Your own essential attributes of great prog - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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DamoXt7942 View Drop Down

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Joined: October 15 2008
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Posted: November 22 2008 at 20:28

Hmm...I'm sure everyone here has told the impression and expression of progrock definition.

As you said, the essence of progrock is that the artist should represent in their songs JUST AS THEY FEEL, I consider.

Maybe if they do so, the songs should get emotional, expressive, impressive and dynamic.

Thanks.

LinusW

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Posted: November 22 2008 at 19:38

TGM: Orb wrote:

1. Emotion... music needs a feeling, an underlying emotional idea, something there. That's beyond essential
2. Expression... the album needs to express that emotion, and if it does so in more ways than one, that can make it great.
3. Dynamic... dynamic matters, changes of pace, of force and volume are what makes music truly hit for me

Preferably, throw in quality lyrics, a spontaneous feel and diversity, but those don't matter too much.

All very important. But I'm both broad and contradictory when it comes to what I deem good and essential. I think what I look for mostly is some kind of abstract "realisation of ideas" that of course is extremely subjective. Most albums try to be something in a certain way, and when I find it to be expressed properly, with all the parameters discussed in this thread - I like it!

Epignosis

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Posted: November 22 2008 at 18:47

Yes, actually- I have certain things I look for (or, I should say, especially enjoy) in great progressive rock music. These guidelines don't rule out exceptions, though!

1. Structure. This is the most important. Rarely do start-stop compositions (such as several short songs thrown together to make an "epic"). I also don't want to hear nine minutes of noodling (sorry "Moonchild" fans- it's noodling. I stand by that belief). Composition is key- you can't polish a turd.

2. Dynamism. I typically don't want to spend several minutes listening to the same chord progression, the same riff, or endless soloing. I want CHANGE. Maybe not Obama's sort, but change. Wink

3. Meaningful lyrics. All right, so Yes is a major exception here, but I like meanings to songs, especially when they express deep literary, philosophical, religious, or introspective ideas. Great instrumentals get a pass on this one, though.

4. Technical Decency. Notice I didn't say "prowess." I don't need a thousand notes a minute, just people who are good at what they do. I'd rather listen to Latimer than Petrucci.

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

crimson87

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Joined: January 03 2008
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Posted: November 22 2008 at 17:43

TGM: Orb wrote:

1. Emotion... music needs a feeling, an underlying emotional idea, something there. That's beyond essential
2. Expression... the album needs to express that emotion, and if it does so in more ways than one, that can make it great.
3. Dynamic... dynamic matters, changes of pace, of force and volume are what makes music truly hit for me

Preferably, throw in quality lyrics, a spontaneous feel and diversity, but those don't matter too much.

Suming up: VDGG

T.Rox

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Posted: November 22 2008 at 17:05

Anglagardist, you have mentioned three simple criteria that seems to cover most things I like in prog, though 'heavy' is not as important as 'intense' in my book.

The darkness, gloom and melancholy you mention, coupled with lighter moments, gives the good versus evil-type thing that lends the music to great emotional changes. Instense darkness tempered with light equates to emotional shifts, which in turn equals interest in the aural story. And the often epic proportions of music in the prog world lends itself to building the emotional changes thoughout a work, which is what keeps my interest through marathon songs.

Your use of 'adventurous' instead of 'complex' is enlightened. I think music that takes me on a journey - which is how I see most prog that I like - fits 'adventurous' while not always being 'complex'. I always struggle to know what 'complex' really means in a musical sense ... perhaps a shortfall of having no music theory training whatsoever.

I do like a little of the Zappa-style humour and excursions into 'sillier' types of music injected into my prog (thinking Jeremy Bender from ELP, the little nautical ditty (can't think of its name) at the end of Tubular Bells, and Wakeman's honky tonk moments) as these just break things up and give a level of 'we don't take ourselves too seriously' to an artists work (even though they are often accused of being so). Though not prog in themselves usually, these type of styles add to the shifts and swings of an artist's work and go to making varying moods thoughout an album.

The good thing about music is that it is whatever floats your own personal boat that really matters, whether you like the most brilliant of prog works or are into more mainstream music (pop, blues, rap

, etc.). With any artists work you don't have to 'get it' or take from it what others feel about a work; you simply have to enjoy a work because you like it.

And that is how simple it is for me

Edited by T.Rox - November 22 2008 at 17:08

"Without prog, life would be a mistake."

...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche

topofsm

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Posted: November 22 2008 at 17:02

I would say a few of these things:

Uniqueness: A band should sound totally unique, and either they should have their own sound or they should have been the originators of a style. However, even though Genesis and Yes were the beginning of their types of symphonic prog, I don't like listening to them as much as other prog.

Creativity: A band should at least have the spirit of trying to do something that nobody has done before. Even doing things that have been done before can be original if they don't know the rule has been broken before.

I also agree with Anglagardist's opinion on Darkness and mixture. Prog bands have always seemed to be able to convey darker atmospheres better than most other bands.

I also like these elements that come up in my favorite prog:

Atmosphere

Heaviness

Odd Rhythms

Dynamics

Mixture of Tonality and Atonality

TGM: Orb

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Posted: November 22 2008 at 16:47

1. Emotion... music needs a feeling, an underlying emotional idea, something there. That's beyond essential
2. Expression... the album needs to express that emotion, and if it does so in more ways than one, that can make it great.
3. Dynamic... dynamic matters, changes of pace, of force and volume are what makes music truly hit for me

Preferably, throw in quality lyrics, a spontaneous feel and diversity, but those don't matter too much.

anglagardist View Drop Down

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Posted: November 22 2008 at 16:16

Last evening I prepared for my friend extensive list of my most favourite prog albums, about 50 albums of all time. Looking at that list with quite wide array of styles, I started to ask myself : Are there any attributes, any qualities, any recognizable elements, which are common to all or at least absolute majority of my most loving prog albums ?

Surely enough it's not a matter of subgenre(s), my best prog albums are coming from many different subgenres of prog. Majority is coming probably from eclectic prog, many from symphonic, RIO, fusion. Canterbury, Italian symphonic, Zeuhl and even progmetal are also present.

Surely enough it's also not a matter of the era, I love albums from 1969 - 2008.

Despite it I think I can express some common attributes of my best prog. Here are the results of my observation :

1) DARKNESS, DARKNESS, DARKNESS

Absolute majority of my best prog selection are albums with dark, brooding, gloomy or melancholy mood. I can say that happy, sweet, romantic, pathetic or too uplifting prog has not for me the same emotional depth as dark prog. Albums by Yes are the only one exception in the rule.

2) ADVENTUROUS APPROACH

I don't want to use the term "complex". Complexity is often good thing for me, but not always necessary. e.g. solo albums by Peter Hammill : often not "complex" - sometimes just pH's voice over one single instrument, but what a chord progression, what a melody development. Certainly far from mainstream approach.

Simply I prefer adventurous prog to prog with mainstream influences, to catchy or too melodic prog.

3) RIGHT MIXTURE OF CALM, EMOTIONAL AND INTENSE, HEAVY

I can say I prefer such a mixture to prog, which is heavy from the first second to the last, which is too mellow or too soft or which has too much of avant-garde noise.

My question is : Do You have also any essential, for you important, attributes of great prog, according to your taste? Thanks for your opinions.

Mostly it's impossible to win the fight against stupidity. But always it's necessary to attempt it.