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Topic ClosedTheism vs. Atheism ... will it ever be settled?
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 19:36
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

guys like Jerry Fallwell, Fred Phelps or Bob Jones don't dspeak fotr the 600'000 Christians or for any of the 1.3 billion Catholics.
 

And for that we can all be thankful.  I would not want to tar any religion with the sins of their extremists.

Cartoon time Big smile:



Edited by Slartibartfast - July 07 2010 at 19:38
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 19:28
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


Please THUIS SITE WORKS EXACTLY AS ANY EVANGELIST SITE, they even have a holy mission:
 
Quote

Mission Statement for Both Charities

The mission of the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science is to support scientific education, critical thinking and evidence-based understanding of the natural world in the quest to overcome religious fundamentalism, superstition, intolerance and human suffering.

 


Let's see:

Scientific Education: Can't see anything wrong with that. Most moderately religious people actually endorse the idea of scientific education.

Critical Thinking: Again - can't see anything wrong with wanting to promote that. It's not at all comparable to religious dogma ... more like the exact opposite.

Evidence based understanding of the natural world: Guess what - can't see anything wrong with that either. When it comes to the natural world, relying on evidence is a good thing.


Does it take any faith to see the usefulness of these goals?
 
You forget their intolerance, arrogance, self indulgence, disrespect for all of us.
 
Some organized religions promote education and science (thousands of Catholic schools arropund the world are among the best in their countries, you also forget all the charity done by religious organizations, and a lot of positive aspects.
 
But the point is that positive or bnegative, this organizations are churches of atheism, that's why most atheists don't want to be identfied with guys as Dawkins.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 07 2010 at 19:32
            
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 19:22
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Dawkins does not speak for or represent all of the 1.1 billion nonreligious people in the world. Very few atheists support his views, proposals or methods. He makes a lot of noise and publicity, but he is in a minority. The vast majority of atheists, nontheists, postthiests, humanists, secularists and other irreligious people have no agenda or mission, they are not interested in religion unless it directly affects them. I count myself in this later group - except I'll sometimes defend "science" when it is under attack from people who use bad science to support their case.
 
 
I agree, Dean, and you must also agree that guys like Jerry Fallwell, Fred Phelps or Bob Jones don't dspeak fotr the 600'000 Christians or for any of the 1.3 billion Catholics.
 
They make a lot of noise, provoke a lot of people and want publicity, but they don't represent the vast majority of religious people who live their faith in peace.
 
The problem is that we have accepted this from the first day, but guys like Mike insist in placing all of us in the same sack.
 
Iván
 
 
            
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 18:49
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by DT-PT DT-PT wrote:

Slightly off topic, but this is the only forum I know of where double posts aren't frowned upon. LOL
Life's too short to be that anal and I have better things to do.
 
Apparently on 4chan Admins & Mods can permaban people on a whim for no rhyme or reason... now that sounds like fun.

Let me just take the time to say this . . . 

These moderators are the most down-to-earth, intelligent, reasonable mods I've ever encountered on the net. You guys really do put up with much more than most, while still doing your job, and we love ya for it! Clap 
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Points: 6802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 18:31
Then Mike will do a new Poll to see if Theist are on the minority and try to convince them once again how wrong they are...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Points: 65779 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 18:23
what if everyone is right
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 18:20
We're on the 14th page and we still haven't settled it?  Whatsamadda wit you people?
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 4006 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 17:32
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


Please THUIS SITE WORKS EXACTLY AS ANY EVANGELIST SITE, they even have a holy mission:
 
Quote

Mission Statement for Both Charities

The mission of the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science is to support scientific education, critical thinking and evidence-based understanding of the natural world in the quest to overcome religious fundamentalism, superstition, intolerance and human suffering.

 


Let's see:

Scientific Education: Can't see anything wrong with that. Most moderately religious people actually endorse the idea of scientific education.

Critical Thinking: Again - can't see anything wrong with wanting to promote that. It's not at all comparable to religious dogma ... more like the exact opposite.

Evidence based understanding of the natural world: Guess what - can't see anything wrong with that either. When it comes to the natural world, relying on evidence is a good thing.


Does it take any faith to see the usefulness of these goals?
 
Maybe he could try to overcome some of the intolerance on his own message boards.
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 16:41
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


Please THUIS SITE WORKS EXACTLY AS ANY EVANGELIST SITE, they even have a holy mission:
 
Quote

Mission Statement for Both Charities

The mission of the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science is to support scientific education, critical thinking and evidence-based understanding of the natural world in the quest to overcome religious fundamentalism, superstition, intolerance and human suffering.

 


Let's see:

Scientific Education: Can't see anything wrong with that. Most moderately religious people actually endorse the idea of scientific education.

Critical Thinking: Again - can't see anything wrong with wanting to promote that. It's not at all comparable to religious dogma ... more like the exact opposite.

Evidence based understanding of the natural world: Guess what - can't see anything wrong with that either. When it comes to the natural world, relying on evidence is a good thing.


Does it take any faith to see the usefulness of these goals?
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 16:36
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I am not even sure what you mean by "Bigfootism". Care to explain?


It's the belief that Bigfoot(s) exist.
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 16:31
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


Hey Mike, have you read your posts lately, each time somebody talks about religion, you reply with more anger.
 
You have insulted us, called us ignorants, delusional, etc, and you accuse us of fundamentalism?
 
Paradox.
 
Iván


I'm not the angry one here.Smile
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 16:26
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

2. The difference between atheists and tv-evangelists is that the latter are *asking* for money,

And Atheists not?
 


Of course there are Atheist non profit organizations, and they accept donations. I wouldn't mind tv-evangelists if all the money they ask for was actually spent on charitable purposes. Instead they spend it on megachurches, cars, big homes ... and male prostitutes (at least as far as Ted Haggard is/was concerned).
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 16:14
Dawkins does not speak for or represent all of the 1.1 billion nonreligious people in the world. Very few atheists support his views, proposals or methods. He makes a lot of noise and publicity, but he is in a minority. The vast majority of atheists, nontheists, postthiests, humanists, secularists and other irreligious people have no agenda or mission, they are not interested in religion unless it directly affects them. I count myself in this later group - except I'll sometimes defend "science" when it is under attack from people who use bad science to support their case.
What?
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 13:25
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Dawkins is after notoriety as much as religious people are. He writes books, sells a lot of them, he's after money just like the other ones are. That I'm closer to agreeing with him than with the religious tv-evangelists doesn't blind me from that fact. 

Now I'll have to be called an atheist-atheist, because I'm an atheist also from atheism. 


 
The incredible thing is that he talks against the tax exemption of the Churches, but he creates a non-profit organization with a percentage for charity, which of course grants his foundation almost the same benefits than the Churches.
 
Whoever says this foundation doesn't FORMALLY works as a Church of atheism, would have to check this
 
Quote US taxpayers. RDFRS is exempt from Federal income tax under section 501 (c) (3) of the Internal Revenue Code. Contributions are deductible under section 170 of the Code. We are also qualified to receive tax deductible bequests, devises, transfers or gifts under section 2055, 2106 or 2522 of the Code
.
 
And whoever says they don't evangelize, read this:
 
Quote RDFRS US | UK
MISSION: Support the scientific education, critical thinking and evidence-based understanding of the natural world in the quest to overcome religious fundamentalism, superstition, intolerance and human suffering.
 
 
They are spreading their ideas just as any other churxch, without the religious component of course
 
Iván
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 07 2010 at 13:27
            
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:48
Dawkins is after notoriety as much as religious people are. He writes books, sells a lot of them, he's after money just like the other ones are. That I'm closer to agreeing with him than with the religious tv-evangelists doesn't blind me from that fact. 

Now I'll have to be called an atheist-atheist, because I'm an atheist also from atheism. 
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:43
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by DT-PT DT-PT wrote:

Slightly off topic, but this is the only forum I know of where double posts aren't frowned upon. LOL
Life's too short to be that anal and I have better things to do.
 
Apparently on 4chan Admins & Mods can permaban people on a whim for no rhyme or reason... now that sounds like fun.

Except that a permaban from 4chan would be a blessing.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:39
Originally posted by DT-PT DT-PT wrote:

Slightly off topic, but this is the only forum I know of where double posts aren't frowned upon. LOL
Life's too short to be that anal and I have better things to do.
 
Apparently on 4chan Admins & Mods can permaban people on a whim for no rhyme or reason... now that sounds like fun.
What?
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Points: 4395 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:14
Slightly off topic, but this is the only forum I know of where double posts aren't frowned upon. LOL
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 11:44
Originally posted by UndercoverBoy UndercoverBoy wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

By the way, all of you should be grateful to the admins and M@X that you're allowed to have these kinds of discussions.  I'm a member of some other sites (non-music) and they don't tolerate these kinds of threads in the slightest.  If you even mention stuff like this they will delete your posts.  I've had posts deleted just for being off-topic!
Absolutely. I've been on forums where if you even mention the word 'Israel' in any context, you're told that your posts are being monitored. By and large these discussions are good natured, intelligent and balanced. These topics can be very emotive.

No kidding.  There was a time that Gamespot banned all religious discussion because the debates became so heated (not that it stopped completely.)  I don't know if it is still in place, because I stopped going a long time ago.  That being said, the conversations on video game forums aren't much more evolved than the ones in JJ's comics.



I can imagine..

The folk around here mostly know how to debate such things, without seriously upsetting their fellow proggers.

Mmm..maybe prog rock is evidence of a God! Lets face it Jesus wouldn't have looked out of place in Pink Floyd..
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 11:41
Originally posted by DT-PT DT-PT wrote:

I think it's absurd to use the "you can't prove it" argument to anybody anywhere. Neither side can nor ever will be able to prove a single one of their arguments. Unless we all get spaceships ready to go to heaven or dig underground in search of hell or something.


Yes, this may satisfy those who take Heaven and Hell in a literal sense. I think those who believe that God is an invisible giant who lives in the sky, and that Hell is a place beneath the Earths crust where bad people go, are going to be dissapointed.

That said, there MAY come a time where one side will be vindicated through science, one way or another. Which side that is, remains to be seen.
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