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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:53 |
rushfan4 wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
markosherrera wrote:
For me the religions and priests many time invades the politic ,and this is the problem |
Separation of Church and State. Always! Religion should remain personal.
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i.e. put up a Holiday Tree instead of a Christmas Tree.  |
Agreed!
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:52 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Mark 13:6 comes to mind.
[Jesus said] "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." |
Well put and quite true.
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To which the skeptic in me says "how do you know that the Jesus that said those words was the true Christ, and not a deceptive one?" |
I wouldn't doubt Jesus said this. Based on the written story of his life, it fits. He was very intelligent and in tune with the ways of man. He saw that man would use guise his personal gain under the veil of something seemingly innocent. Saying Jesus was deceptive doesn't match his message, which was IMO, Buddhism with a God.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66817
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:52 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
markosherrera wrote:
For me the religions and priests many time invades the politic ,and this is the problem |
Separation of Church and State. Always! Religion should remain personal.
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i.e. put up a Holiday Tree instead of a Christmas Tree. 
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:51 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Mark 13:6 comes to mind.
[Jesus said] "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." |
Well put and quite true.
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To which the skeptic in me says "how do you know that the Jesus that said those words was the true Christ, and not a deceptive one?" |
Well, he is quoted as saying many things that the religious right ignores so therefore I think he was on the right track. 
Edited by Slartibartfast - July 24 2009 at 12:38
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:50 |
markosherrera wrote:
For me the religions and priests many time invades the politic ,and this is the problem |
Separation of Church and State. Always! Religion should remain personal.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66817
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:48 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Mark 13:6 comes to mind.
[Jesus said] "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." |
Well put and quite true.
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To which the skeptic in me says "how do you know that the Jesus that said those words was the true Christ, and not a deceptive one?"
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:44 |
Epignosis wrote:
Mark 13:6 comes to mind.
[Jesus said] "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." |
Well put and quite true.
Edited by Slartibartfast - July 24 2009 at 11:49
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:42 |
For me the religions and priests many time invades the politic ,and this is the problem
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Hi progmaniacs of all the world
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:40 |
rushfan4 wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
[QUOTE=markosherrera]You can not fault an entire religion because of the misguided decisions of their leaders. Men who use religion for conquest are simply doing so out of selfishness.
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As true as this statement is, religion is a tool that has been used throughout history for this exact reason. There is something to be said about an establishment whose leaders are consistently to blame for making these misguided decisions. I know the saying is that "money is the root of all evil", but I have always felt that religion is a close second. That being said, I also agree with the cliche that "you can't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch". Throughout history there have been many bad apples "representing" God with their misguided decisions, but there have been just as many, if not more, who truly believe and have faith and do and say what they say for truly moral purposes.
This being said, I don't wish to soil Rob's Christian thread with arguments like the above, as I believe Rob to be a good apple, and his purpose for this thread serves his personal purposes. Although, now that I think about it, it might all be part of his evil plan to rule the world.  |
Here's where human character comes into play and the famous saying "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Sometimes even the most humble and devout can fall victim to enticements that power brings.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32588
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:36 |
rushfan4 wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
[QUOTE=markosherrera]You can not fault an entire religion because of the misguided decisions of their leaders. Men who use religion for conquest are simply doing so out of selfishness.
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As true as this statement is, religion is a tool that has been used throughout history for this exact reason. There is something to be said about an establishment whose leaders are consistently to blame for making these misguided decisions. I know the saying is that "money is the root of all evil", but I have always felt that religion is a close second. That being said, I also agree with the cliche that "you can't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch". Throughout history there have been many bad apples "representing" God with their misguided decisions, but there have been just as many, if not more, who truly believe and have faith and do and say what they say for truly moral purposes.
This being said, I don't wish to soil Rob's Christian thread with arguments like the above, as I believe Rob to be a good apple, and his purpose for this thread serves his personal purposes. Although, now that I think about it, it might all be part of his evil plan to rule the world.  | Mark 13:6 comes to mind.
[Jesus said] "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66817
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:32 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
[QUOTE=markosherrera]You can not fault an entire religion because of the misguided decisions of their leaders. Men who use religion for conquest are simply doing so out of selfishness.
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As true as this statement is, religion is a tool that has been used throughout history for this exact reason. There is something to be said about an establishment whose leaders are consistently to blame for making these misguided decisions. I know the saying is that "money is the root of all evil", but I have always felt that religion is a close second. That being said, I also agree with the cliche that "you can't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch". Throughout history there have been many bad apples "representing" God with their misguided decisions, but there have been just as many, if not more, who truly believe and have faith and do and say what they say for truly moral purposes.
This being said, I don't wish to soil Rob's Christian thread with arguments like the above, as I believe Rob to be a good apple, and his purpose for this thread serves his personal purposes. Although, now that I think about it, it might all be part of his evil plan to rule the world. 
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:31 |
Epignosis wrote:
progrocker2244 wrote:
I'm still a teenager and I recently made my confirmation into the catholic church. There are just many things I wonder about and sometimes worry about.
When we die is there really an afterlife? Could there be an apocalypse in my lifetime?
If someone (Robert I'm pointing at you) could share their thoughts about these topics please share
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As I mentioned in another post, I have somewhat of a different view regarding the afterlife that many purists may ridicule me for, but my beliefs come from careful study of Scripture, not tradition.
I believe that when we die, we take a dirt nap, so to speak. I do not believe we have immortal souls or intangible spirits, or some part of us that immediately exits the body on death and goes to Heaven or Hell. One extra-biblical argument I use for this is to say that if my eyes were suddenly gouged out, I would not be able to see...but if I had a spirit that survived this physical body, wouldn't I still be able to see?
Now take all this with a grain of salt, because I could be wrong here. If we die and immediately go to Heaven, that's perfectly fine with me, I just don't believe that's how it happens. If we die and wind up in the ground for a while, fine- I could use the beauty sleep. 
I believe that in the final days (per Revelation), the dead will be resurrected and judged. God will not show us a movie of our lives (as some think), but we will be judged based solely on this: Do we belong to Christ? If you are Christ's disciple, you are with him for eternity, where God glorifies Himself by dumping kindness on you forever. If you do not belong to Christ (if you did not repent of your sins and accept his sacrifice), you will be destroyed and that's that.
I personally do not believe in an "everlasting fiery torment" as tradition states; I think the punishment of evil has more to do with being put to shame...you see, the reward for those who are Christ's is being honored with Christ, not feeling a constant physical euphoria (the opposite of physical torment), so I think the ultimate punishment for those who are not his is being put to shame (which could certainly entail physical pain and I believe it does, just not eternal physical pain).
Regarding when all this will happen, I can never say. The Bible says even Jesus himself does not know the day or time of his return, but it could certainly happen in your lifetime.
I hope this helps...and again, take what I say in this post with a grain of salt or the whole Morton company if you wish.
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Thanks for your help
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32588
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:25 |
progrocker2244 wrote:
I'm still a teenager and I recently made my confirmation into the catholic church. There are just many things I wonder about and sometimes worry about.
When we die is there really an afterlife? Could there be an apocalypse in my lifetime?
If someone (Robert I'm pointing at you) could share their thoughts about these topics please share
| As I mentioned in another post, I have somewhat of a different view regarding the afterlife that many purists may ridicule me for, but my beliefs come from careful study of Scripture, not tradition.
I believe that when we die, we take a dirt nap, so to speak. I do not believe we have immortal souls or intangible spirits, or some part of us that immediately exits the body on death and goes to Heaven or Hell. One extra-biblical argument I use for this is to say that if my eyes were suddenly gouged out, I would not be able to see...but if I had a spirit that survived this physical body, wouldn't I still be able to see?
Now take all this with a grain of salt, because I could be wrong here. If we die and immediately go to Heaven, that's perfectly fine with me, I just don't believe that's how it happens. If we die and wind up in the ground for a while, fine- I could use the beauty sleep. 
I believe that in the final days (per Revelation), the dead will be resurrected and judged. God will not show us a movie of our lives (as some think), but we will be judged based solely on this: Do we belong to Christ? If you are Christ's disciple, you are with him for eternity, where God glorifies Himself by dumping kindness on you forever. If you do not belong to Christ (if you did not repent of your sins and accept his sacrifice), you will be destroyed and that's that.
I personally do not believe in an "everlasting fiery torment" as tradition states; I think the punishment of evil has more to do with being put to shame...you see, the reward for those who are Christ's is being honored with Christ, not feeling a constant physical euphoria (the opposite of physical torment), so I think the ultimate punishment for those who are not his is being put to shame (which could certainly entail physical pain and I believe it does, just not eternal physical pain).
Regarding when all this will happen, I can never say. The Bible says even Jesus himself does not know the day or time of his return, but it could certainly happen in your lifetime.
I hope this helps...and again, take what I say in this post with a grain of salt or the whole Morton company if you wish.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:20 |
markosherrera wrote:
One thing is believe in God or afterlife other are the religions that many times kill in the name of God |
Those that would kill in the name of God, exploit holy words. I'm not a believer, but all men are human, whether clergy or otherwise. This means they fall victim to human weaknesses. You can not fault an entire religion because of the misguided decisions of their leaders. Men who use religion for conquest are simply doing so out of selfishness.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32588
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:13 |
I worship God, but I also believe in syntax...
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:09 |
One thing is believe in God or afterlife other are the religions that many times kill in the name of God
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Hi progmaniacs of all the world
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 11:05 |
I'm still a teenager and I recently made my confirmation into the catholic church. There are just many things I wonder about and sometimes worry about. When we die is there really an afterlife? Could there be an apocalypse in my lifetime? If someone (Robert I'm pointing at you) could share their thoughts about these topics please share
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32588
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 10:59 |
Post edited.
Edited by Epignosis - July 24 2009 at 11:28
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camilleanne
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 29 2009
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 403
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 19:55 |
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The planet is fine the people are f**ked.
-George Carlin-
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 19:24 |
JJLehto wrote:
Thanks Rob and Micah
And again I have no basis to support this claim, just my gut instinct: I'd imagine heaven is not "anything" it would be what is paradise to YOU. Likewise hell is not fiery and all that, but rather what would be to torture to YOU.
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Well, while this is also merely my own opinion, I wouldn't say you were too far off on that analogy.
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