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Topic ClosedHow to rate an Iron Maiden album?
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friso View Drop Down
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Points: 2506 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: How to rate an Iron Maiden album?
    Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:42
I've read a lot of Iron Maiden reviews this evening, mainly written for their first six albums. They are hailed as the perfect metal band and bashed for not being progressive. Some referred to their 4th as "piece of crap" and other great records were bashed in this odd way too.

Being a liftime fan of Iron Maiden this all sounds strange. How can one rate The Number of the Beast two stars? 'They weren't progressive enough' claim the reviewers.

Now my question is: How do you rate an Iron Maiden album that does not have real progressive moments like Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. How many stars does a perfect metal album deserve?
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:48
Just use the stars as they are defined, keeping in mind that a Prog Related album can never be an essential master piece of prog. Alle the others are valid options, and I reckon most will become 2 or 3 stars in the case of Maiden following that logic, with a few getting 4.

Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music
Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection
Good, but non-essential
Collectors/fans only
Poor. Only for completionists



Edited by Angelo - September 17 2009 at 17:49
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Points: 65844 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:53
Maiden are here as ProgRelated and the rating description for PR bands reflects that by not using the word 'progressive', so when a writer says a PR band is not progressive enough it's an unnecessary warning and their rating should account for that.  On the other hand, I guess on a prog site that's their prerogative.  The reviews you read may have been written before that change was made.  And besides I happen agree with you that they are progressive anyway, so ...

 
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Points: 38728 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:54
I just want to note that it was changed for Prog Related and Proto Prog:

Essential: a masterpiece of rock music
19%
Excellent addition to any rock music collection
23%
Good, but non-essential 
41%
Collectors/fans only 
14%
Poor. Only for completionists [sic]

EDIT: David got in a minute earlier.
3%



Edited by Logan - September 17 2009 at 17:56
Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Points: 24439 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:01
As I said on numerous occasions, I have never given a flying **** about the definitions accompanying the star ratings. If I felt that a PR or PP album was a masterpiece, I gave it five stars - as simple as that, and I would have probably gone ballistic if anyone had forced me to give it a lower rating because it was not prog. In my view of the world, such attitudes border on fanaticism, and are not to be encouraged. Thankfully, the change in the definition has made it much easier for people to rate PR and PP albums without  feeling they were violating some holy tenet of progginessWink.

As regards those who bash albums because they're not prog, in my very humble opinion they should be kicked off the site, or stripped of their Collab or PR title. Stuff like that does not happen on any of the other prog sites I visit - albums are rated according to their musical worth, not on the basis of their 'prog quotient'. People who think like that are a detriment to the credibility of any serious site.


Edited by Raff - September 17 2009 at 18:04
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Points: 38728 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:24
Discussed this in another thread, but, if one takes the ratings descriptions seriously, I find some interesting points for discussion:

a) Prog-Related has albums that are arguably just as Prog as anything else, and personally, since this is a Prog site, I would generally rather rate those higher than albums I don't think are Prog in Prog Related.  Just because an album is in Prog Related, or Proto-Prog, doesn't mean the album is not Prog (and of course it could still be progressive rock without being Prog).

b) In the Prog categories, accoording to the descriptions, we are still supposed to rate according to an album's Prog quotient whereas in Prog Related we aren't asked to.  Of course there are many albums in Prog categories that are not really Prog,

c) The rock quotient: There are many albums in the archives that aren't really rock, but we are expected, according to the guidelines, to rate them lower if they are not rock.  So an album might be a maserpeice of progressive music, but because it's not rock it's rated lower.  I do agree that an album like Kind of Blue should probably be rated lower than Bitches Brew since Davis is here for his Fusion albums, but it still seems a bit unfair on those non-rock bands.  Should I rate Aranis lower, others in RIO, or bands in Electronic, and Folk, even if it's not best described as rock? Well, of course we artye according to the way a category works and, for instance, Aranis is accepted as Rock in Opposition (some bands have that element or attitude more submerged).  It's understandable that progressive rock would progress farther from its rock roots. In a way, I thought that non-progressive rock music was getting a bit of a free ride.  And now in Prog-Related if an album is rock but not progressive, or Prog, according to the guidelines it gets more of a free ride than a progressive album in Prog Related that is not rock.

d) Music can be deemed progressive rock without being deemed Progressive Rock. Not all Prog is progressive and not all progressive rock is Prog. Since it mentions "progressive rock" rather than Prog (or Progressive Rock) one can still rate it on progressiveness and not in some generic sense. That noun versus adjective progressive rock/ Progressive Rock thing.


Edited by Logan - September 17 2009 at 18:28
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:32
If an album on here is a masterpiece I give it a 5, no matter what subgenre. I rate every album equally here. It would seem unfair to give a masterpiece a low rating because it isn't "progressive" enough.

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Points: 489 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:50
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.


Not only prog enough but with some great prog moments as well
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Points: 38728 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:57
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.


What are you laughing at? Had someone said that Iron Maiden is Prog?


Edited by Logan - September 17 2009 at 18:58
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Points: 24439 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:02
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.


What are you laughing at? Had someone said that Iron Maiden is Prog?


Lots of people on this site think they are, and they have a right to their opinion without being ridiculed. People like that are definitely not an asset to any serious site.
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:02
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.


I'm getting a hint that you haven't heard Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son. Anyway, did anyone ever say they were?

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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:09
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.
 
You are f**king useless, on the other hand.... to use your same language style
 
I have given 5 stars to many Iron Maiden albums. If a band is here, their albums have to be judge with the same standard. I would never put "Somewhere in time" in the same level as a 4 star album no matter how prog this second one could be...  Prog is just a word....
 
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Points: 38728 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:23
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.


What are you laughing at? Had someone said that Iron Maiden is Prog?


Lots of people on this site think they are, and they have a right to their opinion without being ridiculed. People like that are definitely not an asset to any serious site.


Many people consider their music Prog, and Prog is often a pretty nebulous term and open to much interpretation, some others think it's progressive but not Prog, while others think it's Proggy etc.

What I don't get is that that comment seems kind of out of the blue.  Music can be progressive without being Prog, and Prog need not be progressive.  I saw people discussing progressiveness before his post, but no-one saying it was Prog.

Hawkwise, it is offensively expressed, and I hope it was just a joke.

EDIT: ah now I get it.  I hadn't noticed that this was posted in the Prog Lounge. Embarrassed


Edited by Logan - September 17 2009 at 21:37
Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Points: 19374 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:08
Somewhere In Time and Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son, and A Matter Of Life And Death (the newest!) are the best, IMHO. Okay, not the "best," but certainly my faves! Big smile
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Points: 10740 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:50
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.



If you don't think Iron Maiden belong on PA as a prog-related band, then this is probably the wrong thread for you. The thread starter is looking for sincere advise, let's respect that.

On another note, now I'm going to have that Run for the Hills song going through my brain all night, damn all of you , ha ha ha.
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Points: 4119 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:56
Why this thread in Prog Lounge ?   Maybe there should be a heavy Metal Lounge ?  whats next Motorhead ?

 
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Points: 10740 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:59
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Why this thread in Prog Lounge ?   Maybe there should be a heavy Metal Lounge ?  whats next Motorhead ?  


I moved it to prog-related lounge, now please let the good people go back to their conversation.
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 00:51
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I just want to note that it was changed for Prog Related and Proto Prog:

Essential: a masterpiece of rock music
19%
Excellent addition to any rock music collection
23%
Good, but non-essential 
41%
Collectors/fans only 
14%
Poor. Only for completionists [sic]

EDIT: David got in a minute earlier.
3%



Even better. Clap Thanks to David as well.


Edited by Angelo - September 18 2009 at 00:51
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Points: 206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 01:42
Who really cares if they are progressive enough or not. They kick ass, they can all play very well, have great albums and the best mascot ever. Up the Irons!!!
" Men are not prisoners of fate, but prisoners of their own minds." - FDR
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Points: 24439 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 05:41
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Why this thread in Prog Lounge ?   Maybe there should be a heavy Metal Lounge ?  whats next Motorhead ?

 


Yes. If we decide to add Motorhead, we will, even if you disagree. You know, there are LOTS of other prog forums around the web who could use a troll like you.
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