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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2009 at 06:48
Originally posted by dionysian_one dionysian_one wrote:


Makes me sad.  I wonder if ever we'll get out of this dull nothingness of Miley Ciruss's, Beyonce's, Timberlake's, and 50 cent's.  Every time I hear them I just cant see any message at all in their music.  Do they just want me to F?ck more people?  What?

Oddly enough I find it easy to steer clear of those "artists".LOL
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2009 at 05:45
Originally posted by jplanet jplanet wrote:

How quickly some forget, or are too young to remember - Back in the 70's when ELP was the top-grossing concert act in the world, and Yes was selling out several consecutive nights at Madison Square Garden, and Dark Side of the Moon was earning the sales that made it the best-selling album of all time, prog rock was certainly one of the most successful genres of pop music.

Now that the internet will ring the death knell of all major record labels and radio stations, my guess is that prog, along with dozens of other genres that are overlooked by the corporate music business, will end up on an equal playing field together. Sadly, it will probably never be as big as it was in the 70's when prog was king.

But, i digress. The original post wasn't about whether prog would become popular, but rather if pop music would sound so unfamiliar that it would seem like something truly innovative. Once prog starts sounding too familiar to you, you will probably do what Peter Gabriel did, and start listening to world music...


Some guy at a bar that I bartended at got into an argument with me about Pink Floyd selling out just because their songs became popular (pop being short for popular, lets not forget).  Since "Money" and "Time" got radio airplay and was considered popular, he claimed that they just wrote it that way because they knew everyone would buy it.

Obviously, I argued him out the door.

I agree that Pop (as it is now) could NEVER morph into Prog, or somehow mutate into being remotely thought of as prog.  I think the main reason is because the bast@rd producers or whatever, that MOLD poor poor young minds into pop stars, will never understand real music.  They only understand the feeble teen mind and what can be marketed to it.  Therefor music not being any part of their concern.

To me, Progressive by definition means that the music ITSELF is progressing further.  Evolving.  Not just by skill, but by spirit and enlightenment (if you will).  People with no soul are of no risk to the Prog rock universe, because you cannot progress without a soul.  Only rot and infect others.  Unfortunately, their infection has reached plauge levels.  Which is why pretty much all popular music today has destroyed so many ignorant youths.

Makes me sad.  I wonder if ever we'll get out of this dull nothingness of Miley Ciruss's, Beyonce's, Timberlake's, and 50 cent's.  Every time I hear them I just cant see any message at all in their music.  Do they just want me to F?ck more people?  What?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2009 at 06:11
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

Originally posted by Lost Follower Lost Follower wrote:

Surely 'Prog' as we know it actually came out of 'Pop' music in the first place?



I'm an elitist, and refuse to believe such garbageLOL



Notice how I spelt Strawberry Fields with a lisp above!Wink


You can run but you can't hide my friend. All those prog monsters you love were all in dozy pop groups in the 60's. Some were brilliant, some were, um not.

Embrace the POP!Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2009 at 05:57
Originally posted by Lost Follower Lost Follower wrote:

Surely 'Prog' as we know it actually came out of 'Pop' music in the first place?



I'm an elitist, and refuse to believe such garbageLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2009 at 05:52
Surely 'Prog' as we know it actually came out of 'Pop' music in the first place?

Strwaberry Fields, Arnold Layne,See Emily Play,My White Bicycle, Tomorrow never knows,Knights in white satin, Whiter shade of pale...

See where I'm coming from here?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2009 at 05:48
Originally posted by pianomandust pianomandust wrote:

I was thinking to myself today that I really enjoy a lot of styles of music.  Jazz, classical, various forms of prog, etc.  I find something to enjoy in just about every sub-genre of prog (recognized by P.A.).  That is also what worries me - I hope that in my seemingly never-ending search for new styles and forms of music, pop music (what I don't really listen to at all) will become prog to me at some point.  It's inevitable, right?  It will sound the freshest to my ears because everything else I listen to doesn't sound like pop music. 

Scary thought, and semi-sarcastic, but crap....that would be awful. 



Are you telling me that 'Owner of a lonely heart' isn't pop music?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2009 at 21:00
Originally posted by ProgShine ProgShine wrote:

I don't think so, but pop music have a lots of meanings,
 
Really that seems to have changed in the last decades, POP is identified with the most simplistic and ephemerous Rock related genre, with it's own characteristics.
 
The Beatles is pop, isn't? Well, at least until Rubber Sound, then it's a different issue
 
Madonna is pop isn't? No doubt about this
 
Pink Floyd is pop isn't? I don't think so, Pink Floyd is a popular Prog band, but not a POP band.
 
But no, we could keep ourselves calm down, prog music is, in most of the cases, hated in so many levels, that i'm not worried about that Tongue
 
Worst than hated.....Ignored. Cry
 
Iván

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2009 at 20:46
I don't think so, but pop music have a lots of meanings, The Beatles is pop, isn't? Madonna is pop isn't? Pink Floyd is pop isn't? But no, we could keep ourselves calm down, prog music is, in most of the cases, hated in so many levels, that i'm not worried about that Tongue
https://progshinerecords.bandcamp.com



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2009 at 20:18

i get the impression sometimes that some prog fans are way too interested in progs relevance in mainstream culture.you just gotta love music for what it is and how it makes you feel and ignore what others think of it whether it be good or bad.if pop music did end up influencing prog and it sounded good then why should it matter?you just gotta stop thinking of what you're listening to and just listen.to tell you the truth sometimes i do become a little angry when the music i love that has been known to me and a select few does get a bit of attention because its kinda like someone discovering your favorite hiding spot, you feel as tho you have some kind of right over it because it was yours first but then i think back to the countless times i've complained about how inept people are to good music. so in a way i contradict myself.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2008 at 15:10
Sound: polished (hardly some distortion effects from time to time);
Melodies: melodic (never one dissonant chord);
Lyrics: soft, gentle and neutral (no social commentary);
Records covers: Photoshopped artwork.
DavetheSlave: blind to irony.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2008 at 05:43
Hey CPicard - What's poppy about DT??
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2008 at 12:40
Dream Theater? So poppy...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2008 at 02:46
As a rule I don't enjoy pop music - but horror of horrors - now and then something on the radio will grab me for a while. I don't like the "commercialism" of music that is fully prevalent today - the Pop Idol syndrome - where Idols are made and unmade in the space of very short periods. It's all about money making - make as much as you can, as quickly as you can and then next please. Good luck to Simon Cowell and his mates - they drive fancy, very expensive cars by exploiting basic talent and then next time round dumping those creations for new basic talent. Sometimes life's about money but me - I prefer to remain true to my roots. Good on yer Dream Theater.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2008 at 02:04
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

 
as for the original poster's query, it is interesting how pop/rock bands have been taking influence from prog rock like The Foo Fighters, System of a Down (and solo related), The White Stripes (and Jack White) just to name a few, cant actually think of others at the moment.


I think he was really wondering whether he would get saturated with jazz/classical/prog and start enjoying pop. Theoretically, why not? But to again give an example, my grandpa has been listening to Indian Classical music since he was a teen and he still sticks to it - he's 80 come January!  He doesn't feel the need for a lighter form of music even for the sake of variety. He laments that there's no one in the household to appreciate his massive collection when he'll be gone. Cry  So, I don't think pop can replace prog as a staple for a prog fan. I like good pop once in a while but mostly it's prog or metal.
 
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Prog will eventually fall into the a category similar to jazz, classical, latin, blues, and such, in terms of it's acceptance to the music world as a 'formal' musical genre.


I doubt it. It will remain an exotic rock genre in the eyes of the mainstream and one that the critics are reluctant to both understand and embrace, just like metal.  Metal brings up the dumb, noisy, violent extreme and prog brings up the artsy, pretentious, soulless extreme.  Tongue And I love both genres.Big smile 
 



Edited by rogerthat - December 09 2008 at 02:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2008 at 00:11
some people here are being too broad and general. there are other genres besides prog and pop. some kids these days never go near pop (or prog...) or at least not for long. Yes some do start with pop if they have parents that also listen to whatever's on the radio.
 
besides, music just isnt for everyone. i mean, im sure some of the guys over at the architecture forums wonder why more people arent into architecture.
 
there's also people that pretty much will listen to whatever anyone puts on, radio or otherwise (friends cd's, ipods etc...) and enjoy it. There ARE people who will listen to anything
 
i think some people just dont care enough about music to take the time to explore whats out there. Too distracted by their lives.
 
as for the original poster's query, it is interesting how pop/rock bands have been taking influence from prog rock like The Foo Fighters, System of a Down (and solo related), The White Stripes (and Jack White) just to name a few, cant actually think of others at the moment.
 
Prog will eventually fall into the a category similar to jazz, classical, latin, blues, and such, in terms of it's acceptance to the music world as a 'formal' musical genre.
 
just some thoughts
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2008 at 23:52

Just to make the point.

A few months ago I saw in Biography channel, a guy who called himself the artist maker.

This guy in his late 50's had bought a ranch in Texas and started a business. he posted in the newspapers adds inviting kids of certain physical characteristics and ages to join a band.

He didn't cared if they knew how to sing, even he bragged that he knew nothing about music, but he knew about business. So this guy teamed groups of 4 or 5 kids, dressed them with the most popular clothes, cut their hairs in a determined style and created a personality for them.

Hired guys who wrote harmless but catchy music and voila, he had 10 boys bands, probably 7 or 8 will be totally unknown, but if one of them reached popularity, he had his expenses covered and if two sold albums, he made a lot of money.

BTW: The guy was extremely wealthy.

Isn't that manipulation?

Iván



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 08 2008 at 23:56
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2008 at 23:36
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Wow, Ivan, you are even more elitist than I am. And that's hard.
 
This is not a matter of elitism, it's my view of what happens.
 
Way back when I was 13, before I became addicted to ear scratching, my favorite band in the whole world was Linkin Park (followed by Evanescence and System of a Down). I loved everything about them, and I listened to them so much that for quite a long time I could hum the rest of the song and say a good chunk of the words for any of their songs from their first two albums (which, I know, given the repetitiveness of their music, isn't saying all that much, but even still).
 
Me too, I even bought The Best of Bread album, but that's not the point, you make it clear in the next parragraph.
 
I was introduced to them because that is the type of music my friends, yes, and I wasn't aware of other types of music at the time,
 
What were the chances for your friend and you to get familiar with Prog?
 
Weren't you following your friends?
 
Why weren't you aware of other types of music? 
 
Perobably because radios and MTV ignored other types of music.
 
Isn't that manipulation?
 
But are you really going to sit here and say that I listened to Hybrid Theory 150 times because the radio told me to?
 
 
Yes, because that's the only music your friends and you had access to, you can only like something with what you are familiar, and the radios plus music industry made sure that your friends and you got familiar with this bands more likely than with a prog band.
 
People listen to pop music because they don't care about music like we do and/or they are ignorant of other types of music
 
We didn't cared about music all our lives, at least i didn't, I also listened The Best of Bread because that was popular music when i was a kid, for a lot of kids being popular is the most inportant thing in life, they will do what their friends do and listen what they friends listen.
 
But again the main question is...Why do people ignore other types of music?
 
 and/or their intrinsic taste is suited towards that sort of thing (which is unfortunate, but the truth, and we can't change that).
 
My taste wasn't suited towards Bread, it's so evident that as soon as i got familiar with Prog I liked it, but I believed I liked Bread and The Carpenters for years, because all my friends listened them and thought they were the best musicians in the world..
 
It's also truth that i started listening Prog to impress a girl who liked it.
 
This sheeple nonsense doesn't do anybody any good, and, frankly, makes us the jerk-offs non-prog people think we are.
 
You are making my point, if you, a mature person, with a defined taste worry about non Prog people thinking we are jerk-offs...What do you expect of a 14 years kid who knows 40 kids in his class that listen 50 cents and will not accept him as easily if he listens other thing?
 
Honestly, I give a damn about what people believe of us, I am who I am and like what i like,  if somebody has a problem with this, it's his problem, not mine.
 
Iván
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 08 2008 at 23:59
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2008 at 23:34
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

So the question is, how did the "kids" of the 60's (of which I was one) being force-fed the same advertising, suddenly decide that prog was a good thing? 


When you're a kid, you go to the concerts that your friends go to, you buy the albums that the girl you wanted to date was into, it's all based around a social premise. If all the kids in school are talking about Yes and their rotating stage, or Keith Emerson impaling his Hammond with daggers, the idea that THAT is what is cool is contagious...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2008 at 23:12
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:



I agree to some extent, but not every that listens to rap likes it because 'it's cool' or whatever.
I'm on the Prog Metal Team, I listen to Liszt, Rachmaninoff, jazz fusion and I like some Avant Garde stuff too.

And I also like some hip-hop (not a lot, but maybe about 5 artists or so in the genre).
There, I said it, and it's the truth.

Okay, but before you need to say it, I know you'll say "but you're not the 'average kid", so that's out of the way now.

But I have also known people who used to listen to nothing but hip-hop, out of ignorance.

But then, one day he really enjoyed hearing me play guitar and wanted to take it up himself.

Did he just start playing guitar and emulating my style? No, he choose his own style.
Did he just start listening to music I liked because I liked it? No.
In the last 12 months, our music tastes are a fair bit different now. Sure, we have a few bands in common, like Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree, King Crimson etc that we like, but other than that he likes a lot of music I don't like and I listen to lots of stuff he doesn't like either.

The fact is, far less kids than you realize are as dumbed down and brain washed as you think.

Face, there was probably a time when at least a sizable chunk of today's PA members started out on pop music and what was readily available on commercial radio, 'music for the unthinking, music for the masses etc'.
And look where they are now.
Formulating their own individual tastes in music and discussing right here on PA.

I guarantee you, you ask for a show of hands and ask who here started out on heavily commercialized music, and there are gonna be people who stick their hand up.

Because I know, for me personally, there was in fact a time before I started playing an instrument and taking it seriously, there was a time before I started studying music theory, there was a time before I started to read about politics so I could make up my mind of where I sit on the political spectrum and there was a time before I knew about prog rock.

Some people are going to stay ignorant and not bother to learn, sure, but some people are just ignorant because they didn't know but yet they may always be willing to learn (as in the case of my friend who now enjoys prog rock alongside hip hop).



I think everybody here would have started out with commercialized music unless their parents or some other influential people in their childhood introduced them to more sophisticated music.   The problem is very few develop the curiosity to explore beyond what the TV channels and the radio tell them is good. How do they tell them? By playing only the songs of the artists they want to promote, I presume.   I have experienced this because Western music is not widely listened to in my country, so I had to make an active effort to step outside my comfort zone and expose myself to different approaches to music.  Why did I do it? Because I sensed that much as I liked what I was listening to, I had become too astute to not spot similarities across the board in the approach of different composers and wanted to move on.  I placed trust in my best friend's judgment in this matter and got a start - well, LZ, Pink Floyd and a few more of the legends - after that, I was on my own.  But most people will not easily make this first step, they are much too defensive about their music tastes to take kindly to different opinions or recommendations.  It's funny because these are the sort of people who will claim they like all sorts of music and have an open mind and don't believe in genres et all and then it comes out..all sorts except rock, metal noise, blah blah blah, the list goes on. LOL  One also has to remember that music is not usually so important for them as it is for most of us on this forum.  Even those of us here like me who are not professional musicians will concede they spend a lot of time listening to and thinking about music. The industry, in my opinion, is also using elevator music as a powerful tool to keep the tastes of the general public even more under their control - creating music that sounds beautiful and inoffensive but has no drama or emotion is the easiest way to ensure nobody will dislike it. Someday when I have the time and inclination, I will deal with that in a long essay...but here, it will be off topic. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2008 at 23:00
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:



interesting matter --  it must be equally Average Joe's fault if he will indeed prefer pop-oriented music.. not his fault if it's what he likes, just that it's reality so the record companies are trying to make as much money as possible (which is not to say all companies promote bad music, or bad pop music).  I would guess most record companies are gambling on what particular musics have markets (thank God prog has one albeit small) and those markets are people who know what they like as opposed to it being forced on them,  i.e. Bon Jovi has made some good pop rock and therefore a huge number of people liked it.

 
 

Lets be honest David....Most people don't know what they like, they listen what is played in the radios, what the magazines says is best or what is cool.

I don't say they are forced, but they are guided, multiple artists like boys or girls bands are only products, they can't sing unless helped by technology (most of them of course), they don't play a damn instrument, hardly they write their music....They only have to look cool and attract kids who will buy records with dad's credit card.

Prog is normally ignored, and when not ignored, attacked, because the industry doesn't want a band that will take one, two or three years to reach a gold record, they want platinum on the first three months, because that's where the money is for the executives.

Yes, the average Joe doesn't want to research for good music, he wants to listen what somebody else with some "authority" tells them is good, and of course very few DJ's will tell them Prog is good.

We leave in an easy society, people want to be told the movies they must see, the food they must eat, the places they must go and of course the music they must listen. and very few will tell people to listen Prog.

Iván

Wow, Ivan, you are even more elitist than I am. And that's hard.
 
Way back when I was 13, before I became addicted to ear scratching, my favorite band in the whole world was Linkin Park (followed by Evanescence and System of a Down). I loved everything about them, and I listened to them so much that for quite a long time I could hum the rest of the song and say a good chunk of the words for any of their songs from their first two albums (which, I know, given the repetitiveness of their music, isn't saying all that much, but even still). I was introduced to them because that is the type of music my friends, yes, and I wasn't aware of other types of music at the time, but are you really going to sit here and say that I listened to Hybrid Theory 150 times because the radio told me to?
 
People listen to pop music because they don't care about music like we do and/or they are ignorant of other types of music and/or their intrinsic taste is suited towards that sort of thing (which is unfortunate, but the truth, and we can't change that). This sheeple nonsense doesn't do anybody any good, and, frankly, makes us the jerk-offs non-prog people think we are.


Edited by Henry Plainview - December 08 2008 at 23:01
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