People's problems with growling

^ Well, Mikael Akerfeldt is great at switching between growls and clean melodic singing in Opeth's stuff.

But as I said earlier, growling is NOT singing, so people shouldn't compare the two. Of course you won't find any similarities between them, because they aren't the same thing. Totally and utterly different.

topofsm wrote: ^ Yes, but most percussion instruments don't have much in the way of emotion. By using your logic, does a lengthy snare roll express anything other than "I know how to double stroke on a snare drum"? By your logic, any untuned instruments should be taken out of music altogether. However, just like rapid snare hits, cymbal crescendoes, and bass drum booms are made to increase drive and intensity, so are death growls to increase agression, power, and depth in the piece of music, not to mention intentionally making the listener feel uncomfortable.

Excuse me? It does not follow at all; you are making that up. I said nothing about melody or tuned or untuned instruments at all.
I am a drummer, and I don't expect a percussion instrument to convey emotion, at least not in the same way as a voice. The human voice is the most expressive of all instruments.
A growl does not convey power to me, sorry; please explain why it should. A shout does convey power, but not a growl. Neither does it convey depth, whatever you mean by that in the first place. It does convey aggression though, but of a raw and primitive kind (hence why I think the appropriate lyrics to go with growling are about cannibalism or the likes). But it does not make me feel uneasy, at least not the way you mean. It is annoying, that's all. A kid might feel uneasy about that kind of voice; I just think it is ridiculous.

p0mt3 wrote: BaldFriede wrote: topofsm wrote: BaldFriede wrote: I can live with shrieking, screaming, sobbing and all other kinds of vocals - but growling? What's the point of it? Does any of you ever growl in real life? Probably not. The only thing growling reminds me of are third rate horror movies, and I immediately think the content of the song must be third rate horror stuff whenever a singer growls. The worst thing is that I am right in at least 90% of the cases.   No, but I do tend to speak my words with an operatic vibrato when I'm talking to people.   The point is I don't think it's a valid argument, because people don't play instruments or sing in 'real life' whatever that means.   The point my original post is trying to make is that growling is not easy to do and is definetely a tool that should be used in a lot of music. Therefore even though people don't like it, they should be able to appreciate it, and I'm mostly getting posts on how people dislike it.   I also agree on how difficult it is listening to black metal vocals. It just sounds like high pitched gurgling to me, though I listened to Wolves in the Throne Room and it changed my opinion drastically, because it made the bleak atmosphere so much better. I just explained why I don't like it., and I don't appreciate it either. If others like it, fine; I consider it to be somewhat puerile. You're argument doesn't make sense, though. Do you go around speaking to people in song on a regular basis? I highly doubt it. So how does the 'people don't growl in real life' point hold any water whatsoever? It's fine if you just don't like it, but make that your point next time, as it's the only one that really makes sense. Every other reason for not liking something still boils down to personal taste.

You have not understood my argument, that's all. If a singer for example screams he does it to express a certain emotion, like fear or anger. But what the heck is supposed to be expressed by growling? "I am an animal"?
My dislike also has to do with the kind of lyrics I automatically associate with growling, which is stuff like cannibalism or the likes. You certainly don't sing "I love you" with a growling voice unless you are a madman. The way you sing should reflect the content of the song.
By the way: Opera singers sing the way they do because that kind of singing produces the maximum noise with a minimum of effort. This is very important when you have no microphone, need to reach a large audience and be heard above an accompanying orchestra. It is not just a mannerism, as some people do believe.

Like many I assume, I was a little cautious of growling at first, it just sounded wrong to me. But my taste has matured a bit, and I now see its impact in greater appreciation. I still far prefer clean vocals, but, I can stomach some growls if they are done tastefully.

topofsm wrote: BaldFriede wrote: I can live with shrieking, screaming, sobbing and all other kinds of vocals - but growling? What's the point of it? Does any of you ever growl in real life? Probably not. The only thing growling reminds me of are third rate horror movies, and I immediately think the content of the song must be third rate horror stuff whenever a singer growls. The worst thing is that I am right in at least 90% of the cases.   No, but I do tend to speak my words with an operatic vibrato when I'm talking to people.   The point is I don't think it's a valid argument, because people don't play instruments or sing in 'real life' whatever that means.   The point my original post is trying to make is that growling is not easy to do and is definetely a tool that should be used in a lot of music. Therefore even though people don't like it, they should be able to appreciate it, and I'm mostly getting posts on how people dislike it.   I also agree on how difficult it is listening to black metal vocals. It just sounds like high pitched gurgling to me, though I listened to Wolves in the Throne Room and it changed my opinion drastically, because it made the bleak atmosphere so much better.

I just explained why I don't like it., and I don't appreciate it either. If others like it, fine; I consider it to be somewhat puerile.

BaldFriede wrote: Does any of you ever growl in real life? Probably not.

I once knew a guy who used to growl. I think he was a bit insane though.

nmccrina wrote: Passionist wrote: I'm still trying to figure out when did musicians reach the point, when distortion was the only way to go about. There's basically no rock songs on radio nowadays without any distortion on the guitar. And then it was in the singing. Better than the "emo guy + acoustic guitar" junk that's all over the alternative stations, 'round here anyway. Plain White T's =

Haha, true. Quite true.

rushfan4 wrote: Besides, this probably applies to me.   stonebeard wrote:   I assume anyone who makes that argument yells at kids on the street and has long ago gone far too deaf to have a valid opinion on anything related to music.

:(

But ze music would be ineffective.

I think human voice as an instrument in all of it's different forms is a great gift.