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BaldJean 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
 Posted: March 17 2009 at 10:36 |
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I didn't say atheism is a religion, I said it is a dogma. look up dogma in a dictionary, or let me save you the time and post it here:
as to the brainwashing: that was a reply to Sean; he spoke of brainwashing. and of course you were influenced by your father and your surroundings, just like everyone else. absolutely nobody grows up uninfluenced by anybody. there was probably only one exception in history, and that was the sad case of Kaspar Hauser |
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator 
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20605 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 11:24 |
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Nope!! There is no written rules or laws to tell you what you have to think in atheism, since there is nothing to believe in.
I don't think you're able to grasp this: Atheism is not a belief, a religion a dogma and a doctrine. There is no creator, period. You don't read books to know there is no creator >>> I've never seen any, nor have I looked for them >>> although I'm sure there must be some.
And I don't make the mistake of confusing your form of paganism (no insult intended, I assure you >> I even call myself a pagan to gntly ruffle christian's feathers) with some kind of deity that replaces the god (s).
Actually I prefer a certain primary sort of paganism that worshipped females deities (since they gave life) rather than all of those monotheism that have kidnapped the gods by the males and almost systematically exclude females from the clergies in order to "control" them better.
Jean, you've probly been born from religious parents, whether strongly or weaker practicing) so you were brought up from day one into this christian athmosphere that permeated through your skin, probably as you were still breastfeeding from your mom, than later being gently scolded using god's 10 commendments as rules and such things. >>> the brainwashing words might sound brutal, but it is very insiduously done.
I lived in a house without crosses or crucifixes or any "reminder of god" artefacts in the house and when scolded for something I did wrong, I either received a slap or got some kind of atheist-sermon.
The only reason why I was submitted to church was through school (this was gentle and not obligatory as in the 60's & 70's, even catholic schools were cool on this) and my grandparents (very much practicing catholics) and the pressures they put on my parents, but they never rejected their grandchildren or try to force their beliefs on us.
As for your last comment, religion was invented in answering (or trying to) your fears and superstitions. It quickly became a power tool, since the "shaman" could tell anyone why the volcano was acting up >>> I t's because Randy took something that belonged to my cousin Rudolph and the Volcano will keep acting up until Randy gives it back, (plus a penalty for forgiveness
 ). This happened in all civilzation were the control of superstitions was a (sometimes good) counterweight to brute force by the "kings".Edited by Sean Trane - March 17 2009 at 11:32 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Online Points: 17540 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 11:45 |
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Really quite true. The fact is that most people (not all of course), but MOST people simply are whatever faith Mommy and Daddy were. It becomes ingrained in their childhood and they accept it is fact.
Whether it's true or not, most folks don't bother to attempt to determine it on their own, they simply choose to believe what another person has told them. Which makes it all the more scary when someone says they have 100% belief, no doubt, no honest skepticism whatsover. Just tell me what to believe Dad, and I'm there for life.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 11:59 |
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What about believing in the non-existence of God?  |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:00 |
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The incredible thing is tghat if somebody says for example "Brain Salad Surgery is Bull Sh!t (I don't think that, I rted it with 5 stars)", all the fans make a scandal, even the administrators call you to respect the tastes of the rest of the people.
But if somebody attacks your deepest and more transcendental beliefe, nothing happens, buy the contrary, you are called almost afanatic.
Have you read the guideliines?
Isn't calling your religious beliefs BULL SH!T a deliberate denigration?
The rules iof the site are there, buit nobody except Jean who don't share my faith support this.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 17 2009 at 12:07 |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:02 |
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Really quite false. Just as you aren't born being a religious person, you aren't born being a firm non-religious person, either. Since being an atheist means not believing that a God exists, infants up to a certain age don't even bear the knowledge of a God, let alone form a proper atheistic conception. And I'm surprised that parents guiding you, religiously speaking, is a problem, since parents normally guide children in everything, up to a certain point, when the child finally forms takes an independent own moral, logical and even religious path, resembling or not what parents and other people have offered. Edited by Ricochet - March 17 2009 at 12:05 |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Online Points: 17540 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:09 |
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It's very true Rico, you're just distorting it. A person who is born has no religious belief inherant. It is taught. I understand you consider non-belief a religion.
Edited by Finnforest - March 17 2009 at 12:10 |
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:14 |
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it is not as simple as that, else anthropologists would not be discussing whether religious feelings are an inherited trait or have to be learned |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:14 |
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 17 2009 at 12:16 |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:20 |
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Ah, yes, words were apparently distorted this whole thread. I incidentally think that non-belief could be a form of religion, dogma or even belief, mostly thinking about how Mircea Eliade settled this: there is the homo religiosus, who has his own spiritual universe, who supports the sacred and the transcendental, and the homo areligiosus, who denies and refusing the sacred, and thinks the world will be purified when the transcendental will be demoted as an illusion. BUT, here says Eliade, homo areligiosus's conduct derives from an initial homo religiosus condition, and can be itself considered a form of belief. Ultimately what I currently believe in is exactly this: something sacred, something transcendent, and even a certain Creator. A nothingness' "afterlife", for me, is pure nonsense. And with parents teaching, it's religion that it taught (due to its particularities, its principles, its ways etc.), but belief ultimately can't be taught. |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Online Points: 17540 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:25 |
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Interesting! |
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:26 |
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Sean, I have already stated that I am not a Christian. I advise you to read what I stated about my beliefs earlier in this post. the existence of a God the way I described "him" (I don't like the pronoun) is a logical necessity for me until someone comes up with an explanation where our consciousness comes from. I stated my opinion about that; once you believe in that you just have to think it through logically to inadvertently arrive at the conclusion that there is something we should call "God". the explanation of God given by me is the central dogma of the religion Friede and I are High Priestesses of, by the way. you have negative feelings towards a certain organized religion because of the way you were brought up. I have perfect understanding for that. but calling people "brainwashed" because they believe in God goes way too far Edited by BaldJean - March 17 2009 at 14:48 |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:27 |
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Hey, who are you calling a homo? Sorry that was bad, couldn't resist.  |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:32 |
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I especially love nr. 7 of "Who We Are"; it is so self-contradictory |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:53 |
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Yes jean, it's funny to read how this people who are sworn enemies odf religion say they work toward fostering cooperative diversity This one is better, ths Atheist Organization say they don't believe in Commandmente and call them suggestions (in small font
Who will dare to say they donm't have beliefs, hey they have formal Commandments.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 17 2009 at 13:08 |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 13:05 |
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 We're all homo sapiens sapiens sapiens sapiens, aren't we?  |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 13:41 |
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^ Technically we are homo sapiens sapiens - the extra two sapiens are superfluous
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What?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 13:42 |
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There are people wanting to join factions everywhere.. So there ARE atheist organizations....
Unlike Christianism or any other religion, though, most atheists don't belong to any group and most are 100% independent. I have never even known of the existence of those bullsh*t atheist organizations.
Christians are told what to believe and follow by churches and priests and books... these atheists you show us seem to be that way, too. Most of us, though, need none to tell us anything. We have our ideas (o lack thereof) from our pure intellectual analysis...
No "commandments" for us... really... if we have to obey a set of rules, we most likely will follow the rule of law.... of secular law... no ridiculous set of rules that state the obvious... (including this ludicrous "atheist ten commandments")
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 13:51 |
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I don't know Iván, you seem to have a lot of readily available links to atheist resources, are you sure you aren't a closet atheist?
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: March 17 2009 at 13:53 |
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I know. It was part of a pun.  |
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