dream Theater nearly reinvent themselves every record, sound-wise, but their albums still maintain the Dream Theater sound.
Train of Thought seems to get a lot of heat from fans, but I love it. It's a good, intense, album. The album has some of their finest displays of technical precision. Even if you don't like the songs, you have to appreciate the jams on that album.
Edited by Moatilliatta
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www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 18:03 |
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Falling Into Infinity contains some of the best tracks Dream Theater have ever written; it's a personal favorite of mine.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21817
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 17:59 |
Moatilliatta wrote:
aapatsos wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
Dream theater is better than ever!
I mean just look at the first releases...images and words and awake and falling into infinity...those where fairly eh bad...but finally they seemed to have turned on Scenes from a memory album and making cool music which just shows from albums like Octavarium, Sdoit and tot! 
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are we talking about the same albums???? 
images and words and awake......fairly eh bad.....?
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Yea, how could you say that? I agree that Falling into Infinity is a flop, but the other two you listed are great albums.
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Falling into Infinity is underrated. I would prefer it to Octavarium anytime.
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Moatilliatta
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3083
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 17:52 |
aapatsos wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
Dream theater is better than ever!
I mean just look at the first releases...images and words and awake and falling into infinity...those where fairly eh bad...but finally they seemed to have turned on Scenes from a memory album and making cool music which just shows from albums like Octavarium, Sdoit and tot!
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are we talking about the same albums????
images and words and awake......fairly eh bad.....?
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Yea, how could you say that? I agree that Falling into Infinity is a flop, but the other two you listed are great albums.
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www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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TheLamb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 18 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 17:37 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
TheLamb wrote:
Scenes from a Memory is the only truly great DT album. The albums before it all have great moments - but that's not enough to make a great album.
After Scenes came 6DOIT, which is very "Interesting" but I wouldn't say it's a good album. Train of Thought has Stream of Consciousness which is mind-blowing and In the Name of God which is fairly OK but not outstanding, the rest of Train of Thought is bad. Dream Theater have never sounded more like Metallica ... Their not very good at being "angry" either! Octavarium is bad too, except for the title track which is very good.
I'd definitely say they are on their way down.
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Stream of Consciousness is my 2nd least favorite song from ToT ... only Honor Thy Father is worse. But they're both solid 3s in terms of the prog archives rating system ...
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Honor Thy Father is horrid. Probably one of DT's worst songs ever, if not THE worst one.. Steam of Consciousness though is one of the band's best songs. I can't accept what your saying, I know my opinion is just an opinion, but seriously dude, its Stream of Consciousness! It's GOOD!!! and even if it's not one of the band's "better songs", you must admit it's the best on ToT, Endless Sacrifice and As I Am are not much of compotition, Dying Soul is pretty bad aswel. In the Name of God is the only song that might be considered by some sober people to be better but it's still not that outstanding and SoC IS!
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 17:09 |
IcedSabbath wrote:
Queensryche = Not prog to my ears.
Dream Theater = Crappy, fake "metal" chug riffs and annoying vocals...They were never good to begin with, IMO. Train of Thought is one of the most heinous things I've ever listened to, and what I've heard of Octavarium isn't so hot either.
If you're talking about the decline of prog metal bands, you must also mention Opeth. Their last album, from what I've heard, is pretty weak!
The only Fates Warning I have is Perfect Symmetry, and it's killer; I'm not going to comment on their latest output.
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chill out man, I think you have to find some more convincing arguments... 
maybe also you haven't read the topic thoroughly, we're talking about the three major prog-metal bands (well IMO and of many others), Opeth were not here in 1983, 1986 or 1989......
Ed, are you referring to this one?
Edited by aapatsos
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 17:05 |
xjester wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
Dream theater is better than ever!
I mean just look at the first releases...images and words and awake and falling into infinity...those where fairly eh bad...but finally they seemed to have turned on Scenes from a memory album and making cool music which just shows from albums like Octavarium, Sdoit and tot!
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Images & Words was bad? what kind of crack are you on? Is it pink and flavored, because even normal crack couldent get me to think I&W was anything but spectacular, so the crack would inherently be pink.
And as for Octavarium, its not great, its not even that good, but you havr to admit 2 things.
1.The concept is deep and intricite
2.Its better than FII.
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well done mate 
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21817
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 16:14 |
pogoowner wrote:
aapatsos wrote:
yes, we do have Symphony X, but Planet X.... |
Planet X is infinitely better than Symphony X.
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"infinitesimally" is more like it.
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Rising Force
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 09 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 439
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 16:05 |
pogoowner wrote:
aapatsos wrote:
yes, we do have Symphony X, but Planet X.... |
Planet X is infinitely better than Symphony X. |
It's close between both bands, for me. But I like Planet X more, too.
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pogoowner
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 29 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 127
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 16:03 |
aapatsos wrote:
yes, we do have Symphony X, but Planet X.... |
Planet X is infinitely better than Symphony X.
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And it might as well be raining, 'cause the sunlight hurts his eyes,
And his ears will never hear the children's cries
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 15:49 |
Like in a marketplace... Everybody is shouting and trying to force their argument through the rest. Great Job! Talk bout ruining a good thread
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IcedSabbath
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 11 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 87
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 15:25 |
Queensryche = Not prog to my ears.
Dream Theater = Crappy, fake "metal" chug riffs and annoying vocals...They were never good to begin with, IMO. Train of Thought is one of the most heinous things I've ever listened to, and what I've heard of Octavarium isn't so hot either.
If you're talking about the decline of prog metal bands, you must also mention Opeth. Their last album, from what I've heard, is pretty weak!
The only Fates Warning I have is Perfect Symmetry, and it's killer; I'm not going to comment on their latest output.
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Rising Force
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 09 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 439
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 15:24 |
aapatsos wrote:
Rising Force wrote:
It's ok, we have Symphony X and Planet X now. |
yes, we do have Symphony X, but Planet X.... |
Have you ever heard Planet X, man? They are crazyyyyy.
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Rising Force
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 09 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 439
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Posted: January 13 2006 at 15:23 |
Suki wrote:
Rising Force wrote:
It's ok, we have Symphony X and Planet X now. |
I agree with the Symphony X remark, but I 'strangely' don't see why I haven't read even one bad review on Planet X. I've heard Moonbabies, I listed to it only one time and it was already enough. I hate the sound of the keyboard, the guitar solos bores me to death and the keyboard solos are that great either.. I however cannot deny that they are pretty creative.
another good metal band which deserves to be mentioned here is Pain of Salvation.
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It sounds like you should listen to Moonbabies some more, IMO, because there are a lot of awesome guitar and keyboard work on that album. Ignotus Per Ignotium has one of the most beautiful guitar solos ever (the solo around eight and a half minutes into the track), also, heavy riffs and a kick ass drum solo. The Noble Savage also has some pretty good solos and riffs from T-Mac. Micronesia has some pretty good keyboard on it. And there's some sick guitar and keyboard work in Moonbabies and 70 Vir. And then there's some really complex stuff, like Ataraxia, Interlude in Milan, and Ground Zero. It's a space metal masterpiece. However, I understand if you don't like it, 'cause Planet X is definetly not for everybody. But Moonbabies is more fusion oriented and all around tighter CD, while Universe is more agressive and has more hooks, so maybe you'd like that more.
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"Fall" of the great prog-metal bands?
