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Philéas 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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 Posted: August 23 2006 at 15:05 |
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I'd like to say that Fred's and any other person's preaching that
cannabis causes lung cancer and brain damage is utter nonsense. A
recent scientifical study proved that cannabis does not cause lung
cancer, and other studies have proven that cannabis does not cause
brain damage (in fact, THC is very similair to a chemical we naturally
have in our brains). Furthermore, cannabis isn't physically addictive,
and when used with moderation, cannabis is actually less dangerous than
normal cigarettes and alcohol.
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 14:35 |
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Well, doing acid today is quite risky IMO, as you're not sure about the product's purity.
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Zoso
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 501
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 13:15 |
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I smoke weed regularly and have done shrooms and salvia, but I think I'm going to wait on acid.
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oliverstoned
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:56 |
 Sean Trane wrote:
Fred,
Doctors who don't smoke don't know how hard it is to stop smoking and the pure joy of swallowing smoke. >> Havannas are including on the sheer joy of swallowing smoke as you do noyt even inhale it >> like fake Clinton did.
Drinking responasbly ??? just like you can smoke Mary Jane responsably as well >> less addictive too.
Driving skills while stoned (on weed) are also affected, but contrary to alcohol, the driver is usually driving slower than speed limits. not the case for alcohol. Big diff in case of an accident.
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Indeed, with alcohol, you have a false control's impression.
You're intoxicated by the official speech.
Edited by oliverstoned - August 23 2006 at 12:58
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:54 |
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"drug addiction starts with a single hit"
Or a single sip, a single legal pill...
"and scientists have proved smoking dope affects driving skills"
Don't you read my answers?
Canna--> increase car accident's risk per 2.
Alcohol--> increase car accident's risk per 8.
(Latest conclusions from A GOVERNMENTAL STUDY ORDERED BY THE PROHIBITIVE GOVERNMENT ITSELF).
"abuse of anything will kill you"
-->yes but some product's abuses have terrible consequences on the whole community.
"but are you saying all prog musicians are on dope, and need to smoke dope to write and play good music? as i said in a previous thread Geaorge Martin scrapped a lot of Beatles stuff because their playing was affected by smoking dope, and some musicians were sacked from bands for the same reason?"
My answer is Yes.
You like the Beatles?
Their music has completely changed (for the best) since "Revolver" when they discovered psychedelics.
They came from frivolous pop music (they were under legal amphetamines at the beggining )to a far more progressive music, thanks to lucidogens.
Edited by oliverstoned - August 23 2006 at 12:54
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20590
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:41 |
Fred,
Doctors who don't smoke don't know how hard it is to stop smoking and the pure joy of swallowing smoke. >> Havannas are including on the sheer joy of swallowing smoke as you do noyt even inhale it >> like fake Clinton did.
Drinking responasbly ??? just like you can smoke Mary Jane responsably as well >> less addictive too.
Driving skills while stoned (on weed) are also affected, but contrary to alcohol, the driver is usually driving slower than speed limits. not the case for alcohol. Big diff in case of an accident.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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mystic fred
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Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:33 |
oliverstoned wrote:
mystic fred wrote:
sorry to sound like your auntie on this subject, i am not immature, i have no teenage sons, but i have spent the last several years of my working life (as a security officer) discouraging hundreds of teenagers from using drugs, however soft. Fair enough there are cigarettes, which i dissuade youngsters from using but they still do, and the RESPONSIBLE use of alchohol is ok, i.e. not drinking and driving/bingeing for starters. What really irritates is so called responsible adults advocating soft drugs, even the Police let us down by re-classifying cannabis, but it does lead to schizophrenia and brain damage, believe me i've known people affected by it and many (but not all) move onto harder drugs, dealers, criminality etc.etc. anyone remotely interested in rock knows the dangers of "experimentation" through what happened to many including Syd Barret for instance, who was a heavy user. Other members of Floyd were worried about him at the time and eventually sacked him from the band, i love psychedelic music such as Hawkwind (see my reviews!) and have never felt the need to take drugs to appreciate them. There have been many oppportunities, i'm glad i never took them. That's all i have to say further on this subject and that's my opinion, agree or disagree. [IMG]height=17 alt="Stern Smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>
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You can't talk about weed or others products, cause obviously you've never tried it.
You would not like that someone comes and tell you that drinking one glass of wine or beer will ruin your life, whereas this person has never drink a drop of alcohol.
i am perfectly able to talk about these "products" oliver, i have seen their effects, i don't have to try them. do doctors have to smoke to advise patients against lung cancer, or become alchoholics to warn patients about liver disease?
Moreover, what bugs me in your speech is that you exagerate cannabis drawback effects: it only leads to schizophrenia "1%" of the people having such tendency. And the relationship between canna and schizo has not been proved yet.
drug addiction starts with a single hit
Alcohol abuse involves not only terrible physical effects, but also psychological diseases.
Alcohol addiction and "delirium tremens" are terrible things. Many people have their life totally ruined by alcohol, when they don't ruined other people life because of it.
Only car accident caused by alcohol kills thousands of people and COSTS MUCH MORE TO SOCIETY than canna.
yes agreed........abuse of anything will kill you. most adults drink responsibly and it will not become a problem, there are laws against drivling and driving, and scientists have proved smoking dope affects driving skills.
And moreover, may i remind you that we're on an adult site, and that psychedelic subtances are a foundation of psychedelic/progressive music, that you like it or not.
so all this wonderful music is all a result of dope - to a degree it is, that is well documented, but are you saying all prog musicians are on dope, and need to smoke dope to write and play good music? as i said in a previous thread Geaorge Martin scrapped a lot of Beatles stuff because their playing was affected by smoking dope, and some musicians were sacked from bands for the same reason?
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 Prog Archives Tour Van 
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:31 |
Well, eventually it's rather 20 000! 
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oliverstoned
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:28 |
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Hehe, during 13 years of daily use, i precise!
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:26 |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 10:57 |
mystic fred wrote:
sorry to sound like your auntie on this subject, i am not immature, i have no teenage sons, but i have spent the last several years of my working life (as a security officer) discouraging hundreds of teenagers from using drugs, however soft. Fair enough there are cigarettes, which i dissuade youngsters from using but they still do, and the RESPONSIBLE use of alchohol is ok, i.e. not drinking and driving/bingeing for starters. What really irritates is so called responsible adults advocating soft drugs, even the Police let us down by re-classifying cannabis, but it does lead to schizophrenia and brain damage, believe me i've known people affected by it and many (but not all) move onto harder drugs, dealers, criminality etc.etc. anyone remotely interested in rock knows the dangers of "experimentation" through what happened to many including Syd Barret for instance, who was a heavy user. Other members of Floyd were worried about him at the time and eventually sacked him from the band, i love psychedelic music such as Hawkwind (see my reviews!) and have never felt the need to take drugs to appreciate them. There have been many oppportunities, i'm glad i never took them. That's all i have to say further on this subject and that's my opinion, agree or disagree. [IMG]height=17 alt="Stern Smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>
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You can't talk about weed or others products, cause obviously you've never tried it.
You would not like if someone comes and tell you that drinking one glass of wine or beer will ruin your life, whereas this person has never drink a drop of alcohol.
Moreover, what bugs me in your speech is that you exagerate cannabis drawback effects: it only leads to schizophrenia "1%" of the people having such tendency. And the relationship between canna and schizo has not been proved yet.
Alcohol abuse involves not only terrible physical effects, but also psychological diseases.
Alcohol addiction and "delirium tremens" are terrible things. Many people have their life totally ruined by alcohol, when they don't ruined other people life because of it.
Only car accident caused by alcohol kills thousands of people and COSTS MUCH MORE TO SOCIETY than canna.
And moreover, may i remind you that we're on an adult site, and that psychedelic subtances are a foundation of psychedelic/progressive music, that you like it or not.
Edited by oliverstoned - August 23 2006 at 12:29
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 10:47 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
oliverstoned wrote:
It's rather the fact that it's forbidden that makes -not only- youth wants to transgress the prohibition.
-There has been a huge rise of alcohol comsuption during the prohibitive years in the USA.
-France is the EU country where young smokes the more pot whereas it's the more prohibitive country, and Netherlands, the freer, has one of the lower rate of young canna consumers in EU.
Also, french government diabolizes canna but allows very dangerous psychotropic "medications" to please the pharmaceutic mafia.
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I have to say I agree 100% with you, even if I've never taken drugs or been interested in taking them. Italy has very strict laws about drugs, but this has not helped discourage people from using them - especially as regards extremely dangerous synthetic drugs such as Ecstasy. Anyway, I am completely against any kind of prohibition, as I feel it is stupid and hypocritical. After all, everyone is free to go to a supermarket and buy all the bottles of wine and spirits available, and no one would bat an eyelid - far from that! Besides, you are perfectly right about "legal" drugs, such as antidepressants or tranquillisers, which are often prescribed by doctors without due care. I know of at least two people who have almost been turned into vegetables by heavy use of such legally available drugs. |
Indeed, some people on Prozac heard "voices" and this very dangerous product induces addiction and creates an artificial depressive syndrom, which adds itself to the depression the patients are intially suffering from.
After 15000 joints and many experiments, i've never heard "voices"...-which is not to say that it's not dangerous at all-.
Edited by oliverstoned - August 23 2006 at 11:49
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man@arms
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 31 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 10:40 |
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Live and let live. For nearly as long as mankind has walked this planet we have found ways to get intoxicated. Drugs will never go away and for every one person you might be able to convince not to do them, many others will indulge. This will never change. I personally find some drugs in moderation to be beneficial, but I realize that whatever I may experience someone else might react differently to. But, you won't know until you try. Don't be a drug virgin.
Edited by man@arms - August 23 2006 at 10:41
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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
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Points: 24439
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 10:31 |
oliverstoned wrote:
It's rather the fact that it's forbidden that makes -not only- youth wants to transgress the prohibition.
-There has been a huge rise of alcohol comsuption during the prohibitive years in the USA.
-France is the EU country where young smokes the more pot whereas it's the more prohibitive country, and Netherlands, the freer, has one of the lower rate of young canna consumers in EU.
Also, french government diabolizes canna but allows very dangerous psychotropic "medications" to please the pharmaceutic mafia.
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I have to say I agree 100% with you, even if I've never taken drugs or been interested in taking them. Italy has very strict laws about drugs, but this has not helped discourage people from using them - especially as regards extremely dangerous synthetic drugs such as Ecstasy. Anyway, I am completely against any kind of prohibition, as I feel it is stupid and hypocritical. After all, everyone is free to go to a supermarket and buy all the bottles of wine and spirits available, and no one would bat an eyelid - far from that! Besides, you are perfectly right about "legal" drugs, such as antidepressants or tranquillisers, which are often prescribed by doctors without due care. I know of at least two people who have almost been turned into vegetables by heavy use of such legally available drugs.
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 10:20 |
sorry to sound like your auntie on this subject, i am not immature, i have no teenage sons, but i have spent the last several years of my working life (as a security officer) discouraging hundreds of teenagers from using drugs, however soft. Fair enough there are cigarettes, which i dissuade youngsters from using but they still do, and the RESPONSIBLE use of alchohol is ok, i.e. not drinking and driving/bingeing for starters. What really irritates is so called responsible adults advocating soft drugs, even the Police let us down by re-classifying cannabis, but it does lead to schizophrenia and brain damage, believe me i've known people affected by it and many (but not all) move onto harder drugs, dealers, criminality etc.etc. anyone remotely interested in rock knows the dangers of "experimentation" through what happened to many including Syd Barret for instance, who was a heavy user. Other members of Floyd were worried about him at the time and eventually sacked him from the band, i love psychedelic music such as Hawkwind (see my reviews!) and have never felt the need to take drugs to appreciate them. There have been many oppportunities, i'm glad i never took them. That's all i have to say further on this subject and that's my opinion, agree or disagree. 
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Prog Archives Tour Van
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 09:08 |
oliverstoned wrote:
Just say Know! |
Indeed, sufficient knowledge is the key to "successful" usage.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 09:06 |
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Just say Know!
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 09:03 |
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I'd like to pop in and say that for me, who has yet to try anything
"worse" than weed, all these tales, good or bad, are very informative
and benefitial. There are some things you just can't read in books, and
I'm grateful that this thread is here. I try to get as complete a
picture as possible of what the effects of a drug will be like before I
actually try it. I'm very cautious, and I need every advice I can get.
I am personally interested in LSD or mushrooms because of all the good
things I've heard you can experience during the "trip". However, I am
also highly aware of the dangers of drugs in any shape or form. That
includes both alcohol and caffeine, MysticFred.
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 09:01 |
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It's rather the fact that it's forbidden that makes -not only- youth wants to transgress the prohibition.
-There has been a huge rise of alcohol comsuption during the prohibitive years in the USA.
-France is the EU country where young smokes the more pot whereas it's the more prohibitive country, and Netherlands, the freer, has one of the lower rate of young canna consumers in EU.
Also, french government diabolizes canna but allows very dangerous psychotropic "medications" to please the pharmaceutic mafia.
Edited by oliverstoned - August 23 2006 at 09:02
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oliverstoned
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 08:55 |
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I don't believe in the escalate theory:
Virtually all junkies who "started" with pot, experimented alcohol and glue before. So is alcohol a first step leading to heroin? No, of course.
It's rather the fact that establishement lies on pot who makes young people not believe the establishement when he -rightly- says that heroin is dangerous.
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