Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - thoughts on the Holocaust
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closedthoughts on the Holocaust

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 21>
Author
Message
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 13:35
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Bach, Handel and Scarlatti were all born the same year. !685 I think. And two of them were German, so that relates to the Holocaust.

And two of them ended up pretty blind
And one of them became English at later age
An all three of them eventually used melodies written by somebody else
And all of them had to go to the bathroom sometimes

Damn nazis all these three... 


Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 13:37
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Something about the Holocaust just rubs me the wrong way.

Back to Top
Icarium View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34090
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 13:42
have anyone seen the movie Der Untergang
Back to Top
toroddfuglesteg View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
Retired

Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 14:26

There is a new movie being filmed now by a famous German filmmaker about Holocaust which is promising to show the full horror of Holocaust, up close and in it's most horrific details.

An excellent idea in my view. Show Holocaust as it was. But due to the promised graphic details, I don't think I can stomach (literary speaking) that movie. I rather send a check for five cinema tickets and not show up. But the movie has my full support.  

 

Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:01
Some interesting facts about the Nuremburg trials
 

The International Military Tribunal was opened on October 18, 1945, in the Palace of Justice in Nuremberg.[9] The first session was presided over by the Soviet judge, Nikitchenko. The prosecution entered indictments against 24 major war criminals and six criminal organizations – the leadership of the Nazi party, the Schutzstaffel (SS) and Sicherheitsdienst (SD), the Gestapo, the Sturmabteilung (SA) and the "General Staff and High Command," comprising several categories of senior military officers.

The indictments were for:

  1. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of a crime against peace
  2. Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace
  3. War crimes
  4. Crimes against humanity

The 24 accused were, with respect to each charge, either indicted but acquitted (I), indicted and found guilty (G), or not charged (O),

 
Is there a documentary about this that can be recommended?
 
 
Back to Top
Textbook View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:31
I get the feeling the initial poster is going to mark our responses.
Back to Top
stonebeard View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:52
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Something about the Holocaust just rubs me the wrong way.



Well, how about that!

Back to Top
Any Colour You Like View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12294
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:05
I study the Holocaust and Genocide at University

I could post my latest essay here about Jews, Rebellion and Collective Guilt, but I fear that may be a little too far. It's such a deep (as in contextually complex) event that a thread like this will only hope to scratch the surface. Oh, and before anyone goes on a tangent about Schindler's List or the crap that was The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, I will be judging you.

Stern Smile Wink
Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:11
Originally posted by Any Colour You Like Any Colour You Like wrote:

I study the Holocaust and Genocide at University

I could post my latest essay here about Jews, Rebellion and Collective Guilt, but I fear that may be a little too far. It's such a deep (as in contextually complex) event that a thread like this will only hope to scratch the surface. Oh, and before anyone goes on a tangent about Schindler's List or the crap that was The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, I will be judging you.

Stern Smile Wink
Post the essay - I can gain more from that than most of the responses this thread has generated.
 
 
I think The Pianist was better than Schindlers List as it it didnt preach antisemitic views as much and simply told a moving story of hope within the hopeless situation that was occurring.
 
 
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:13
Jews control the media?

But seriously, let's not forget Rwanda or Cambodia either.


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 07 2010 at 17:16
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:14
Originally posted by Any Colour You Like Any Colour You Like wrote:

I study the Holocaust and Genocide at University

I could post my latest essay here about Jews, Rebellion and Collective Guilt, but I fear that may be a little too far. It's such a deep (as in contextually complex) event that a thread like this will only hope to scratch the surface. Oh, and before anyone goes on a tangent about Schindler's List or the crap that was The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, I will be judging you.

Stern Smile Wink

Why are those two movies crap? As movies, they're very good. As reflections on the holocaust, that might be what you're talking about. Could you explain? 
Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:15
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Jews control the media?

But seriously, let's not forget Cambodia either.

Yes. It would be great if all genocides would get coverage, lest we forget ANY of them... 
Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:15
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

I get the feeling the initial poster is going to mark our responses.
No I have enough marking to do but heres the latest assignment the students have to do... FYI
 
 

Art and Poetry of the Holocaust

Task 1

Look up the site below and answer the questions.

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/arts/ARTPROP.HTM

1. What symbols (if any) are used in the posters?

2. Are the messages in the posters primarily visual, verbal, or both?

3. Who do you think is the intended audience for the posters?

4. Consider the tabloid by Julius Streicher, "Der Stümer," in which a medieval

illustration depicts ritualistic murder of children, a medieval antisemitic myth.

What irony can you identify?

5. What does the Nazi Government hope the audience will do?

6. Consider the antisemitic cartoon by Seppla (Josef Plank) - an octopus with a

Star of David over its head has its tentacles encompassing the globe. Compare

this imagery with the song - "He's Got the Whole World in His Hands." Is

there a correlation?

7. The most effective posters use symbols that are unusual, simple, and direct. Are

these effective posters?

Task 2

Look up the site of some of David Olere’s drawings and answer the questions on the

slideshow.

http://www.slideshare.net/rgair/david-olere-art-analysis-lesson

Task 3

Look at the following site and answer the questions below.

http://www.kimel.net/poetry.html

1. What messages are found in ‘We will Never Forget – Auschwitz’?

2. What does Alexander Kimel want his readers to remember in ‘I Cannot

Forget’? Why?

3. What may account for Kimel’s faith as expressed in ‘The Creed of the

Holocaust Survivor’? What do you think of this poem?

4. What is Korczak’s message? How is this different from Roman’s thoughts?

5. What makes poetry effective as a memorial to the Holocaust? See especially

‘Monument at Moriah’,‘The Archivist’ and ‘Homeland’?

6. Write the story of ‘Behind the Monastery’ in prose. What makes the poem

effective?

7. How is poetry effective in conveying the experiences of those that have

suffered through the Holocaust?

Task 4

Which genre studied in English have you found most effective in portraying the

Holocaust?

 

 
 
 
Back to Top
Any Colour You Like View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12294
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:16
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Originally posted by Any Colour You Like Any Colour You Like wrote:

I study the Holocaust and Genocide at University

I could post my latest essay here about Jews, Rebellion and Collective Guilt, but I fear that may be a little too far. It's such a deep (as in contextually complex) event that a thread like this will only hope to scratch the surface. Oh, and before anyone goes on a tangent about Schindler's List or the crap that was The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, I will be judging you.

Stern Smile Wink
Post the essay - I can gain more from that than most of the responses this thread has generated.
 
 
I think The Pianist was better than Schindlers List as it it didnt preach antisemitic views as much and simply told a moving story of hope within the hopeless situation that was occurring.
 


I will email you the essay if you want. I don't want to post it here because a) it's huge and b) it will be formatted all wrong.

The Pianist was good, but there is no way that Schindler's List preaches anti-semitic views, in fact it does quite the opposite.
Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:17
While I am in teacher mode - heres the Movie questions regarding the films we watched...
 
 
answer them if you dare..........
 
 

Schindler’s List

Questions

In answering these questions, please keep in mind that you eventually need to be

completing two major tasks.

1. What was particularly memorable about this film? What questions did the film

raise but did not answer? Explain at least one way that the film relates to the

world today.

2. Discuss your observations in a group. Was everyone impacted by the same

scenes? The same characters? How do you account for differences?

3. Filmmakers use color, motion, and sound to draw attention to an event or a

character. What scenes in Schindler’s List are in color? Why do you think

Spielberg chose to shoot the film mostly in black and white?

4. How was music used in the scenes you recall most vividly? What ideas or

events did the music underscore?

5. In making Schindler’s List, Spielberg says he tried to be “more of a reporter

than a passionate, involved filmmaker—because I wanted to communicate

information more than I needed to proselytize and convert. The information is

so compelling because it wasn’t written by Hollywood authors. It comes out of

the human experience…[but] out of history.” That vision influenced many of

his decisions as the film’s director. Identify and describe 3 scenes that reflect

Spielberg’s desire to place the viewer “inside the experiences of Holocaust

survivors and actual victims as close as a movie can.”

<http://www.newpaltz.k12.ny.us/local/high_school/Teachers/lstjohn/English%209/schindler.h

tm>. (August 6, 2010)

6. Motifs are recurring structures or ideas that help develop a text’s main themes.

In Schindler’s List three major motifs are lists, trains and death. Discuss how

these are used.

7. Symbols represent abstract ideas or concepts. These may be objects,

characters or colours. Discuss the effectiveness of the following: the girl in the

red coat, Jewish headstones, piles of Jewish items, the gates of Auschwitz, the

ring given to Schindler.

8. Discuss the use of juxtaposition in the film. Give examples.

9. Write a collection of dot-pointed notes covering the following themes:

• the triumph of the human spirit

• the difference one person can make

• the problem of indifference

10. Discuss the following quotations:

(i) Poldek Pfefferberg: It will cost you a lot. Good shirts like this cost money.

1.

(ii) Stern: The Jews themselves receive nothing. Poles you pay wages.

Generally they get a little more…

(iii) Goeth: Is this the face of a rat? Are these the eyes of a rat? ‘Hath not a

Jew eyes?’ I feel for you Helen. No, I don’t think so…. You nearly talked me

into it didn’t you?

(iv) Goeth: Go on, I pardon you.

(v) German Officer: What is it? Is it Bach?

Soldier: No, Mozart.

(vi) Stern: The list is an absolute good. The list is life.

(vii) Hoss: I have a shipment coming in tomorrow. I’ll cut you three hundred

units from it. New ones….

Schindler: Yes. I understand. I want these.

Hoss: You shouldn’t get stuck on names. That’s right. It creates a lot of

paperwork.

(viii) Stern: Whoever saves one life saves the world entire.

What other quotes do you think are important?

2.

The Pianist

Questions

In answering these questions, please keep in mind that you eventually need to be

completing two major tasks.

1. Make a list of what you know about the Holocaust?

2. Write a journal reflection describing your immediate reaction to this film

before discussing it with anyone. What rating would you give the film?

3. Write a summary of the plot of this film. Describe what happened. What

were the main events in the story. Where did the suspense start? What was

the climax? What was the resolution? (It may help to draw a ‘plot diagram”.

4. Choose 3 scenes from the film as a group. Discuss these in detail (make

notes) and explain your reaction to these scenes. Choose the most impacting

scene to present a short speech (2-3 minutes) to the rest of the class.

5. How did the film begin? What were the visuals during the titles? Describe

the opening scenes and discuss why you think the film began in this manner.

What conflict is developing?

6. What was the music like in the beginning? Was it background or foreground?

Was it subtle or did it stand out? How important is the music? Why? How is

music used throughout the film? What other sounds are important?

7. How does the plot develop? What complications occur?

8. What visual images are you left with by the end of the film? How effective

are these?

9. What was the climax of the film?

10. What conflict was resolved? Who got what? Who won at the end of the film?

Who lost?

11. ‘That he survived was not a victory when all whom he loved died.’ Respond

to this quote. Do you agree/disagree?

12. Why do you think Wilm Hosenfeld did what he did? Why didn’t he turn the

pianist in?

13. Polanski is himself a survivor of the Holocaust – saved at one point when his

father pushed him through the barbed wire of a concentration camp. What

effect do you think this had on his directing?

14. Polanski has recently been in the press again. This related to his having

jumped bail in the USA and living in France to avoid trial for having sex with

a thirteen-year-old girl. Does this fact and other information in the press have

any influence on your appreciation of this film?

15. Polanski says he was moved by the book on which the film is based. He said,

‘Szpilman was objective, not sentimental. He showed Poles who were good

and those who were wicked, Jews good and wicked, Germans good and

wicked.’ What effect does this have on the film?

16. Discuss the following quotes from the film:

(i) Szpilman: It’s an official decree, no Jews allowed in the parks.

Dorota: What, are you joking?

Szpilman: No, I’m not. I would suggest we sit down on a bench, but that’s

also an official decree, no Jews allowed on benches.

Dorota: This is absurd.

Szpilman: So, we should just stand here and talk. I don’t think we’re not

allowed to do that.

(ii) Szpilman: [discussing the star of David] I won't wear it.

Regina: *I* won't wear it. I'm not going to be branded.

(iii) Szpilman: Ah, more Jewish police. You mean you want me to beat up

Jews and catch the Gestapo spirit? I see.

(iv) Father: Well, to tell you the truth, I thought it would be worse

(v) Wailing Woman: Why did I do it? Why did I do it? Why did I do it?

Halina: She's getting on my nerves. What did she do, for God's sake?

Father: She smothered her baby.

(vi) Szpilman: [taking off his watch] Here, sell this. Food is more important

than time.

(vii) Szpilman: I don’t know how to thank you.

Captain Hosenfeld: Thank God, not me. He wants us to survive. Well, that’s

what we have to believe.

What other quotes do you think are particularly important

Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:23
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Jews control the media?

But seriously, let's not forget Cambodia either.

Yes. It would be great if all genocides would get coverage, lest we forget ANY of them... 

If you think about it too much you can start to lose faith in humanity.  I do hope that humanity isn't ultimately about slaughtering one another.


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 07 2010 at 17:25
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:25
Spielberg is a jew, yet you think he didn't preach anti-semitism? 

I honestly think Schindler's List paints an image of hope and it does attack anti-semitism... Or at least portrays what happened in an efficient way. 

By the way, SHOULD a movie be anti-anti-semitic? Should it be so politically evident? 
Back to Top
Any Colour You Like View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12294
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:25
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Any Colour You Like Any Colour You Like wrote:

I study the Holocaust and Genocide at University

I could post my latest essay here about Jews, Rebellion and Collective Guilt, but I fear that may be a little too far. It's such a deep (as in contextually complex) event that a thread like this will only hope to scratch the surface. Oh, and before anyone goes on a tangent about Schindler's List or the crap that was The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, I will be judging you.

Stern Smile Wink

Why are those two movies crap? As movies, they're very good. As reflections on the holocaust, that might be what you're talking about. Could you explain? 


Ok, I'll explain.

1. Schindler's List isn't crap, it's just not a good arbiter of historical events beyond the specific context of the Schindler Jews. Oskar Schindler was a real person, the event portrayed in the film happened in much the same way, but it was very much the exception to the rule in the Cracow, Lodz, Warsaw and Lublin ghettos.

2. The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas is pure fiction. The novel was better in the sense that the conclusion was left up to the imagination, and not made emotionally manipulative. Firstly, in concentration camps, the youngest children were often killed first because they couldn't do the labour tasks required of them. Some were needed to do tasks requiring a child's small hand. But this was rare, and especially not at a death camp. The film confuses the two types of camps. Also, while it was not unheard of for men and children to be gassed together, this was highly uncommon. It's just a fictional tale.


Edited by Any Colour You Like - October 07 2010 at 17:26
Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:43
Ok but what makes the second one bad? That is a fictional tale? Well, it's a movie, based on historic events but it's not a documentary. 


Back to Top
CCVP View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:43
inb4 anyone defends the whole thing.

And it still plagues German people untill today. As a German you can't be flagwaving like the citizens of USA#1 do because u'll be arrested. There are some other ridiculous laws that are still valid today, but that is thefirst i could remember just now.

Besides, why is everyone always so concerned about Hitler when Stalin killed >4 million people in just one year. Around 3 million of them just in Ukraine. Nobody cares about Ukranians to this day.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 21>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.342 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.